1118: Son’s Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday

1118: Son's Safety Vexed by Schizoaffective Ex | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the sanitizing hand wipe handed to you as you take your seat in this first class. Cabin of Life Drama. Gabriel Mizrahi, by the way, I love how it's now our job to clean our seats on an airplane after you pay.

Like, what do you mean? What are you talking about?

[00:00:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Those things are just for your hands, aren't they?

[00:00:23] Jordan Harbinger: No. Uh, no. I've never, first of all, I, I don't think so. I've never seen anyone not use it for the seat and tray table. I assume the reason it's massive and not a little one is because they want you to clean the seed, like Oh.

I just paid six grand for this flight, but by all means put me to work while I'm here. I got nothing else to do.

[00:00:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think those are for your hands, but people are just taking it upon themselves to sanitize the general area. You may be right, but let me ask you this. You just have OCD.

[00:00:47] Jordan Harbinger: If you had a sandwich in your hand, would you put it on a bare naked tray table or would you wanna sanitize that sucker first or put some other surface between the trade table and your food?

[00:00:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm not arguing.

[00:00:55] Jordan Harbinger: I'm just saying

[00:00:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: the airline is trying to give you, it's

[00:00:58] Jordan Harbinger: for your hands. All right? I just want you to know that. Now I'm questioning my myself here. If you're a flight attendant, are those really just for your hands or are you supposed to clean your seat? Tell me the truth. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from organized crime figures to war correspondence astronauts, to national security advisors and tech luminaries. This week we had an applebaum on authoritarian regimes, why and how they cooperate with one another and make the world a worse place, or at least a more dangerous one.

We also did a skeptical Sunday, last Sunday on fake foods. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and go on ridiculous side rants about the states of modern commercial air travel. Alright, let's get to it today. As always, we've got some fun ones and some crazy, of course ones.

So Gabe, what's the first thing? Outta the mailbag.

[00:01:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a single father of a special needs child, and for the past five years I've been trapped in Norway's legal system, navigating the aftermath of a relationship with a partner who has a violent schizoaffective disorder. My son was born with significant congenital challenges that require constant care.

On top of this, he's endured severe trauma due to his mother's extreme behavior, including physical violence. Despite restraining orders against both my son and me, and a history of hospitalizations with severe psychosis, the courts have repeatedly granted her visitation. Even though these visits consistently undo my son's progress from previous trauma and cause severe regression, I was with my son's mother for 12 years.

Early on, I noticed signs of instability, unpredictable anger, irrational demands and cycles of dissatisfaction. She often claimed things would improve if we took the next step. Moving in together, buying a house, having a child, young and hopeful, I believed her and hoped to build a stable life for us.

Unfortunately, achieving any of these milestones only escalated her behavior. Gosh, that's unfortunate. After she became pregnant, she began threatening to harm the baby. If I didn't comply with her demands at the time, I naively chalked it up to hormones. But after our son was born, her anger, irrationality, and neglect turned into dangerous behavior, including leaving our infant unattended while she drank excessively.

At one point, she became so violent toward me, I almost lost my life. Wow, this is horrifying.

[00:03:32] Jordan Harbinger: This must have been a really dark time

[00:03:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: for you and your son. I'm so sorry. Can't even imagine. I tried to get her help through mental health services, but her illness often left her unable to follow through.

Eventually she was involuntarily hospitalized for psychosis when our son was two years old. I had tried leaving the relationship before, but was often manipulated into staying sometimes with threats of harm to me or our son. When she was finally out of the house, I realized that I could no longer protect my son if we stayed together with the support of her care team.

I eventually ended the relationship that unleashed a storm of threats and retaliation. She refused to share updates about our mental health, convinced others that I was the unhealthy one, and got them to file false reports about me to Child Protective Services, which triggered stressful investigations.

I was already overwhelmed caring for our son, and the extra burden became unbearable. The courts eventually awarded me primary custody, but she was granted 50% visitation. I begged the courts to consider her mental illness and history of instability. I. But in my jurisdiction, a mother's right to see her child often outweighs concerns for safety, so infuriating.

During her visitation periods, my son began to regress emotionally and physically. He returned from visits with severe anxiety, nightmares, and behavioral issues. I later learned from her family that she had been violent toward him during these visits and worse. One particularly traumatic incident occurred when she left our son alone in a freezing apartment.

During a psychotic episode, he was terrified and screaming for help. A stranger eventually hurt his cries and found him in her apartment. The psychological damage from incidents like this is heartbreaking. My son now requires constant attention on top of his congenital challenges, it's like taking two steps forward only to be dragged 10 steps back.

Every time she comes back into his life,

[00:05:29] Jordan Harbinger: oh, that is, I'm just gobsmacked. And it's shocking how anyone could do this to their own child, how the system could allow it to happen. Unforgivable.

[00:05:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Her escalating psychosis eventually led to another involuntary hospitalization, and visits were temporarily suspended.

Without contact with his mother, my son began to improve. His anxiety lessened and his aggression started to subside. But after eight months in the hospital, she was released and immediately petitioned for custody again claiming she was stable. This pattern has repeated several times. Each time she convinces a new psychiatrist to vouch for her stability, and the courts once again push for visitation.

No matter how much harm she causes or how desperately I beg for protection, the system prioritizes her above all else. My son and I have had restraining orders against her due to her threatening behavior and death threats, but these seem to have little impact on the court's decisions. I receive no child support from her and can barely keep up with the expenses of his care and our adapted home.

To make matters worse, she gets free legal help and can drag me into court as often as she wants draining my resources. The legal system has yet again awarded her visitation despite a mountain of evidence of her damaging and dangerous behavior. Over the past five years, I've had only two days with a babysitter.

Wow. I'm emotionally, physically, and financially exhausted.

[00:06:51] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my. I feel for you, man. I'm absolutely livid over here. This is such an abuse of the system. It's crazy that she gets free legal help to see her kid. I get that. But then who's advocating for the child? Oh, well that comes out of pocket for you, pal.

What? That makes no sense to me. This makes no

[00:07:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: sense. This time I plan to appeal to a higher court and refuse to comply with the current order, but this could result in significant penalties and me being labeled again as a father trying to deny a mother visitation. How can I protect my son, fight an endless legal battle, and keep myself afloat financially and emotionally?

Other strategies I haven't considered? Is there a way to break out of this vicious cycle signed running out of time to make the courts find that my ex really is out of her mind?

[00:07:39] Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy, what a nightmare This is what an absolutely insane custody story. Truly. Next level stuff, man. God, the things you've been through here, it's insane.

Literally, I suppose I am so sorry that you and your son have been through all this. I can't even imagine how you guys must feel the damage your ex has caused. I can hear your pain, your anger, your exhaustion in your letter, and I, I really do feel for you. I know I'm saying that a few times here, broken record, but my heart also breaks for your son.

He's experienced this abuse from his mother in addition to being a very disturbing and chaotic parent, and that's on top of his special needs. This poor kid, man, I can't even imagine what he must be going through. There's just no words. I'm scratching my head as to why the courts in your country would allow your ex to have contact with your son after her track record and all this evidence and the threats to hurt and kill him.

[00:08:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: So crazy. I don't understand. Unconscionable,

[00:08:31] Jordan Harbinger: unconscionable. I thought our courts were flawed. This sounds like a total circus and I'm so deeply sorry that you've been failed by your system. It's crazy.

[00:08:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I suddenly have a lot of questions for Norway. No kidding.

[00:08:44] Jordan Harbinger: Seriously, what are they thinking? Or are they just following the law and the laws?

Way too forgiving of mentally ill parents, I

[00:08:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: don't

[00:08:50] Jordan Harbinger: know. Or overly accommodating to mothers, which wouldn't be a sup. I guess a huge surprise. It's like that in a lot of places. This is really just madness. These judges are culpable in the kids' abuse. That's my opinion. So we wanted to share your story with an an actual expert.

So we reached out to attorney and friend of the show, Corbin Payne. Corbin was as shocked by your story as we were. He said that this kind of thing could happen in the us. He's seen some things obviously, but while our country also highly prioritizes parental rights, we also have it clearly established that these rights can be overridden by safety concerns for the child.

Courts are supposed to document these things, make official legal findings. If the court finds multiple instances of a parent abusing and or subjecting their children to dependency and neglect, the courts are supposed to take that into consideration. It doesn't always happen that way. Of course, courts aren't the best always at listening to the non-problem parent or the evidence, but Corbin said it happens a lot.

Now, an important caveat here. Corbin knows nothing about Norwegian law, but he did offer a few ideas from our legal system that might give you some new inspiration. It goes without saying. These absolutely 100% need to be run by a real Norwegian lawyer or legal expert before attempting, you know the spiel.

Corbin's a lawyer, not your lawyer. You have to do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And anything. Corbin Shares is general and informational in nature. It is not legal advice. So Corbin's first idea, he would explore whether Norwegian law allows for supervised visitation.

That means the court appoints a supervisor and that person would have the legal obligation to monitor the visits and act if things get outta hand. They'd also have the authority to remove your son from his mother's care if things get dangerous. In certain instances, a supervisor terminating a visit can also trigger a reset to lower levels of visitation.

The supervisor in our country, and this is a little weird, but it could be a friend, it could be a family member, it could also be a professional paid to supervise. It wouldn't surprise me in Norway if you have a service that does this. Second Corbin would see if it's possible to impose conditions on any visitation.

He shared a story from his own experience with us. Sometime back, Corbin worked on a case where a dad got custody of his kids from their mother after she had a mental health episode. She was apparently a good mother when she was stable, but she absolutely lost it and the team was able to determine that she'd had a breakdown in her teens and again in her late twenties.

And both times it took her about eight months to get back on her feet once she started therapy and got on her meds. So they started off with supervised visitation and escalated slowly over time to give her more visits with the kids as she proved herself responsible. They also had some conditions that she meet weekly with her therapist, take her medications, stuff like that if she missed any of these conditions.

Then they went back to square one automatically and started all over again. Corbin said they had a bumpy start with a couple of resets early on, but she had her kids back about 13 months later and she seems to be doing well. So Corbin's not suggesting that you can magically cure your ex by putting conditions around therapy and and meds.

Your ex is clearly a very complex and tragic case. He did wonder if the courts would be willing to order her to take some of these steps over, say a six month period and send her back to square one if she fails. That might be one way to protect your son in the short term and also keep responsible adults looking over her shoulder.

I mean, dude, if she spends the next two or three years going back in front of the same judge every few months because she can't get her crap together, who knows? That might frustrate the judge enough to do something more permanent. Corbin also wanted to know, have you engaged an expert of your own who can come and give an opinion that your ex is gonna keep relapsing no matter what?

If she's bringing an expert to are willing to say, oh, she's cured, she's fine. Then it seems to me you need to have an expert saying, Hey, that's not the case, and I know that's gonna be an expense, but it might not be as expensive as you think. Or who knows, maybe your lawyer can pull a favor or get the state to request a new evaluation from a different psychiatrist who can offer a more objective opinion or something like that.

I mean, how many strikes do you get over there for God's sake?

[00:12:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Seems like this has been going on forever. I don't know. Yeah, this is beyond the pale. I really hope one of those things works. Those are your main legal options. But as is this custom, Corbin also wanted to share a few ideas about, you know, how to cope with the situation, how to work through it on a more personal level.

So the first, and I kind of love this one, is to consider using your story to push for changes if possible in the Norwegian legal system. It sounds to me like the laws around parental rights and custody need to be, if not reformed, then seriously looked at in your country, or at least that there's a really important conversation to be had here.

You have seen this firsthand. So you could lobby the government perhaps somehow, maybe ask for meetings with representatives to consider changing the law. You could, I don't know, write an op-ed about your experience or share your story in the media at at least to just get the ball rolling, although you really want to clear that with a lawyer first before you start sharing intimate details from your custody battle with your ex.

I'm not sure how it works over there. Corbin did say that this is not necessarily the easier option, but it is an option and it could be a way for you to turn the pain that you are feeling into potentially tangible benefits for families all over your country. Just by highlighting the ways that the system can really fail parents and children like yours,

[00:14:05] Jordan Harbinger: Corbin's only caveat here was be careful 'cause there might be laws in place regarding confidentiality in juvenile cases, there might also be rules about not publicly criticizing a co-parent.

That's something your lawyer can advise on.

[00:14:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Corbin's other idea, much closer to home, is to consider looking into support groups and other resources for parents like you who have ex-partners who are abusive, who are dangerous. Corbin Unhesitatingly told us that you are not alone in struggling with this kind of scenario, and there are probably tons of groups out there with resources, advice, just general support.

But again, be careful, be discerning when you choose, you know whom to open up to. For example, Corbin reminded us that here in the States there's this movement called the Father's Rights Movement, which I've read a little bit about, but I didn't really know all that much about. And basically this group generally fights for dads to have equal custody rights to mothers.

Kind of going back to Jordan's point about courts being biased in many places in favor of Mothers Corbin's feeling, is that we have changed enough culturally over the past couple generations here in America that the court's bias toward mothers has lessened considerably just by itself, and that the Father's Rights movement is honestly, in his opinion, extremely bitter and vitriolic.

So he would avoid any people or groups that seek to foster that kind of bitterness or encourage any sketchy behavior on your part, anything like that while you're going through this, but I'm pretty sure that most resources and communities out there are mostly gonna be helpful,

[00:15:35] Jordan Harbinger: agreed, but can confirm sometimes these organizations, Trojan Horse, in some really weird mindsets and beliefs into a philosophy that is otherwise attractive and helpful.

I don't wanna say, I don't wanna say like culty, but you can go in thinking like, oh, it's a support group. And then.dot three years later you're like, oh, all women. This men going their own way, right? You're wearing T-shirts that say that you're an alpha. It's just, you think I'm exaggerating or kidding here, but you can get led to some dark places and surround yourself with some negative people.

Carbon's, final thought for you. Every case is a marathon, and in his experience, a custody battle is an ultra marathon. You're exhausted. You're at the end of your rope. How could you not be? This is more than anyone should ever have to endure. Corbin said, this is entirely understandable. He also said that you will fail if you are not able to figure out how to endure the unendurable to continue in the face of ferocious opposition from your ex in the face of an unfeeling, uncaring legal system.

I know that sounds really scary, and that's part of the reason that Corbin is so passionate about recommending things like support groups and telling your story and using it to lobby for change. Because these initiatives, they really can empower you. They can give you a sense of meaning, purpose, community, and you need those things when you're in a soul sucking litigation and situation like this.

In our experience, they're one of the only things that can keep you healthy, keep you grounded, to keep you motivated when the whole system seems to conspire against you. Again, I'm so very sorry for the manipulation and the heartache that you've been through. I'm even sorry for your son, his health issues, the trauma he's endured and is enduring.

I'm even sorry for your. X to some degree because as we talked about last week with the psychotic neighbor, her reality must be a very painful and terrifying one. And honestly, I'm sorry for the whole country of Norway here because apparently its legal system is enabling some horrific abuse. Not that ours isn't, and this is just not okay.

It defies any sense of right or rung and frankly defies common sense. And it's really sad. So stay strong, brother. Keep fighting for your son. He needs you. And surround yourself with people who give you love, confidence, hope, energy, maybe some cash on the side. You deserve all of this. Keep trusting.

Something will shift here eventually. Sending you and your son the biggest of hugs. Good luck. Speaking of avoiding financial ruin, a word from the people who pay all of my bills. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Delete Me. You ever get one of those sketchy phone calls where they somehow know way too much about you?

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Please consider supporting those who make the show possible. Alright, back to feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

[00:20:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I wanna preface my email by saying that my following statements take nothing away from the fires. In la everyone deserves to have a home where they feel safe. Period. I'm from Chico in Northern California.

It's been triggering to hear all the attention the fires in LA are getting when we've had recent fires more deadly and larger in size. Very recently, take your pick the campfire over 153,000 acres. The Dixie fire, 963,000 acres. The park fire almost 430,000 acres. I know it's not a contest, but had a celebrity lived here who could TikTok their lost home and get the visibility for it, we would be on people's radars.

But the fact is the people who comprise our communities, mostly low and middle income folk, broader society, has forgotten during the campfire. In 2019, for example, on my very short street, two families are still living out of RVs because they lost everything and have no way to financially redeem themselves.

It continues to hit home because two more family members of mine lost their homes in the park fire months ago. I listened to your 25 minute intro the other week, and the Los Angeles fires were compared to September 11th. I suppose it hits me because I'm waiting for someone to say, damn, this has been nor Cal's story for the past few years.

We should put the spotlight on them, but it doesn't happen. All of this to say it's shitty all around. I thought something like this would bring the state together and maybe it has our humble, still very much recovering community has worked to send resources to those in la. We are a resilient community and I think the gesture speaks to our hearts to, despite humble beginnings, I appreciate you reading this.

Grief deserves a witness signed, still smoldering from these invisible fires.

[00:22:19] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. All right. Well first of all, I'm so very sorry that you and your community have been through so many devastating fires the past few years. I really am. Whether it's fair or not, seeing what's happened in la, just 'cause it's closer to me, I have a lot more personal friends there, connections to it.

It really makes those numbers you've shared very real and very vivid. Not to mention the loss of life. These disasters are just awful. And I'm very sorry to hear that they've decimated people financially for so long. That is also deeply tragic and very much a symptom of so many things wrong with our system.

And I thank you for writing in and sharing your story because it really does help open up our worldview. It's really easy to just focus on what's happening in our own backyards and ignore all the tragedies around the world or even around the state. I also think that's human nature to some degree, and part of living in this modern world where there are so many terrible things happening at any given moment.

So it's not necessarily that no one cares, it's just hard sometimes to make room for all of it. So look, I take your point. Absolutely. It looks like Gabe does. He's nodding along right now. LA is obviously not the only city in California to be hit by devastating wildfires to say nothing of all the natural disasters that affect this country every year, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes.

You're right. LA is getting a lot more attention simply because it's la because a lot of people who lived in the Palisades, in Malibu are high profile. They're wealthy because they're movie stars, they're influencers. The property was really expensive, whatever it is, and in a way that's unfair and ridiculous.

I agree. But sadly, that's the way our media ecosystem works. These two stories you shared about the families on your block, that is heartbreaking. I can't imagine growing up in an rv. There are no words. I really do hope they manage to get back on their feet about the nine 11 comment. I guess I find myself wanting to clarify, although I think I said this on the episode, I was not comparing the two tragedies directly.

I I'm not sure you can. I was just commenting on how these events have a way of softening people and bringing out the best in them. That's all. So if you heard that as LA just had, its nine 11, what the hell have we been going through in NorCal? That's not at all what we were talking about. That's not what we meant at all.

I. Again, I'm grateful that you're pointing it out because it can be easy to overlook and it's not right that fires that are much bigger and more frequent get less attention or less compassion or fewer government resources, and I would hope that from now on, you guys don't feel forgotten or ignored when you need help.

The way LA needs help right now.

[00:24:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I agree with all of that, and I'm with you. I take your point. It's funny, just about half an hour before we started recording today, there's this news that a huge wildfire is broken out. It's a new one. Static, which yeah, is, yeah, I think it's like an hour northeast of Los Angeles, I believe.

In the past I would see that and feel really terrible and probably spend a few minutes looking at some photos and just thinking about the people. But because of this letter, it's making me really empathize with them in a new way. So I'm also glad that she wrote in. I was getting at something similar on that episode, the one we did a few weeks ago when I said that I've been fortunate to not lose something to a disaster like this and that these fires are making me sit up and pay attention in a new way.

So recognizing what you've been through here, being supportive when this stuff happens to other communities, I consider this segment part of that. But also what's interesting to me about your letter is that you're really talking about which stories we pay attention to and why and how. And yeah, I agree.

It is myopic and maybe unfair to not spend time acknowledging people like you and your neighbors when you're suffering by that logic though, it's just as myopic and unfair to not spend time acknowledging people in Florida when they have a category five hurricane or those people in Spain last year when floods destroyed Valencia and killed people, or God, I mean, the list goes on and on.

They're like hurricanes in Nepal and Chile and Japan. You know, dude, last year I. 37 million acres of the Amazon burned. So how we're supposed to just do anything, go to work and just go on with our lives when something like that is happening is just beyond me to say nothing of the horrors of the various wars taking place all around the world right now.

There's just so much pain, you know? So all of these tragedies are devastating. They all deserve our attention. They all deserve our love. So I say this, not to argue with your point, because it's a fair one, but I think we also have to recognize how hard it is to bear witness, as you say, to the grief of the entire world.

Not just because we rely on the media to show us certain things, which you're making a good point about how does certain information reach us? What do we pay attention to? But also because it can just be very overwhelming, very hard to identify with every single tragedy. And which ones take priority? I'm not sure the answer to that, especially when they're happening someplace that in many cases is far away.

[00:27:01] Jordan Harbinger: I totally agree and, and look, I also wanna be more thoughtful about what other people are going through too. Of course. But I'm also not mad that people in Valencia or the Amazon aren't stopping what they're doing and writing us letters and donating money when we have a disaster. I get that. We live in very different places, very different realities.

[00:27:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. To be fair, a friend here would probably say, okay, but I'm talking about California. Like we all live in California, so this is our tragedy and it would be nice if you guys cared about us as much as we care about you. And I, I get that. Yeah, I hear

[00:27:27] Jordan Harbinger: that. I hear that too. She's also pointing out something sad and uncomfortable about the way power works in these tragedies.

And honestly, I don't know what to say about that. It is a little messed up, but it's also just how the world works right now. I'm not saying I like it, I'm not endorsing it, but we have to accept that how people respond to events like this, the mental and cultural real estate they take up. Unfortunately, they do depend on money and influence and that, yeah, that sucks.

That's unfair at some level. But then it's also somewhat understandable that the city that produces most of the movies in the world and has a bunch of powerful people living in it and is a huge contributor to what, like the fifth largest economy in the world or whatever California is, that that city would get more attention globally.

And if what bothers you the most is just that, the attention, the feeling of being remembered, which is important, then that might always be the case. But I would hope that it doesn't stop the state from taking care of areas like yours. And I would hope that there are programs to help people like the neighbors you mentioned, because those stories truly break my heart.

But I think the answers to that ultimately are at the voting booth and in the way that we live our individual lives in the aftermath of a tragedy like this. That's a, this is a heavy letter. Interesting letter. Very eye-opening. Thank you for writing in. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise.

Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your elderly parents are living next to an aggressive psychotic person and the state won't intervene.

Whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. I wanna mention our newsletter. Wee bit wiser every Wednesday. Wisdom from the thousand plus episodes very practical. You can sign up at Jordan harbinger.com/news.

It's a good companion to the show if you wanna put this stuff into action. Alright, what's next?

[00:29:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys. I'm currently working as a student assistant at the law faculty of my university with two other colleagues. I manage a long-term project, which is our sole responsibility. We have a lot of freedom and the work is enjoyable for the most part.

The problem is one of our superiors, professor X, don't make an X-Men joke. Don't do it. Although we're not directly his student assistants, we function more like an outsourced unit of the institute. We are officially under his project management and most of our instructions come from his research assistants.

We do our best to avoid Professor X, but during faculty events, we're invited along, which means we inevitably have to interact with him. At a recent legal fair, he behaved incredibly disrespectfully. He instructed one of the student assistants to carry his coat and bag everywhere like a servant. Oh man.

Wow. That's some 19th century shirt shirt right there. That's like

[00:30:06] Jordan Harbinger: valet. Totally. I don't even know what a valet does other than that. That's ridiculous though. That's what they do. Yeah.

[00:30:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Among other things. Yeah. Then after delivering a presentation, he asked us student assistance for feedback, specifically whether we had understood his talk at all.

Mm. When I began to respond, he abruptly turned away mid-sentence and started talking to someone else. I was left standing there shocked and speechless, unable to finish my thought. That

[00:30:33] Jordan Harbinger: is so weird. Cool manners, bro. What a weird situation that is.

[00:30:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: What a

[00:30:38] Jordan Harbinger: what? This guy is

[00:30:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: a

[00:30:40] Jordan Harbinger: turd.

[00:30:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: In group settings, he often picks on the weakest link, typically a student assistant and makes random, unrelated remarks.

If you ask for clarification, he stares past you, dismissively making you feel foolish. Even basic gestures like greeting him in the hallway are ignored, which only adds to my frustration. The way he wields his power through gestures and expressions is difficult to handle. His behavior is so bizarre and manipulative.

I've never encountered anything like it. I often don't know how to deal with him, especially since he's my superior and might even end up as an examiner in my studies. Oh, yeah, that's tricky. His research assistants often brush off his behavior with comments like, that's just how he is, or You have to learn how to deal with it.

He has his good moments too. It's clear he thrives in hierarchical settings and relishes his position. While he may be a brilliant legal scholar, he's a major disappointment as a person, egotistical, narcissistic, and neurotic.

[00:31:38] Jordan Harbinger: Well said. Not somebody I'd give any time or energy to, more than is absolutely necessary.

These people are just a black hole. This guy almost sounds like disabled. Socially.

[00:31:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: I feel like I have to submit to him to avoid conflict, but this submission comes at the cost of my authenticity. I'm tired of enduring his belittling remarks and disrespectful behavior. I wonder how I should handle someone so authoritarian and domineering.

It also sometimes feels like the faculty operates under aristocratic rules. Probably a lot of

[00:32:08] Jordan Harbinger: institutions do to some degree, right? Part of the function of any institution, companies, universities, anything. It always eventually becomes about preserving the power of the people at the top. It's just something our species

[00:32:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: does, unfortunately.

Is it even possible to push back against this guy respectfully? How can I preserve my dignity while standing up for my values? Or should I start looking for a new job signed roiling and recoiling? 'cause I'm toiling for a guy who's spoiling this job that I should be rejoicing in.

[00:32:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. These are great questions.

What a character. And I put that, that that's the most charitable ver Yeah. Yeah. He's an A-hole. Yeah. I'm exactly probably in a, I'm gonna have stress dreams and TMJ for the rest of my life, kind of character. So to state the obvious here, and as someone who's brushed up against his fair share of Professor X's, I'm sorry, you have to work with this guy.

You captured so vividly what it's like to have to interact with an a-hole like this. It's, it's not just weird and unpleasant, it's demoralizing, diminishing, hurtful. People like this have a way of making others feel small and unappreciated, and it just, it sucks.

[00:33:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: They also have a way of making you feel really awkward.

Yes. You know, she said she's shocked and speechless and she's unable to finish her thoughts sometimes because his behavior is so bizarre. She doesn't even know how to deal with him. I've had to work with a couple people like this. It's so weird. They make you feel like you are the weird one. Yes.

[00:33:29] Jordan Harbinger: I, I used to work with somebody.

You'd start talking and they would just start talking over you, not to talk over you louder. It was just like, as if you weren't saying anything. I eventually, after a while I was like, do they not notice? They just don't listen to anyone else. They're just waiting to talk. And if you happen to be talking during that time, he just expects you to stop talking.

He's not being louder, nothing. He's just expecting you to defer to him. And I'm like, I eventually started going, excuse me, I'm not done yet. And I would just, and he was like, Ugh. Like frazzled out. Oh. Can't believe anybody would ever say that to me. Wow.

[00:34:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That's a nice move though. I like that. Yeah.

[00:34:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

I didn't even do it rude. I was just like, I'm still talking and da da da da. I'm sure that the story is, can you believe that Jordan Guy, he would just talk and talk. Never let anybody else talk.

[00:34:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: I dunno. I kind of love that though. You're not like picking a fight. You're just saying, Hey, I'm still talking.

And then they're like, just

[00:34:15] Jordan Harbinger: flagging that you're interrupting me for the 500th time this week. That's all.

[00:34:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: No big deal. You know, it's funny, I just remembered in my second year of college, I did this kind of like mini study abroad program in Washington DC I went to UCLA, but they have a campus in DC and you go there for a quarter and you do an internship and you take a couple classes and.

The class that I signed up for was political writing, like political wordsmithing it was called, and my teacher, the professor was Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice's speech writer, if I recall. He was brilliant. He was like a total brain. He was a really good editor, really good writing teacher. He was really tough.

It's funny, at the be every week we had to do a new form of political writing. So one week we would have to do like an op-ed. Another week we'd have to write a thank you. He taught, he, this guy taught me how to write thank you letters. I still use his approach today. It's kind of brilliant. And his technique was, every week he would randomly select a student in the class.

He would take the thing that they had written, put it on one of those old school projectors and live, edit it in front of everybody, which was so vulnerable. It was so exposed, brutal. But it was kind of amazing. Like we all became much better writers. The reason I bring him up is one of his, one of his classic moves was he would never say the last thing in a conversation when you were talking to him.

So I would sometimes be chatting with him after class about something or whatever. When we got to the end of the conversation, I would say, okay, cool. Like, thanks so much. See you next week. And then he would just turn and walk away, like he would never say bye or goodnight. I'd be like, oh cool, thanks for explaining that.

I was just, you know, wondering what that thing was or whatever, dead stare. See you Thursday or whatever. He would just spin on his heels and walk away. One time we were talking and he got into the elevator while we were talking, which was already this weird power move. And then we were standing there as the doors were waiting to close, and then I finished, and the door, the doors just closed.

He didn't even say like, sorry, bye. It was just like this weird, very weird guy. Wow. I still don't know if he was manipulative, was he obsessed with power? And that was like his way of feeling important or looking back, it's possible that he was on the spectrum and he just didn't read situations very well, but.

I dunno. I suspect maybe the former. Anyway, he was Colin Powell and Condoleezza writes a speech writer, so he probably does understand power pretty well, but I just remember being left feeling the exact way that our friend here is describing.

[00:36:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's almost like one of those tricks you'd learn on a YouTube from charisma on command.

I know. It's so

[00:36:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: cheesy,

[00:36:38] Jordan Harbinger: right?

[00:36:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Don't say bye.

[00:36:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Don't ever say the last word. Let other people have the last word. I know it's counterintuitive guys. My friend Charlie runs that channel. Like I know it's counterintuitive guys, but trust me, let the other person have the last

[00:36:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: word and they'll be

[00:36:48] Jordan Harbinger: left reeling.

[00:36:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's like it definitely works on you when you're 19 and you don't know how to handle people. If people did that to me today, I would just laugh and be like, what? Weird. It's not how you treat people.

[00:36:57] Jordan Harbinger: No Shade to Charlie. Shout out to Chrisman and command YouTube channel. Anyway. This guy, what a character.

I'm with you. I just can't, with people like this, like, okay, you're a little prickly. You're not touchy feely, you're not that warm. You're a tough customer. Fine. I can deal with that. Especially if you're really good at what you do and it's all about the work. If you're actively looking for opportunities to dominate people and disrespect them and throw them off balance just because it's fun or it makes you feel good about yourself, screw you.

Life's way too short to deal with people like this. So is it possible to push back against this guy respectfully? I doubt it. I don't see this guy responding to boundaries or feedback very well. I guess there's a world where somebody brave enough to check him might get his attention. Maybe in a weird way he'd kind of respect it, but this could very easily go the other way.

He lashes out, he figures out how to punish you, holds a vendetta for the next five years, tries to put you back in your place to reestablish the power dynamic. And because this guy is your superior, he might even end up being one of your examiners. There are some delicate politics at play, which he obviously understands better than anyone.

It might just not be worth rocking the boat. The last thing you need is somebody who's is hell bent on making sure you don't get your PhD or whatever. And even if he did respect it and treat you better, he'd probably still be a total see you next Tuesday to work with on anything. So I'm just not sure it would do all that much.

[00:38:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree, unfortunately, as for how to preserve your dignity while standing up for your values, I'm not sure you can really do that either. Not completely. And that is the problem. You know, you placate this guy, you play by his rules and that might in fact be the best move here, but it does come at a cost.

And that cost, like you said, is your authenticity. I mean, look, there is a world where you say to this guy, Hey, I've worked for you for a while now I see you do this thing. That thing I just wanna share. Not my favorite vibe. I don't appreciate it. Can

[00:38:43] Jordan Harbinger: you stop

[00:38:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: being such a dick? Can you stop being you for a moment?

You could say, I don't know if it's really necessary. And it might, it's landing with people in a way that maybe you don't realize. And we work really hard for you, and I think most of us feel weirded out, hurt, scared, unappreciated, whatever you wanna say. And I just wanna share that with you respectfully.

[00:39:01] Jordan Harbinger: And then you run to the bathroom to change your underwear because that's the scariest conversation of your life.

[00:39:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Terrifying. But it is an option, and I would applaud you if you did that. I just can't promise that it won't make him retaliate against you. Mm-hmm. And I definitely can't promise that it's for sure gonna lead to meaningful change on his part

[00:39:16] Jordan Harbinger: on the second point.

Definitely not I, I have very little, probably not, right?

[00:39:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. This also depends on whether you really need to stay in his good graces. Maybe you don't. That's an interesting question.

[00:39:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that is an interesting question. Does it actually matter if this guy hates her? Can she talk to her faculty and get a different examiner?

Can she still graduate with good grades and good recommendations and land a job, even if this guy's not her biggest fan? If so, I'd be more willing to stand up to him. But that's me. At 45 years old. I don't know how old you are, but when I was 23, just a little picture in law school, I doubt I would've stood up to somebody like this.

You get older, you start giving way less of a shit. What a holes think of you. You can take the heat better, but it's easy for me to say, I don't have to work with this goon every day. So here are your options. Option one, you keep this role, you keep your head down, you make it all about the work. You find ways of letting this guy's antics roll off your back.

Like I said, I don't think that's necessarily a failure on your part. You might have more to gain from having this job on your resume than you do by leaving. You might need to stay in his good graces for when he's your examiner and maybe you try thinking of him as narcissist grad school and you learn how to duck and weave with this guy's bs.

Build better boundaries, a stronger sense of self. And just remember that nothing that Professor X does is actually a reflection of you. It's a reflection of how pathological his personality is. And I gotta say, I actually think that's important no matter what you ultimately do. Because this is not the last narcissist that you're gonna encounter in the legal world.

If my law career, my very short law career is any indication. And also it's really good practice to learn how to not let a-holes ruin your life. It's not easy, but it is so helpful to learn how to build that emotional hazmat suit, how to forgive and compartmentalize so that tough personalities just don't ruin your life or your day.

And then once you're safe, when you land a job offer or something, once he can't do anything to you, maybe you write a compelling email to the faculty head, letting him know what it's like for everyone to have to work with this guy. Or you take a chance and you write that email. Now, maybe signed by some of your peers if they have the stones, and you just accept the consequences.

But you said, this place is run like an aristocracy. I'm just not sure that they're gonna take action.

[00:41:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: And by the way, in case it wasn't clear, when he asked for feedback on his presentation and you tried to give him a thought, and then he turned away and started talking to someone else, I strongly suspect that A, he did not want feedback.

He just wanted praise. The way he framed it also was like, did you guys even understand it? So annoying. B, you touched a part of him that was very insecure, very raw, and he did not like what that felt like. He didn't actually want any kind of criticism in the first place. And so I think he probably had to end the conversation and do some lame power move to reassert his control in order to defend what I imagine is a very fragile ego, which is what narcissism is in a nutshell.

So again, that was not about you. It was about him. It was about how vulnerable he actually is deep down. That's something else I would try to keep in mind. When you find yourself feeling like his behavior is somehow on you

[00:42:12] Jordan Harbinger: 100%, and option two, you decide that this guy's just too awful to work with and you move on.

That's what I do at this stage of my life. Early on, eh, it's more complicated. But before you do that, maybe give option one a try. Treat it like a game. Does my reality change when my mindset changes and see what happens? You might surprise yourself. Or maybe nothing changes. This is truly unsustainable.

Maybe there are other projects you'd rather be doing and you just move on. It's all legit. Just make sure that you're not shooting yourself in the foot or missing an opportunity to build some of these muscles by leaving prematurely. And who knows? Fast forward five years, 10 years, you're working for some inflated partner at a law firm or whatever.

Or you're a public servant presenting to some dickish, mp, whatever you're doing, and you finesse them perfectly because you worked with this Professor X Guy way back when, and you know all the moves. It's possible. You never know. Whatever you do, keep listening to your intuition. Ask for advice from a few other well-informed people.

Keep looking for the hidden opportunities and lessons here. And I know you're gonna make the right call. Good luck, man. I have some dark Jordan stuff, but it's too dark and it's actually not ethical at all, so I'm gonna leave it out. But I almost feel like if we ever offer premium content, it's gotta be like, okay, here's what I'd do if I was in psychopath mode.

'cause uh, some of it could be juicy and fun.

[00:43:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: We'll put that behind the dark paywall. That's right. The dark Jordan paywall. You gotta pay extra for the darkness.

[00:43:32] Jordan Harbinger: And now are you even smart enough to wrap your tiny little brain around the amazing deals on the fine products and services that support this show?

I. Probably not, but I'll give 'em to you anyway. You're welcome. We'll be right back.

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[00:45:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, next

[00:45:33] Jordan Harbinger: up.

[00:45:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my family and I live in Ohio and my mom has had mental health issues for over 20 years now. She was diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder when I was 16. At the time, she was held for three days in a mental health facility, but she was released because she was not considered a threat to herself or others.

Immediately upon release, she stopped taking her medicine and her mental health declined. She believed that most people were out to get her, including my dad. She completely stopped trusting doctors and hasn't seen one since. Since then, my dad has been unwilling to try to readmit her. For the most part, she's been stable, but with an underlying belief that there's a larger force in the world against her.

Although it didn't fully consume her life, and she was able to live a fairly normal one. Since the pandemic though, her mental and physical health has declined. The confusion of that time bolstered her distrust of the medical community. It became harder for her to walk too. Even going upstairs makes her winded.

Then recently things became exponentially worse. She spends much of her time sleeping and won't leave the house. I called her last night and she said that the last time we came over for dinner, we fed her parasites that are eating her brain. She then added that we dumped lice on her and she can't get them off.

She hasn't made any threats to her life or to others. So it seems like a three day hold is not an option. Are there any other options available to get her care, even if it's against her, will? Signed, hoping you can expound on the options around helping a parent whose mind is unsound,

[00:47:09] Jordan Harbinger: man, what a tragic situation this is.

I am so sorry that your mom is suffering so profoundly and that you had to grow up with a parent like this. This is just really next level stuff. Devastating. You said that your mom was diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder when you were 16, and it sounds like it's worsened over the years, which is really heartbreaking.

I can't even imagine what it must be like for a child to watch a parent go through something like this and for their mental illness to be bad, but maybe not always bad enough to intervene. My heart goes out to you. It really does. We wanted to run all of this by an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Aaron Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show.

I'm also known to the people who know me the best as the, and Dr. Margolis explained to us that there are generally three reasons that you can have someone involuntarily committed harm to self, harm to others, and what's called grave disability, meaning the person cannot provide for their own basic needs, food, clothing, shelter due to a mental health disorder or impairment, but proving that somebody is gravely disabled, that can actually be trickier than it seems.

For example, you said your mom won't leave the house, so she obviously has shelter. It sounds like she's probably clothed as well, and whether she's clothed, that might be less relevant if she's warm and cozy at home. So Dr. Margolis said that your best shot at proving grave disability would probably be if she's not feeding herself or she's otherwise engaging, what's called life sustaining activities.

Like if she stops eating because of her delusion, that you guys are poisoning her food. Also, she said that because your mom has been formally diagnosed, that might actually help meet one of the requirements for the definition of grave disability. But there's a threshold of criteria that needs to be met for that one as well.

And it's unclear from your letter whether she really meets it. Also, that threshold might change state to state, or even official to official, whether it's a cop or a psychiatrist, or a Department of Mental health employee. We did some digging into this. And in Ohio, if you wanna have somebody involuntarily committed, you generally start by filing an affidavit with the probate court alleging that the person meets the criteria for involuntary commitment.

Apparently that's called the pink slip process, which made me chuckle a little bit because as far as I know, it's always been a euphemism for getting fired from a job.

[00:49:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I had never heard of that either. Maybe they call it that because you're being fired from the job of living in your house alone,

[00:49:25] Jordan Harbinger: maybe.

Yeah. Being fired from imaginary lice removal duty, which honestly, that sounds like it would be a relief to get help with situation like this. Totally. Proleptic relief I would add. That's right. Mm-hmm. The other option is to try to get emergency custody of your mother. So either you call 9 1 1 and you tell 'em your mom's in trouble, or you take her to the hospital to get checked out, and if there's an immediate risk, law enforcement or a medical professional can take her into emergency custody and transport her to a mental health facility for evaluation, which usually happens within 24 to 72 hours.

If the evaluation supports involuntary commitment, then you would have a probable cause hearing where evidence about your mom would be presented. She would actually have the right to legal representation. And finally, if the court determines that the criteria for commitment are met. The person may then be ordered to receive inpatient or outpatient treatment for a specified period of time.

So it's a process, not exactly a simple one, and you'd probably need to consult an attorney or a local mental health organization for help navigating this process because it can get complicated and it can take time.

[00:50:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, what might be especially challenging in your mom's case, if you were to intervene, it might reinforce some of her paranoia that you guys are in fact out to get her, which can be really tough.

It might make things worse in the short term, it might bring up some very difficult feelings for you and for your dad, for the rest of the family. I just want to acknowledge how devastating and just how distressing that can be to watch. There is another option available to you, which is to seek guardianship over your mother.

Now, guardianship is another legal construct. It allows you to make decisions on behalf of a person who's basically unable to care for themselves or manage their affairs because. They're severely mentally ill or they have other conditions and there are several types of guardianship. You can have guardianship of a person, you can have guardianship of their estate of both, or you could just have like a limited guardianship that gives you specific powers as granted by the court.

And given your mom's state, this might be a really good option, but this would be a process too. Your mom would need to be deemed incompetent by a probate court, which means proving that she's unable to manage her personal affairs or financial affairs due to her mental illness due to developmental disabilities or some other reason.

You would probably need a formal evaluation by a medical or a mental health professional to support the claim of incompetency. You would need to file a petition for guardianship in the probate court in your mom's county. You would need to attend a hearing to review evidence and testimony. Your mom would have the right again to be present at the hearing.

She could contest the guardianship. She would've a right to her own legal representation. And if the court grants the petition, then you or whoever the guardian ends up being, maybe your dad and maybe somebody else in the family. The guardian will have to comply with certain reporting requirements and oversight requirements, which include apparently submitting annual reports to the court.

Also, guardianship can significantly restrict a person's rights, so the courts often consider it a last resort, right? There are some

[00:52:16] Jordan Harbinger: alternatives to guardianship, though. There's power of attorney, which is when somebody voluntarily grants decision making authority to somebody that they trust, which can be extremely helpful.

And then there's conservatorship, and that's when a person requests assistance with managing their affairs. Although that might require your mom's participation, which seems questionable. See, also the Britney Spears debacle with conservatorship, but it might be really helpful in your situation. So you have a number of options.

None of them are easy, but some might be less difficult than others. No matter what you do, I think you're gonna wanna consult with an attorney. They can tell you what options are more feasible, what your mom truly needs, what the courts are likely to grant in this case, and then you can kind of go from there.

[00:52:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's so interesting. Your mom is clearly experiencing serious mental illness. She obviously needs help and she might continue to get worse, but she might also fall in that strange gray area between people who are functional enough to live on their own and people who definitely need more serious care.

This is kind of where Josh, my old neighbor, fell for a while and I saw firsthand how hard it was for his family and for the landlord and for the state to know what to do with this guy. So cases like your mom's can be really tricky if she's eating and bathing and has a roof over her head and she's not threatening to hurt herself or hurt anyone else, but she is talking to the parasites in her brain or whatever.

There might be a case for leaving her alone and just keeping an eye on her from a distance. I know you want to intervene. I get why you do. I probably would too. And for all I know you should intervene before things get worse. But this might be a situation where you monitor your mom from afar and see if things do actually get worse and kind of surrender to the reality that she might be a very sad and tragic presence in your life to some degree for a while, and that until her situation worsens, you might not be able to do all that much for her.

[00:54:07] Jordan Harbinger: I hear that, but I'm also wondering, since she seems to be decompensating more and more, maybe he should use this window where she's somewhat coherent to get conservatorship or power of attorney. Maybe he or his dad can pitch it to her as wanting to take good care of her as she gets older, so that if things do get worse, he at least has that in place and that might be all the power that he needs to keep her safe.

[00:54:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, it's a good idea and it might also be a good starting point for more serious interventions down the road,

[00:54:33] Jordan Harbinger: but like you said a moment ago, if he does this, he also needs to be prepared that in her mind it might just confirm some of her paranoid beliefs and he might not get much traction. Dr.

Margolis also pointed out that people are complicated and sometimes the system, it just sucks and there are limitations to what we can and can't do. And as Dr. Margolis pointed out, that requires coming into contact with some difficult feelings and processing again, some profound grief about not being able to help your mom, about not having the mom that you wanted and needed about feeling powerless in general, which is where your mom's tragedy really comes back around to you.

How you work through all of this.

[00:55:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm also curious to know where your dad is in all of this. You said that he's been unwilling to readmit her, but I wonder if there might also be room for conversations with him. Somewhere in here. I mean, maybe you guys could talk about why he's so resistant to getting our help.

See if he might be open to new options. Find a way to collaborate with him so that this doesn't all fall on you. I really do feel like this should be a team effort. This shouldn't just be you trying to figure this out on your own and getting nowhere.

[00:55:34] Jordan Harbinger: Good point. I also wonder if our friend has some feelings of his own to process around dad's resistance to getting involved.

'cause. That seems to be making his mom's care fall entirely on him, which I'm sure brings up a lot of stuff and maybe it speaks to his dad's whole way of dealing with his mom for years, which also might

[00:55:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: be complicated. I totally agree. And to that point, I, I would be remiss if I didn't say, I hope you're finding your own support to help process some of this stuff if possible.

Because Jordan said, growing up with a parent like this, I'm sure it's had a profound effect on you. It might've created a complicated relationship with your own emotions. It might've made you feel like you always need to take care of other people, especially your mom, which was not your job, and it might've been really hard, maybe impossible for her to show up for you in the ways that you really needed as a child.

So talking about all of that on therapy would be very powerful.

[00:56:22] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Plus, a therapist could help advise you on your options with your mom,

[00:56:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: what she really needs right now, and also what not intervening, if that's what he decides to do, which is an option, what not intervening would bring up for him, because not taking care of his mom.

That might feel just as complicated to him as having to take care of her.

[00:56:39] Jordan Harbinger: Good point, man, that's so tough. It's really hard to let a parent suffer like this and not intervene. I am so sorry that you have to worry about this. I'm so sorry about the legacy of having a parent like this, but your job now is to find a way to make peace with your mom's story while also taking appropriate action, whether that's legal action or taking care of yourself along the way, sending you your mom and your whole family.

A big hug and wishing you all the best. Big thanks also to Dr. Margolis for her wisdom and advice. Dr. Margolis is seeing patients in Los Angeles and virtually throughout California. You can learn more about her and her approach@drerinmargolis.com. I'm willing to that in the show notes and right now time for the recommendation of the week.

[00:57:19] JHS Clip: I am addicted to it, fella.

[00:57:22] Jordan Harbinger: I'm on it again this week. This one is super easy, super fast. In whatever calendar program you use, your to-do list, your reminders, whatever, set an annual reminder to check expiration dates for medicine in your home and travel kit. The stuff in the drawer. The stuff in the do kit.

I needed Imodium urgently. That's just leave it there when traveling. And all I found were two pills that expired during the Obama administration, and I mean the first part of the Obama administration. And let's just say I was desperate enough that I took them and they worked, but I don't know, might have been nice to have something that wasn't old enough to drive to fix something in my gut.

And by the way, it's usually safe to take expired medication, but it's not always very effective. We have an episode that we did an early skeptical Sunday on expiration dates for medicine. It was episode 6, 4 6. I think we actually mentioned medicine and not just food, uh, but either way worth listening to 'cause food.

Expiration dates are kind of BS two, although you know at your own peril medicine, usually harmless but also might not actually work. Alright, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. You can jump into discussions with other listeners about pretty much anything. There's a meme thread. It's over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.

If you are a Reddit user or a redditer as us Reddit nerds, call it all

[00:58:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: next up, howdy gents. This week I unfortunately had to say goodbye to my dog, muu. He required regimented care since the day I got him from a rescue over three years ago to the point where my life revolved around ensuring that he was always taken care of and med managed before me and my other dog.

Who I've had for over nine years now. The loss was pretty sudden and sitting with him in his final moments shattered me. In those final moments, I was so beside myself with grief processing. How final euthanasia is that all I could do was pet him and rub his cheeks and ears as they started the process.

I'm crushed, have balled my eyes out countless times and feel listless. My other dog is also feeling the loss pretty heavily. They were buds and I truly believe he sense his moo is gone forever. I picked up his paw print from the vet the next day, and I had my other dog in the car. When I put the box with the print in the car, my other dog started a wooing.

Oh, which he only does when anxious or excited. My heart broke into a million pieces. Oh man.

[00:59:46] Jordan Harbinger: Oh my God, this is so sad. And I'm remembering when I put down my dog in the look on his face, oh, I am. Uh, this is not.

[00:59:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, gonna work.

[00:59:54] Jordan Harbinger: This is gonna be tough for me. It's so

[00:59:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: intense. The last two years have been incredibly tough.

I've gone through two layoffs, a move, relationship changes, financial struggles, and now my super loving, goofy and smelly little puff is gone. I feel so close to the end of my path of life, like my footholds have eroded and the path in front of me has collapsed entirely. How do I pick these pieces up?

Signed feeling like I'm flagging and unsure what I should be grabbing now that my buddy's tail has stopped wagging. Jesus Gabe. Way to destroy everyone with the sign off. Geez. Sorry. That might've been a little much. I'm sorry. Kind. That was a little too intense. Yeah.

[01:00:37] Jordan Harbinger: Who brought these onions in here? Why did you have to bring in the wagging tail into this?

Oh my bad. This is a very moving letter and a tough letter. I can hear the pain that you're in right now, how confusing this moment in your life is. I am so sorry that you had to say goodbye to Mumo, which is a really cute name for a dog. By the way, the bond between humans and pets, especially dogs, is very unique, very powerful, and even more powerful when you need to take this much care of them.

Losing an animal you love is always devastating, and having to put down an animal you love is uniquely intense. So everything you're feeling right now makes a lot of sense. You're grieving, man. Hard and grief brings up a lot of stuff, not just about what you've lost, but about everything leading up to it, about the future, about this moment in your life.

Having to navigate it all without your bud, as you know, it can be very, very painful. I'm also hearing that you did an incredible job of taking care of this dog. That was not an easy pup to have. Having your whole life revolve around an animal's care is just a, it's a beautiful commitment. It's also a massive responsibility, and it sounds like you took it all on with a lot of love and devotion.

By the way, that includes putting them down when the time was right. That is one of the most intense things you can go through, personal experience, but it's the right thing to do. Being there with your animal in their final moments. I know it's devastating, but it's also an act of great love and compassion, and I'm confident that Mumu felt that what a gift for both of you.

That's something to be proud of. It's something to be grateful for. So you're asking a really big and profound question here. How do we move through these losses? How do we survive change? How do we pick up the pieces? And the truth is, I don't know if we can answer all of those easily on a podcast. You are in a process right now, a very intense and sacred process mourning, and everyone has to find their own way through it.

But I can offer you a few thoughts. The first thing I want you to remember is the pain you're in right now. I know it's overwhelming, but it really is the flip side of love. This is the deal we make every time we enter into a relationship with someone or something. One day we will lose this. It's very intense.

It's actually kind of insane that we open up our hearts to these animals over and over again, knowing how it's gonna end to say nothing, of opening our hearts to people, but we do it because we know that the joy and connection is worth the pain that will inevitably feel in that way, the pain you're feeling, it really is a reflection of how much you love this dog and how much this dog loved you, and that pain is awful as it is.

It's also kind of a privilege to feel. It's a perverse privilege, but a very real one. The second thing I want you to keep in mind, and I know this is trite, but it's true, you will not feel this exact way forever. This grief is very fresh. You're still reeling from the loss. Everything is brand new. It's probably the most intense that it's gonna be, and you have to keep reminding yourself of that.

But grief evolves. These feelings, they shift. That's what they do. How you feel today, I can pretty much guarantee that you won't feel that same way in a week, two weeks in a month, certainly in a year. Whether you consciously work on it or not, there's a healing process happening in the background, and our minds are very good at adapting to new realities.

It's kind of remarkable, and I say this not to minimize the pain that you're in, I say this to, just to give you a little perspective, I'm sure you'll always have a pang of grief when you think about mumu. I'm sure there's always gonna be an empty spot in your heart, but when it gets really intense, try to remind yourself that your experience of this loss and all of these big feelings and questions it brings up, they won't always feel exactly this way.

There is a version of you in the future that's living with this loss and living with it well. So I think a big part of our job when we go through grief is to just trust and allow that process to unfold, which means feeling all the feelings it brings up, that's essential, but also not clinging to them too tightly or putting too much stock in them because they're gonna keep evolving.

They're gonna bring up new thoughts, new feelings, including some nice ones, and I think you'll be surprised by where you are in just a few months. So, yeah, by all means, these big questions you're asking are important. I'm all for them. But a big part of your job is to just doggy paddle in these waves for just a little while.

Just stay afloat and remember that the waters will eventually calm down and what feels very painful and confusing today will start to settle and make more sense very soon.

[01:05:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm. Yeah. Well said. Jordan, obviously I'm thinking about Drake a lot, as you say, all of this, and yeah, everything you just described is exactly what I found to be true with him and with all the pets that I've lost over the years, and I've lost a good number of them.

I also hear him that this loss is hitting him extra hard. It sounds like he's at a tough two years, and that has turned this latest grief into what sounds like kind of a crisis, and I understand that too. Everything you're describing, feeling disoriented, feeling hopeless. Feeling kind of unmoored like you don't know where you're going, there's no rudder, you don't have your familiar markers.

All of those are classic symptoms of grief. But these feelings might also be symptoms of a kind of breakdown, kind of like a, an existential breakdown, which might have been precipitated by losing mumu, but might also have been building for a while. You have gone through a lot of loss recently, my friend, two layoffs.

A big move. Sounds like maybe a breakup, or at least a shift in your relationship. There's financial stress. That's a lot to go through, and I'm sure all of that made your dogs even more important to you, right? They kept you company, they gave you an anchor. They were a source of comfort of companionship.

So this is all connected, but what I wanna share with you is these crises, these breakdowns, can be terrifying. They can also be very, very profound, and I actually think they're essential. What you are learning right now or what you're about to learn is that everything in our life, including us, has to die literally or metaphorically.

Relationships, situations, life phases, identities, they have to break down. They have to die in order for us to grow, and that's part of their job to fall away eventually, and that is really painful. The pain is part of how the breakdown functions, and that's okay. Although I will say the more you embrace these crises, the more you get curious about them and let yourself swim around in them a little bit more.

Jordan's doggy paddling metaphor is a really good one. I think the less painful they are, but you don't need to negotiate too much with the pain. You can just let that part be. I'm not sure we can tell you specifically how to pick up the pieces of your life. It's possible that some of these pieces can't be picked up.

Maybe some of them shouldn't be picked up, and that's a little bit of a scary thought. It's also kind of interesting, you know, maybe part of this transition you're in is grieving the parts of your life that have fallen away and then starting to create new ones, or at least be open to new ones. And they always come, whether you ask for them or not, you know, change.

Go and change, right? Life can life. Mm-hmm. If you can get friendly with that idea, it can be very liberating. It can be very clarifying, and in time it'll actually start to become very exciting, but it's gonna require you to let go of the need to put your life back together exactly the way it was, or to make sense of everything perfectly in order to heal.

Neither of those things is actually possible, because again, everything is constantly changing. Everything is constantly dying, including us as it should, and life rarely makes sense in the way that our minds want to make sense of it, in my experience. But in the bigger picture, in its like very bizarre way, it's almost mystical.

Life always ends up making perfect sense, but that's not really up to us to control. It's only up to us to appreciate and discover and hopefully collaborate with, and that includes your grief for mumu. So yeah, by all means, invest in your relationships. Keep looking for the job that you want, settle into your new home, make new friends, become financially stable.

All of that is crucial. You have to create the path that you feel has collapsed. But while you do that, I would also try to make room for the idea that a new path is unfolding as it should, and the confusion that you feel right now, the fear that you feel they are not necessarily a problem or a failure on your part.

They might just be what it feels like to not know exactly what's happening, which is more than okay. I find that there's a very thin line between confusion and wonder, just something I've been appreciating lately. So. Without being too cute about it. I have a feeling that this might be one of the great gifts that Mumu gave you on his way out.

Just this opportunity to learn how to let go and find the courage to keep moving forward without knowing exactly where that's gonna go. And also to keep believing in the potential of your life and the value of your life because it is valuable, even when it starts to look unfamiliar.

[01:09:37] Jordan Harbinger: Damn, I was not expecting Rabbi Gabe to show up today,

[01:09:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: rabbi Gabe.

Me either. I don't know. I hope that meant something to this guy. I've been going through, obviously, my own version of this the last couple years. So I really relate to this story. Uh, I get it.

[01:09:51] Jordan Harbinger: Say, look, in my own way. Also, I haven't had a dog since I was a kid, so that grief is a little more remote for me.

But what you said about life breaking down how we constantly have to mourn, I feel that hard. I have these moments sometimes with Jaden and Juniper, where I realize that like my life is shifting right in front of me if I really pay attention. And I know that in a few years, this chapter of my life will be dead and gone and there'll be a new amazing one, and then that one will die, and then there'll be another amazing one.

And if I'm lucky, that'll go on and on until I am dead. And it's sad to face that it's also really amazing and awesome in some ways. Something kids have a real way of teaching you just by existing. And for our friend here, maybe that's what Mumu is now teaching him. So again, I'm so sorry that you had to say goodbye.

I'm sorry this transition is so intense, but given everything we're talking about, I'm also not sorry. I'm actually very moved by your story. I'm inspired by it. Because I think you've been thrown into a very profound process, a really important chapter, and I'm excited to hear what comes of it. And I know that's easy for me to say.

You're the one who has to hold all the pain, but I know you'll get there too. And that this loss, like all losses, is gonna play an important role in your life. It's gonna lead you to feelings and perspectives you can't even imagine yet. Sending you a big hug, my man. Hang in there. Shout out to Muu, that needy little Buddha who allowed us to pop off like a couple of amateur gurus today.

Who clearly opened your heart in some amazing ways. Don't forget to check out our episodes this week with Anne Applebaum on authoritarian regimes and how they cooperate and why, as well as our skeptical Sunday on fake foods. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.

I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself. It's our six minute networking course. I show this hard on every episode. I'm gonna give it a rest here. Dig the well before you're thirsty, six minute networking.com. Show notes on the website, advertisers discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty. Ian Baird taught us SLOs, and of course, Gabriel Rahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own. I'm a lawyer, not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Ditto Corbin. Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time. You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show about a guy who went from Nigerian royalty to the rugged streets of the Bronx. Remy Adele's life was thrown into chaos after a corrupt government stripped his family of their legacy, dive deep into his captivating journey from being surrounded by drugs and drive-bys to his inspiring pursuit to become a US Navy Seal, even though he didn't know how to swim.

[01:12:48] JHS Clip: There's a saying in Nigeria every day is for the thief. Corruption was my dad's demise. They knew that my father would not stop fighting them. They killed my dad and went from riches and wealth to the Bronx man, and it was really, really rough. Once you make the decision to join the Navy, in my opinion, you're giving up any fear of death.

One day I got approached by another human trafficking nonprofit that actually employed former seals and former agency guys going to other countries to rescue kids trapped in sex trafficking. But specifically kids who are. Being purchased by Americans, when I got down there, my eyes would just like open fully.

And I just remember being appalled that parents would sell their daughters to traffickers in the north. I just remember being disgusted. It's such a global issue, but human trafficking is a blanket term under human trafficking. You have sex trafficking, you have organ harvesting, you have forced marriage, you have forced labor.

You know, I made the film in order to be able to expose more people to this atrocity of organ harvesting. But the perception of these traffickers is that they're these scraggly, evil looking, uneducated, you know, on the corner type people. And the reality is the majority of people involved on the Oregon harvesting side of things are highly educated, learned people.

The truth needs to get out there.

[01:14:16] Jordan Harbinger: But that's not all. Remy's fight is far from over as he confronts the dark underworld of human trafficking and illegal organ harvesting. To uncover what drives the man who refuses to be defeated. Check out episode 8 68 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.