1146: Ed Helms | Fame, Family, and Finding Joy in Failure

1146: Ed Helms | Fame, Family, and Finding Joy in Failure

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional Emmy nominated comedian, music mogul, or special operator.

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That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan harbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today on the show, the one and only Ed Helms, you know him from the Office as the naral and as Stu from The Hangover. We talk about, of course, the Office and The Hangover, his new book Snafu, which is some of history's greatest screw ups.

Having a super successful career as a creative and a whole lot more. It's just a fun conversation, as you might expect from somebody like Ed Helms. He was an open book, really cool, really laid back, especially since we got to do it in person. I just thought it was a hell of a lot of fun and I think you will too.

Alright, here we go with Ed Helms. By the way, I heard you love RC Cars. Oh yeah. I still have a shitload of Trax cars in my garage. Are you serious?

[00:01:27] Ed Helms: Yeah. Wow. Got tons. I got really into RC helicopters. When they were first coming out at a consumer level. Yeah. And as a kid I was into RC cars and I had had the K show Optima.

Those are cool school. Oh, they're so great. But um, those are a little outta reach for, uh, actual kids, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. And, and then it's so weird when I got super into those little helicopters and I remember there was a hobby shop right next to my hotel in Ypsilanti, Michigan. Yeah. Where I was filming the movie Cedar Rapids,

[00:01:59] Jordan Harbinger: which Ipsy, for those who don't know, is if you're in Ann Arbor going to college, Ipsy is the dangerous part near Ann Arbor where you only go there for one reason.

Do you know that reason? The hobby shop? I don't know. Yeah. There's a deja vu strip club that might make still be there. Oh, okay. Great. You don't know anything about that. Of course. Yeah. That's all anybody does there. Deja vu. If you don't, you fly RC helicopters. There you go. Yeah. So what is this about you flying one around the lobby of the hotel though?

[00:02:26] Ed Helms: There was a PA that worked on the movie who was like my guy. And I would just be like, Hey, run to the hobby shop. I broke a rotor. Will you go get me another one? So he was back and forth all the time. And sometimes I'd be like, all right, here's a hundred bucks. Just buy something cool and bring it back.

And he'd come back. He'd like, here's this cool car. Wow. And we'd just like race him around wherever we were. So yeah, like all over the set. I was constantly like. Like buzzing people with these little helicopters. The crew was getting super annoyed. Yeah. It's

[00:02:54] Jordan Harbinger: all fun and games till a

[00:02:54] Ed Helms: red camera gets beaned with a exactly a hundred

[00:02:57] Jordan Harbinger: thousand camera.

[00:02:58] Ed Helms: And then Miguel Arta, the director, was like, you know what, there's a face you make when you're flying that helicopter they've never seen you make otherwise. And I wanted in the movie, so we're gonna have a scene where Tim Lippy, your character is flying this helicopter. And he did. And it's in the movie.

That's awesome. I'm just sitting in my office like, and you see the little helicopter fly by.

[00:03:21] Jordan Harbinger: That's a joy. That look. Yeah. So the look is unadulterated joy, right? Where you're just transported back to kid mode and you're like, this is cool as hell. It's almost

[00:03:28] Ed Helms: like a meditative state.

[00:03:30] Music (2): Yeah.

[00:03:30] Ed Helms: Truly. It's like I'm elsewhere.

I'm in this little helicopter that's flying around. There's something so exhilarating about controlling an apparatus that when I was a kid, I. Helicopters were the coolest thing, and now I can pilot one. Yeah, it totally ignites my childhood enthusiasm.

[00:03:47] Jordan Harbinger: There's a guy in a park near my house and he flies this plane, this RC plane, around and around and around and around, and I.

My wife goes, he's there for hours. He must be so bored with his life. And I was like, no, that guy, this is his happy place, man. He's not thinking about his bills. He's not thinking about his bum leg. He's not thinking about his, I don't know, prostate enlargement issue or whatever. He's not thinking about all the crap that he is been through.

And this is an older guy. Yeah, he is like all the losses. No, this is where he just is. Yeah. For four hours a day in the sun, not giving a crap about the melanoma developing. I get this bald head.

[00:04:22] Ed Helms: I get him. Yeah, I get that. Exactly. A hundred percent. I've gotten into the crawlers recently. Do you know? Yeah.

So they're the really slow RC trucks. It's like this meditative thing. 'cause they'll go like over rocks and trails and stuff. I never thought I'd be into a slow RC car, but it's really fun. And of course they go fast too, so you can zip 'em around. But on hiking trails. It's like a little road for a little car.

That's right. There's people that, how many people have turned this podcast off at this point? Like what is he talking about? They're gonna get to the point at

[00:04:54] Jordan Harbinger: some point in this show. Right? Yeah. I read that you had some career clarity really early. You said, I went back to Oberlin and they showed me my application and there's a question on it that says, what are your career goals?

And I wrote tv, film, actor, producer. I was 17 years old. It seems like a huge advantage to have that kind of clarity at 17 because I don't even think I had clarity about what I wanted to do. I used to be a lawyer before this. Wait, you didn't know

[00:05:19] Ed Helms: you wanted to be a podcaster before podcasting existed, right?

I did love radio. Yeah. And I

[00:05:24] Jordan Harbinger: wanted to talk on the radio and my mom was like, they don't make any money and it's impossible job to get. Forget about it. And I was like, okay. But I was probably eight then. Yeah. Because I built an FM radio transmitter that would go around the neighborhood. Whoa. Which is illegal, by the way.

Anything further than your, but who cares? You're a little Marconi in the attic building your radio. That's so cool. I thought that was cool. And there's something magical about other people being able to hear you. Podcasting really scratched that itch for me, but it seems like it wasn't just, I wanna be on tv because you said producer, which is not something you say when you're like, I want people to adore me unquestioningly, and.

Get lots of girls. It seems like it's deeper than that. I can't

[00:05:59] Ed Helms: explain it, but at least I knew I wanted. I didn't know that it was realistic or even plausible for a long time. But even as a little kid, and so many comedy people say this to the point where it's almost hacky, but it's a hundred percent true with me, which is that watching Saturday Night Live and watching Eddie Murphy and Mike Myers and all these guys that I just, I started watching, I think Eddie Murphy was on when I was eight years old.

How was that allowed? Sneaking downstairs with my best friend Nick, and we would watch these things and then recite them for hours and reenact them and we didn't get 'em, like, we didn't get the jokes like Mr. Robinson's neighborhood, like I got that as a kid. But I loved it. I just loved the energy and it was something I knew I wanted to be a part of somehow, and I took it for granted, this is what I want to do.

And it, as I got older, it started to feel more possible. Like I developed this mindset of like. Any job that I want to have or any adventure that I want to be a part of. Somebody's doing it. That person had a path to get there. There's no reason I can't find a path to get to the thing I want. I don't know.

That's a very hopeful mindset, and I don't know where it came from, honestly. I think I credit my parents somewhat with giving me a lot of safety and self-confidence to kind of like find that mindset. But I also think there was a part of me that really wanted to get away from my home. I was raised in the south and I always felt like a fish outta water there.

I need more. I need some adventure. I need something bigger, which is also a fallacy. And so I moved forward with this clarity that I took for granted, and I look back and I'm like, I'm so grateful. I had that clarity and I used to look at other people and be like, why are you so lost? Just dig in, figure out what you wanna do.

And it took me a long time to realize, oh, that's actually a very rare gift that I was given, is that clarity. Now I don't take it for granted at all. I'm so grateful that I had. Such a specific passion. I can't totally explain it, but it was something I had and was lucky enough to follow.

[00:08:03] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I agree man.

I started this podcast when I was probably 26 and I'm 45 now. Maybe I was 27. I have to do the math on this, but I. That was early. It was early for podcast, but it was early in my life. You had yours at 17. Most people, I don't think either ever get that clarity or they get it when they're like 38 and they go, that's gonna be a hobby because I've been a lawyer for 15 years.

Sure. And this is my career and this is what pays the bills. And I'm not gonna start over to go do improv shows on weekends when I'm making three or four or 500 grand as a, like, that's irresponsible at that point. If you have a family, sure. To do that. If you're single, I guess go for it. You only live once.

But it seems like that clarity, like you said, yeah, it's a gift. You just get it early and you have a massive head start.

[00:08:45] Ed Helms: And I think also having the circumstances in your life, even as a young person to chase that thing. I was fortunate enough that I wasn't saddled with student debt. My parents were able to pay my college and things like that, that I just.

I'm so grateful looking back, those are the things that enabled me to make some probably riskier choices than a lot of people have an opportunity to

[00:09:06] Jordan Harbinger: do. Yeah. It's important that we recognize that. I agree with you. I think it's real easy for people like us to sit up there and go like, man, just go for it and follow your dreams.

And so let me ask you this. What was gonna happen to you if your dream failed? Oh, I go back and live in my, uh, in-law unit and then probably work for my uncle's car dealership or whatever. Right. People say, and it's, oh, I was gonna be homeless because I don't know where my father is and my mother lives in public housing and I can't live.

Yeah. And you're like, oh yeah, that's a worse alternative. I understand why you took the safer route. I

[00:09:34] Ed Helms: have evolved so much on my understanding of meritocracy as a concept. Yeah. I used to look at my career and my success and be like, I built it. I did all this. I took huge risks. I worked my ass off and.

Both of those things are true. It's true.

[00:09:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:09:51] Ed Helms: And also I am lucky as hell in a thousand different ways. And I had opportunities that other people don't have and I had access to whatever that maybe other people didn't have. My career wasn't handed to me. But it's just important to look back with gratitude at some of the things that paved the way that fell into place.

Yeah, it fell into place. Exactly.

[00:10:10] Jordan Harbinger: There's a book I read a long time ago, I can't remember the title unfortunately, but it was about luck and how most people don't wanna acknowledge the role that luck plays in their life.

[00:10:18] Ed Helms: Yeah.

[00:10:18] Jordan Harbinger: But then they went over certain characters like Bill Gates or something and how it might be like a Malcolm Gladwell outliers.

Yeah, it's outliers. Yeah. And they go over the luck factor and it's, bill Gates did this and he saw this coming, but he also went to a school where there was a computer and it was like the only one right. That side of the Mississippi. And they got the keys and they could go in there at night. So they spent a thousand times more computer hours than their peers did.

Right. On this thing. Or

[00:10:41] Ed Helms: they had access to a mentor. Yeah. In a certain space. I go back to this a lot 'cause I have little kids now, and I think about this all the time, just about. When a kid feels safe, what they have access to inside of themselves. So many kids aren't safe for a thousand different reasons, whether it's food insecurity or an abusive home or a addicted parent or whatever it is.

There are so many things that safety interrupts, and there's so many ways, obviously, that kids persevere through these things, and my childhood wasn't a hundred percent safe that there were certain difficulties. But I do think that Bill Gates grew up in a home where it was safe for him to be like a nerdy kid.

Right. Leaning into his

[00:11:20] Jordan Harbinger: interests. Yeah. He didn't have

[00:11:21] Ed Helms: the jock dad like screaming at him to go to football practice or whatever that could've looked like, so. Well, that's an interesting

[00:11:27] Jordan Harbinger: point. Yeah, so

[00:11:27] Ed Helms: it's, you're right. There are so many factors. It's just a constellation of factors that allow us to get on these pathways, especially unusual or special ones, like the careers that we've had.

And you just have to be grateful.

[00:11:42] Jordan Harbinger: You've been in some massive franchises, the Hangover, the Office, they have these intense fan cultures. I'm sure you've noticed. What's the most surreal moment you've had when you realized maybe how much public perception had shifted around you? Because it happens, I won't say overnight, but you build up to it.

But you talk about this on Conan, there's these different levels of fan,

[00:11:59] Ed Helms: right? Yeah. Gosh. I do remember being in London when we were doing hangover press and we were in London for a premiere and we were out to dinner with, it was me and Bradley and Zach and a few other Warner Brothers Brass, and I think a couple of other cast people were with us and they were getting numbers from the US Box office.

Oh, I see. And the Warner Brothers people were like, this is unbelievable. This is incredible. And one of the executives like turns to me and goes, your life is about to completely change. But I just remember being like, I just took a bite of this steak and now the next bite I take of the steak. I'm a different person, right?

You're

[00:12:41] Jordan Harbinger: celebrity now. It's

[00:12:41] Ed Helms: like

[00:12:41] Jordan Harbinger: a totally different thing. Say the second bite tastes better.

[00:12:44] Ed Helms: The second bite I took was inadequate. I didn't measure up. The first bite was the best one I ever had. What's your celebrity? Nothing measures up. It sort of hit in a way that was like, okay, intellectually I can understand that, but what's that gonna feel like?

And then it just creeps into you. And I think the strangest thing about your profile rising so quickly and massively is that you no longer control your experience of an environment.

[00:13:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:13:11] Ed Helms: So like an airport is probably the most easy one to understand this.

[00:13:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, the classic one, right?

[00:13:16] Ed Helms: So you walk into an airport as a anonymous civilian and you can go and stand at baggage claim. And if there's some crazy person next to you, or like really obnoxious person or stinky person or whatever, you just walk away, go stand at another place and whatever. Read your book, listen to your podcast. But.

At a certain level of celebrity, you can no longer take those little measures of control. You might have walked away from a situation in that instance, but at a certain level of celebrity, you can no longer take those little steps because they won't matter. They won't fix anything.

[00:13:50] Jordan Harbinger: I see. So the stinky person just follows you from one point of the baggage claim?

Yeah. To the other,

[00:13:54] Ed Helms: yeah. Or there's still people yelling at you. You go to a different place. People are still yelling nar dog or worse like they do. It's very fearful. I can no longer control my environment. And you take for granted how much anonymity allows you to actually control your circumstances. So in a weird way, it's been this lesson in letting go that I probably needed at some level when we were on the Daily Show, this is, we have toy fame, meaning it's fun to play with.

You get to go to an airport. Nobody really recognized it's basic cable fame. 'cause we were all on the Daily show, so like fans recognized us, but nobody else. You can walk through the airport and you're pretty much fine, but you're gonna go to like an Einstein Bagels and they'll be like, do you want some free cream cheese on that?

Uh, I'll hook you up, man. Yeah. I'll hook at, it's like you just bump into fans here and there and there's like really fun energy around it. And then as it grows and grows, it's real. It's like real adult fame. Yeah. And that has a lot of consequences that go with it.

[00:14:50] Jordan Harbinger: I think a lot of us are going. What's the hard part about being famous?

Come on. Most people don't see the flip side of it. They only see the upside of it. They think, oh man, you get free cream cheese on your bagel. Right? You probably get seated preferentially. You can pre-board on an airplane. You can do all kinds of stuff. You can get a table at this restaurant without waiting.

They're not gonna make you wait 45 minutes. They're gonna let you come and sit down. You're gonna look cool for every girl that you're with or whatever at any time. Well, you know, those days are gone for both of us probably. But there's a downside I assume too, like you said, where you can't get away from the farter at the baggage claim.

Right. There's just a farter on the other side waiting to bother

[00:15:23] Ed Helms: you. Yeah. It's the change in your existence. That's the hardest thing to accept. And once you've gotten through that, like any change in your life, any dramatic change is going to upset the apple cart in some way. Yeah. There's gonna be some good things and some difficult things.

Honestly, I don't know. I've gotten so used to it and it's tempered now when I have a movie coming out or I have something big going on like this book. My profile does rise in the zeitgeist for a moment and I'm recognized a lot more in those moments. I don't know, it's just not as big a deal as it was.

[00:15:59] Jordan Harbinger: I can see that.

It's very funny that this happened to me right before this interview, but I was eating at Sugarfish, which is one of my favorite sushi places in la. It's right near the studio. And I zoned out staring at the waitress and the bar 'cause I wanted something and then she walked away and I just kept staring in that direction.

And then I noticed this guy had like a really bright shirt on, started staring back at me awkwardly. And I was like, oh gosh, that guy thinks I'm looking at him. This is embarrassing. Now I have to look away. And then I looked away and I went. The guy looks familiar and I looked over and he was still looking at me and it was Adam Sandler.

And I was like, crap. He just thinks I'm gonna do some weird thing. When I was looking for a Diet Coke refill, so the whole rest of the meal, I have to awkwardly deliberately not look at Adam Sandler even. Right? Don't you dare look back Blue shirt. And I, I was like, should I say something? I was like, no.

That's the opposite of what's supposed to happen here. So I just end up paying my bill and leaving, and I'm like, no matter how much you try to not be weird around something like that, it's not you guys who are changing when you become famous, it's everyone around you changing instead.

[00:16:57] Ed Helms: That's a remarkable insight that you're expressing.

And it's something that dawned on me at a certain point, and I've shared with people close to me at times. There's that old adage like, oh, like someone who gets famous and then everyone, they don't forget

[00:17:09] Jordan Harbinger: what you came, where you came from. Yeah. Or you've

[00:17:11] Ed Helms: changed. What's usually the case is that whoever the person saying that is the one who's changed their.

Perception of you. That's interesting. Yeah. Like, Hey, you didn't ask me

[00:17:22] Jordan Harbinger: for money before the hangover. I don't

[00:17:24] Ed Helms: know if I'm the one that's changed.

[00:17:25] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:17:25] Ed Helms: And I find that such a fascinating lesson in projection, like how we perceive each other and what we project onto each other. And to look at your friend who's become famous and is now maybe has more boundaries, but still your friend.

Yeah. But then to look at them and say like, you've changed when actually you are the one nervous around them. Yeah.

[00:17:45] Jordan Harbinger: That's interesting.

[00:17:46] Ed Helms: And you've become nervous, but you're projecting that change onto them. I don't know. Yeah.

[00:17:51] Jordan Harbinger: That would be kind of unpleasant, right? 'cause there's this unspoken. Are you being weird?

Am I being weird? Is it weird at all? Do you feel that? Because I think I feel that, but I'm not sure. I feel that. Then you're like, ah, can we just play golf? I thought we were just gonna hang out like we did for the last 40 years of my life. Yeah, right.

[00:18:04] Ed Helms: What happened? What? Yeah. And then they're just like, you've changed.

Yeah. They're like, no, I haven't. No, I just want to hang out. Yeah. You've changed. Yeah. You're so different. If you haven't changed, why am I so uncomfortable? Because you've

[00:18:16] Jordan Harbinger: changed. Exactly. That's a good, yeah. Why am I so uncomfortable? There's this funny moment where, I guess it was daily show days where you weren't able to get into a convention 'cause you forgot your ID or something like that.

Right? But then you had to use the billboard to get in, and I thought that was so ironic because if you're famous enough that you had a billboard facing the parking lot to get in and you just went, is this enough of an identification? Yeah. And then guy was like, sure thing. But you weren't famous enough for that guy to be like, oh, it's you.

So you're like in that little midway point where it's, okay, fine. You're the guy on the billboard. Yeah, but I don't recognize you. That was the daily show. Yeah. Yeah. It's really funny that there's that between level. I wonder if at that point, were you like one day. I won't need to point to the billboard.

You'll just remember your idea at that point. But, uh,

[00:18:56] Ed Helms: yeah, I don't know. I honestly thought a bunch of those years on the Daily Show, I was like, this is it. This is all I've ever wanted to do and this is the pinnacle.

[00:19:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:19:06] Ed Helms: And then at a certain point I was like, I'm 30 years old, I need to start thinking what's next.

Sure.

[00:19:11] Jordan Harbinger: What's something you used to believe about success or fulfillment that you've let go

[00:19:16] Ed Helms: of, let's see, success or fulfillment? I think the obvious answer that is true is that I wanted so badly to be on Saturday Night Live for the Daily Show, and I prepared relentlessly and it was, it's why I moved to New York.

It's why I. Started doing standup comedy and started doing improv comedy. It's why I joined the community and surrounded myself with the friends that I had. And I just loved that. And I had this goal, and then I got on the Daily Show, and I had never thought beyond that horizon. Mm-hmm. And I thought somewhere in the back of my head, I was like, once I get on the Daily Show, everything falls into place.

Sure. Like everyone's career except for the Guy Z. Well, that doesn't happen. Yeah. Like my friend did on

[00:20:05] Jordan Harbinger: Saturday Night Live, and then one season later he was like, that was it, man. Uh,

[00:20:09] Ed Helms: yeah. You just think you're gonna thrive. Yeah. And I guess it was the realization that the work never ends. That was a valuable lesson because especially at that time, to learn on one of my first major gigs because I.

Well, the office happened and then the hangover. I still have to hustle. I gotta keep hustling. That helped you though, right? Yeah, for sure. Oh, for sure. From that point forward, I didn't assume that everything was gonna be fine whenever I crossed a threshold, 'cause of course my next goal became like, oh, I want to get on a TV show where I can act instead of the Daily Show where I'm kind of this OneNote thing.

Now I have to show the world, like I can act. The office gave me that opportunity, but I was already looking ahead again, but not in a desperate, starving hungry way. Just in a way of like, I have to be thinking about my next moves as a responsible adult and as someone with career aspirations. So then it was like movie pursuit.

[00:21:08] Jordan Harbinger: You are listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Ed Helms. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Acorns. Early April is Financial Literacy Month. The perfect time to teach your kids that money doesn't just fall from the sky or your wallets. We've been using Acorns early with Jaden and it's brilliant.

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So come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course@sixminutenetworking.com. All right, now back to Ed Helms. The hangover takes off, right? I assume you get scripts for other comedies, but do you get like. Here's a serious role and your agent's like, Hey man, do you want to be more like a serious actor in this one?

Like Bradley Cooper, right? He's like, you got limitless. That's not a comedy. Do you get those and go, do I stick with comedy or go serious in this one? And how do you make those decisions? It's gotta be hard. I wasn't getting like the serious offers. I'm surprised that I thought everybody would come after you for everything, or your agent just threw those in the trash.

Maybe me, maybe. Let's be realistic.

[00:24:12] Ed Helms: Um, it's not entirely true. I definitely had some stuff crossed my desk that was maybe a little more serious or dramatic, but I was just very focused on comedy. Probably to a fault for a while. I just was like, this is what I've always wanted to do and I just wanna be in these big funny.

Crazy movies. And looking back, honestly, I wish I had expanded my repertoire a little more earlier on. I've changed things up a little bit. Even at that time I was doing movies like Jeff Who Lives at Home, which was a DeLoss Brothers movies. That's funny, but very real and a little bit dark. And then Cedar Rapids is another one that, again, it's a comedy, but it's dramatic.

But I didn't go like full drama. That's something I wish I had done earlier on. I'm curious why it's not like it didn't work out for you because I think it would've opened up more possibilities over time. Now I'm definitely more open to those kinds of roles, and I just did one that that's like super dark and I'm excited about it and it was fun.

I'm just enjoying. Variety of challenges now, I'll still always love comedy. There's nothing like just trying to come up with the best bit on a movie set. It's so fun. The pressure is so high, everybody's ah, this joke isn't working. Like, what do we do? What do we do? And you just like, your body just does it and you start figuring stuff out.

And I love that. I love that process. I love the collaboration, but there's something about drama and the intensity of certain moments and role. I just am drawn to that.

[00:25:47] Jordan Harbinger: I can understand that you joined the office after it already built some momentum. What was the biggest challenge in stepping into that dynamic?

Because speaking of pressure, right? Like you're getting in there and it's alright, don't screw this up 'cause this show's already funny. If it's not funny when you're there, that one's on you pal.

[00:26:01] Ed Helms: Yeah, I had just done a pilot for NBC before that, that had gone really, really well. And it was a multi-camera pilot.

So it's one of those ones with a big studio audience. I see. And that was terrifying because I had never done anything like that before. But like I said, it went really well. And so at the end of the day it was just exhilarating and incredibly fun and also a huge confidence builder. So I went into the office, I already knew Steve Carell 'cause he had worked on the Daily Show, not for long, but we had overlapped on the Daily Show.

I had also done a little bit part in Evan Almighty, so I had that comfort. And then I also wasn't thrown to the wolves. I was invited in by Greg Daniels to have a conversation about it. They didn't offer me a part, they just were like, Hey, we have this idea for this character who's like a Connecticut yacht club kid, went to Cornell and we just wanted to talk to you about it and see if it resonates.

And I was like, yes, that sounds hilarious. And we start pitching and just having a conversation. So I felt very brought in and kind of part of the process from the get go in a way that I think is extremely rare and was very lucky for me. And Greg Daniels had also seen a little short movie I had done about a zombie who, it was like a little documentary about a zombie trying to go on the dating scene.

And of course, as a zombie, like everyone's grossed out by him. So he is really struggling on the dating scene. And it was a very funny like little. Five, 10 minutes short film, and we really committed to the zombie makeup, so it looked really good. But it's him like talking to camera, like, yeah. I don't know.

It's just hard. The minute they see me or smell me like they're grossed out. They're

[00:27:48] Jordan Harbinger: already checked out. Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:49] Ed Helms: It's like, I don't, it's like, how do I even get like anywhere with these people? So he liked that because it had a very officey kind of vibe. Yeah. And then the cast was so warm, and I'll never forget, like John and Rashida and I were both new at the time, so we were kind of buddies.

Oh yeah.

[00:28:07] Jordan Harbinger: And

[00:28:07] Ed Helms: we were in this Stanford branch. I always said to John, you guys were just like this basket for Rashida and me and you just welcomed us in. There was no like, let's see what these guys can do. Ah, nice. Let's see these guys screw up our show. It was just like, come on,

[00:28:22] Jordan Harbinger: play with us. Oh, that's great.

The best. I love from an acting standpoint, I think one of the funniest parts for me is a disconnect from how you're really feeling. Your appearance on the outside is always almost trying not quite in sync with your. Emotional status, your real emotional. Does it make sense at all? Sure. The characters, yeah.

Yeah, of course. That's fine. And find its way into these different bits, like where you punch the wall and says, was that overreact? Yeah. Yeah. Like, all right, he's fine. Nope. He just smashed the wall. And it's just like there's this tension inside your character from that. I think it's really funny. Yeah,

[00:28:51] Ed Helms: that came very naturally because I grew up in the south and people punch balls.

Very few people are presenting a transparent version of themselves. In the south. There's very much a sort of facade. People, not just in the south. This is obviously we're in Hollywood

[00:29:07] Jordan Harbinger: right

[00:29:07] Ed Helms: now. I, I know, right? This is humanity. What it means to be human is to struggle with how we present ourselves, with how we really feel.

The office writers just got that so well, I've always understood that that tension between who we present and who we want to be and who we hope we are, that's such a funny battle within us.

[00:29:27] Jordan Harbinger: Did you ever, disagree might be a strong word, but disagree with the writers or the producers about where Andy's character was headed.

Is there ever any like, oh really that's gonna happen? Or do you not even have the

[00:29:38] Ed Helms: sort of green light to do that? I'll be delicate, but there were aspects of Andy's story that I, uh, really struggled with. Yeah. Especially after years of building a character and committing your life to this thing. I think all of us on that show, one of the things that was so special about it was how much we loved our characters, and then certain scripts come in and you're like, this just doesn't feel like this character.

And we all felt pretty. Possessive, or not possessive, but just a lot of ownership and affection for our characters. And so there were a lot of times where us as a cast would push back with writers or producers like, I don't think Andy would do this. And a lot of times that was a very fruitful conversation.

There were times though that I just felt like all this work I'd put into redeeming Andy who's sort of on paper was a pretty hard to like guy, but I'd really tried to find heart a deep goodness in him, and it was his internal battle anyway. I felt like at a certain point that was not factoring in to things and it was tough.

There were some tough moments.

[00:30:41] Jordan Harbinger: I can imagine that I get what you mean about being possessive over your character. I can see why you would be like, this is a sort of a part of. My identity, right? And on the show it is my identity. And it's like if you built a really nice radio controlled car and someone's like, cool, I'm gonna drive this as fast as I can into that wall over there, and you're like, no, no, no, that's not what it's for.

The paint job is immaculate. Yeah, there's, they're supposed to show this thing off, but they're like,

[00:31:03] Ed Helms: but it will be cool. It's gonna be cool though though. It's gonna be great. That's actually kind of a good analogy because there's also, from a high altitude standpoint, I think there's value in blowing things up.

There's value in destroying something to rebuild it in a narrative context. And so I won't presume that I understood all the choices that were made, and I held no grudges. I truly look back on that time with nothing but just like epic, epic. Thanks and gratitude and like it was such a joyful time.

[00:31:34] Jordan Harbinger: I bet.

[00:31:35] Ed Helms: But yeah, there were some narrative moments where I was like,

[00:31:37] Jordan Harbinger: what? Yeah, I can believe it. Is there any sort of behind the scenes moment from the office that's never made it into an interview before? As you can tell, my YouTube team told me to ask you that one. Uh, get a

[00:31:48] Ed Helms: viral moment, Jordan. Let's see. I'm sure there's tons.

This one you'll never see anywhere. But there were some really funny jam sessions off camera between me and Creed 'cause he's a great musician. Guitar. I didn't Guitar player. Oh yeah. He was in a band in the seventies. Big rock band. Really? Okay. Yeah. Forget the name of the band. It's killing, how am I forgetting?

But they had a big hit. The chorus is uh nah, nah, na na na. For two days. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, creed was in that band. So anyway, he's a great guitar player and I'm banjo guitar player and we would just hang out and jam. And then Zach Woods joined the cast. Guess what, Zach Woods. Blaze Trumpet. No kidding. Jazz trumpet.

And he just brings it with him. And we were like, Zach, you gotta bring your trumpet. And we had some banjo guitar trumpet jams. That's pretty fun. It's gotta be

[00:32:36] Jordan Harbinger: a good way to blow off steam.

[00:32:37] Ed Helms: How in character is that?

[00:32:39] Music (2): Yeah, for

[00:32:40] Ed Helms: Creed. For Creed. Andy and Zach, like it was pretty great sound. Guys, can you tell them we're trying to work over here?

Yeah. This was like out in our trailers and stuff. But the other thing I I'll tell you is the Christmas episode, I think people have talked about this a lot, the Christmas episode where Steve's dressed as Santa Claus and Kevin's sitting at his lab and Steve is like suffering. And the way that he's performing that.

It has all of us laughing so hard and I'm in the background of a shot and I'm almost positive it's in the show where I keep ducking behind a plant because I'm laughing so hard. And there are so many instances where I just couldn't look at them because they were being so funny. Even if you're off camera, but you're talking, you're in a dialogue with someone, you can't break and laugh at them 'cause then you'll ruin their shit.

Sure, sure. So I had developed this practice where when I had scenes with Steve, a lot of the time I would look at his chin or his ear because I couldn't look into those eyes.

[00:33:38] Music (2): No kidding. They would

[00:33:38] Ed Helms: destroy me and just make me laugh too hard. But this Christmas episode, I definitely am like, I think I'm over in the corner with Mindy and she's skirting around and we're both trying to hide.

[00:33:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It had to be a fun set to be on in the Hangover. I heard that tooth really. Came out or comes out? How was that possible? I guess it's probably common and I just

[00:34:00] Ed Helms: don't know this. Yeah, it's not that crazy of a story. I was born without that tooth, so I had the baby tooth, but when it fell out, there was no adult tooth.

So I had a flipper, a retainer with a fake tooth on it. I thought you

[00:34:12] Jordan Harbinger: meant like a little arm that waves around, like that's freaking weird, man. So I also had a

[00:34:17] Ed Helms: flipper. No, but it was just a tooth I could pop out on a retainer. Oh, I see. And those had a little tooth on the front that would go right in there.

Now

[00:34:24] Jordan Harbinger: you have something else. Correct.

[00:34:25] Ed Helms: So then I turned over. I like around 17, I got an implant. But an implant is just like a nut that is screwed into your bone. Whoa. And they put a little post into the implant, which they then put the tooth on top of. So we're in testing, doing like wardrobe testing and camera tests for the hangover.

And Todd's like, we gotta figure out how to get rid of your tooth. So we did some camera tests, blacking it out and these other things, and nothing looked good. Now you could probably do it digitally, like, yeah, maybe no problem. We didn't have that then. So I said, this is an implant. Let me go talk to my dentist.

And so he is like, go to my guy. I got a guy, I got the best guy here in Beverly Hills. And I was like, oh, okay. If you're gonna pay for it, I'll go to the guy in Beverly Hills. So, so I go to this dentist and he's like, yes, we can take the tooth off the post, unscrew the post out of the implant and it will look like you have no tooth there.

And we just have to like keep your gum healthy throughout productions. So that's what we did. And he then made me a couple of flippers that I could use for the shots where I have a tooth. I see. So I was able to pop that tooth in and out at Will. And I also was shooting the office simultaneously and I didn't tell them that I had taken my tooth out.

Yeah. But it affected my speech a little bit. We got a little air outlet, like I couldn't move my tongue the same way, so I sounded just a tiny bit off. But fortunately, one of the episodes that I did while I had the fake tooth was where Andy and Oscar are on a business trip and Andy gets trashed and calls Angela and has some like drunk dials.

But anyway, I was drunk. The speech thing didn't really matter.

[00:36:09] Jordan Harbinger: I so ridiculous. It's so funny. Yeah. The scenes with this tiger, that was real, right? The tiger's real. Yeah. How do you do that safely?

[00:36:17] Ed Helms: I honestly can't say for sure. It was very, no, it's, oh man. I remember the scene where we're pushing the car with the tiger in it, and it's nighttime, so the tigers are on a truck in the production area.

They're like in these big cages on the back of a truck, and we're waiting for night to start shooting. As the sun's going down, this is when tigers hunt.

[00:36:45] Music (2): Oh no. And

[00:36:45] Ed Helms: this is when their like energy comes up and so the sun's going down. The Santa Ana's start blowing. This is the winds spook and like the trees are going and all the grass is moving and the tigers are pacing in.

There's two or three tigers that we used for the, and they're just pacing in their cages and we're like, what the hell's going on? You're not gonna open the cages. Yeah. And we get all these safety lectures about how to like, never turn your back on a tiger because that's when they pounce. It's like as long as, I dunno if you've seen the India, the people that would hunt tigers had masks on the face on the back of their head.

That's, and that was to confuse the tiger because they won't pounce if they think you're looking at them. Good to know, I suppose. I don't know. Anyway, it was always nuts. There was like a leash with a cable, a. I always was looking at that leash, like, really this 800 pound cat can't just snap that thing in a second.

Yeah. Or pull the person who's holding it. Yeah, exactly. And then we're doing all those crazy photos in the hotel room, and I remember Bradley's like, can I feed it? And I was like, buddy, what are you? And he's like, no, no, come on. I don't want to feed like they're feeding it. Why can't I feed it? And they're like, sure, just hold the bottle like this.

And so there's pictures in the closing credits of Bradley feeding the cat. Oh my God.

[00:38:02] Jordan Harbinger: And he's really doing it. Yeah. I would be very nervous around something like that because even if there's a guy with like a giant cannon nearby to sedate, the tiger doesn't really understand that. Tiger's just like, I'm hungry.

These guys look like they are tasty. I can smell 'em and they're right in front of me. You can't train cats. Siegfried and Roy have taught us this. They lived with that tiger. And then that was the end. Yes. Sadly. So ridiculous. Yes. You also got super sick during the shooting of one of the hangovers. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I remember Bradley Cooper said, we all ate at the same place. I don't understand why you're the one that got sick.

[00:38:35] Ed Helms: He has this theory that I used one of the sauces or something. It's like week one in Bangkok and this is Hangover two and we're so excited to be there. And the first ad this guy JP, is like, there's this awesome restaurant.

It's like a hole in the wall. Let's all go out and we're all just eager for adventure, eager to see the city and do whatever. And like jps, like this boss figure on the set, he's our first ad, he's looking out for everybody. And then we're like, yeah, sure, let's go. We all go out and it's basically Bangkok street food and we go back and I just explode.

That's the only way to describe it, is that a bomb went off inside of me and that every orifice was where the explosion went. Oh man. I remember I was so. Sick. It's this weird thing like when you're in a foreign country and you are really sick, your mind just starts going to really dark places. Sure. And I was like, I'm gonna die and I'm thousands of miles from my family and people that love me and I'm definitely gonna die.

And I called JP and I was like, I am so sick. I think I need to go to the hospital. And he is like, your pickup is 6:00 AM tomorrow to go to set,

[00:39:51] Jordan Harbinger: right? Yeah. To go

[00:39:51] Ed Helms: to work. Not for the hospital. Yeah. And so we'll see you then. Okay. And it just was like, I. That's right. I'm here to work. I have a job to do.

[00:40:00] Music (2): Yeah.

[00:40:01] Ed Helms: And like this production that costs like a million dollars a day. Yeah. Can't just pause 'cause I have a tummy ache or whatever. And that like whips me back into shape and I wind up going on some crazy intense, I dunno if it was an antibiotic or whatever. And the next day we're shooting this scene where Cassavetes, he's showing us the video of the riot.

We started the night before on his iPhone and we're shooting the riot. Oh my God. So it's the riot scene. Yeah. And I'm leading the riot, so I'm shirtless like F the boys. And there's fires. It's a pyrotechnics everywhere and crowds all around. And we're also in soy cowboy, which is the red light district of Bangkok.

And it is grimy. It is not like a chill part of town. And yet I'm still in between every take. I'm curled up on the sidewalk on a blanket of soy cowboy, ugh. And, and with Bradley and Zach like feeding me little sips of water or Sprite and like gently patting me. And I will say I never felt more supported and.

Bonded like we went through so much together. That was one of the things that I was like, I would love these guys forever.

[00:41:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:41:13] Ed Helms: Like they really took care of me. And then I would just get this adrenaline rush every time I had to stand up and do a take. And I got the greatest compliment of my entire acting career ever.

The next day, which is when Larry, the DP was talking about something that we had shot the day before. He was like laughing about it, and I was like, almost comatose with food poisoning that day. And he was like, really? Yeah. Wow. You sold it, dude. Yeah. And I was like, yes.

[00:41:37] Jordan Harbinger: That's the hardest I've ever acted. I bet.

Meanwhile, there's B roll of you just on this blanket, on the dirtiest street in Bangkok. Exactly. And petted by Bradley Cooper and fed like a tiger out of a bottle.

[00:41:48] Ed Helms: But if he's been murdered by Crystal meth tweakers,

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It's that important that you support those who support the show. All right. Now for the rest of my conversation with Ed Helms, the set had so much craziness and it, I think it was you who told this story in some ancient article where there's Mercedes cars and one of 'em got stolen. And then you, oh my God, I forgot about that.

Yeah. Yeah. What was that all about? This is like actually ridiculous.

[00:45:15] Ed Helms: Oh yeah. So that beautiful Mercedes from the first hangover, we're in Vegas and we're shooting, the car just goes missing. We have three or four of those Mercedes. 'cause you see it in various states of distress. It's getting beat up throughout the movie.

In order to do that in movies, you have four cars.

[00:45:35] Jordan Harbinger: I didn't know that. Why can't they just damage one car? Why they need four? Because

[00:45:39] Ed Helms: you have to shoot out of sequence.

[00:45:40] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, of course. And you can't

[00:45:41] Ed Helms: have a car dictating the sequence of your production. That makes sense. That's a much bigger expense. And also if you need to reshoot something or change something or fix something.

And it's the same with wardrobe. When you see people's clothes get more and more tattered over time, you're actually looking at eight sets of clothes. It's one of many of the sort of like beautifully creative things that you just never know about movies. Yeah.

[00:46:03] Jordan Harbinger: Otherwise you end up with that Starbucks Cup and Game of Thrones where they're like, that's not supposed to be like that.

Exactly. Yeah. How cool is that?

[00:46:09] Ed Helms: But yeah, one of those production cars of the Mercedes, and I think it was one of the ones that was a little beat up. Got stolen and the production is freaking out. Yeah, of course. What are we gonna do? We still have to shoot this thing and they put like an A PB out on it and they catch the guy who stole the car and there was like crack in the front seat and all this stuff.

And I, he presumably just wanted to probably sell it for drug money or something, I don't know. But so the good news is we got the car. The bad news is it's lightly dusted

[00:46:41] Jordan Harbinger: with crack. However, the bad news is we gotta clean it. It's gonna be a while. The second bit of good news is it was already supposed to look like li beaters.

So Yeah. So once we get the crack out of it and the used needles, it's back in action. Oh gosh. And we don't have to worry about the dents. When you guys get like a new script for, let's say, the hangover of the office, are you as excited almost as the fans to see what happens next with your characters? Oh, a hundred percent.

Yeah,

[00:47:04] Ed Helms: I bet. Yeah. Yeah. Every office table read, I was so giddy. It was like going to a movie you're excited for every time. And then also those table reads, the production days are long and they're hard. And the table read was like this fun little party. Yeah. Like we get in the middle of the day. It was once a week, so it would be like on a Tuesday or something at 10:00 AM It's also one of the rare moments when the entire production team and cast and writers are in the same space.

Oh, I see. I didn't realize that. And so it's the office family. And then of course you have some network people there too, and that can be good or bad. And the office case, what have they been doing

[00:47:38] Jordan Harbinger: there? Why is this

[00:47:38] Ed Helms: person in there? Well, they're usually there to give some notes or a few thoughts or just so they're aware of what's happening creatively on the show.

And. Later on in the run of the show, of course they weren't giving notes like to Greg Daniels because he was like, sure God status. But everybody's together. So like you might be good buddies with someone on the crew or someone in the writer's room, but you don't get to see them that much during normal production.

But then everybody's together for those things, and it's just, the energy was always so great. You get to hear these jokes for the first time. Yeah,

[00:48:08] Jordan Harbinger: yeah. And

[00:48:08] Ed Helms: you're kind of like nervous, like, how much am I in this episode? Do I have good jokes? Am I gonna sell them? Those were just incredibly fun. The hangover scripts would come, like the second and third hangover scripts.

You just get those through your agent, right? Yeah. And then you read those on your own. But still, it was the same thing of, oh my God, what are we in for?

[00:48:27] Jordan Harbinger: I can imagine you're like, I've gotta text Bradley Cooper and Zach and be like, holy shit, have you seen this joke? This is gonna be ridiculous. Yeah, absolutely.

And then they're like, oh, I haven't gotten there yet. Yeah, I'm in Bermuda. Don't spoil it. Has your definition of good work changed over time? What matters to you now that didn't before?

[00:48:45] Ed Helms: That's an interesting question. I think it's when you're starting out, you're less picky because everything's new and you're just eager to work and your criteria are very different.

Now that I have so much work under my belt, I have a body of work, but I also have a ton of experience and I kind of know the types of people that I'm going to work well with or the types of people that I want to work with. So that's gonna be a much bigger part of the evaluation of something now than it ever was before.

Early on, you still wanna work with great people, so you're, but you're just

[00:49:17] Jordan Harbinger: happy to be there. Yeah. But you're

[00:49:18] Ed Helms: also just like, you want me to do this? Yeah, sure. I'll be there. And also, I have a family now, and so my life needs are so different. And if I get a script that's like, this is Steven Spielberg, it's you and so and so in Antarctica for five months.

[00:49:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:49:37] Ed Helms: I'm like, no.

[00:49:38] Jordan Harbinger: Well, it's still Spielberg though. But I know.

[00:49:40] Ed Helms: No, but like, I'm not gonna be in a place where I'm inaccessible to my family. Sure. During formative years of my kids' lives. How old are they? They're young.

[00:49:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I've got a 3-year-old and a five-year-old. Yeah. When they're young like that. When I'm going for one night, this trip, my son was like.

Oh, why is it such a long time? I know. And I'm like, oh, it's not a long time. My wife's not gonna miss me. I'm gone for one day. But my son's like, but I wanted to build Legos tonight. Yeah. And it can't wait. And I'm like, I don't remember what those feelings are like. And they're not gonna be that way forever.

Right. Exactly. They're 13. They're gonna be like, yeah, you're gonna Antarctica. Oh, only five months. Yeah, yeah. Get outta here. Stay for six. Right. Leave the car keys on the kitchen island on your way out.

[00:50:16] Ed Helms: Yeah. I'm always like, they need me. This is for them. I want to be there for them to like raise them and give them the pillar of a parent fit.

Good for you. But also, I'm like, I can't handle being apart. I can't handle it like I'm too mushy to like be apart from the whole family. It's a good crew. We got a good crew.

[00:50:34] Jordan Harbinger: Everybody who is let's say in their fifties or sixties or something like that, when I say, oh, my agent wants me to write a book, or This huge potential project came up, but it's gonna be this.

And it's a lot of time away from the kids. All the guys with kids are like, you can work later. You can work later. Work's Always gonna be there. Your kids are not always gonna be there. And with few exceptions, no one has said just do it. And they'll understand the guys that have said that a lot of them are divorced can't help but think that there's a correlation there.

Or I say, really? Or is that like a lie? You're telling yourself to justify working too much and being away from your kids. And often like the next day they'll go, dude couldn't sleep at all last night. Totally think you're right about that. And I'm like, yeah, that's the verdict man. Work will always be there.

[00:51:17] Ed Helms: It's funny because in my twenties, or I should say my early thirties when I was really like firing on all cylinders, there were times between the hangover in the office, those overlapped Oh my. I was doing it at the same time. The office had really graciously agreed to cross board my scene so that I was working Monday and Tuesday of the week and then the hangover shot Wednesday through Sunday.

[00:51:40] Jordan Harbinger: That's brutal. That's

[00:51:41] Ed Helms: it's completely insane. And there were a couple of nights where I chartered my own flight from Vegas to Van Nuys. After a night shoot in Las Vegas to go straight to the Van Nuys airport, which is just minutes away from the office. And I would go shoot all night in Las Vegas, get on a plane that I paid for chartered to land in Van Nuys at five 30 in the morning so I could make my 6:00 AM call time at the office, work all day, work all the next day because I'm cross boarded, meaning I don't have any downtime.

They've squeezed all my stuff in my eyes are dry, just thinking about it. And then get back on a flight, like a Southwest flight from Burbank to Vegas that evening and then work all the next week. And that was probably four or five weeks in a row.

[00:52:25] Jordan Harbinger: Geez. That give you gray hair, man. Yeah, it's nuts.

[00:52:27] Ed Helms: But it was.

So fun. I was having the time of my life and I was so exhilarated and thrilled to be a part of these things. I loved everyone I was working with. I couldn't have been more excited and like grateful and it was just, it was incredibly fun. Now, what I was saying at that time, I would think often, I want a family.

I want a family. How is this gonna work? And I just thought I was like. Okay. I'm gonna be like a traveling dad.

[00:52:55] Music (2): Yeah.

[00:52:55] Ed Helms: I'm gonna be a guy who's gone for chunks, but that's gonna be okay. Our family's gonna manage that and we're gonna be a family that can figure that out. And I'm never gonna not do awesome movies.

This is incredible. I was so naive.

[00:53:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:53:08] Ed Helms: I truly was so naive. Even before I had kids, I was starting to realize the pace and the pattern of life I really wanted to carve out for myself and the value that I was giving to some of my hobbies, honestly, not RC cars. Yeah. But music and some other things that I was just deriving tremendous pleasure from.

Not just pleasure, but identity. Sure. Those were things that were starting to feel important. And my wife, I don't wanna be apart from this incredible person. Yeah. For huge stretches. What was I thinking? And so. It's just evolved a lot over time.

[00:53:41] Jordan Harbinger: The wife is always the sneak preview of, is this gonna work?

Because if she's like, so I see you a few times a month, is it always gonna be like this? Yeah. And you're like, oh, this is when I find out she doesn't like being alone for three weeks, a month, maybe should I do something about this? And she's like, you want me to have your kids with you, and are you gonna help with that at all?

Uhhuh, or you're like, uh, I'm starting to take the hint.

[00:54:03] Ed Helms: Yeah. Movies are very intoxicating because it's so all consuming. It's very easy to detach from a lot of things in your life, whether they're difficult or good. Also, as an A DHD person, I thrive in hyper focus. So when I get into that mindset, it's like I'm in go mode and it's thrilling, but there's a cost.

[00:54:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You can't afford to put that cost onto your kids. Yeah. It just doesn't work. We gotta do the book stuff. Otherwise the publicist is gonna be like, yeah, Jordan, never again. Yeah. But thanks for having us. This is why I'm here. Yeah. Come on. So this book, snafu, I read it, I did the audio book. Awesome. And it was great 'cause you read it and that makes it even more fun.

There are a lot of uncomfortably close calls where, for example, the nuclear bomb that got dropped on. Can you tell us about this? Because like, that seems like a thing that shouldn't have happened. Uh yep. It didn't have its nuclear core

[00:54:58] Ed Helms: in it. Sure. But, but it was dropped in North Carolina by accident basically on a training mission.

It landed on this guy's property. Fortunately, no one was killed. There were some injuries, but it was killed. And the guy whose property it landed on was a World War II vet, and he was like, you know what? I get it. I'm a vet. I get it. These things happen and you guys are gonna take care of me. Well, surprise, surprise.

The government didn't take care of, that's shameful of boned him. So he got pissed. Yeah. But, but wound up getting a, I think, an okay settlement at the end of the day. But that's just one of many examples. This book, every chapter is a crazy snafu that has happened in our history, basically from the fifties.

It's divided up into decades, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, and two thousands, basically two thousands present. And there's 31. Snafus in here, so it's good bathroom reading. Yeah, it's divided nicely. It's

[00:55:53] Jordan Harbinger: good

[00:55:53] Ed Helms: toilet reading. Yeah. You could just kinda sit down and had an open it anywhere and And have fun with it.

Yeah. Lots of great stories.

[00:55:59] Jordan Harbinger: The uplifting message though is that we've always been on the brink of something sort of horrible. Yeah. And maybe you don't know about it, maybe you do, but eh, it's not new. COV seems new because it's new for you, but this guy over here had a deactivated or disarmed nuclear bomb dropped on his house.

Yeah, he's fine.

[00:56:13] Ed Helms: Yeah. I write about that in the introduction, how there is something when you look back at crazy disasters in history or snafus, I. They're weirdly reassuring for that exact reason. We do get through things and obviously I think a lot of people, myself included, feel like we're in a fraught moment right now, and this isn't to say there isn't reason to feel real anxiety and or fear or whatever feelings you're having, but.

From a very high altitude standpoint, there's reassurance in the long view that humanity is. We're just constantly screwing up and constantly falling on our face. And somehow we usually get back up again.

[00:56:53] Jordan Harbinger: Unless you bought one of those kids toys that had uranium in it, in which case you might be Yes.

That was shocking. One of the earlier snafus. Yeah. Some kid toy. Yeah. It's the first

[00:57:00] Ed Helms: one in the book. Yeah. Kid toy that had in the 1950s. Actual uranium in it. Yeah. Guy. The titanium or something. The guy, the guy who, uh, invented the erector set, which was a huge hit. He invented a little nuclear lab for kids to play with.

Sounds awesome. And it had radioactive materials in it. And that's not what you want kids playing with.

[00:57:18] Jordan Harbinger: Generally not. And it's, oh, it's safe if you don't open this forbidden container. Yeah. And every kid's like, get the hammer. I wanna see this glowing stuff. Of course. It's like when your parents go, yeah, we used to break thermometers and dump the mercury around our hand and put it in our mouth and spit it at each other.

Yes. And it's like. Probably shouldn't have done that. Probably shouldn't have done that.

[00:57:34] Ed Helms: Probably shouldn't have. Probably dealing with some consequences

[00:57:36] Jordan Harbinger: still. Yeah. Oh yeah. No wonder you, you have dementia in your 45 Jordan. Yeah, the CIA wanted to wire cats for surveillance. Scientology infiltrated the US government and it's the IRS, which is, that story was nuts.

A lot of close Cold War calls in the book as well. Yes. I really enjoy these snafus. Did you have a, wait, this one can't be real moment in this book. Right? It seems like there's at least more than maybe a handful. I honestly the

[00:58:03] Ed Helms: one you just brought up about trying to train cats. Yeah. To be spies like they tried to implant microphones in their ears because the ears are directional and they're so astute, but then they tried to train them to actually go.

Sit next to someone. Yeah. So that you could spy on what they're saying. And of course that's a debacle and they're really harming cats in the process, which is like grotesque double

[00:58:26] Jordan Harbinger: gross. Yeah.

[00:58:27] Ed Helms: And, and it also is more evidence of why working with tigers on a movie set is terrifying. You can't train cats.

You just can't train 'em. They also did the same thing with pigeons and that's in the book. They tried to put a little harness on pigeons that had surveillance gear. So, so funny. MK Ultra is a wild story that's in here where I basically explain how the CIA in the fifties was trying to figure out if LSD can be used as, uh, mind control.

Serum or a truth serum or just what its potential might be, how can we weaponize that? That's how the military or the CIA is always thinking like, how can we weaponize this? And so they just start drugging people, sex workers that they're spying on, which is very, that's so creepy.

[00:59:12] Jordan Harbinger: The guy's doing that.

When you're explaining this in the book and you're like, yeah, there's a guy behind the wall and there's a sex worker and she's drugging the guy and then they're banging. That guy was probably just, I don't know if this is working, but it's working for me. Exactly. Yeah. That was, come on man. Yes.

[00:59:24] Ed Helms: And the name of that operation.

Yeah, was midnight climax, literally. Come on. That was so unethical. Like just drugging people with these really powerful high doses. Yeah, and then just taking notes. Let's see what happens.

[00:59:37] Jordan Harbinger: And the end result is, hey guys that have an orgasm, like to talk afterwards, like science or like to fall asleep afterwards.

God, what a ridiculous era. The whole thing was. I know you have to run. Do you have a favorite joke? My buddy's been sending me jokes recently and I'm like, oh, I bet Ed Helms has a, a joke off the top. My

[00:59:54] Ed Helms: daughter just told me one that I loved. Okay. What is it? Why did the chicken cross the playground? Oh no.

Why? To get to the other slide. That's not bad. That's pretty good. It's a good kid joke for sure. I I also heard a new take on why did the chicken cross the road? So what's the answer to get to the other side? Yeah. So how have you always thought about that? What does that mean to you? It's just funny, like the chicken crosses the road to get to the other side.

Sure. And it's a funny joke 'cause that's so dumb, right? Because it's dumb. Yeah. I just thought it was a kid joke. Okay, sure. What if the chicken is crossing the road to truly crossover to get hit by a car?

[01:00:33] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, I see. It's

[01:00:33] Ed Helms: suicide.

[01:00:35] Jordan Harbinger: That's dark,

[01:00:36] Ed Helms: right? Geez. But what if that's what the joke always meant? To get to the other side.

Oh man,

[01:00:42] Jordan Harbinger: you've been doing that MK

[01:00:43] Ed Helms: Ultra

[01:00:44] Jordan Harbinger: stuff.

[01:00:45] Ed Helms: Someone was like, that's what the joke really means. I heard that recently. I was like. Wait, what now? It's like one of the most profound jokes ever.

[01:00:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah. Now it's something you gotta meditate on when you get home. Oh yeah. Ed Helms, thank you very much, man.

Thanks for having me. Yeah, super fun. Cheers. Appreciate it. Dive into the intense world of bear knuckle boxing with undefeated champion Bobby Gunn and his biographer state and Bonner as they reveal the gritty realities and rich history of the sport. Raised in the raw and resilient world of the traveler community.

Bobby's journey began in parking lots, fighting for cash at the age of 11 under his father's watchful eye.

[01:01:20] JHS Clip: If you understand where I come from, my culture, my upbringing, all dogs are dogs. They got different breeds of dogs, bulu swallows and their pit bulls. Gypsy traveler people we're pit bulls. My world.

It's a different world. Fighting is is our religion. My grandfather was a champion fighter. My great-grandfather, old black, Bob Williamson was a great athlete. He goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. I was raised around it, formed it to molded by it, and fortunately in my life there was a lot of darkness.

And growing up in this top four world, my brother, my old man, he molded me. I was bred and born to be this person that he made. It was a hard upbringing and he was tough that way. It prepared me. The underground circuit was here before I was here, and it's still thriving. It'll be here when I'm dead and gone.

But there were some fights I was in and I fought people that were bad evil bastards. They tried to do me in. Some people are rotten. I'm a bully slayer. I don't like bullies. I was the king of my world for a long time, and I, I run it and I'm proud and I promise you, you want something going for it. You might not get there fast, but you'll get there.

I promise you'd do it. Please go for it. Don't sit back and don't I wish. I'm gonna do it. Do it. You got one life. You got one name? You got one story. Don't leave the pages black.

[01:02:45] Jordan Harbinger: My God, brother. You can do it. Tune in to uncover the untold stories behind the scars and successes of bear knuckle legend Bobby Gunn on episode 981 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

All things at Helms. Well, many things will be in the show notes@jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. By the way, our newsletter, you guys love this thing. I love writing it.

You love reading it. I love the feedback on it. Jordan harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. It's a practical bit from an episode. It's a two minute read. I invite you to come check it out. Again, Jordan harbinger.com/news. Don't forget about six minute Networking over@sixminutenetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn in this show. It's created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger. Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty. Ian Baird, Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember. We rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting.

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