1124: Your Aunt’s 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday

1124: Your Aunt's 105 — But Is She Dead or Alive? | Feedback Friday

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[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the mote helping me mix together this tableside guacamole of life drama, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's the mortar and pestle. It's the guacamole. Yeah. It's like volcanic

[00:00:19] Jordan Harbinger: ash bowl that has three little legs on it.

[00:00:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That's hilarious. And the servers at the restaurants always make such a production out of it, don't they? They do.

[00:00:26] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, wow. You put the onions in there. I see you. Can we speed this up a bit? I'm hungry. The chips have been on the table for like five minutes.

[00:00:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Get the show on the road, shall we? Yeah.

[00:00:35] Jordan Harbinger: On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from rocket scientists and CEOs, neuroscientists, work correspondents, and astronauts. This week we had my friend David Eagleman back on the show.

Such an interesting guy. We talked about whether or not we'll be able to upload our consciousness, our brains to the internet if we might create MRI technology that could read minds a whole lot more. We're always kind of all over the place. I'm just really interested in the brain. He is one of the world's foremost experts on the brain, so these are always super fun conversations.

You, you really don't wanna miss this one if you're into neuroscience. Futurism from a grounded perspective, and he's just such a great explainer of things you can't miss with this episode. We also had a skeptical Sunday on Feng shui. You know that furniture arranging thing that's supposed to be science, but is really just kind of ancient Chinese interior design.

On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and revisit weird and nostalgic memories from yesteryear. Speaking of which funny story I remembered this week, I wanted to share it with you guys. So years ago when I was living in LA, I was a host on couch surfing.com or couch surfing do com.

Oh yeah, couch

[00:01:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: surfing.com.

[00:01:53] Jordan Harbinger: I do remember that. So for the uninitiated here, this is a website where you could basically say, Hey, I live in San Francisco. I'm willing to host one or two people and I've got a spare bedroom. And people just from all over the world who are young and don't have enough money for a hotel or prefer the couch surfing experience.

They would write you and go, Hey, we're two German girls and we're gonna come visit and can we stay with you? And you're like, yeah, sure. And you look at their profile and there's people that say like, Hey, these people are fun, they're clean, whatever. And I was one of the first 500 members of this website.

And I remember being like, this is the coolest idea ever. And I've used it a bunch. I've had people host with me a bunch. And in LA when I lived in Hollywood, I did it a ton when my roommates were out of town. 'cause it was super fun, you know, 'cause hundreds of people in LA at any given time off of couch surfing.

And I ended up hosting a guy and his sister from Saudi Arabia and they came over and they stayed with me. And one evening we got to talking, which was the whole point of couch surfing. I learned a ton about Saudi and the culture and just. I was like, Hey, can't women drive? She's like, I don't care. I'll drive anyway.

And I'm like, how do you get away with that? Don't the police do anything? She's like, well my dad is a big deal and Jetta, so they let me do it. And I'm like, so it's almost just like a might makes right kind of situation over there. If you're important, you can do whatever you want. And I asked about wearing the, uh, I think it's called a chador, but it's basically what we think of burka is right?

The covering the head to toe thing. And she's like, I threw mine out but I gotta buy one at the airport 'cause I can't roll in without it. And it's just very interesting little cultural notes here. Anyway, one night we all went out to some bars in Hollywood and it was the brother's first time drinking ever.

So it was kind of a big deal. So the gal, she had been touring all over America for like a year. He came to visit her and they met up in LA and these are Muslims, right? So he's like, I might have a beer. I'm like, cool man. Oh, got it. It was like a big, I'm gonna break the covenant with God and have a beer.

So he dressed in this traditional dish, Dasha this. This was a long robe and headscarf with the black rope thing that a lot of men wear in the Middle East. And he did not wanna wear this. He wanted to look. The Hollywood part in Blend In. I was like, trust me man, if you wanna go out and talk to people and have conversations and meet Americans, you need to dress traditionally.

That's gonna get everybody's attention. So we go to my friend's bar 'cause I'm like, nothing's gonna happen here. This is a safe place. I know everybody know security, know the bartenders, know the owners. And of course some a-hole there who, a guy I talked to a million times and was always normal. He's sitting at the bar and he is really drunk and he just starts calling my guest all this racist stuff and being like, you guys are all this.

I was really pissed off and my friend came over to me and he is like, I'm scared I wanna go home. And my friend was already scared to go out looking like an Arab dude and Hollywood. So this basically ruins his night and he felt really scared and he's like, let's go home. I don't want to be here. And this dude was almost in tears.

It was really sad. I was pissed. So as we start to head out, 'cause my friend's insisting to just go home, he wants to change and go somewhere else before we leave. These two jacked Filipino dudes that turned out to be Army guys, they walk up and they're like, don't go anywhere. We're taking care of this.

And they start speaking Arabic to my friend. And then they go back to this dude, the racist guy, and they tore him a new asshole and they were like, cut that shit out. He's welcome here. This guy didn't do anything to you. You can either deal with us or you can get the fuck out. And the bar owner was like, yeah, you can't do that Here.

I will ban you in two seconds. You either apologize or you leave and you're never come back here. Never. You're not doing that in my bar. So we stay and now suddenly everybody in the bar is buying us beers. My friend's like, do I have to drink all these? And I'm like, no dude. Relax. I'll tell him this is your first time drinking and the problem is they're gonna buy you that drink.

So he's like, I'll give it to you. So me and the other guys were just like drinking of these beers. Even this racist dude bought us a drink and he was actually, to his credit, apologized profusely. And when we started talking, it turns out that his best friend's brother had been killed the week before in Afghanistan.

Oh wow. So he was basically drowning his sorrows and got triggered in which Great feedback Friday principle in there. You just never know what quote unquote, insane person is going through. 'cause I remember being like, wow, this guy's been here a zillion times and he's always nice. What is going on? And that's what was going on.

Not that it makes it okay, but now it makes a little more sense than guy who you thought was normally a nice person turns out to be virulent racist. Then another guy at the bar walks up and says, I saw what happened. I'm so sorry. Come to this club tomorrow night. I'm a promoter there and this is like the club in la, at least in Hollywood.

This one he invited us to. So the next night, my new buddy. Wears his usual dish dash. He lends me one of his this night. He's like, oh no, no, I'm definitely wearing it now. He's like, oh, I'm, yeah, no, this is on now. So he lends me one of his, and I wear this thing. It's a little tight,

[00:06:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: but whatever. Hold on, I'm just catching up to this visual.

So you and this Saudi guy Yeah. Are and his sister are? Yeah. Who's about a hundred pounds lighter than me, by the

[00:06:45] Jordan Harbinger: way. I'm filling this thing out, but whatever.

[00:06:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: You look like a maister in Game of Thrones. And he just like, you guys are now hitting the town and you're dressed like a Saudi man. This is incredible.

Okay. That's right. What a picture with my Saudi buddy. What a picture.

[00:06:59] Jordan Harbinger: And the promoter knows what's up and he's like, oh, hey guys, what's up? Welcome in. So we go to this club. And like I said, it's the hottest club in Hollywood at the time. So we're sitting at the promoter's table surrounded by the usual Hollywood types, models, muscle bros outta work actors, some not outta work actors.

Not really my scene, but super funny and an amazing experience. And we see like the guy from the A team movie and the guy from the TV thing and the HBO guy. And then it was just so hilarious that my friends from Saudi Arabia come in and they're like, let's go. Maybe have a beer at a bar. Woo. Like let loose.

And then it's, no, we're going to the hottest club in Hollywood and dumping gray goose all over Instagram models. It's just like we were

[00:07:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: bawling. Yeah. Also, yesterday you were American and today you're That's right. A member of the richest oil producing nation in the, and I'm wearing

[00:07:47] Jordan Harbinger: aviators indoors because that's how you do.

Sure. Honestly, I only remember parts of the rest of the night because we got absolutely obliterated. Yeah,

[00:07:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah. That makes sense.

[00:07:57] Jordan Harbinger: But one interesting detail I do remember about that week, like I said, she didn't wear the burka or the chador or anything while she was in the States, but I learned how some Saudi women handled that.

She kept one in her suitcase for when she lands back home and she had turned out, she gave that to another girl that she stayed with. She never wears it if she doesn't have to. She said, I'm gonna buy one at the airport when I get to Saudi. And I'm like, alright, you sure you can find one? She's like, there's a million places where you can buy this at the airport in Jetta.

She also I thought was particularly interesting. She told me how she met her husband. So you can't just go somewhere and socialize. You're not just like at a university, talk into the boys in your class. That's just not a thing. I guess that happens over there. So they met on Yahoo Messenger of all places.

Granted, this is a like mid Auts, so I don't even know if Yahoo Messenger exists anymore. Anyway, either way, this was also not allowed, or at least is dicey, but they wanted to meet up and you can't just be like, oh, I'm gonna go to my friend's place. And then the guy shows up like, that doesn't work either.

This is a very strict society. So she told me this elaborate plot where the guy flew to her area on business and then went to her dad and said, oh, I heard you're a very esteemed businessman. I'm looking to get married. Do you know any single women between this age and this age who are interested? Or like, I don't know how you do it, but he basically convinced the dad to introduce the.

His daughter, her to him, even though they had already been talking for like eight months on Yahoo. What a weird con. Okay. Isn't that weird? So weird. He basically thought, oh, it's my idea. I met this guy, they were hitting it off. I'm such a great matchmaker. Meanwhile, it's like a whole plot to just manipulate him.

[00:09:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. So they basically had to like con the dad into thinking it was his idea. Yeah. For them to meet and get.

[00:09:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He said, oh, I heard you're well connected. I'm looking for a woman to marry. And the dad was so flattered that he didn't go, huh? How'd you find me? Who told you about me? It was just like, my daughter's single and he just brings the guy home or whatever, or whatever.

This happens and introduces them. And they were kind like, oh, cool. He seems nice. Let's get married. And meanwhile they've been chatting online for like eight months. It's just, it's so funny. So it worked out. Yeah. The other thing that was weird is I was like, Hey, I heard you need your husband's permission to leave the country.

And she's like, that's true. I said, how did you convince him to let you just travel around the US by yourself? She's like, I basically told him I was gonna leave him if he'd said no. So I was like, oh, so you don't have no leverage. You have some. She's like, here's the thing, I'm leaving him anyways. And I was like, oh, okay.

[00:10:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, okay. That's such a weird end to that story. Yeah, she was like,

[00:10:21] Jordan Harbinger: just so you know, I thought it was like true love that they totally, no, I think it just, you know, it's hard to get to know somebody on fricking Yahoo Messenger. And what about the brother? Was he attached or single or what? This took me a while to realize what was going on.

'cause you think, oh, it's a strict society. You don't realize just how strict it is until you start really talking to these folks. So her brother, he was constantly on Skype. Constantly Skype chat and he would constantly have incoming calls at weird hours. And I remember a girl called him and he answered with video and I was like, oh, hi.

And I waved and she like ran off camera. And I said, oh, okay, why you're wearing a tank top and shorts? I don't care. And he's like, this is bad. You can never see her like this. It's very bad for you to see her with her pajamas on. And I just thought, this is so ridiculous. But then I realized nobody knows.

She's calling him, she's calling him from bed. And that's why I was like, why are they calling you at night all the time? And he's like, Hey, if they get caught chatting with a guy, they're in so much trouble. Imagine being a member of a conservative Christian family and they find out you're a cam girl or work at a strip club that's the equivalent of your daughter calling a dude on Skype from Saudi Arabia.

So what I thought was interesting is I go, so what happens? You just meet up with them? And he is like, no. And I said, how do you meet up with them? How do you make anything outta this? He's like, you can't. And I said, how many women have you talked with outside of your family? And he's like, none. Oh man, can you imagine that?

So he's only got these online relationships. He said one time he went to someone's house with a bunch of women and he stayed outside and he saw the girl at the door. I. She said like goodbye to him and that was his contact with a woman.

[00:12:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: So strange.

[00:12:08] Jordan Harbinger: It's so bizarre. So just imagine how overwhelmed this guy was when girls at a club who are half drunk are sitting on his lap.

You're so cute. And you're fancy robe. Zero to a hundred with that. Zero to a thousand with a girl. Yeah. So it's a girl who guest starred on Pretty Little Liars on one side and he's got a magnum of Gray Goose on the other.

[00:12:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:12:29] Jordan Harbinger: Wearing

[00:12:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: his traditional

[00:12:30] Jordan Harbinger: outfit, right. Is the funniest part of that. I will never wash this.

Had a girl's, it's got glitter on it. The whole trip was just peak couch surfing to be getting hammered in your twenties at an exclusive club in Hollywood with some Arab dude and his sister from Saudi Arabia while we're both wearing traditional garb, they for sure never forgot their week in the United States.

Alright, Gabe, what's the first thing outta the mailbag?

[00:12:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my great aunt Julia has reached the incredible age of 105 years old. Dude, that is so raw. That is so old. I mean that Congratulations. I know one person who's over a hundred, but he's in rough shape and we don't kick it. Imagine having an 105 year old person in your family.

So cool. She lives independently in an apartment in New York. While my mom, aunt and I live in the uk, she's still sharp, but profoundly deaf. The last time I saw her, she chatted away about all sorts of things, was energized by politics, and always had a lot to say. Over the last few years, we've kept in touch with Julia through her son Joe.

Due to our loss of hearing. It's a really important relationship. Julia's sister, my grandmother passed away in Italy during COVI, which was heartbreaking and reignited the importance of keeping in touch with Julia. I. In recent months though, our correspondence with Joe Ground to a halt. We sent Julia Flowers on our 105th birthday, but didn't get a response.

We reached out to Joe and were blanked. Hmm. After much internet research, I found out through his employer's website that Joe had passed away. We hadn't been told, even though he has children who could have easily contacted us, we all started to panic about who was looking after Julia and how she was coping.

I found out where Joe's funeral was and wrote a message on the funeral home's Memorial Page. Joe's daughter, Monica saw it, but she didn't respond. My aunt was eventually able to get an email address for one of Julia's neighbors, and the neighbor sent us a very distressing message. She said that Julia had come to see them shortly after Joe's death, crossing a busy road on her own to get there.

To say that Monica was gonna put her into a home that she didn't want to go to. Monica lives 300 miles away from the home, so she would be unlikely to visit. Once Julie had moved to this home, the neighbors asked Monica where she was so they could visit, but Monica refused to tell them, saying quote, she had been through enough and it would stir things up too much for them to visit.

That makes me angry. There was clearly some bad blood there. The neighbor said that Joe had established three people as power of attorney over Julia before Monica, and they weren't sure why she was able to do this.

[00:15:08] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. What's this woman's deal? This is so odd. Did Julia do something to her? Does she just love having control over this woman?

Which is scary to think about. What's weird is if you wanna move somebody to a home, you usually move them to a home near you, not a home near where they used to live that you don't live near. That's really

[00:15:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: sus. Good point. Also, you would think that she would be thrilled that people want to visit Julia considering that she lives so far away, that should make her life easier, right?

It takes the burden off of her. If she doesn't wanna spend time with Julia, what does she have to gain by keeping her hidden away? I don't get it.

[00:15:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. This is very odd. She clearly doesn't actually like her slash hates her. Maybe she put her in a really depressing nursing home that's cheap and she didn't want anyone finding out and yelling at her to put her in her nicer one or bring her home or something like that.

There's something going on here. I.

[00:15:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or Julia knows something else about Monica that Monica doesn't want people finding out.

[00:15:58] Jordan Harbinger: Bingo. Yeah, I think so. Or, and I hate to say this because it's so depressing and cynical, but in cases like this, you always gotta wonder who stands to benefit financially. Does Julia have assets?

Is Monica isolating her so she can get her hands on them? Has she already gotten her hands on them and she's just hoping Julia passes away and can't do anything about it? Those are really the only rational explanations I can come up with right now. Otherwise, Monica is just a jealous controlling, see you next Tuesday.

[00:16:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: We've obviously tried to contact Monica. We've even been texting Joe's phone and we can see that the messages have been delivered after a couple of weeks. Monica replied to one of my messages saying, Joe is dead. Which clearly she knew. We knew, right? So

[00:16:40] Jordan Harbinger: Monica has Joe's phone and she's keeping it activated so she can read his messages.

What the heck? Apparently so creepy. Maybe like, okay, when somebody calls to get the mortgage payment, I'll have to tell them that he's passed away and I can get information. I mean, I kind of get that, but you don't reply to somebody. Joe's dead. Something's off. But it makes sense. If Joe was the legal point of contact for Julia, this must be Monica's way of intercepting any useful information that would otherwise go to Joe.

It's very odd.

[00:17:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. My mom and aunt have also contacted the Italian consulate in London and New York contacted the police in the county where we believe Julia is, and written to every nursing home listed in the county she's in. Because we live in the uk, we can't afford to just fly out and knock on the door of every nursing home in New York.

At 105 years old, the clock is ticking. We're desperate to see Julia again and want her to know that she hasn't been abandoned. It's too cruel to get to such an amazing age and not be surrounded by family. How else can we try to find her? What would light Jordan and Gabe and also dark Jordan do I. Signed something peculiar about what they've done with Julia.

[00:17:49] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. What a sad story. I'm so sorry for Julia that she's being isolated like this, especially because she's still sharp. She's probably got a lot to offer. I'm so sorry for you, your mom, your whole family. These neighbors, everyone who loves this woman and just wants to spend some time with her. It's tragic, but it's very disturbing.

As per usual. We wanted to talk to an expert here, so we reached out to attorney and friend of the show, Corbin, Payne, and Corbin's. First thought was contacting the police in Julius County in New York trying to get them to do a wellness check. That's a good idea. It sounds like you've tried and you haven't had any luck.

We looked into this in more detail and you might need to file a missing person's report for Julia. If she's officially missing, then the police might be more obligated or motivated to assist in locating her. Even if she is in a nursing home. The cops have access to resources like databases. They can usually talk to healthcare facilities with more ease than a civilian.

Corbin's. Second idea, reach out to Adult Protective Services. If you don't know, they're the agency that investigates exploitation or abuse of elderly people. It's a very important agency. Super useful. Now, we don't know if Julia's actually being abused or exploited. Like I said, I have some questions about Monica, but who knows?

But I would definitely make a report. Tell 'em your story. Ask if they'll look into it. Now, if they do track her down, they might not be able to tell you where Julia is right now. These cases can really be sensitive. But Corbin said that at the very least a PS could try to get eyes on her, confirm she's safe and healthy.

Just know that Monica will probably find out if a PS manages to meet with Julia, and it's not gonna take Sherlock Holmes to figure out who tipped him off. But also it doesn't sound like you have much to lose. Your relationship with Monica is already strained, to say the least. I'm sure you'd rather know that Julia's alive and safe than stay in Monica's good graces.

We're gonna link to a PS in New York State in the show notes for you. I would make that a priority, Corbin's other strategy. Reach out to those three other people. Joe, set up his power of attorney. See what they know. Ask 'em why they didn't take on the duty of caring for Julia. Something's weird about this.

If you can persuade them that Monica isn't taking proper care of Julia, maybe they'll step up. Also, if you guys have a legal reason to find Julia like enforcing a power of attorney, then the police might actually be required to assist, although that usually goes through legal channels first. So I definitely try to get your hands on that paperwork.

If you can't find it, track down the attorney Joe worked with to set all that up. They should have a copy and they can tell you what your options are. They might not even charge you at this point. Having that power of attorney paperwork might also help you get around any HIPAA laws. These are our patient privacy laws here in the United States.

That might prevent a nursing home from telling you whether Julia is a resident. The other thing you could do is hire a private investigator in New York to find her licensed private investigators. New York probably has more than any other state, maybe Texas, I don't know. But if I had to guess, New York seems like a place that PIs would be a dime a dozen.

They have access to databases in other resources that the rest of us don't. They're also not as expensive as you might think. Definitely cheaper than flying back and forth, trying to knock on doors yourself. If they track Julia down, they could maybe even go and visit her or just verify where she is, and then you guys could do a wellness check of your own.

A PI might not be able to actually get into a nursing home, but I bet you guys could. Corbin said that Monica has the ability to order a nursing home to keep people away from Julia, but she might not have yet thought to do that, especially if she thinks nobody knows where she is. Another option, and I'd probably do this regardless.

You could retain an attorney to reach out to Monica. If Monica thinks there might be a court case over Julia, maybe she'll back off and let you guys talk to her or at least tell you where she is or who knows. This could go the other way and make her dig her heels and more. But an attorney would be super helpful in advising you either way.

[00:21:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Corbin said there is one last nuclear option here, which is you could file a lawsuit in New York asking to be named Julia's conservator. Now you'll need to prove that Julia's either being harmed or neglected, or is in imminent danger of being harmed or neglected. That's how the court allows for these arrangements.

That's how it works in Tennessee anyway, where Corbin practices, but that's my understanding in most states. Also terms like neglect and harm. They have very specific legal definitions in the ordinary sense, and also like in a general ethical sense, it sounds like Monica is not taking the best care of Julia, but that doesn't mean that she's neglecting or harming her in the legal sense of the term, especially if she's in a home, then she has a roof over her head.

There are people looking out for her. So. It's hard to say if you would be successful here also. This would be a process. It would be quite expensive and it will almost certainly destroy any relationship you have with Monica and anyone else in the family who sides with her. But again, I don't know how much of a concern that is for you.

[00:22:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I agree. I don't know if they'd have much luck there, even if they wanna give it a go. So those are your conventional approaches. One dark Jordan idea I had. What if you contacted Monica posing as somebody from the state lottery, for example, or some sort of sweepstakes saying that Julia has won a bunch of money, you need to get in touch with her.

Something tells me Monica is gonna respond to that, especially if she's trying to get the money for herself. And that's what this is all about. But you have to say that you guys need to verify her current residence or you need to talk to her directly in person to sign some, whatever it is. That's maybe how you find out where she is Now, is this strictly legal?

Eh? Probably not. But you're not fraudulently posing as a state lottery official to get money. You're just trying to track someone down. And besides, you guys are in the uk, so New York State law could kiss your crumpets as far as I'm concerned, right? Who cares? Look, I'm so sorry this is happening. It's super sad.

It's gotta be very stressful. I hope you guys catch a break and you get to spend some time with Julia before she's gone. She's very lucky to have so many people who wanna track her down. It's spend time with her. If you find her, it's gonna be so sweet. Giving you and Julia a big hug and wishing you all the best.

And by the way, if you do wanna retain a private investigator in New York, get back to us because that's where Kevin Barrows works, isn't it? Primarily Gabriel? Oh yeah, I think so. And he's like the guy retired, FBI. He's been on the show before. He's specializes in finding missing people. I don't know what his rates are or anything, but if somebody's missing in New York state, Kevin Barrows can find him.

You know what's a great use of your imaginary lottery winnings? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. When did we all decide that struggling alone is kind of a flex? Like, oh yeah, I am totally fine, while internally screaming into the void.

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Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to feedback Friday.

[00:26:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, next up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I recently received a message out of the blue from my cousin's ex-wife. Let's call her Megan. This was odd, not just because I've barely ever spoken to her, but because this cousin, her ex-husband, molested me as a child.

He was a child at the time too. Seeing this message raised a lot of complex emotions for me as I'm currently dealing with another immediate family member being investigated for similar actions. Megan was apologetic, but I couldn't help but feel that there was a motive behind her outreach. She claimed that she tried to advocate for me, but was berated for being a quote unquote bad wife and not standing by her husband for something that boys do.

She went on to say how enabling my aunt is and how my cousin has always played the victim. I feel a knot in my stomach when I think that by minimally responding with appreciation for her acknowledgement and shared confusion for the family dynamics, I'll be fueling a drama seeking wounded ex. I've worked very hard to heal through integrative therapy, meditation, microdosing, and body work.

I have a wonderfully sensitive and courageous husband who continually shows me what men can be. We have two children and I love my life. I'm grateful to be in a place where this memory has lost the power to harm me. And yet I'm triggered by the negligence of Megan's approach. I'm grateful to her for acknowledging the wrong and reaching out to express her feelings, but I'm not sure she considered my feelings what this would bring up for me, or if I'm in a place to receive this bomb.

I'm also confused because there's no relationship to heal between us. I'm not interested in forming a relationship based on a perceived common enemy or within a live divorce, and I honestly don't wanna know what's happening between them. How can I respectfully establish a hard boundary while still coming across with respect?

Is she using my past to create a negative narrative for custody? How do I close this open loop signed, thrown by her tone and all these unknowns when I've already grown? And I'd rather she leave this alone besides, does she want to atone or just bemoan her own woes?

[00:28:36] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe, that sign off was longer than the police report the cops filed last week.

That sign off went on for days. Geez. Oh man. I can't stop thinking about that story, by the way. I can't believe that happened to you. Me neither. I can't believe I was the victim of an attempted. Hold

[00:28:50] JHS Clip: up.

[00:28:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. Were you sitting on that the whole time? That was nice. No comment. I love that though. That was a good remix of a classic.

[00:29:01] Jordan Harbinger: Alright, so first of all, I'm very sorry that your cousin did this to you when you guys were kids. It's awful. It's traumatizing. It's all the things you know. It is. And my heart goes out to you.

We've taken several letters on the show from people who've experienced this kind of abuse and it comes with its own unique traumas and challenges. So you're not alone in struggling with the aftermath of this. In a message like this, it can bring up a lot. It can put you in touch with some very painful memories and feelings.

It can dredge up stuff you've mostly put to bed. I think that's all very normal. That said, it sounds like you've done truly extraordinary work in your life. You've come so far. I'm so happy to hear that. Good on you for seeking out the support you needed for finding healing and insights from so many different sources.

You should be really proud. So look, I totally understand why Megan's message through you. I also don't know what her intention was. It's absolutely possible that she was trying to express her love and support for you, and maybe she did that in a clumsy or ignorant way. Maybe she didn't think through what it might be like for you to receive that message.

Maybe it would've been nice if she said, Hey, I know this might bring up some stuff for you. Maybe you don't want to talk about it, but here's what I know. Here's what I'm seeing, and I just wanna tell you that I'm on your side and I'm here if you need anything that might have clarified things and landed better with you.

But if Meghan's never been through something like this, it might be hard or even impossible for her to frame things like that, to even imagine that her message wouldn't be welcome. Now, is it possible that she had some ulterior motive? Sure. Is she stirring up drama? Is she looking to bond with you over something dark?

Maybe could she be trying to create evidence for a custody battle? Eh? Honestly, that makes a lot of sense to me. Considering that she's in the middle of an active divorce, the timing is pretty suss. But do we know for sure? No. It's also possible she's just trying to be a kind and empathetic in her own weirdly imperfect way.

[00:30:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's also possible that reaching out to you is a way for her to assuage some guilt. She feels about not holding her ex-husband accountable, not calling out her mother-in-law, not being more supportive to you while they were together, which sure that motivation might ultimately be more about her than you, and that would be something else She.

Probably could have acknowledged in our message, but that doesn't mean that it isn't also about wanting to be kind and genuinely wanting to apologize and heal your relationship, even if this is not a relationship you feel needs to be healed. None of this means that you're wrong for feeling weird. I'm just saying maybe stay open to a few possibilities here, like Jordan is saying.

But I gotta say Jordan, from where I'm sitting, she is 100% allowed to not engage with this woman if she doesn't want to. You don't owe her anything, especially as it relates to this very painful history. It's your history. Primarily, it's not hers. So if you don't want to talk to her about it, that is absolutely fair and you could literally say, Hey Megan, thank you for reaching out.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm sure you're coming from a good place. I can hear that you're having your own experience of my cousin, but respectfully, this is not something I'm super keen to talk about. It's painful, it's private. I. It's something that I've worked hard to move on from, so I'll just have to leave it here.

And I hope you're well. It really could be as simple as that.

[00:32:07] Jordan Harbinger: It can be even simpler than that. If you don't feel like sharing your reasons why, just, sorry, not interested. You could even ignore the message completely. Although I do appreciate that you want to close this loop. I'm the same way. I'd rather put something to bed than just dodge it, even if it is a little uncomfortable.

But honestly, I don't think it requires much more

[00:32:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: than

[00:32:23] Jordan Harbinger: that.

[00:32:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: But before you do that, maybe just take a beat and decide if you want to know more about Megan's intentions here. Maybe you don't, and end of story. But I also don't think there's anything wrong with saying, Hey, just so I understand where you're coming from, why did you reach out to me now?

What were you hoping to get from this conversation? I just want to understand that better before I decide whether to talk about it after all of this time. And again, I just wanna stress this. There is zero obligation to do this. I'm just telling you that it's fair game and it might give you the information that you need to decide how to feel about all of this, because look.

Megan might in fact be a good friend to you through all of this, or she might be over steppy and meddlesome and yeah, maybe she has her own agenda here, or she might just be really tone deaf and misattuned and just doesn't have experience talking to people who've been through something like this

[00:33:12] Jordan Harbinger: and how she responds to that question, that's probably gonna tell you a lot about whether she's somebody you wanna let in.

[00:33:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: I also wonder if what was difficult about Meghan's message wasn't just her clumsiness, but having to be in touch with some difficult feelings again, and then wondering, I feel very triggered by this. Am I really as healed as I thought I was? Do I really have all of this sorted, which I think is very normal?

You said in your letter, I'm grateful to be in a place where this memory has lost the power to harm me, and now all of a sudden I wonder if it feels like this memory does have the power to harm you because of what Meghan brought up in her message. I can imagine that would be unsettling, the anger that you feel toward Megan for the negligence of her approach.

Might be warranted if she really is not being very thoughtful, or maybe if she does have some ulterior motive. But it's possible that part of your anger is simply about being in touch with this wound again at all. And yes, that is one more reason that Megan should have been way more thoughtful about how she framed all of this, or maybe should not have reached out to you at all.

But it might also be a reason for you to meet this reaction that you're having with a little more curiosity, a little more compassion, and to remember that even if you're in touch with this wound sometimes, which is not entirely under your control, as you're finding out with this message, that doesn't mean that you haven't made massive progress in your life.

Or that you're somehow in trouble or that you don't have the tools to process this pain because you do.

[00:34:42] Jordan Harbinger: Good point. That's actually what I think her letter is about. Not just what to do about the Megans who trigger you, but how to move through these moments when the legacy of this abuse pops up. Again, Megan is the easy target of that anger, and like you said, that might be appropriate to some degree, but I get the sense that this anger is best directed this cousin and perhaps his mom if she really did enable him.

And I also wonder if she might be a little angry at herself for simply being vulnerable in this department. Look, I haven't gone through what she's gone through, but I can relate to that. Sometimes somebody will pop up in my inbox and say something thoughtless that pisses me off. And I'll hear myself going, Hey, screw you.

Why would you say it that way? Or whatever. And then I'll go, okay, I'm a little raw in this department. Feel a little off kilter. This person just revealed that to me. So maybe I also need to look at that. So I'm with you. It's important to parse our anger and make sure we're directing it at the right people and drawing the right conclusions from it.

Also, I would talk to your therapist about all this if you're still working with 'em and see what they say. That's a great place to talk through the upsides and downsides to engaging with Megan, and more importantly, whatever her note has brought up for you. But again, this is totally up to you. We're just inviting you to get more curious about what Megan's note is bringing up for you and your process.

In addition to whether you wanna take her up on this invitation to chat, sending you a big hug, and wishing you all the best. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're locked in an endless custody battle with a psychotic ex, you're gaming out career moves in this highly unpredictable world, or your doctor friend is accusing you of victim blaming after they had an affair with an abusive mentally ill patient.

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You can sign up at Jordan harbinger.com/news. Okay, what's next?

[00:36:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I work in a very busy branch of a local credit union. We're one of the best in our area and excellent customer experience is expected, and I'm very good at what I do. But the area manager, let's call her Diane and the regional manager.

Let's call her Becky. Are your typical corporate mean girls? They like to gang up on certain employees and make their lives miserable. Diane is the big problem. She's manipulative, doesn't like to be out of the loop on anything and is a legendary micromanager. She's insisted. We always reply all to emails for requests so she can make sure we're doing our jobs and has even gone as far as to watch the cameras to make sure we were accurate on our timecards.

She recently found out that I had applied for another position with another department, which would mean moving up to an amazing position and being out of her control. She was livid. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what I did. I followed protocol and the assistant branch manager and the branch manager gave me the green light to apply.

But Diane said something to Becky, which prompted some weird comments during a meeting about how if anyone wants to apply for one of these other departments, the area manager must be notified.

[00:37:56] Jordan Harbinger: What a Cartoonishly petty annoying boss. This woman is the worst. Getting strong. Monica Vibes from Diane

[00:38:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: over here.

She doesn't want me to advance in my career. She all but said that to me months ago during a review where I laid out my goals for the year. One of those goals was to shadow the department that I applied for and she wouldn't allow me to with no other reason than get better at your current role. Which makes zero sense because my metrics are improving month over month.

I'm meeting or exceeding goals and I have a member base that loves me and would not like to see me go.

[00:38:30] Jordan Harbinger: That might be part of what's happening. I wonder if Diane wants you to stay where you are because you're a hit with customers in addition to the control piece. 'cause that's good for her. It reminds me of these guys who, they're like the best coder in their department at Amazon and they're like, why can't I get a promotion?

It's like, 'cause you're the best coder and they want you to be a workhorse, not a manager. Or they want you to be a workhorse in their department, not a workhorse in a better department because they don't care about you.

[00:38:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: It would explain almost everything about this situation since this happened. I interviewed for that job.

It went very well. They thought I was a great fit and loved me, but ultimately they went with another candidate with a little more experience. So I'm gonna do what I can to gain more knowledge to position myself for the next opportunity.

[00:39:13] Jordan Harbinger: Love it. I'm sorry you didn't get the job, but it's a great mindset to have.

[00:39:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I appreciate that a lot. Today, my assistant manager, let's call her, Tracy, confided in me that she felt like Becky and Diane were trying to push her out because she should have said something to our new branch manager about Diane not wanting me to apply for other roles in the company. How many managers does this credit union

[00:39:34] Jordan Harbinger: have?

What is going on here?

[00:39:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know, man. Straight up gaggle managers at this place.

[00:39:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, Elon, get in there. This org chart is insane.

[00:39:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's my main observation so far. Yeah. Way too many diagonal lines at this place. I don't get it. So she goes on. We've both reported Diane to HR over the last year for many reasons.

Most of them about the way she talks to us. I won't get into the offhand comments she's made. I'll just say that. She's very backhanded in her compliments. As a result of all of this, we seem to have developed targets on our backs. I wanna be able to advance in my career without the threat of needing approvals, and I don't want Tracy pushed out.

She's amazing. I love working for her, and she's been a rock throughout a lot of turnover and upheaval over the last two years. Is there anything I can do here? Signed rising up at this credit union? When I'm not getting much credit and there's very little union.

[00:40:28] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, I'm very sorry you're dealing with all this.

The Dianes and the Beckys of the world are so irritating, so petty, they can make life miserable, and they really have no business managing people at all. The fact that she's making you unhappy and preventing you from moving on is so lame, so weird. You reported her to HR and she still wants you to stay in her department.

Any rational boss who had an employee making their life difficult would be like, yeah, sure. Get her outta here. Be someone else's problem. Good point. Not that you're a problem, I just mean Diane of course probably sees you that way. Exactly. So that means she's getting something out of keeping you where you are.

Either your talent, your reputation with customers, or the opportunity to control you and or enjoy retaliating against you for what you did, all of which are super gross. So here's what I'd do if I were you. First of all, I would keep your eye on the prize here, which is to rise up to explore these exciting opportunities.

It's not to win against Diane, at least not directly. She's clearly an obstacle, so you have to give her some thought. But as much as you can, don't get pulled into fighting dumb battles with a petty boss. What I would focus your energy on is doing everything you can to keep growing and positioning yourself for a promotion.

And that comes down to a few basic things. Investing in your relationships inside your company, outside your company, building up your knowledge, your skills, doing online courses, taking on more responsibilities at work so you can learn, continuing to crush it, exceeding your goals, making sure that your wins are visible to senior people beyond Diane.

And basically just putting one brick in the wall every single day. Now. I know Diane is c blocking you from shadowing this other department and, and that sucks, but that doesn't mean you can't find another way. If I were you, I'd just go straight to the people in that other department and be like, Hey, I wanna learn more about what you do.

You wanna grab lunch and then ask all your questions, or stay an hour later, a couple days a week, and pitch in in that department and formally cross train with them essentially. Or give this department a couple hours of your weekend off the clock, whatever that looks like, if that's a thing at banks. I don't know.

You guys seem to clock out when you clock out, but. I'm sure your colleagues in these other departments will love you for this, and you'll basically be interviewing for future openings before they are even announced. And I'd keep finding clever workarounds like that. Every time Diane blocks you Treat it like a game.

How can I maneuver around this person? How can I use her to show me where I need to be more proactive, more creative? She might be able to control where you physically spend your day, but she can't control how you use your mind and how you spend your time outside of work. The other reason your relationships are so important here is they're gonna start to tilt the balance of power here.

Diane has the power right now in some limited way. She can make up policies. She can tell you, oh, go there. Do this. Don't talk to those people. CC me on every dumb email with your lunch order in it, and you gotta play along to some degree. But if you start to develop great relationships across the bank, especially with more senior people, if you have a few key champions looking out for you, I promise one day soon you're gonna have more power than she does.

It could be as simple as somebody who's higher up poaching you for their department and telling Diane, sorry, too bad she's ours now. Or it could be HR taking your next complaint more seriously because you built great bridges with them and they're more inclined to fight for you. Relationships are the greatest form of capital.

They're more powerful than money experience time. So I would really orient your plan around cultivating great relationships. And speaking of hr, I would not keep reporting Diane unless it's absolutely warranted and necessary, but I would keep documenting everything she does that's problematic so that you have a record of it.

Quick notes is all you need, nothing too involved. Dates, times, comments, witnesses, all of that. Then if Diana ever does something truly egregious or she becomes an insurmountable obstacle to rising up, like if you have no prospects at this place because of her, then I would consider going to hr, ideally with Tracy's support, so they hear it from more than one person, and then your months of documentation could just bury her.

Also, if you talk to hr, I'd focus less on the petty behavior like the backhanded compliments and more on behavior that creates legal risk. Stuff that's more easily definable. Retaliation, discrimination, favoritism, creating a hostile work environment, that kind of stuff. And I'd also make it clear to HR what the impact of Diane's behavior is, how it's affecting productivity, morale, the bank's ability to retain good employees.

For example, if it's true that Diane is trying to push Tracy out for not enforcing a completely made up policy that benefits her, that's specific, that could be considered retaliation, and that's something HR would probably take more seriously. But again, don't make it your mission to get Diane in trouble.

The time you'd spend writing up a memo or being interviewed by HR about all this. That's time. I'd much rather you spend shadowing or doing a class or crushing it in your role. The real victory will be moving up and getting away from her. And if none of this works, then I'd consider jumping ship to another credit union.

If you do everything we're talking about, you're gonna be positioning yourself for a great role one way or the other. Maybe you rise up here and you get out from under Diane. Maybe you meet a manager at another bank and you tell him your story and suddenly you have a job offer. In the meantime, stay laser focused, be unflappable.

Don't give Diane any more fuel than necessary, and channel all this anger into your job search. Keep climbing. Good luck. Now go CC Diane's busy body micromanaging ass on this word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Audible. Okay, let's talk about the new year.

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Now, back to Feedback Friday. Okay, what's next?

[00:49:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my older brother, Dave has had a rough life. He was misdiagnosed with A DHD at six years old, and he was bullied throughout elementary school by both classmates and teachers for being different. The bullying got so bad that when he was in the fifth grade, my mom decided to pull him out of school and homeschool him.

This did not go well because my mom was wildly inexperienced and unprepared to teach grades six through 12. As a result, Dave never earned his high school diploma or GED.

[00:49:51] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. This is so sad. Bullied by students and teachers, and then he doesn't get the education that he needs. On top of it, this poor guy, when Dave

[00:49:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: was 15, he got into legal trouble after fooling around with the girl next door.

He was let off with probation, and the incident did not go on his permanent record, nor was he required to register as a sex offender.

[00:50:11] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, okay. That's intense. So she was too young. Clearly. Otherwise, look, this is usually a non-issue for two minors. If it's like a 15-year-old boy and a 14-year-old girl, okay, but if it's like a 15-year-old boy and a 10-year-old girl or 11 or something, it's like, yeah, sounds like what happened.

[00:50:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: But this experience devastated his self-worth and gave him severe social anxiety. I trust him with my life and I don't believe that he's a threat to anyone. At 19, Dave was formally diagnosed with high functioning Asperger syndrome.

[00:50:42] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. So that has since been folded into autism spectrum disorder in the DSM.

Yeah, that's right. So I assume that played some role in the incident with the girl next door. Maybe not, but maybe they're totally unrelated. But I know a SD can make it hard to read certain cues, control certain impulses. It can impact decision making in general, even if somebody is high functioning.

[00:51:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: He found some peace by volunteering at our local Humane Society, and after he turned 18, they hired him full-time in animal care.

Though he no longer works there, he still works in animal care, which seems to be something he enjoys. But at 27 years old, Dave still struggles with self-control and personal responsibility. Interesting.

[00:51:22] Jordan Harbinger: There you go. That might help explain that incident with the neighbor,

[00:51:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: for example. He needs reminders to take showers, brush his teeth, and put on deodorant.

He lives with my parents and spends most of his money on things like Legos and video games. He won't get his driver's license because he is terrified of driving, so he takes the bus to work, or sometimes my parents drive him. Dave shuts himself in his room. In social situations, he usually sits in the corner and scrolls through his phone.

He's very socially anxious and it's clear that he struggles to connect with people. I largely blame my parents for not setting him up for success, especially my mom. She's a covert narcissist and my dad is a pushover. They still defend their decision to pull him out of school and they aren't doing anything to help him move forward.

I believe in Dave and think he has the potential to live independently and support himself. But my mom disagrees.

[00:52:18] Jordan Harbinger: Look, I know it can be hard to know how to best care for a child with special needs. It's confusing. How much do we accommodate them? How much do we empower them to be on their own? How much do we protect them?

So I feel for your parents there. This is a really challenging child to have. It's a lot, but it does sound like they might have made some pretty big mistakes and they are not owning up to those now, and they might not be helping him become independent, which it sounds like he might actually be totally capable of, even if he does forget his deodorant here and there, and that's really worrisome.

What does a person like Dave do when his parents die?

[00:52:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think about that a lot, and I think also about how that burden so often falls to the person's siblings, which is. Very intense. It's not fair. No, it's not.

[00:53:00] Jordan Harbinger: This is not his son. That's quite a burden to carry. And meanwhile, the parents don't seem to be doing much to make this as easy as possible down the road.

[00:53:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, absolutely. Let's come back to that. So he goes on, since I was 16, my mom has been practically begging me to take care of Dave when they can't anymore. She breaks down in tears every time she brings it up.

[00:53:18] Jordan Harbinger: Of course she does. 'cause she knows that her tears are gonna manipulate you now. Now that's a cynical view, but you said she's a covert narcissist, so it's par for the course.

Look, this is not okay. I feel very strongly about this. I can understand why she's emotional, assuming her tears are not, again, just a way to pray on your sympathy, but for her to put Dave's care entirely on you starting when you were a teenager, not okay and apparently unnecessary.

[00:53:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally agree. I'm actually very impressed that you're strong enough to be able to say, not so fast.

I have a life too. I can't just orbit around Dave forever. Yeah,

[00:53:51] Jordan Harbinger: good for you. This is gonna be a crucial boundary for you to actually enforce.

[00:53:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: While I love and care about my brother, and I'm not opposed to putting in some effort to help guarantee his wellbeing, I've just had my first child and I want to grow my own family without Dave being my primary focus.

I've suggested that my parents enroll him in an adult with autism program to help him get on his feet, but they refuse insisting that it won't help.

[00:54:17] Jordan Harbinger: Fascinating theme on today's episode. Okay. People clinging to control over situations instead of letting go, letting people in, being open to new approaches, just incredible how much that can backfire,

[00:54:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: right?

I'm so curious to know what the parents have to gain by keeping Dave close. Narcissistic supply for mom. Is that all it is? Yeah. Or letting someone else in would mean that they have to admit that they can't do it all themselves

[00:54:41] Jordan Harbinger: or that they screwed up their kid, which a narcissist is not gonna wanna

do.

[00:54:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: But this is just putting 'em in a program that any adult with autism would benefit from. It's not necessarily an indictment of them,

[00:54:51] Jordan Harbinger: but if he becomes independent and actually goes, you know what? I don't need mom. That's her worst nightmare.

[00:54:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then they don't. Ah, so it's about they need to feel needed. It's not that it won't

[00:55:01] Jordan Harbinger: help.

They're actually afraid that it will help. That's my bet. I think they're afraid that it will help,

[00:55:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: but then they also want their other son to take care of him when they die or when they slow down. Unclear. But yeah, you're right. My parents are in their fifties now and they're starting to slow down physically.

How do I make sure Dave is set up for success when my parents can no longer take care of him? How do I handle this with my parents who are set in their ways signed, charting a course to get my rents to endorse some helpful supports so they don't just outsource my brother's care to me? Of course,

[00:55:34] Jordan Harbinger: well put Dave in the program and kill your parents.

Boy, not necessarily in that order. Darkest of dark Jordan takes right there. Yeah, I'm kidding. Do not do that. Menendez. Alright, so this is a really good question. This is so intense. Look, like I said, I really feel for you here. I obviously feel for Dave too. It's a really tough diagnosis to have. It's a tough life.

He's led. My heart breaks for anybody who is treated poorly, who struggles to take care of themselves. And I feel for your parents too, despite their flaws and their mistakes. They obviously didn't ask for this, and I'm sure that raising Dave has been extremely challenging, to say the least. But right now, I largely feel for you because not only have you been impacted by having a sibling like this, your parents are putting a massive responsibility on you.

And as you can tell, I'm a little angry about that, not because Dave doesn't deserve love and support. Of course he does. But because taking care of him for the rest of your life, that is not fair to you. You have your own family now. You have your own life. And caring for your brother Dave, forever. It does not even sound necessary.

So let's get tactical here for a moment. I think your first order of business is to start working with your parents to put some structure around Dave that'll allow him to live independently as much as possible. And I'd start now because certain programs can take a while to access and you want to have all the pieces in place before your parents are too old to care for Dave specifically.

I'd start looking into options for housing supported living arrangements, options to live alone with support services, group homes, co-housing communities, designed for neurodiverse individuals. There are tons of options out there. I would also think about what Dave is gonna require financially. That might mean setting up a special needs trust.

That's a kind of trust that protects a person's assets without jeopardizing their eligibility for government benefits. That is a super useful thing to have in place. It can be managed by a trustee who could be you. I would also look into something called an ABLE account. That's a tax advantage savings account for people with disabilities.

Lots of helpful financial products out there. On the legal front, you're gonna wanna look into whether you guys should have some kind of guardianship over Dave or allow for something less restrictive. Basically supported decision making where he gets to call a lot of the shots with your input.

Obviously the housing money, legal pieces of this, that's all top priority because Dave struggles with self-control and personal responsibility. The last thing you want is to set him up with a bank account and he drains it in a few months to buy a bunch of expensive Lego collector sets on eBay or something like, I know that sounds like I'm being mean, but if he's got impulse control and he spends all his money currently on Legos, that might not change.

When your parents are gone, it might just get worse. You're gonna wanna talk to a family attorney and or an estate attorney about all of this. Maybe somebody who specializes in disability law. That's gonna be key. Healthcare is another area you're gonna wanna look at, although I'm not sure that there's a ton for you to do here right now.

Basically, just make sure Dave has access to doctors that he can talk to a therapist if he needs to.

[00:58:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I agree that that's slightly less urgent, but it actually is very important in Dave's case because it sounds like he has really severe social anxiety and it does not sound like he talked to anybody after that incident with the neighbor.

Apparently that whole experience left him with some serious issues. The severe anxiety is probably very scared of other people. Sounds like it was traumatic for him and for the victim, and that might be holding him back from building his own life in all sorts of ways. So if he could talk to a therapist, I would love that.

[00:58:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's true. That is sad. I also think some general life skills would be nice. Cooking, budgeting, advocating for himself, maybe some vocational training, supported employment services. And then there's the social aspect of all this. Clubs, interest groups, maybe pairing with mentors through a nonprofit who can give him some guidance, some friendship.

I know you said he's kind of a loner, but I also wonder if your parents didn't encourage this part of his personality very much. I don't wanna go down a whole rabbit hole of resources here, but we went ahead and gathered a bunch of great ones for you. From financial planning to housing, to employment support to mental health.

We're gonna drop all of that stuff in the show notes.

[00:59:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, highly recommend checking those out. I think they're gonna give you a running start on all of this. Now look, I know you're up against a lot with your parents. You're up against your mom's apparent narcissism. You're up against your dad's passivity, you're up against their general rigidity about all this.

I'm sure all of that comes from, God knows where, where the deep stuff comes from. But it sounds to me like there's a lot of fear and guilt, denial, and probably just feeling totally overwhelmed after years of this. But it's gonna be an obstacle to getting things done. So when you talk to your parents, I would try to understand their feelings as much as possible, make them feel heard.

I know it's difficult, but your empathy for them is key. And I think it could slowly lower their defenses and make it safe for them to start at least imagining other ways of taking care of Dave. So before you go in there and start pitching solutions, you might wanna make some space for them to talk about how they feel without being judged.

Talk about why they're resistant and just listen and try to validate that for them. You could be like, look, I hear you. The future is overwhelming, mom, I get it. I understand you, dad, you don't want anyone else taking care of Dave, that kind of thing. And I would reassure them that you wanna protect Dave as much as they do, and you're not gonna let 'em fail or fall into trouble once they're older.

Once they're gone, that's probably really important for them to hear from you. And then when the time is right, you can work up to saying something like, look, I know it's hard to imagine anyone else caring for Dave the way you do. I get it. But the best way that you can protect him is to put these supports in place Now while you guys still have a say.

And just imagine how much peace of mind that's gonna give you to know that everything is in place no matter what. And that's also gonna really help me take care of Dave the way you guys want me to. And then you can tell them that you'll be their partner in doing all of this. You'll help them every step of the way and wherever possible that you'll involve Dave in these decisions about his future because.

That's also the right thing to do and that will also be empowering to him.

[01:01:34] Jordan Harbinger: And look, if they fight you on this or they're like, yeah, okay, you're right. And then they keep burying their heads in the sand and do nothing. You might need to make this urgent for them. Maybe you say, look, if something happened to you tomorrow, wouldn't you wanna know that Dave is safe and cared for?

Wouldn't you want me to have the support I need to do right by him? How are we guaranteeing that he's gonna be okay? Hey, maybe you can even make their collaboration with you a requirement of your help. I feel like I would do that. I'd say, look, I'll keep an eye on Dave and make sure he's okay once you're gone, but if you don't help me find the support we need, you cannot count on me for that.

I am out. I know that's a little intense to say, but you might need to scare them a little or take a harder line if they refuse to be cooperative. My mom actually is considerably older than her siblings. You've probably all heard about the one who was like a heroin addict and died. There's another one who was mentally ill and my grandparents never set him up for success, and my mom had to take care of him, and he had a guardian and he was always mean to her and stuff like that.

It was just this really annoying situation, and it was made a million times worse by my grandparents doing nothing to set him up for success. They basically made it impossible for my mom to have any resources. Then finally when they finally passed away, they left him a trust, but unfortunately they didn't make her the sole person in control of, it's just this a huge mess, right?

So he's fighting around everything and then she finally got him a guardian from the state and the dude basically just embezzled the money. At this point, my mom was like. I've done all I can. I'm not gonna like keep helping you if you're gonna be a total prick to me and then take control away from me.

And then this guy takes some money. It's like, oh, well, too bad. Bye. And it's really a shame because if my grandparents had cooperated at all, my mom could have set him up for success and it wouldn't have necessarily been smooth sailing, but they made it harder and it's already hard to take care of somebody like this.

[01:03:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my God. So they both made it her problem and did not equip her to do the job they wanted her to do.

[01:03:37] Jordan Harbinger: Got in the way of every single solution. Basically. What's happening with this guy right now?

[01:03:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's infuriating. Poor Bev. Ah. Another thing you can do, you can share some stories with your parents. Hey, I read about a family online that you could tell this story that Jordan just told.

Honestly. Have 'em call my mom. Yeah, just get Bev on the line. Yep. She'll sort this out. In 15 minutes, you could say, look, I've read about families online that didn't come up with plans, and when the parents had a medical emergency, their child ended up bouncing around feeling unstable, feeling confused or worse.

And it really opened my eyes to how critical this planning is. Or I listened to a podcast from a family that did this and they did it really well, and it inspired me to start thinking ahead and I realized that this is totally doable, both of which, by the way, we encountered while doing our research for this.

So I'm sure you'll find stories like this too.

[01:04:26] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. And if they can hear those stories directly from other parents in similar situations, that would be even better. So maybe you also take your parents to a couple support groups or parent networks. You get 'em talking with other parents in their shoes, I bet that would make an impression.

And then you gotta break all of this down into very small, very doable things. I would tell your parents, Hey look, we don't need to tackle everything today. How about we just look at housing options, see what's out there. No commitments. Just information you wanna look for. Easy wins. Attend to 30 minute webinar with your parents.

Schedule a quick consult with a special needs planner. Small things that aren't overwhelming, that'll show them that this is way less scary than they think.

[01:05:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, and on that note, I would also go back and listen to episode 10 16. There was a question, I think it was question four. On that episode, we took a letter from a guy who was also wrestling with how to get his family to best care for his autistic brother.

And interestingly, there were a lot of parallels with your brother's story. I think on that episode we shared some ideas and resources for helping a special needs person become independent and take good care of themselves. So I'd give that a listen too.

[01:05:28] Jordan Harbinger: I'm having a dark Jordan idea here. I wonder if you can use your mom's narcissism to your own advantage here just a little bit.

Maybe you tell her that setting this stuff up is gonna be the best thing she ever did. It's gonna make her look like such a loving mother that's gonna last way beyond her lifetime. You've done so much for Dave over the years. This is how you can make sure that love continues. Everyone's gonna be so impressed with you.

This is how you can make us feel that you are an amazing mom even after you're gone. Now, this is manipulative, but if it works, I think it's fair game. 50 50 on this working because her immediate need for narcissistic supply might trump the long game here, but who knows? Listen, while you do all that, stay connected to your empathy.

Keep treating your parents as your partners in this. That might be hard sometimes. There are so many intense feelings wrapped up in this conversation about your brother, but the more you approach your parents with kindness and patience, even when they make things difficult, the more you're gonna be doing right by your brother and by yourself.

Most importantly, I really want to encourage you to keep prioritizing yourself and your family. I think that you already know this, but it doesn't make you a monster. You deserve a life of your own. You're not abandoning your brother. You can help take care of him in a way that's fair and sustainable to you.

Feeling secure in those priorities, not letting this caretaking eclipse your own life or impinge on your own family. I think that's crucial, and I'm proud of you for that. Good luck. Now for recommendation of the week,

[01:06:51] JHS Clip: I am addicted to lit filler,

[01:06:54] Jordan Harbinger: so I use crystal brand deodorants, basically a rock of a salt.

The reason I'm bringing this up, normally I don't recommend things like this, but I hate smells, but I also don't wanna smell myself. Of course, this is a rock of a salt, which kills bacteria that ends up stinking, but it does not have its own smell. It doesn't smear on stuff. It doesn't end up on your clothes.

None of that gross waxy perfume crap, this stuff lasts like five years. In fact, it lasts until you accidentally drop it and it shatters. That's how long these things last. I swear I've had one of these for like a decade. And you just rub a little thin layer of it on, and I don't even need to use it all the time.

I just use it when I know I'm really gonna be stinky and it will absolutely demolish beo. I don't totally get how it works. I guess it's just impossible for bacteria to grow in that little place. You only need a little bit. It goes a long way. It travels well. I can't recommend it enough for people who hate deodorant.

This is deodorant for you and it's not antiperspirant. You're still gonna sweat. It's just not gonna stink. And I don't know. Antiperspirant I think is bad for you. Who knows? Also, in case you all don't know, there's a sub Reddit for the show. If you want to yell at me about how alum salt is secretly bad and I just don't know.

You can find a receptive audience over in the Jordan Harbinger sub Reddit if you're a redditer. Alright, what's next?

[01:08:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys. For the last few years I've worked in sales for a roofing company. I was recently set to receive a five figure commission, but right before I was due to leave, the company fired me.

I complained to my bosses and they basically told me to get bent. I then requested a copy of my employment contract, which I had signed but didn't have a copy of, and they told me I had no contract. I reached out to a lawyer buddy of mine, and his view was that because there's no employment contract, the non-compete clause that was a part of the contract also doesn't exist.

So I called up all my clients, told them what happened, convinced them to leave my former employer, then walked those clients about a mile down the road into a brand new job with my former employers. Main competitor.

[01:08:55] Jordan Harbinger: Oh wow. I love this man. What a play. Well done. So Delish

[01:09:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: stiffing me on a five figure commission cost my former employer almost half a million dollars in potential business over the next three to four months and shredded their credibility with other contractors in the community.

Meanwhile, I'm probably bringing in about $1.5 million in new business to my new employer over the next period.

[01:09:22] Jordan Harbinger: Unreal. Talk about cutting off your nose, spite your face. What a bunch of clowns. What a shortsighted play man hoist by their own petard,

[01:09:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: and not even for a good reason, just because they don't want to pay 'em like 12 grand in commission.

So ridiculous.

[01:09:34] Jordan Harbinger: Look, unless he's not telling us something like he did something before all this to piss him off, and they're like, you owe us this. I don't know. It doesn't sound like you did. It sounds like they were just being selfish, or who knows? Maybe the company's in dire financial straits and they couldn't pay him.

But then you explain that. You come up with a payment plan, you work it out. You don't just fire somebody and tell 'em to get bent and then pretend you can't find their contract because you don't want to abide by it. Whatever the reasons, they were dicks about it and they deserve every part of this.

[01:10:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: The day after all of this went down, my old bosses magically found the contract of, of course they did.

Yeah.

[01:10:07] Jordan Harbinger: Oh,

[01:10:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: here it is.

[01:10:08] Jordan Harbinger: Right in the drawer.

[01:10:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: But my lawyer friend and I told them that they've repudiated the contract and we're out. My lawyer told me that he spoke with their attorney and that attorney could barely keep a straight face as he threatened to sue us. My friend thinks that any judge that they would bring this in front of would throw my former employer out on its ass and the attorney knows it.

[01:10:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's always fun to talk to a lawyer who knows their client's full of crap and has absolutely no recourse. You just watch them desperately tap dance while you lay out the facts.

[01:10:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Plus, this is such a big hit to the business that they now have an existential crisis on their hands and they can't focus on this.

Just wanted to share my story with you guys in case it makes you laugh. Maybe it'll also give your listeners some ideas for what to do when an employer screws you over signed res shingling my own roof, I. While making myself bulletproof, that

[01:10:57] Jordan Harbinger: sound you hear is me licking my fingers. 'cause this is so tasty, man.

What can I add to this absolute masterpiece? This is a feedback Friday Gem, real Dark Jordan play. Although it's, it's not even that dark. It's a little diabolical in the best way, but it's totally fair game. And like I said, these people almost certainly deserved it from the sound of it. What I'm taking away from this story is a few things.

First, and this goes back to the letter from our friend at the credit union, the one who's working under Diane. Relationships are everything. If you own a great relationship, you own the power. I don't mean that in a Machiavellian way. I'm not saying you should own the person. I'm saying whoever has the better relationship wins.

And in this case, you owned the relationships with these customers and you were probably well positioned to do that. Being in sales, you were their main touch point with the company. Your employment contract that they couldn't find probably says otherwise, but that doesn't matter. And I'm also willing to bet that you treated those customers pretty well before all of this happened.

And there was some trust and rapport built up there because all it took was one phone call to get them to follow you to a competitor, which says a lot about you. And that's awesome.

[01:12:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, and it's not just these customers, it's also his lawyer friend, right? That's a crucial relationship.

[01:12:04] Jordan Harbinger: Totally. There's another relationship that completely changed the game for him here, and by the way, whoever that lawyer is, take that guy to a great dinner, share a piece of your new commissions with him.

He earned it. That's a homie right there and a damn good lawyer. By the way, this other thing he said, how his old bosses shredded their credibility with the other contractors in the community because of what they did. That also goes to show how important your relationships are. Reputation is crucial.

These people shot themselves not just in the foot, but in both feet, but this is also something only people who don't take their relationships seriously would consider doing. This is why I'm always banging on about digging the well, and I'd be remiss if I didn't shamelessly use this opportunity to plug six minute networking over@sixminutenetworking.com.

Everything our friend here probably did leading up to this crisis, what he did during the crisis. It's all in the course. It's totally free and you will love the course. The other big thing I'm taking away from this letter is we can't control so much about what happens to us like being fired, but we can control how we respond to it.

And that's really the game of life. Finding the healthiest, most productive, most proactive ways of meeting adversity. Using these setbacks to catapult you into something better, or learning from them in a way that sets you up for even more success down the line. And if you can be clever and take some calculated risks when you do that, like this guy did, it can pay off massively.

So well done bud. Super proud of you. I'm gonna file this one under just fricking pay people what you owe them. And if somebody screws you, look for fun ways to turn lemons into lemonade and just keep moving forward. Such a great story. I'm super excited for you. Enjoy this new chapter and good luck. Go back and check out our episodes with the One and only David Eagleman.

Always just a favorite here on the show and our Skeptical Sunday on Feng Shui. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show. All at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Rahi, or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty. Ian Baird taught us at Laski, and of course, Gabriel Rahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Ditto Corbin. Payne. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

You are about to hear a preview of the Jordan Harbinger show with an investigative journalist that uncovers how a fraudster siphoned off billions of dollars.

[01:14:40] JHS Clip: Jolo was a kid from an island called Panang, just off the northwest of Malaysia. Very, very, very skilled networker. He was sent by his father to Harrow in the uk, which is one of the sort of most expensive boarding schools in England.

And then he went to Wharton in America. It was almost like a family con that was going on here from a very young age. They wanted their son to network. He's sort of overweight, not very good looking. Not particularly charming actually. But what he did do is he changed people's lives overnight. You know, he would drop.

$50,000 chips on the floor drunk and other people could pick them up and cash them in and that changes your life. You know what he does is after he graduates from Wharton, his childhood friend is a son of this character called Naje Brak. And Naje Razza becomes Prime Minister of Malaysia. Jolo Persuades, Naji.

He says, look, I can help transform your country by bringing all this Middle Eastern wealth in. And it sets him up as this sort of Eminence breeze or a Bengali type figure behind the Prime Minister. It's incredible 'cause he's only 27 at the time. He just took all the money out of a sovereign wealth fund overnight.

You know, when he wanted to amp it up a bit more, he forged links with his Goldman bank. Goldman Sachs helped this fund that Joah was running from behind the scenes to raise, you know, billions and billions of dollars. And Joeo just steals half of it. You know, we think he stole at least $6 billion, but Joah was an imposter for all his billions.

People still questioned. Who was this guy? Where did he come from? Why is he splashing all this money around?

[01:16:06] Jordan Harbinger: To get a deep dive into the shadowy world of corruption, money laundering, and embezzling by the shadiest shysters among the elite. Check out episode 6 0 2 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.