959: Freedom Hopes Dashed If They Find His Gun Stash | Feedback Friday

959: Freedom Hopes Dashed If They Find His Gun Stash | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. Get your baby's button to Huggies best fitting diaper. Huggies Little Movers. We got you baby.

[00:00:11] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the faux fur blanket cozying up this chaise longue of life advice, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. Nicely done on pronouncing that word correctly, finally.

[00:00:25] Jordan Harbinger: See, I am learning. I am growing. I mean, I hate that's how that's pronounced. I hate that. But I can't deny reality any longer. It's a chaise.

[00:00:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, you can't.

[00:00:32] Jordan Harbinger: And it's a longue. It's a chaise longue.

[00:00:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's a long chair. So, chaise longue.

[00:00:37] Jordan Harbinger: It's not that long.

[00:00:38] On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission on the show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. Gold smugglers, Russian spies, cold case homicide investigators, tech luminaries, Emmy nominated comedians. This week, we had Arthur Brooks on happiness. I really like this episode. I mean, Arthur Brooks is just a brilliant dude. He's always a fun conversation. We also had Alison Young on the topic of lab leaks and lab leaks throughout history. And apparently, this happens all the time. So, pushing me one step closer to believing in what I used to think was a conspiracy theory. So interesting and maybe one feel good ep and the other one not so feel good. But both interesting and worth your time.

[00:01:26] On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and mercilessly roast Gabe for his annoying pronunciation. Correct pronunciation of imported french words.

[00:01:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Such an important qualification.Thank you for throwing that in there.

[00:01:39] Jordan Harbinger: You're welcome. Before we jump in, someone asked me recently, given my interest in security and hacking and messing with the phone company when I was a kid and all that, why didn't I become an engineer? And I thought about that and from my position now as an adult, I can definitely see that it's because the tech stuff was fascinating, but I was also running from something.

[00:01:57] I liked meeting and chatting with people from other places online. I liked deconstructing things and figuring out how they worked. I liked pushing the rules and getting revenge when it was called for. But pursuing those interests, is can be a really lonely pursuit. And it can also make you experience the world and really start to view the world, in a very isolating way. And sometimes, I would get into these weird little projects to essentially avoid other work I was supposed to be doing. But now, hosting this show, I get to dabble in all that amazing stuff, enjoy all those interactions without the solitude that eventually became too much for me and a whole lot more. So, basically, the call to engineering and hacking and stuff like that, it just stopped being good for me if it ever was. Now I feel like I run to work instead of away from it, which is something I think a lot of us, at any age, really need to take stock of, whenever we're frustrated or unfulfilled or just interested in something different. So, I just thought I would share that with you guys. I don't think I'd have been suited for a desk job, most likely, anyways. I'm sure there's engineers that aren't quite desk job-y, but that's not what it seemed to me. Having my dad be a mechanical engineer, that might have also played a role in me not taking that job.

[00:03:08] So, as always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies, and I cannot wait to dive in.

[00:03:12] Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:03:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. 14 years ago, the year we got married, my husband started a small business. Seven years later, right after our first child was born, two IRS agents arrived unannounced at my husband's job site and informed him of their investigation against him for tax evasion. Two years later, after the birth of our second child, the IRS formally indicted my husband for evading taxes to the tune of over $200,000. He pleaded guilty to the charges, paid half of the money owed, surrendered his firearms and passport, but still face 12 to 18 months in federal prison.

[00:03:50] Jordan Harbinger: Oof.

[00:03:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: At the sentencing, my husband told the judge that, he didn't believe that anything he was doing in his business would risk losing his children and begged the judge to not take him away from them. The judge deemed a prison sentence an unfair punishment to our kids, decided that he wouldn't impose prison time because of his role as sole breadwinner, and gave him two years probation and restitution.

[00:04:11] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Your husband lucked out big time. What a lucky break.

[00:04:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:04:15] Jordan Harbinger: What a lucky break.

[00:04:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: I had spent every moment for two years wondering if my husband was gonna go away. Thinking through what I would need to do to keep my children safe and happy. Wondering where I would need to move us in order to have support. When the sentence of probation came outta that judge's mouth, I let out a sigh and realized I had been holding my breath the entirety of those years. Yeah, I can imagine.

[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: I bet, man. Yeah. Gosh, that must have been a really dark period. So stressful. I'm stressed hearing about it. I can only imagine what that is like for you. In fact, whenever you attempted to do something that might be along the gray area in your life, just think about people like this and you're just like, "No, no, that's okay. I'm fine. Not doing that."

[00:04:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm getting a little like sweaty over here, just imagining like that sword hanging over your head. So the letter goes on, then, recently, I decided to knock out some home projects my husband had been procrastinating on. As I was pounding a nail into a wall, I found a hollowed out section. Inside, were two hidden handguns.

[00:05:16] Jordan Harbinger: I've been waiting to use that for a long time.

[00:05:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is that Zelda?

[00:05:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's what happens when you blow open like a wall or a door and it's hidden.

[00:05:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's amazing.

[00:05:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's a secret.

[00:05:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't think that's how she felt when she found those guns though.

[00:05:28] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:05:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it was more like, dun dun duuun!

[00:05:30] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, probably a very different reaction.

[00:05:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's my understanding that part of my husband's probation is that he is not allowed to own firearms. The fact that he's hidden them in the wall instead of the lockbox in our closet or the safe in the spare room, indicates to me that he knows what he's doing is a no-no. To call something like that a no-no is just funny.

[00:05:47] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's like, it's more than a no-no, but okay. She goes on, if it comes to light that he's broken that stipulation, he'll go straight to federal prison.

[00:05:55] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man.

[00:05:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: And once his probation is over, I believe that as a felon, he is not to have firearms for the rest of his life.

[00:06:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. This is bad news.

[00:06:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Now, I'm right back to holding my breath. And I'm questioning whether he was truthful when he told me that he would never do anything to risk losing his kids. Am I wrong in thinking about the legal ramifications here? Am I wrong to question my husband's intentions? Signed, Afraid About What Might Befall, My Husband Who Has the Gall To Stash This Stuff in the Wall When It Might Very Well Be Our Downfall.

[00:06:28] Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. Okay. Well, hey, this is quite a discovery. Your husband's secretly stashing his Glocks in the walls at your house. This is some Walter White type stuff, man. It's very concerning — both legally and in terms of your family and your marriage. So, first of all, yes, as a felon, as a probationer, your husband is almost certainly not allowed to own firearms. Every state has its own provisions about this, but under federal law, felons cannot own a firearm in accordance with 18 USC code Section 922. The 1968 Gun Control Act also prohibits anyone who's been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, from owning a firearm. Now, it is possible that your state has different laws, but it's very unlikely. As far as we can tell, there are only two states where felons can get gun permits, and it's under very specific conditions. Oregon allows a person who's been found guilty of a felony by reason of insanity, to imply for a gun license, which I mean, I'm just gonna leave that one there. But that's pretty scary. It's a different episode. And North Carolina, apparently, allows a person convicted of a felony to get a permit, but only if he's been pardoned, and the permit does not violate the terms of the pardon. So basically, unless you're the governor's brother or something like that, you're not able to do this. Now, it is possible to have your gun rights restored after a conviction. The two main ways are to — One, have your felony reduced to a misdemeanor. Or two, to receive a pardon from the governor, again, of your state. But based on our research, even if you get your felony knocked down to a misdemeanor, and all likelihood, federal laws still won't allow you to own a firearm because it generally doesn't recognize post-conviction reductions or criminal record expungement. So, yeah. He should not be messing around with guns, at all. If he does ever get caught with it, and as our boy Corbin Payne explained to us — because he's already on probation, he's not entitled to the beyond a reasonable doubt standard for a probation violation. In his opinion, a minimally competent prosecutor would just argue that your husband is a bad dude, who's involved in a series of crimes that have culminated in him illegally possessing and hiding firearms and lying about having turned them in. And a judge is far less likely to show mercy to somebody who's found in possession of firearms while on probation. And remember, he turned in his other firearms, right? So ostensibly he said, "These are all the guns I've got. They're all yours now." And it's like, well, now you lied about that. So there's like contempt of court there. I mean, who knows? Depending on what state you live in, a judge can also hit him with a number of punishments. They can reinstate his probation. They can terminate his probation and impose his original suspended sentence, sending him straight to jail for what, was it 18 months? Or something like that. They can terminate his probation and impose the maximum sentence allowed by law for felony tax evasion which is, that's terrifying. And it's even possible in some states that a judge will require a felon to serve up to one year in jail as a condition for reinstating their probation. So basically, all kinds of really bad stuff can happen. Also, Corbin told us that if the state thinks it can prove you either knew about the guns or that you aided in their purchase, well you could get charged as an accessory to the charges. Or you could also get fully charged with the same crimes as your husband. So he did say that the risk of that happening — not super high. But in his experience, they're not exactly low either. So this is no joke. And you're probably right that he knows what he's doing is a — it's a no-no. Or else, he wouldn't be hiding his Smith and Wesson in the fricking basement drywall.

[00:09:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. This is incredibly reckless, honestly. He got this amazing stroke of good luck and grace from the judge at his sentencing, and here he is, probably doing something that could get him thrown in prison and separated from his kids and his wife tomorrow, which is precisely what he said he didn't want to have happen. So it does make me wonder whether this speaks to your husband's intentions, possibly his character. At a minimum, it paints a picture for me of a guy who — first of all, yes, pretty reckless, who's not very respectful of the law. Who seems to be willing to tempt fate and risk losing his family for this. And yes, it does make me wonder if he was telling the truth to you and to the judge when he said that he would never do anything, knowingly, to risk losing his kids.

[00:10:33] Now, I suppose it's possible that he's just kind of ignorant about the law or the conditions of his probation, and he is not intentionally putting you guys at risk. I suppose it's also possible that the — look, let's explore every possibility here, Jordan. Could it be that the guns were there before his conviction?

[00:10:50] Although, even that doesn't really let him off the hook. Because he should remember them and turn them over. But that's possible.

[00:10:55] Jordan Harbinger: Right. I know what you're saying. But it's also — hey, maybe it's possible the previous owner of the property left them there. Do we know these are his guns? I'm just considering every possibility here because to hide guns on drywall is — that's a little extreme.

[00:11:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Theoretically possible. But I would say, probably not very likely. Because I would imagine that person would want to take them with them.

[00:11:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Unless they died or something and they bought the house in estate sale.

[00:11:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: True.

[00:11:16] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, who knows? I just find it strange that he's keeping them in the wall, behind drywall.

[00:11:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:11:20] Jordan Harbinger: What good are they there? That might support the idea he doesn't know they're there. Because it's not like, if you say, "Oh, I need guns for defense." Well, the place to leave them is not behind a bunch of drywall that you have to bash in with a sledgehammer if somebody's invading your home. That's not useful. It's like some John Wick stuff, where he is gotta tear up the living room floor to get his weapon stashed. It doesn't make any sense.

[00:11:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, that might support the idea that they're not there for immediate protection, but perhaps for some long-term. Who knows? Apocalypse preparation slash doomsday scenario, which you know, now that we're talking about it, that could fit with the tax evasion.

[00:11:55] Jordan Harbinger: Like, is he a doomsday prepper who believes the government's fall is imminent? We're on the verge of anarchy. Uncle Sam's no help. So I'm gonna stash my guns in the wall and not pay taxes because I really don't have to. I'm a sovereign citizen. I mean, who knows what's going on there. She didn't say anything like that, but you know, maybe she doesn't know.

[00:12:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do wonder if that's what's happening. And if so, he might be so committed to that worldview and who knows why he holds those views. Maybe he has some legitimate concerns. But if he believes that, he might continue to make decisions that seem rational to him, but that do put his family's future at risk.

[00:12:25] Jordan Harbinger: Well, if that's the case, this is definitely concerning. Hey, you got a tank full of diesel fuel that you keep fresh in the backyard for the apocalypse, fine. You are not gonna get your kids removed from your custody or end up in federal prison because that, depending on, I don't know, how you store the gas. But regardless of his feelings about this country, part of his job as a father, a husband, a probationer, is to not be completely mindless about this stuff. If he's not being super careful, he is kind of, by definition, being an idiot because he's on thin ice, already.

[00:12:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. So, you gotta talk to your husband about this and you have to tell him — well first of all, "Yo, I found these guns in the wall, bro. So are they yours? Or what's the deal?" And if they are his, then you have to remind him what the consequences are if you were ever caught with these firearms. And maybe you point out that this makes you wonder whether he was sincere when he said that, you know, I never knowingly risked losing my kids and I didn't want this to happen. And then, I would probably ask him point blank, "What are you thinking? What's the logic here? Why would you do this?" I personally cannot think of a good answer to those questions right now. Maybe he has one, the anarchy prep explanation, for example. But, then you guys need to get clear on how you're living as a family and what's more important — his holding onto secret guns and money or staying on the right side of the law while he's on probation, and actually probably for the rest of his life, so he doesn't go to prison.

[00:13:46] And then I would tell him what you expect going forward, which I think is probably some version of, "I can't live in this house or stay married to you if you're gonna put me and the kids at risk like this. You gotta get rid of the guns or we need to rethink some things. I mean, look, I don't mean to tell you what to decide. It's up to you to decide what you can put up with. If I were in your shoes, I would be very concerned about being married to, or even living with somebody who's doing something like this."

[00:14:10] Jordan Harbinger: So would I. Yeah. They need to talk and get clear on this. Gonna be a fascinating conversation. And then I, of course, think you need to get rid of the guns. The question is, how do you do that without getting into trouble? Right? And of course, dark Jordan wants to say, you file the serial numbers off and you throw 'em in a lake. But, Corbin has told us that most police departments, not legal advice, for me anyway, Corbin, on the other hand, has told us that most police departments have a surrender program where you can turn stuff in, no questions asked. I would Google that program in your state. See if you can safely get rid of them that way. Otherwise, maybe try reaching out to a gun control group and get their input on what to do with the weapons. Corbin said those kinds of groups are good hubs for information like this. And I am very sorry that your husband's handling his probation this way. This is extremely concerning. Probably very hurtful to you. And I think you need to wake him up here and recognize that he's living in a pretty reckless way, at least in terms of keeping you and your family safe. But in the bigger picture, I think you need to consider whether you're gonna continue putting yourself at risk by this tendency in your husband to basically, thumb his nose at the law and whether you can live with that. I'm wishing you the best. I hope you can keep your husband on the straight and narrow. And actually, I hope they're not his guns. And he's shocked that they're there and then you get rid of them. That's what I really hope.

[00:15:29] You know what's a great use of all that money you saved by evading federal taxes, Gabriel? Supporting some of the sponsors that make this show possible. We'll be right back.

[00:15:40] This episode is sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Navigating relationships requires effort. Debunking the myth that they gotta be effortless to be right. BetterHelp is transformed therapy access, making it a vital tool for anyone claiming to enhance their relationships and personal growth. This online platform fits into your life offering therapy sessions from anywhere, tailored to your schedule. Getting started with BetterHelp is straightforward. A quick questionnaire connects you with a licensed therapist suited to your needs. If you need a change, switching therapist is hassle-free at no additional charge. Considering therapy? BetterHelp's convenience and flexibility make it an excellent choice for improving your relationships and overall wellbeing in a manageable way.

[00:16:13] Jen Harbinger: Become your own soulmate, whether you're looking for one or not. Visit betterhelp.com/jordan today to get 10 percent off your first month. That's betterH-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:16:23] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Huggies. There's some every parent deals with but doesn't talk about. Diapers. Huggies gets it. They know babies aren't one-size-fits-all, especially their cute little butts. And that's exactly why we stock up on Huggies Little Movers diapers. What makes Huggies Little Movers stand out is all about the fit. The diapers are designed to curve and stretch, ensuring a snug fit for your active tots and Ill-fitting diaper. Wow, it's a parent's nightmare. I can speak from personal experience. There's no escapee poop chunks with these folks. Our kid is constantly on the go. These diapers keep up providing comfort, no matter the activity level. Plus, the up to 12-hour leak protection. It's nothing short of a win and a worry-free night. Sure, the diaper might weigh five pounds in the morning, but the bedsheets remain dry as a bone. So, if you're in the trenches of parenthood, looking for a diaper that's gonna make life just a tad easier, Huggies Little Movers is where it's at.

[00:17:05] Jen Harbinger: Get your baby's butt into Huggies best fitting diaper, Huggies Little Movers. We got you, baby.

[00:17:10] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the sponsors and the show, are all searchable and clickable at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support us. That's a lot of support.

[00:17:23] Now, back to feedback Friday.

[00:17:27] All right, next up.

[00:17:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've worked at my white-collar job for three years, and since I was hired during the pandemic, it was fully remote work. I successfully accomplished my tasks while working remotely. In fact, I consistently received superior performance ratings, and I much prefer working from home. But, the writing is on the wall for my company to demand that everybody return to office. Ugh. Whomp whomp.

[00:17:51] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: The thing is, I have narcolepsy, which I typically manage with medication. But I just got pregnant, so I've stopped the medication. This is my second pregnancy, and I remember well my constant fatigue, and two to three naps a day. I never reported my narcolepsy or requested accommodations the first time, and I was able to take my naps without it affecting my work, or anyone noticing. My sleep doctor said that they'll write me a note for my necessary accommodations for — A, naps. That's really funny as an adult to get a note from your doctor saying, "Naps, she needs them." And B, not needing to drive to the office. They won't mention that I'm pregnant. Do you have any advice for how the letter needs to be worded so that it secures the accommodations I want and need without reflecting badly on me? When do you think I should submit this letter? Should I do it now, preemptively or wait till it's absolutely necessary? And do you think it would be possible to leverage this as a permanent arrangement for full-time remote work? Since the note won't reveal that I'm pregnant, my company won't know that it's temporary or that it doesn't apply anymore unless I tell them. Would it be unethical or illegal of me to just not tell them, when I'm eventually back on medication? Signed, Blocking Off, Time To Talk About Nodding Off, When I'm Up The Duff, But Not Falling Off.

[00:19:05] Jordan Harbinger: Well, congrats on baby number two. That is super exciting. I am very sorry to hear that your company's hinting at bringing everyone back to the office. It's a bummer. I know, I'm biased as a podcaster, for recently recorded Feedback Friday basically without a shirt on. Not basically. I did without a shirt on.

[00:19:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm gonna say, who are you to talk about return — to office.

[00:19:21] Jordan Harbinger: That's right.

[00:19:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: You're so a work from home person. It's, uh, borderline inappropriate.

[00:19:25] Jordan Harbinger: It is borderline inappropriate. So the whole full-time, return to office thing, it seems so lame and unnecessary in many cases.

[00:19:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: It sucks.

[00:19:31] Jordan Harbinger: I realize though, that "I'm pregnant and narcoleptic, so I regularly not often Zoom meetings." Is a bit of a niche question. But so many people have to navigate pregnancy at work and are trying to keep their sweet, sweet work from home situation. So I thought we would take this one on. By the way, I used to — , I still have a family friend who is an narcoleptic and I didn't know what that was, really, because I was a little kid. But then one day, my parents had them over for dinner. This is close friends of our family. And he fell asleep, with a salad fork in his mouth while eating. And just passed out. And I'm like, "Whoa, what happened?" And they're like, "Tim has narcolepsy." I've never seen anything like that in my life. Like, how you fall aslee —

[00:20:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: How long did — was it — did he not often then wake up immediately? Or was he just sitting there?

[00:20:16] Jordan Harbinger: No, he had to be woken up by his wife. He just had a fork hanging out of his mouth. It was so funny. And I mean —

[00:20:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Did she leave him there for five minutes or 10 minutes or what?

[00:20:23] Jordan Harbinger: No. No. And he used to take the train home from work. He used to work in Detroit, probably with my dad or whatever. And he would take the train home from work and he would fall asleep on the train like every day and just end up in Flint.

[00:20:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:20:35] Jordan Harbinger: And Flint is like not a great place to be, right? Especially at night.

[00:20:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it's not. Yeah.

[00:20:38] Jordan Harbinger: He'd be like, "Uh..." And his wife, she's blind. So he'd be like, "Can you pick me up?" And she's like, "I'm blind. Do you want me to drive at night and go to Flint and pick your ass up, dude."

[00:20:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: What a pair these two make. Wow.

[00:20:51] Jordan Harbinger: I know.

[00:20:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's so funny.

[00:20:52] Jordan Harbinger: They're absolutely, they're so funny. They're the nicest people ever.

[00:20:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: And he didn't want to take medication?

[00:20:56] Jordan Harbinger: I think he eventually did. Yeah. I mean, it was, of course.

[00:20:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I imagine, you can't keep going to Flint every day when you're trying to get home.

[00:21:02] Jordan Harbinger: No. She could barely see. I mean, there's no way she was, you know, gonna be able to do that drive.

[00:21:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man. That's so funny. I dunno why that I'm laughing so hard.

[00:21:09] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, absolutely. And and he's also like a zany guy. So, of course, everyone like thinks he's kidding and then they're like, "Nope. No, he's definitely unconscious."

[00:21:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: I wish he would write into Feedback Friday. That'd be lovely. He's probably gotten himself into a few pickles.

[00:21:21] Jordan Harbinger: I am sure of that. So, alright, we wanted an expert's opinion here. So we reached out to Joanna Tate, friend of the show and HR professional for almost 20 years. And Joanna's first thought was, she's not sure why you would want to avoid telling your employer about the pregnancy, and that makes sense to me. Hey, you'd need time off during. You need time off afterwards. They're gonna have to know eventually. Her advice is to not wait too long to notify your employer about that. As for the narcolepsy, Joanna imagines that that would be considered a disability, which means you're covered by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, the ADA. Based on our research, it does sound like narcolepsy can meet the criteria for a disability. So a quick legal aside here, I'm gonna keep it brief. The Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination based on gender, ethnicity, nationality. Title VII, was later amended by something called the Pregnant Workers' Fairness Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions. It also requires reasonable accommodation for an employee's limitations related to pregnancy and childbirth. The ADA protects you too. It prevents discrimination against people with physical or mental impairments that limit major life activities. The ADA includes pregnancy as a temporary disability, as well as any condition caused by pregnancy. On top of all that, the Family and Medical Leave Act allows you to take up to 12 weeks of unpaid time off for the birth of a child, caring for a newborn and incapacity due to pregnancy. And some states offer additional maternity leave benefits on top of all that. So, you are pretty well protected here. And your employer cannot legally change your employment status based solely on the pregnancy or the narcolepsy. So, Joanna's suggestion is to be strategically honest about your needs regarding both physical conditions. At the same time, she does not advise telling them about the narcolepsy and then down the road being like, "Oh BTW, I'm also six months pregnant." In her experience, it's just way better to be upfront. But that's her opinion. She doesn't know the vibe at your company. Maybe there's a reason you're uncomfortable telling people about your pregnancy, I don't know. But in general, she would use the pregnancy to report the narcolepsy sooner rather than later.

[00:23:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And the way she would do that is, start by going to HR and ask to apply for Family and Medical Leave. There will be some standard documents to take to your OBGYN. They'll answer some questions confirming that you will need a leave of absence due to pregnancy. They can also include the fact that you've had to eliminate the narcolepsy medication due to pregnancy. At the same time, Joanna said that you can ask your sleep doctor or your neurologist to send documentation to your company as a follow-up. And then you can explain to the HR person like, "Hey, my narcolepsy affects my pregnancy and vice versa. So I decided to provide that information to you guys as well." Ideally, your sleep doctor or your neurologist states that — A, you've been diagnosed with narcolepsy. B, the condition affects your ability to drive safely. And C, the condition causes this daytime fatigue. At that point, HR should engage you in a dialogue about your medical needs and then offer you the accommodations that the company can reasonably provide. So that might be work from home. It might be flexible hours. It might be, you know, more time to complete projects, whatever you end up needing. Joanna said that if you've been able to work remotely this whole time, it makes sense to her that remote work would be a reasonable accommodation. But she did say that somebody in HR might get kind of cute and suggest, you know, like, "Hey, you should just Uber to work every day, or you should ride the bus. Or hey, go take naps in the bathroom at work when you need to, or whatever." In her opinion, those are the kinds of suggestions that take the human out of human resources, which I gotta say, says a lot about Joanna. But just something to be prepared for if there's a real Toby in your HR department. After that, HR should then go to your supervisor and say, "Hey, these are the accommodations we're providing this person. We don't want her falling asleep on I-75 on our way to work." But Joanna did say that they should generally keep the reasons confidential from your supervisor. Just keep in mind that your pregnancy will obviously be revealed, eventually, because you'll be gone for a period of time. But the narcolepsy doesn't necessarily need to be reported to your supervisor if you don't want them to know.

[00:25:30] Jordan Harbinger: Now, about keeping this remote work thing going forever, which I can get behind that. We don't know whether your remote arrangement is truly in jeopardy yet. But that's why Joanna suggests reporting your pregnancy and narcolepsy at the same time. But she'd take this step by step. First, report your conditions. Then confirm that you're approved for the accommodations. Then wait to see if they ask everyone to return to the office. If they do, then you talk with HR again. See if you can keep your accommodation due to narcolepsy. By then, it'll already be documented, right? It'll help your case out a lot. It won't just be like, "We need everyone to return to the office. Oh, suddenly I have narcolepsy in a newborn and I can't take the medication because I'm breastfeeding." Like we — you don't wanna do that. As we're just not telling them, when you go back on medication, Joanna said your company will rely on your doctor's documentation. If they say that you need an accommodation, then it's fair and legal. If they say you don't need an accommodation when you're medicated, but you ask the doctor to write your company a note saying otherwise, well, that would be unethical on your side, but it's not illegal. In Joanna's experience, if HR finds out you're lying, it probably is not going to look good on you. But again, you don't even know if you're required to go back to the office, so you might be worrying here before you have to worry. One concern at a time is my theory here. And congrats, again, on the baby.

[00:26:47] I hope the pregnancy goes smoothly. I hope they let you keep working from home so you can hang with your little one and you can take your medically required two to five naps a day or whatever. Good luck. And damn do I want a doctor's note for naps at work. I mean, I own the company and I can take naps whenever I want, but I still want a doctor's note, that I can hand to myself.

[00:27:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. And then turn around and deny it.

[00:27:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I will. I would deny it. I'm not playing favorites, even with myself.

[00:27:11] You can reach us, friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're shrink tried to seduce you, or you're being stalked and harassed by a crazy parent, or you just found out that your boyfriend slept with your sister before you guys started dating. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up, friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:27:36] Okay, what's next?

[00:27:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've been with my fiance for six years. We have a 4-year-old together and three combined teenagers from previous relationships. While our teen boys have adjusted to everything smoothly, his 18-year-old daughter has never accepted me and actually outright hates me. My partner's ex-wife openly badmouthed him to her kids and told them when they were tweens, that he had cheated on her. The daughter exhibits the same behavior — hating her father, seeing me as a problem and saying things like, I need to quote-unquote, "Stay in my lane." When she gets upset, even at the slightest frustration, such as not being able to figure out paperwork for college, it's a level 10 rage blowup. She curses out her father and tells him, "F*ck you" and we all walk on eggshells around her. She does these things in front of my 4-year-old. And sometimes, I feel like she holds us all hostage with her rage. I've said things like, "Let's calm down, or do you have to curse so much, or do you have to act that way?" and I admit that I've inserted myself where I perhaps shouldn't have. Outside of those instances though, I walk on eggshells around her. I try to be nice. I apologize to her. I make her vegetarian versions of dinner, stuff like that. Then when she cools off, she's fun. She seems in control and she butters up to daddy. I've been trying to encourage my partner to get her therapy, which he takes as criticism, snides at and considers irrelevant. He sees her behavior as something that she'll grow out of, whereas I see it as exhibiting signs of borderline personality disorder. He's a good dad and has given her everything she's ever wanted.

[00:29:16] He stays calm and rational most of the time, but he's also let her carry on this way with no consequences. He bought her a $30,000 car and pays her insurance. She's only ever held a summer job before and has no initiative to work. She is an amazing student, an athlete, however, and works hard at that. Outside of her sport though, she has no friends. Then, over the holidays, my partner randomly brought home a puppy without asking me. The dog bit ankles, and every time my toddler ran past him, he bit him. In the face, on the hand and not just puppy biting. We had scheduled to rehome the dog, but my partner's daughter had really bonded with it and convinced him not to. So, we tried for a few more weeks until I couldn't do it anymore. Unfortunately, my partner rehomed the dog on a weekend, when his daughter was outta town and didn't tell her.

[00:30:07] Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. Okay. Well, here we go. I am already tensing for what is gonna happen after this. What a knucklehead.

[00:30:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: I told him this was a terrible idea, but I did nothing to stop it. I was only thinking of myself and the relief I would feel with the dog gone. Lo and behold, when she got back in town, she flew into an emergency level rage and had an emotional breakdown. She was so upset, she actually vomited. She's been staying with her mom ever since. And my partner told me that I can't talk to her or interact with her if she comes by. My guilt is deep. We could have handled this so much more thoughtfully. But I never wanted a dog, and now I'm the fall guy. Later that day, she sent me a text message that said, "You really fucked up this time, bitch. Just get ready. It's not gonna be pretty and I'm not gonna make it any easier. You're in my house now, bitch. And we're gonna play it my way. You're in for a treat. You haven't seen how ugly I can get."

[00:31:03] Jordan Harbinger: Holy smoke. That is an intense text. That is psycho. Wow.

[00:31:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: That escalated quickly, as we like to say. So she is not just angry, she's out for blood.

[00:31:14] Jordan Harbinger: My God. I mean, this dog thing was a total mess from the start.

[00:31:17] We'll get into that. But this message is — this seems very disproportionate. Very dysregulated. It's actually quite scary.

[00:31:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: It is. I'm a bit freaked out by that message.

[00:31:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:31:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: No wonder she doesn't have friends. Geez.

[00:31:28] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay. Well, the letter goes on, in total shock, I went to my parents' house and had an extreme breakdown.

[00:31:35] My partner resents my taking the threatening text so seriously. And while he apologized for her behavior, he also blew it off as her being her and said she'll cool down.

[00:31:46] Jordan Harbinger: I'm sorry, but what does that even mean? "This is just her being her. Oh, she just violently threatens people when she's upset, NBD. We all walk on eggshells around her and can't do anything about it. Well, we just suck it up and pretend it didn't happen."

[00:31:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I don't understand. That's the problem. This is her being her. You know, like, who she actually is as a human being, apparently.

[00:32:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Look, she's 18. This is not a 13-year-old going through puberty and having major temper tantrums that she can't control and she'll even out. My toddler, he has meltdowns and stuff like that and I know he doesn't wanna be in that situation. And then he calms down and everything's fine. But this is not that. She's an adult. I have a lot of thoughts about her partner and his daughter, but I'm a hold off for now.

[00:32:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: So the letter goes on, now my partner doesn't wanna marry me.

[00:32:26] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Okay. So he really went from zero to 60, huh? But also, like talk about avoidance.

[00:32:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Well, straight to "We're breaking up."

[00:32:34] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:32:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's very interesting.

[00:32:35] Jordan Harbinger: Very mature.

[00:32:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Very telling. Yeah. Now my partner doesn't wanna marry me. And I told him I wanna leave because he's shown me, and has said to me, that his priority is his daughter and he will always support her. Am I making a mistake leaving and not fighting for us? Or am I bearing my head in the sand, and overlooking major red flags? Should I reach out to his daughter and try to make amends? And if we do split up, and eventually share custody of our youngest son, can I enforce her not being around him? Signed, Feeling Foggy and Ensnared and Getting Strappy and Scared After This Doggy Affair?

[00:33:11] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. This is such a tough family dynamic. It's pretty fascinating but it is heartbreaking. And honestly, it's pretty unsettling. I'm having some strong reactions to this story. I don't know about you, Gabe.

[00:33:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah, big time. This daughter, man. This is a very difficult personality to manage, to be around, to live with.

[00:33:29] There's actually — it's funny, there's somebody in my family who is like this. Almost to a T. And she has basically driven everybody away except her husband and her kids who are too young to understand. She's driven away her mom to a large degree and it's just like, yeah, we don't talk to this person because she's kind of miserable all the time. And she's vicious. And the most alarming thing, is she's very unpredictable.

[00:33:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:33:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: So you never know when it's gonna go off.

[00:33:52] Jordan Harbinger: That's unfortunate. But — and who needs the grief, you know? We're adults. We all have stuff going on. Who needs extra crap going on? Nobody.

[00:33:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I can't help but feel like our friend here was kind of set up to fail in this family.

[00:34:04] Jordan Harbinger: Definitely. Look, this girl is a nightmare and I'm just gonna say it. And we're kind of hearing the math of how her personality developed. The divorce was probably pretty traumatic. Her mother sounds very toxic. She has a real rage problem. So, in a way — of course, I feel for this girl, because you don't become this way unless something very troubling happened to you and/or you have some preexisting psychiatric issues, which might also be playing a role here. The BPD label is interesting. It certainly fits with a lot of the behavior you've described and also with your whole walking on eggshells response to things. But, I also know that there are people with BPD who do not act this way. And who understand how to work with their moods and communicate their feelings. So I'm not sure that we can just pin this all on a possible BPD label. And also, we shouldn't paint all people who have BPD with like, Oh, they're gonna be a nightmare. And they're outta control. And you can't be around them." Like, that's just not the case at all. But whatever her diagnosis, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that she's in a lot of pain. She struggles to make sense of her feelings. She isn't able to regulate herself. And she's projecting a lot of those volatile feelings onto you. I am guessing, it's because you're the easiest target here as stepmom. You're the interloper. She knows you don't like her. She doesn't have the tools to approach you or her dad and say, "I'm really angry at you guys. Let's talk about it." Instead, she's creating a toxic household. She's subjecting your other kids to her rage. She's kind of torturing herself, also. It's awful, and it makes me super sad. Especially for you because — A, this was already in motion before you got together with your partner. B, it sounds like outside of a few moments of getting mad and pushing back, which I mean, how can you not? Aside from the dog thing, which I want to get to in a second, you've been remarkably kind and caring and accommodating to this girl. And C, you just seem to get the brunt of her anger. And your partner, I mean, well —

[00:35:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I mean, he is enabling her.

[00:36:00] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah. That's a — I was searching for the words. A 100 percent, he's enabling her. In a very troubling way. She's on this whole Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde thing. And he's working very hard to just look the other way, keep things on an even keel, avoid provoking her. Possibly the same strategy he used with his ex-wife. Just saying. That dynamic is extremely common with this personality, and it is super problematic, obviously. I mean, saying that her behavior is something she'll grow out of, so it's not something that they just need to address at all. That's very telling, especially when she's an adult now. I mean, maybe that works when they're 11, but it doesn't work when they're 18. And I find it strange because — well, first off, how does he know she's gonna grow out of it? There's no indication of that.

[00:36:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:43] Jordan Harbinger: Not at all, anywhere. But even if she does grow out of it, that doesn't mean it's not a problem now. For God's sake. Come on.

[00:36:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: And it doesn't mean that he shouldn't be trying to talk to her about why she's having these meltdowns and how she's showing up in their family and how it's affecting their relationship.

[00:36:56] Jordan Harbinger: Also, his stance on therapy is just — I don't wanna be too insulting, but what a bonehead brain-dead take on therapy. It's irrelevant. Which first of all, not even the right word to use when you're talking. It is very relevant. Maybe you think it's ineffective. Anyway, not to argue semantics but — and then he snides at it. It's like, "Okay, well you've done such a great job managing your household, divorce guy with a daughter who can't stay at home and regulate her emotions. Maybe you don't — you clearly don't need therapy. That's for other people with real problems." What a dipsh*t.

[00:37:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, yes, quite. And obviously, not a show fan of our —

[00:37:29] Jordan Harbinger: No. This dude ain't cranking The Jordan Harbinger Show in the car anytime.

[00:37:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, he is not. This dude is not using our BetterHelp discount code anytime soon.

[00:37:36] Jordan Harbinger: No.

[00:37:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway.

[00:37:37] Jordan Harbinger: Good hint drop there, though. I appreciate that. My guess is that telling him that his daughter needs therapy, I think it's just very uncomfortable for him. I think it's kind of threatening for him. Because hey, sending her to therapy might mean finally admitting that his daughter really is or has a problem. Or hey, it might worse for him, right? It might mean admitting that his parenting, is maybe not that great when it comes to this. And maybe he can't handle that.

[00:38:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or maybe the idea that his daughter would talk to a therapist about him.

[00:38:04] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah.

[00:38:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or his partner or the whole family, that might make him uneasy. I'm also guessing that he's not a fan of being vulnerable, in general.

[00:38:11] Jordan Harbinger: Whatever his reasons, he's clearly avoiding this whole problem. So it wouldn't surprise me if somebody who's like that, also doesn't want anybody else to know how screwed up the family is.

[00:38:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:38:21] Jordan Harbinger: You've painted a picture of a guy, who either can't see his daughter clearly or is burying his head in the sand. I also suspect that he's secretly terrified of her, and it does sound like she might know how to manipulate him on many levels.

[00:38:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you know, Jordan, I kind of feel for him too. Because as hard as this is for our friend here, it's even more complex for him. He has a very difficult child, a very complicated child. He's dealt with her much longer than our friend here has. And he clearly doesn't know how to respond to her. I mean, it's gotta be pretty painful to recognize that your own child is struggling, and is also hurting everybody around her.

[00:38:56] Jordan Harbinger: Fair enough. I'm just frustrated with him because he's half of the dynamic, but I guess I do get why this is so daunting for him too.

[00:39:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: So, let's talk about the dog, shall we?

[00:39:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, please. So fascinating and such a microcosm of this guy's whole parenting style in an — it's just, yeah. Amazing.

[00:39:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: First of all, the fact that your partner brought a puppy home without asking you is very interesting already. This feels irresponsible and unthoughtful at best. And disrespectful and misattuned at worst. Taking care of a puppy, especially one that has behavioral issues, is a huge commitment. Before you make a decision like that, you ask your partner and probably your children too. "Hey, is everybody on board with having a dog who's gonna need a lot of training and a lot of attention?" You don't just swing by Petco on your way home one day, on a whim and adopt a crazy puppy and bring it home like, "Surprise!"

[00:39:47] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, first of all, a dude probably got it for free because the breeder was like, "Yeah, this is the one that bites everyone, and I'm not gonna put in the time to fix that." He's like, "I'll take it home to my toddler." I mean, this guy's a knucklehead.

[00:39:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: This one falls asleep with a spoon in his mouth, so —

[00:39:59] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:39:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: You can't do anything with it. Just take it.

[00:40:01] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. You don't bring home an agro puppy that bites when you've got a toddler in the house, dude. Come on. That's reckless.

[00:40:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:06] Jordan Harbinger: I've had a couple friends who had to rehome their dogs when they had kids because the dogs were biters. I think — was it Bill Burr, the comedian? He had to do this with his pit bull?

[00:40:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:40:14] Jordan Harbinger: Because he had a daughter and he was like, "Eh, I don't really want her to get murdered by the dog."

[00:40:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right.

[00:40:18] Jordan Harbinger: Man, it's incredibly sad. And ideally you get the dog properly trained rather than re-home it, but sometimes it's very necessary. I mean, you gotta put a child first. What are you thinking, dude?

[00:40:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: And by bringing this puppy home without thinking it through or talking to anybody, he also set his daughter up to fall in love with it, which is also reckless. And honestly, I find that a little bit cruel.

[00:40:36] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. If I were her, I would be devastated too. I totally understand why she bonded with the dog and now she's pissed. I get it. It's dad's fault for putting her in this situation.

[00:40:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. He created a situation where his daughter could bond with this cute puppy, and then he took the puppy away from her. So this is another very interesting thing because this might also speak to the part of your partner that doesn't always consider or empathize with or relate to other people very well. I mean, does this whole dog thing also help explain why he is having trouble appreciating why his daughter has hurt you so badly? Does it maybe explain why he overlooks or discounts her behavior a lot of the time?

[00:41:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's — I'm wondering, does this guy struggle to appreciate other people's thoughts and feelings in general? Candidly, this guy just seems clueless. Tone deaf, at the very least.

[00:41:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: If so, that is a crucial piece of data about your partner. But maybe the most important part of this story is that he went ahead and re-homed the dog when his daughter was out of town.

[00:41:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:41:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm still wrapping the hat around this.

[00:41:32] Jordan Harbinger: That's the kicker. That was a terrible idea for so many obvious reasons that we don't really even need to explain.

[00:41:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, we don't. But also what a telling strategy, right?

[00:41:42] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's just — I think you said this during the letter, it's another instance of this avoidance of his. He could have sat down with his daughter and explained to her why the puppy wasn't working out. Why they had to prioritize the 4-year-old and allowed her, given her a chance to say a proper goodbye. But instead, he just gave it away while she was out of town,

[00:42:00] Jordan Harbinger: Which he must have known on some level is gonna be a disaster. What did he think was gonna happen? How could the moment she comes home and finds out he gave away her dog, be better than telling her in advance? I just — I do not understand this dude. It's like, "Oh, that's a problem for future me." I don't envy that guy.

[00:42:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, in his mind, he's sparing her, but he didn't spare her at all. He made it so much worse.

[00:42:21] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Because he was just sparing himself. This guy is dodging difficult conversations, left and right. Minimizing it like, "Oh, I don't need therapy. That might be hard." That's what he really means, right? "I don't wanna work this out with you. I'm just gonna say, 'Well, that's how she is. I'm not gonna straighten my daughter out. That'll turn into a fight. I'm not gonna tell her about — '" I mean, this over and over and over, this guy's doing this.

[00:42:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:42:42] Jordan Harbinger: Things just keep getting worse. This is his pattern. He either doesn't notice it or can't do anything about it and refuses to do anything about it, by the way. Which is even worse.

[00:42:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly right. But, it's also very interesting that you didn't stop him from rehoming the dog while she was away.

[00:42:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Okay. I'm getting the feeling that she was watching that iceberg approach and she was like, "Okay, this is gonna be bad, but maybe, I kind of want it to be bad. And I also certainly want the dog out of here."

[00:43:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Look, I believe you when you say that you were prioritizing yourself there, and fair enough. But I wonder if there was something else in the mix there too. Was this a subtle way to get back at your partner's daughter? To maybe give her a taste of her own medicine? Where you may be trying to press the issue with your partner by sitting back and letting him do something that you knew would blow up in his face?

[00:43:27] Jordan Harbinger: My money's on that. I think she passively sort of engineered, and I'm using engineered lightly. Because this is the guy who did everything here. But I think she passively sort of engineered a situation where her partner, he was gonna mess this up so bad with his daughter.

[00:43:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:40] Jordan Harbinger: So then, maybe, he would finally be on the receiving end of her rage, justifiably so. And maybe, just maybe, he'd finally learn a lesson. But obviously that did not happen.

[00:43:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: If that's true, there's a wish buried in that decision.

[00:43:52] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right? And the wish might have been, "I hope he finally sees his daughter for who she is. And also more importantly, I hope he finally experiences what I experience. So he's forced to finally appreciate what I'm dealing with here."

[00:44:05] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Honestly, I get that a 100 percent. I do.

[00:44:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: I do too. And I'm not trying to add to your guilt here because I know it's heavy. I'm just inviting you to consider what else might have been going on for you in that decision, in that moment. The strategies that you've resorted to, in order to get your partner to see his family the way you do.

[00:44:21] Jordan Harbinger: Right. But then that text message, I'm still kind of stunned by that. It's just psycho.

[00:44:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's shocking. If I got a message like that, I think I'd be pretty, pretty shook.

[00:44:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, of course. Like I said, that's not just anger, it's vitriol. It's a desire for vengeance. I'm just hearing a real struggle for power in that message.

[00:44:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. She wants to win. I don't know how seriously to take that message. I mean, maybe it's just bluster. She's really worked up. I mean, she has these just rage episodes, so she might have just fired that off when she was in a — as she put it, level 10 rage. But when you say something like that, you really are going, "It's you versus me." And you know, like, "This town, I'm big enough for the two of us." kind of thing.

[00:44:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. She's not just finding an opponent in her stepmother, she's finding an enemy. Maybe she's just puffed up right now. She's talking a big talk. My guess is she's very hurt and feels out of control and her knee jerk response is just to project that out in the form of rage, which is not healthy. It's very aggressive. It's very ominous.

[00:45:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: The other interesting thing about this text is that she's angry at you, not her father when he's the one who brought home the puppy and then rehomed the puppy without telling her. So, is she getting mad at you because you didn't speak up and then she feels betrayed by you? If that's true, that's actually kind of fascinating. Because in there, is a wish also to be considered and protected by the very person she seems to be lashing out against. Or is she doing that because you're just safer to get mad at. Because she has less to lose by alienating you. But you know, she can't afford to piss off her dad.

[00:45:47] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I wanna see dad's text messages. There's a decent part of me that says, she confronted her dad and dad was like, "Oh my God, this is gonna be awkward. I'm just gonna blame my partner. And it was all her idea. She made me get rid of the dog." I mean, that would just be right on brand for this guy.

[00:46:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Or she let dad off the hook completely and went straight to stepmom, in which case — I mean, look, she's probably mad at both of them, but I do feel like the politics are different between her father and her potential mother.

[00:46:13] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Look, stepmom was already the target of her rage already. So maybe it's just easier to direct your anger at the person she already kind of hates. For all these reasons, the deck really is stacked against her in this family. And then your partner's reaction to the text also makes me really frustrated. Why does he resent you for taking his daughter's scary texts seriously rather than being concerned that his daughter sent it?

[00:46:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point.

[00:46:36] Jordan Harbinger: Why resent you for feeling angry and hurt and scared rather than, you know, appreciating that his daughter is shaking you up so badly? And it's — you're not having an out of proportion, reaction to this. It's not like she was like, "I don't like you. I don't wanna see you again." And you're like, "I'm shaking." It's like, she sent you a psycho message and you're like, "What the hell? Do something about this. And he is like, "Oh, you're overreacting because I don't wanna deal with emotions in the house." No.

[00:46:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's getting it from all angles here. And then, she's not getting it from angles she deserves to be getting it like, "I wanna sit down and have some difficult conversations about this." It sucks. And it's like, how long do you put up with this? This breakdown that our friend here had makes sense to me. I think this has been building for a very long time. And the whole puppy debacle just brought everything to the surface.

[00:47:21] Jordan Harbinger: So, what you're responding to here, is about so much more than your stepdaughter. She's the most obvious source of dysfunction and she's clearly a huge challenge. But I think what you're actually coming to terms with, which is very painful and probably very alarming, is how your partner relates to you. How he empathizes with you and understands you or doesn't, and what position you hold in his life. Every single detail of your letter, speaks to more fundamental qualities. To some core values in your partner. Namely, his ability to navigate conflict, how he parents, how he communicates. If you guys are misaligned on these things, you will continue to encounter significant challenges in your relationship. Whether it's his daughter or a dog, or a family trip, or just how someone passes the fricking mashed potatoes over dinner. So yeah. The problem is your stepdaughter, but really the problem is what your stepdaughter has laid bare about her father, the family, and maybe, most importantly, your own needs and wants in this relationship, and how those are just not being met.

[00:48:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: I completely agree with that, Jordan. And so, yes, this might spell the end of the relationship if you guys cannot make progress on those fronts. But I do think that it would be a shame to separate from your partner immediately without at least trying to talk. But I would think of these conversations less as fighting for us, and more like, finding out how we move through a challenge like this and whether we can grow. My feeling, is that your agenda should not be to preserve your relationship at all costs. Your agenda should be to dig into your relationship. Find out how it works. See if you and your partner are willing to listen to each other and see things in a new way, specifically if he's willing to see his daughter more clearly and have your back a little bit more.

[00:48:56] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: And the way I see it, the main things you guys really need to explore together are these qualities and these behaviors that you're seeing in him, particularly the avoidance. And how it's affecting you and why. And also, you know, to be fair, the role that you played in all this, especially with the dog incident, even if it was passive and maybe somewhat inadvertent. And whether your partner agrees that his stepdaughter's behavior, is in fact, an issue that needs to be addressed, in some way. And also, whether he can even appreciate your experience in all of this. Ultimately, I think what you guys need to get clear on together is what you want outta this relationship. What he wants out of your relationship. And what it would take for you guys to resolve this and move forward and hopefully, manage these family dynamics, in a more loving and a more honest and a much healthier way.

[00:49:41] Jordan Harbinger: I think you're right. Now, I don't know if your partner is capable or interested in having this conversation. Part of the reason it's important, is that the way that you two talk or don't, will tell you a lot about whether your relationship actually works. I think you'll know pretty quickly if there's a chance at a healthy future here. If your partner doesn't wanna marry you and you wanna leave because it's always gonna be this way, maybe that's the right decision. But I also hear in that decision, some inflexibility and maybe an unwillingness to hang in the tension of this problem. And that's true for both of you, but it's especially true for him. If you guys can't really talk about this openly, if your partner isn't at least willing to try talking to his daughter and creating a more peaceful home, and if empathy and conflict resolution are important to you, and it sounds like they are, then I agree that this relationship probably cannot survive. If you can, I think you owe it to each other to give it a shot. But you know, it's kind of you and him.

[00:50:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I also think it matters if the rest of the relationship is good, the daughter stuff aside. That's really important. I don't really know. It's hard to tell if the rest of the relationship is great or if this is just eclipsing, everything. Or if this has bled into every other aspect of their relationship. I don't know. I don't know about approaching his daughter yourself. I think the first step is to talk to your partner. If you guys make progress, then, if it's safe and if it's possible, you can ask her to talk. But it is a risky proposition, given her personality. We're going to have to really approach her in a spirit of curiosity, compassion, a lot of patience, I think. And you're gonna have to tolerate some very difficult feelings. Her feelings and also your feelings. And also the feelings that are her feelings that she's making your feelings, which seems to be how she operates. This is also a personality that'll probably respond better to you asking questions and being willing to hear what this has been like for her, even if she's acted abominably, rather than punishing her, pulling away. Hopefully, in that conversation, you do get to share with her what this relationship with her has been like for you. And about the text message, you can say something like, "I could tell from your text that you were really angry and that you felt I wronged you, and I can understand why you felt that way. I appreciate why you felt the need to say that. But I'm also very hurt myself that you said the things you said. It made me worried about the rest of our relationship. It made me feel awful. Honestly, it made me feel pretty unsafe and that's been very hard for me. So maybe you'd like to tell me why you feel so angry at me, specifically? And I'm willing to hear you out, and then maybe we can find a better way to communicate with each other." that would be one way to work with this personality type without overly catering to her or abandoning yourself in all of this.

[00:52:13] Jordan Harbinger: I like that approach, Gabe. But again, I do think she really needs to adjust her expectations about what she's gonna get back. I mean, the girl is unstable and she has her claws out.

[00:52:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, for what it's worth, I do think there's a version of events where you and your stepdaughter never have a great relationship. But you accept each other and you draw some boundaries and you and your partner can still succeed. But that only works if your partner really understands how you feel and he shares your opinion to some degree and appropriately supports you. I don't think your partner needs to cut his daughter off or something like that in order for your relationship to succeed. But then I would still ask, you know, if you guys continue, "At what cost?"

[00:52:50] Jordan Harbinger: Right. But then, he's also literally saying, "My priority is my daughter. I'll always support her."

[00:52:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:52:56] Jordan Harbinger: What he's not saying out loud is, he means over you, my future wife and over the child we have together, because I don't care that she has crazy meltdown rage in front of our 4-year-old. I mean, that's totally inappropriate and dangerous and bad for him. So, right, he's clearly just choosing this daughter over like everyone else in the family, and that's not how you're supposed to do this. So, unfortunately, I don't have high hopes that he's gonna radically reconsider his stance with her. It's not just because he loves his daughter more because she's older, it's like he's afraid of her, so she demands all that support as well as being one of the children. That's gonna be such an unhealthy environment for your little one to grow up in, frankly, my opinion.

[00:53:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree. It's such a good point.

[00:53:36] And when he says, "My priority is my daughter.", I think what he's actually saying is, "I want to prioritize myself because I wanna spare myself the terrifying prospect of my daughter turning on me and suddenly I have to deal with her." So, yeah, you're right. If I'm being honest, I think my expectations would've to be pretty low too. Also, she's 18. I mean, he's probably been enabling her in some form since she was born. I'm speculating a little bit, but I don't think this just happened in the last year or two. But I do still think it's worth finding out if he's open, even a little bit, to standing up to her a little bit. And also supporting and understanding his partner.

[00:54:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I just feel like at this point, that's gonna happen in couples therapy. And I don't know if he wants to hear that from his partner. And we all know how he feels about therapy, it's irrelevant.

[00:54:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Correct. Which is yet another important piece of data about him. There might not be a way forward here if he doesn't even see the value in talking.

[00:54:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Like I hinted at before, I don't know if he even believes that therapy isn't valuable. I think he's just freaking scared. I think he's chicken sh*t. He just doesn't wanna do it for that reason. Which means they might be heading for a breakup, as sad as that is. Mostly sad for the other kids who all seemed to be doing pretty well. And actually, I really feel for them now because they might be about to experience a pretty big loss themselves. So look, if you guys split up, I don't know if you can enforce your stepdaughter not being around your son if you share custody, that's unlikely. But maybe, if she puts him in direct physical danger, but that doesn't sound like she does, your best bet is to just keep a close eye on her interactions with him. Maybe limit their contact as much as you really can. And as your son grows up, keep talking to him about his time at his dad's. Make it safe for him to tell you what it's like when he visits his step siblings. Help him work through any difficult stuff his stepsister brings up for him. All that jazz.

[00:55:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which given her personality, I am actually kind of worried that she will.

[00:55:16] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, just imagine this person is your older sister. On the other hand, she's 18. Maybe she'll move out before he has a lot of memories with her. Maybe she'll get outta there.

[00:55:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. TBD on that, right?

[00:55:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I mean, the problem is, maybe she also just keeps mooching off daddy and doesn't wanna get a job or an apartment or any real responsibility because she doesn't have to. Because she can just loaf. But at some point, she'll probably move out. Or her partner will go, "Hey, it's time for you to be independent." Or she'll meet some dude and shack up with him or whatever. I don't know. And her personality doesn't improve, but at least the immediate problem is solved by her just not being there all the time, tearing up the house. I actually have a feeling that that's what's gonna happen. So no, I don't think you're burying your head in the sand. I think you're doing the opposite. What's so painful about this chapter, is that you're finally coming to terms with some very difficult truths about your partner and his family.

[00:56:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, that's so true. The pain that she feels right now is the pain of being in contact with reality.

[00:56:09] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which is precisely what her partner struggles to do, which is what the avoidance is all about.

[00:56:15] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. So I commend you for being willing to confront all of this. I really do. And I wish you the courage to continue diving into it and make the right call for you and your kids. If he can't do that with you, then you have a choice to make. Although that choice kind of seems to be making itself. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best.

[00:56:33] You know who else likes to bite a huge chunk out of the normally high prices for their exceptional products and services, the sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:56:44] This episode is sponsored in part by Stitch Fix. With my schedule packed to the brim, fashion has taken a backseat lately. There's real — dad fashion is real, folks. No time to ponder what's in Vogue. This is exactly why having a personal stylist through Stitch Fix feels like a breath of fresh air. It's like delegating the task of keeping my wardrobe fresh and exciting to somebody who actually knows their stuff. Stitch Fix acts as my behind the scenes fashion guru. I share my sizes, everything from extra small to triple XL, style preferences, any budget. Then they work their magic, curating a fix of five items tailored just for me, send it right to my door. The convenience of trying everything on at home, keeping what I like, send back the rest without worrying about shipping or return since they're on the house, that's a game changer. I don't wanna be farting around, trying to figure out how much everything costs to go back and yada yada. With over a thousand brands, Stitch Fix ensures my style always stays updated regardless of life Season. Plus, the more I use Stitch Fix, the better their stylists get at pinpointing my perfect style picks and quirks.

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[00:57:46] Jordan Harbinger: Let me introduce you to a podcast that I love. It's called The Gist. Hosted by Mike Pesca. This is not a news commentary show with dudes trying to virtue signal and score points. Mike delivers insightful interviews and perspectives that cut through typical partisan chatter. Pushes the boundaries of conventional thinking, one might say. The Gist is renowned for being the longest running podcast in its genre. You've probably seen it around the iTunes charts or whatever the kids call 'em these days. It's easy to see why. Pesca unique blend of curiosity and skepticism leads to actual thought provoking discussions that will challenge you. Offer up arguments that are compelling. You're gonna be eager to share them. I find myself doing that. Recent episodes have featured an eclectic mix of guests from a Pixar and Saturday Night Live writer who predicts AI's takeover of comedy, to a Pulitzer Prize. Is it Pulitzer or Politzer? I never know. Prize winning journalist, uncovering truths about the Covid lab leak theory, which sounds like something we do on this show. Other notable conversations include insights from a Baltimore City attorney, which it kind of sounds like The Wire, and you'll like it if you like The Wire, I suppose. And a gun manufacturer who's created a firearm that only works with facial and fingerprint recognition, which I hope works like super fast.

[00:58:46] So if you're looking for a podcast that offers more than just echo chamber, rhetoric nonsense, give The Gist a listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:58:53] If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. To learn more and get links to all the discounts you hear on the show, jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also email me. Jordan@jordanharbinger.com. If you're lazy, I'll dig up the code for you. Now I know a lot of times you can't remember the sponsor. You're curious if we have a sponsor for X, Y, Z thing you're gonna buy, definitely email me. I would love to surface that code for you. It is that important, that you support those who support the show.

[00:59:22] Alright, back to Feedback Friday.

[00:59:26] Alright, what's next?

[00:59:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm at the top of my professional game. The work I do isn't done anywhere else. I have freedom and prestige, a killer combo, nearly my dream job. I say nearly because my CEO, let's call him Abe, makes everyone's life harder than it needs to be. We've worked together for 14 years, starting with this consulting company where we were a killer combo.

[00:59:51] Jordan Harbinger: A killer combo followed by another killer combo. You know what that is, Gabriel? That's a killer combo.

[00:59:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: A killer combo?

[00:59:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:00:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: After eight years, Abe left due to issues with his co-founders and became the CEO of a well-respected, think tank like nonprofit, which he brought me into two years later. But when I joined, Abe had changed. At first, I thought that he had a brain tumor. That's how different he was. He was paranoid that people were sabotaging him and was totally unhelpful with my concerns. He couldn't follow through with a single, simple task. He would ask for work, then never do anything with it. Then forget that he ever asked for it. Early on, he intentionally didn't help me when I had a horrible manager because he didn't wanna play favorites. He hates confrontation and actually let other staff leave over that manager's behavior.

[01:00:42] Jordan Harbinger: Got it. So this guy is super avoidant. Man, it's like a running theme in today's episode, somehow.

[01:00:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: This is the theme of today's Feedback Friday.

[01:00:49] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: There's some connection here between this and the other guy, but we'll see where this goes. We recently lost half our staff in one year, including some very senior long-term people, primarily because Abe isn't changing his ways. Because he is toxically positive and because he isn't making the changes necessary to build trust. Recently, we got an entirely new leadership team, and I finally found an advocate in the organization who put me in a position where I could grow. I now have four staff members. I'm doing some super cutting edge stuff, and I'm in a leadership position.

[01:01:17] Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's an encouraging development. Super exciting. Congratulations.

[01:01:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: But surprise, surprise, things haven't gotten better overall because Abe is still at the head. He wants to keep pretending that he quote-unquote, "Manages by consensus." What he really does, is do whatever the hell he wants and everyone else has to fix it. Working around Abe's chaos has taken a toll on me. I've sacrificed many hours of my life, and mental and emotional energy to his reckless decisions, and I've become so resentful that I have to leave. I've been talking with a few directors on the board to make sure that they're aware of how bad things are and how we'll continue to bleed senior staff. They're aware and have been giving Abe executive coaching, but after pouring my heart out to one board member, they decided to resign because they feel that they have failed us by not addressing Abe's behavior. Releasing a CEO from a nonprofit is a big deal in a small industry. And it doesn't seem like they'll do it. A few staff, now want to take a letter about Abe's issues to the board. Well, I'm not opposed to a coup or care if I lose my job, this does feel like it would be a stab in the back. How do I tell Abe that I'm leaving due to his actions and inaction? Knowing that he won't change. Should I join this coup by joining this letter to the board? Signed, The Reluctant Usurper.

[01:02:38] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is pretty fascinating. You have to be a terrible leader to cause this many people to resign. To force a board of directors to get you coaching, and then to drive people to stage a coup to push you out. Everything you've described does sound like, just textbook sloppy/toxic/just plain old incompetent leadership. I kind of feel for Abe, because he's obviously ill-equipped. And he has a, whatever, very little self-awareness to put it lightly or support around him to improve. But at what point do you go, "Man, something I'm doing is not working here." abe should not be leading an organization. This guy just — he sucks. Sorry, but that's it.

[01:03:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: It also sounds like the board has inadvertently enabled him. Also, another fascinating parallel with the last question, by not giving him more direct feedback or straight up replacing him. I mean, this one board member who resigned because they quote-unquote, "Failed everyone by not addressing Abe's behavior." I find that a bit strange. Like, if you failed everyone by not taking action, why don't you just — I don't know, take action, bro. Like why resign?

[01:03:39] Jordan Harbinger: That was the action he took. Leaving.

[01:03:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[01:03:41] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this might — this sounds like it might turn into responsibility. I'm out.

[01:03:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Is that not exactly what the dad from the last question does?

[01:03:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[01:03:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's like, "I want to prioritize myself." It sounds like this board member, and maybe other people in the company, are also being pretty avoidant.

[01:03:54] Jordan Harbinger: For sure. I'm also a little surprised by that thing about releasing a CEO from a nonprofit is a big deal in a small industry. Okay, fine. Maybe it is. But when things are this bad, you gotta make some tough calls.

[01:04:06] I mean, part of the board's responsibility is just making sure their donor's money is being well spent, that their employees are being taken care of, that they're effective as an organization. I'm not laughing at you, by the way, I just — it's so, this guy's so bad as a leader. It's horrible.

[01:04:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: There's dysfunction at many levels of this nonprofit.

[01:04:23] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: The fact that they're putting up with Abe this long, is probably just one aspect of some larger issues, at this company.

[01:04:29] Jordan Harbinger: Right. And it sounds like, they're part of the decision as well. We'll lose face if we switch our CEO. And it's like, okay, but he is driving the ship into the ground.

[01:04:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Which one do you want?

[01:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah. Pick one. So to coup or not to coup? Well, like I said, I share your feeling that Abe has to go. He deserved a chance to get better. He deserved coaching and all that. But it doesn't sound like he's capitalizing on that support or even trying to really change. So I totally get the desire to push him out. But given your relationship with him that you guys were a killer combo in the past, that he brought you into the organization, I don't know, it gives me pause. Putting your name on that letter would be a stab in the back. Not an entirely unwarranted one. Possibly, a necessary one. But it's — yeah, it's a stab in the back. If I were in your shoes, here's how I would handle this. I'd schedule some one-on-one time with Abe. I'd basically say, in a tone that is just honest but kind, "Look, I have some feedback and some intel to share with you. I don't think this is gonna come across as a total surprise, but we've worked together for a long time. I owe this incredible career to you. So I feel it's only right to share this with you directly. Basically, your leadership, your decision making, the way you manage people, I'm sorry to say that it's just not working, clearly. I mean, look what's happening. Half the staff quit. Those senior people are gone. A board member resigned. My experience with you has been that you wanna manage by consensus and I appreciate that. But what usually ends up happening is, you kind of do whatever you want and everyone else has to fix it. And I hear you talk about people sabotaging you. I find that I can't get your support when I need it. You often ask for work and then you don't do anything with it. I see you sidestepping confrontation. All of this is creating a lot of dysfunction and inefficiency. Plus, it's stressful. It's so chaotic. Now, I recently learned that a number of employees want to tell the board that they don't have confidence in your leadership. I think it's possible that they want you gone. So I feel I owe it to you, to tell you all this. I'm doing the old Oscar Wilde thing here. I'm being a true friend and I'm stabbing you in the front. And I wanna ask you, just point blank, whether you're open to working on any of this and growing as a leader, which all CEOs need to do at various points or whether this is how you plan to lead this organization, no matter what." something like that. Then let him respond. See if there's a conversation to be had. The way that he responds to a message like that, I think that is gonna tell you whether you should quit or go along with this coup. If he goes, "Oh my God, I didn't realize things were this bad. I need to think about this. I need to talk to my coach. Thank you so much for telling me." Oh, maybe there's some hope for him. I don't know. It might be too late for the nonprofit to give him another chance, but it also might change your personal feelings. But if he goes, "What do you mean my leadership doesn't work? I'm the CEO. I call the shots. Everyone else has to fall in line. It's how it works. How dare people go to the board." If he gets defensive, if he doubles down, then I personally would just feel a lot better about going to the board and saying, "Look, it gives me no pleasure to say this, but Abe is a problematic CEO. He is not the right person to lead us." At which point, the coup is not just a coup to overthrow a crappy boss because it's the expedient thing to do, it's the only real option to protect yourself and do right by the organization and its donors.

[01:07:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well said. I love that script and I could not agree more. It's interesting. One of our friend here's chief complaints is that Abe is very avoidant.

[01:07:45] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: And like we said, that avoidance does seem to be part of this organization's culture at many levels. But if our friend here doesn't give Abe some kind of heads up that things are badly deteriorating before he joins this coup, then in a way, he's also being kind of avoidant himself.

[01:08:01] Jordan Harbinger: Good point. If he wants Abe to be more present, he might wanna try doing it himself. Maybe even model for Abe what leaning into healthy conflict looks like.

[01:08:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, look, maybe he would say, "I don't know if I owe Abe anything. He doesn't want to change. He hasn't earned my loyalty." And you know what? That's valid. He might be right about that. But, he only has something to gain by trying. If nothing else, he's gonna feel much more secure in signing the letter. And it would be amazing practice and how to have a really difficult conversation like this, which if he continues to rise up and lead more people and do the stimulating work he wants to do, which it sounds like he is, and if he doesn't wanna be like Abe himself one day, he's gonna have many more of in his career.

[01:08:39] Jordan Harbinger: Right. This could be his anti-Abe training.

[01:08:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: His anti-Abe training.

[01:08:43] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. I also think there's something to be said for fairness in a situation like this, for integrity.

[01:08:48] There are times when you do stab somebody in the back, succession style. Because the person is so atrocious or you have no choice or because, you know, the winds of power compel you to do so. Game of Throne style. I don't know. There's so many HBO references in this point. But in a nonprofit, where people are there for more noble reasons and the organization is smaller and you have a personal history with the person who's about to be killed, essentially, I do feel that a face-to-face conversation is the right thing to do.

[01:09:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I'm with you, Gabe, and if Abe digs his heels in, then yes, you're well within your rights to join the coup. It's probably the right thing to do. Just try to navigate all this with as much kindness and grace as possible. This letter is a big deal. It's probably gonna hurt Abe quite a bit, even if he brought this on himself. So just be prepared for that too. And hey, I hope your next CEO is very different. I hope you guys are another, uh, killer combo. So good luck.

[01:09:40] Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week, and everyone who listened. Thank you so much. Don't forget to check out the episodes with Arthur Brooks on happiness and Allison Young on deadly diseases being leaked from laboratories. Kind of the opposite of happiness.

[01:09:53] The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. It's a circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself. It's our six-minute networking course. It's a 100 percent free. It's not gross, it's not schmoozy. You can find it on the Thinkific platform at sixminutenetworking.com. The drills take a few minutes a day. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. You gotta dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. You gotta build relationships before you need them. Again, sixminutenetworking.com.

[01:10:19] Don't forget our newsletter, jordanharbinger.com/news. We dig into an old episode every week, deliver to the inbox. A lot of positive feedback on the newsletter, like a ton. And we're doing giveaways on there and stuff. jordanharbinger.com/news. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all searchable and clickable at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's on Instagram, Gabriel Mizrahi, or on Twitter, @GabeMizrahi.

[01:10:48] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing things that you hear on this show. Ditto Corbin Payne and Joanna Tate. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

[01:11:22] You are about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show about junk science.

[01:11:27] Dave Farina: There is this anti-establishment sentiment that leads to blanket science denial, which is enormously problematic and seems to be growing. There is so much false information on the internet. It's very easy to just facelessly claim that legitimate information is false. We're having to reckon with the fact that the internet is doing this to us. It's very much a double-edged sword. It's giving us all the information and so, it's very hard to like censor things. But then also we have all of these, you know, lies and charlatans and this stuff propagates like wildfire and it's an enormous problem. It's just such an alluring narrative. It's so easy to pedal. We want it to be true so bad, but it's not real. You need to be equipped with some ability, some set of skills, to be able to discern the validity of information, right? Particularly scientific. Platforms like YouTube have had to make adjustments to their algorithm because they have come to understand how much they have been facilitating this destruction of our sociological fabric by allowing people to travel down these rabbit holes. It's very attractive narrative, right? It gives you a sense of purpose. It's a big problem. That's why we're in the post-truth era. Whatever you wanna find on the internet, it's there. All the truth and all the lies. When you wrap your identity around a false cause, you are eliminating yourself from some other possible contribution that you could be making. I'm crusading against this thing, yet we should remain driven and encourage others to do the same. I think it's the biggest problem facing mankind.

[01:12:56] Jordan Harbinger: If you wanna increase your scientific literacy and not get suckered into believing weaponized hogwash and passing it off to your friends and family as fact, check out episode 745 with Dave Farina on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

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