931: Trust is Twisted by Thirsty Therapist Resisted | Feedback Friday

931: Trust is Twisted by Thirsty Therapist Resisted | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday, producer MC Gaby on the ones and twos, Gabriel Mizrahi.

[00:00:12] On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

[00:00:25] During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of just incredible people from undercover agents and former jihadi to rocket scientists and comedians, even extreme athletes here and there.

[00:00:34] This week we interviewed Dr. David Eagleman. He's been on the show a bunch of times, friend of mine, awesome, amazing guy. We talked about why time slows down in terms of our perception of time when crazy things happen, how we might end up with new senses or new limbs, synesthesia, why blind people have better musical skills. By the way, synesthesia is when people can like taste purple. If you've ever been on a crazy psychedelic trip, you might have experienced a little bit of this. Also this week, Morgan Housel, financial journalist, talking about risk disaster planning and the right way to think about the future. We actually didn't talk about finances. We also covered quirky billionaire personalities. A super fun conversation, so don't be thrown by the financial journalist thing. It's not about finance. It's actually just about thinking, and he's a good thinker.

[00:01:19] On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice and cosplay as the Lydias, we really don't want to be that we constantly shame on the show, but frankly who y'all need and we low key love being your Lydia. Not going to lie.

[00:01:30] By the way, before we dive in, the documentary, The Mole, that's the one about Ulrich Larsen, the Danish guy who posed as an arms dealer and exposed how North Korea buys illegal weapons. And then, of course, we recently had Mr. James on, Jim Latrache, talking about his French Foreign Legion and undercover North Korea arms dealing. Also in The Mole, it's an amazing story. The documentary's absolutely incredible and it's available nowhere in America. And people kept asking me where to see it. Well, somebody put it up on YouTube and I don't think it's like a hacked, cam crap version, and it's now linked on our jordanharbinger.com/movies page and in the show notes for this episode. It's a great watch if you guys are interested in the underworld of rogue regimes buying illegal firearms among other things, not just firearms, I mean missiles and chemical weapons. Just a truly wild story all in.

[00:02:17] As always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies, and I can't wait to Lydia it up. So Gabe, what is the first nightmare out of the nightmare bag?

[00:02:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a woman in my 30s and my psychiatrist attempted to start a sexual relationship with me.

[00:02:34] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Wow.

[00:02:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Does that qualify?

[00:02:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So I already know where this one's going, but I'm angry all over again. I can't believe that there are mental health providers out there who do this. It's just not okay.

[00:02:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it's not.

[00:02:46] Jordan Harbinger: Carry on.

[00:02:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: At first I thought I was imagining things, so I didn't shut it down early enough. I have a history of people pleasing and relationships with older men in positions of power over me, which he knew about.

[00:02:59] Jordan Harbinger: Hmp.

[00:02:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: He even asked me how a guy, two decades older, seduced me at 17 years old, then attempted to use those same exact tactics with me. I have very explicit, very graphic emails from him. Whatever you're thinking, it was worse. He's clearly having a late and life crisis looking at retirement, and according to him, a sexless marriage.

[00:03:19] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm.

[00:03:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Just to be clear, nothing bad actually happened. He just really wanted something to. I worked really hard in therapy to break those old patterns and now have a great marriage with two kids under five. I know ethically that he's responsible for this, but I'm pretty upset by the recurrence of something that I thought I would've been able to handle better at this point in my life.

[00:03:40] Jordan Harbinger: By the way, this unfortunately reminds me of that part of the Hangover where Ed Helms' wife, she's like, "She cheated on me with a bartender on a cruise," and then later, Zach Galifianakis approaches the now ex-wife and is like, "I'm thinking about going to bartending school." It's like that clumsy of a thing with this therapist, right? He's like, "So tell me what this man did to seduce you when you were 17." She's like, "Oh, he said he had a fast car and I like fast cars." And he is like, "That's funny—"

[00:04:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I just bought myself a G 500. Yeah. It's like, what?

[00:04:09] Jordan Harbinger: Dude, how clunky are you going to be with this? I mean, I'm glad he was pathetic and had no game and this didn't go anywhere. But man, it makes me sad that you feel like this is somehow your fault. You should never have been in this position in the first place, and it is deeply uncomfortable to handle. But I hear you that this echoed some old stuff in your life and you feel like you should have known how to shut it down. I'm just flagging that 'cause I think it's an interesting aspect of this situation.

[00:04:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hmm.

[00:04:32] Jordan Harbinger: It's so reflexive for some people to just blame themselves and think, what should I have done differently when this other person is just so clearly a piece of sh*t.

[00:04:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: I did restart therapy to look into all the old issues this brought up for me, but my therapist has been very careful to take my feelings and my past into account and is not pushing me to do anything I don't want to do.

[00:04:50] Jordan Harbinger: So just to be clear, when she says my therapist, she's not talking about the psychiatrist who tried to get into her pants in the first place. This is a new therapist.

[00:04:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Correct. Yes.

[00:04:58] Jordan Harbinger: Just for those following along at home.

[00:05:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. Psychiatrist, creep. Therapist, non-creep.

[00:05:03] Jordan Harbinger: So far.

[00:05:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: So far, yeah. She goes on.

[00:05:05] The thing is, I don't want to deal with everything that goes into reporting him. I don't have the physical or mental energy. 50 percent of me says that he'll retire soon, so it's not even worth it. The other 50 percent says that this will most likely happen again since he seems so careless and desperate.

[00:05:23] Jordan Harbinger: I hate to say it, but I think you're probably right. The chances that this guy only did this to you and no one else and will never do it again to anyone else, even after he retires, come on, he's going to be going to church and being like, "Oh, you know, let me counsel some of the flak." I just think it's slim to think that a predator is going to stop predating when they retire. That's not how it works.

[00:05:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: So do I have a moral obligation to report this guy or can I just move on? If I don't report him, am I allowing these things to keep happening by brushing them under the rug and becoming part of the problem? Signed, Still in Shock, But Not Really Wanting to Talk About this pervy doc.

[00:06:01] Jordan Harbinger: Oof. Well, this definitely lives up to the doozy standard, Gabe. It's like, "My doctor, the guy who staying on top of my Ativan prescription or whatever, a doctor who is supposed to be taking care of me, used my past against me and tried to seduce me."

[00:06:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, it's so patently predatory and inappropriate.

[00:06:18] Jordan Harbinger: Patently predatory, deeply gross. I mean, this is a clear cut violation of his professional duty. You know, if you're a lawyer and you do this, you are screwed. If you do this, and you're a therapist, you are doubly screwed and it's even more gross. It's like a divorce lawyer trying to get with the divorcee. It's just so gross.

[00:06:35] I'm very sorry this happened to you. I understand why it's brought up a lot of complicated feelings, all these big questions. We wanted to run this by an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Erin Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show, and I can confidently say therapist who's never tried to seduce any of her patients.

[00:06:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Can confirm.

[00:06:51] Soundbite: I'm also known to the people who know me the best, as the f*cking doctor. [Analyze That]

[00:06:56] Jordan Harbinger: And Dr. Margolis had the same reaction we did. Although I got to say her reaction was even more intense probably because it besmirches her profession. As she put it to us, "It makes my skin crawl and my blood boil when I hear stories like this. It gives a bad name to mental health providers. And for some people it makes them feel like all mental health providers are predatory or weird or dangerous. It can prevent people from getting treatment and it can cause significant harm." I had not thought of that, but that's true. Sums it up perfectly, I think.

[00:07:23] Now, Dr. Margolis isn't familiar with the code of ethics for psychiatrists, but she did say that for psychologists, a surefire way to lose your license is to engage in a sexual relationship with a client. It's one of the most egregious violations a mental health provider can commit. It's virtually the only guaranteed way to lose your license, and she would imagine the code of ethics for most healthcare professionals can't be too different.

[00:07:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I actually Googled this after we talked to her and right there in the American Psychiatric Associations document principles of medical ethics or whatever, in the very first section, it literally says—

[00:07:58] Jordan Harbinger: Don't bang your clients.

[00:07:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: —don't do it. A psychiatrist shall not gratify his or her own needs by exploiting the patient. The psychiatrist shall be ever vigilant about the impact that his or her conduct has upon the boundaries of the doctor-patient relationship, and thus upon the wellbeing of the patient. These requirements become particularly important because of the essentially private, highly personal, and sometimes intensely emotional nature of the relationship established with the psychiatrist.

[00:08:24] So this is not some edge case or ambiguous territory. It's very clear cut and this guy knows what he's doing.

[00:08:31] Jordan Harbinger: Well, there you go. That makes perfect sense. So open and shut case. You said nothing bad happened. By that, I assume you mean you guys didn't actually engage in anything, but as Dr. Margolis pointed out, something bad did happen, these explicit emails, everything else he said and did, and the way all of that made you feel as a patient.

[00:08:49] So let's talk about that thing. I flagged earlier how you feel partly responsible for not shutting this down sooner. Dr. Margolis zeroed in on that as well. When you said that you're upset by the recurrence of something you thought you'd be able to handle better at this point in your life, Dr. Margolis sensed some self-blame on your part and perhaps some shame about what happened. She wanted to be very explicit with you and say, there is zero percent of this situation that is your fault.

[00:09:14] In her view, this is a situation where a person in a position of power took advantage of that power and your vulnerability, and that can make it very difficult to feel like you can say no or set boundaries. And it sounds to me like you're turning some of this inward and beating yourself up for not shutting down a very difficult and uncomfortable situation that you did not create. And look, I admire that you want to know what you could have done differently, and that you do feel the sense of agency, especially given what happened to you when you were younger, but his actions, his ethical obligations, those are not your responsibility.

[00:09:46] So in Dr. Margolis' view, addressing that shame and sense of responsibility with your therapist would probably be very valuable in addition to talking about what all of this has brought up for you, given your past. As she put it, that shame and self-blame sound more like symptoms of trauma than of an accurate reflection of reality in terms of who's truly responsible.

[00:10:05] So let's talk about the big question, Gabe. Should she report him?

[00:10:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, Dr. Margolis said that she's really glad to hear that your therapist isn't pushing you into doing anything you don't want to do. That's the right approach in her view, because the truth is nobody can decide whether to report this guy except for you. It's a personal choice. She does think it's important that your therapist inform you of your rights and what courses of action you could take if you wanted to. But Dr. Margolis did say that in her experience when clients report violations like this. Yeah, it can be quite scary, but it can also be very empowering. Because if you think about what you went through with this guy as an abuse of power, which is what it is, what a remarkable way to take the power back.

[00:10:48] In fact, she said that if you were her client, she might ask what it would've been like for you if you had somebody speak up for you back when you were 17, and if that would've made a difference in your life. Is it worth the discomfort of reporting this guy in order to do something for other people that you maybe didn't have yourself? Also, is there something inherently healing about being the person you wish you had when you were in such a vulnerable position? She was not presupposing the answers to that. There are questions you can turn over yourself, but just sharing a few ideas you might want to explore with your therapist.

[00:11:19] But look, Dr. Margolis was very clear with us. None of this means that you have to report this guy. It is absolutely possible that closure and healing for you is going to come in other forms. You might want to work through some more of this with your therapist before you report it, which is very common and totally fair. And also, Dr. Margolis said that the wheels of justice tend to move very slowly. So even if you did report him, now, it might be a long time before you actually have to follow up on anything. But in any event, if you do a little more work around this with your therapist, you might feel more equipped to handle the process.

[00:11:52] And if you ever do decide to report, hopefully your therapist would help you with that, and they would help you process what comes up for you at every step along the way.

[00:11:59] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. But listen, if you do decide to report this guy, it might not be as involved as you assume. You might want to look into what the process actually is. It could be as simple as writing up a brief report, maybe having a call with some investigator or whatever down the road. It might not require a lot of time and energy, but that partly depends on your state and what the reporting process looks like. It's not going to be like a sexual assault trial, right?

[00:12:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:23] Jordan Harbinger: As for your question, can I just move on? Dr. Margolis had an interesting response. She said, "I don't know, can you?" Kind of like, when you ask your third grade teacher if you can go to the bathroom and she says the exact same thing. Of course, it's not the same thing.

[00:12:36] More to the point, what does moving on mean? Does moving on mean processing it in therapy? Does it mean not having any feelings about what happened whatsoever? Does doesn't mean stuffing it down and never thinking about it again? Because if so, she's not sure that's really moving on, if that's even possible. I mean, we can't never have feelings about something, right? But we can change our relationship to those feelings. So really this depends on how you ultimately feel about what happened, what you think you need to do in order to resolve this.

[00:13:07] But Dr. Margolis was emphatic on one point. It's very possible this guy will do it again, and even if he stops seeing patients soon, he might do it to other people in his life. So that might change the calculus too.

[00:13:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Like you said, he might go to church and find new targets down the road, even if he's not seeing people in his practice. Yeah, it's a alarming thought. But look, when you asked if you're becoming part of the problem by not reporting him, to quote Dr. Margolis one more time here, "If you don't report, that doesn't make you a bad person. And it doesn't mean you're failing people and it doesn't mean that you're part of the problem. You with your therapist have to consider what your needs are. What about the situation is unique to you in order to do what is right for yourself?" And I think she's absolutely right about that. It's important to parse these feelings and this sense of responsibility and not let that self-blame component that we've been talking about creep into your decision either way.

[00:13:57] So I'm really sorry that this happened to you. It is a truly awful and uncomfortable experience, but I admire how thoughtfully you're handling it. And I love that you decided to start therapy again to talk about what it brought up and how it fits into the larger story of your life. I think that's excellent. I mean, it sucks that you have to talk about it more, but it's excellent. Whatever you decide to do, and all of these options I think are fair, make sure that you are processing this experience however you need to in order to move forward for yourself. That is priority number one.

[00:14:26] Jordan Harbinger: I will say though, if this were me in your shoes, I'm just speaking for myself here, I'd be reporting this guy because this is so textbook and I would just want to know that I helped put a stop to a person like this. But that does not mean you have to feel the same way. Really, I'm just popping off because your story makes me super angry. I don't want anybody else to go through this too. But again, you don't have to agree with me on all this. Just like anything on Feedback Friday for that matter.

[00:14:51] Sending you a big hug as long as you consent. Of course, not trying to throw out Doctor Midlife crisis over here vibes. We're rooting for you and we're wishing you all the best.

[00:14:59] Big thanks to Dr. Margolis for her wisdom as well. Dr. Margolis is seeing patients in Los Angeles and virtually throughout California. You can learn more about her at drerinmargolis.com.

[00:15:09] You know who you won't need to report to a regulatory body, Gabriel? The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:15:19] This episode is sponsored in part by Heat Holders. Very descriptive, Heat holders. As the cold sets in, again, there's a cozy solution to stay warm this winter. Heat holders, they're not your average thermal socks. Heat holders are the warmest, keeping your feet toasty, even in the chillest conditions. They're secrets. They hold heat. No. The secret is a three stage process featuring a cashmere like advanced insulating yarn. It's super soft. Brushed inside to trap warm air close to your skin, ensuring your feet stay warm, comfy, and dry. They don't get all sweaty and gross. I was worried about that they don't. Heat Holders also promises the softest, most comfortable socks, and they deliver, but that's not all. They offer — hats, gloves, throws, scarves and more anything that holds heat. In fact, Jen's been living in the base layer bottoms because they're so comfortable and warm. We also love their cozy throws and blankets. Perfect for holiday gifting.

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[00:16:19] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. In our household, we treasure the holidays for the lasting memories rather than the physical gifts. I don't speak for our kids, though they love their toys. Jen and I try to stay minimal. I'm all about getting rid of crap these days. Software, though I don't know, I kind of collect video games, but whatever. On the note of personal gifts, this season is a great chance to invest in yourself with therapy and better help makes it wonderfully easy. Imagine having a therapy session while cozied up in your festive PJs. That's the comfort BetterHelp brings right to your doorstep. It's therapy reimagined accessible from your favorite armchair with no waiting lines, just insights and breakthroughs that could even outshine your holiday lights. So as you enjoy that warm cup of cocoa, consider giving BetterHelp a go. It's to step towards nurturing your mental wellbeing, a holiday gift that keeps on giving. BetterHelp is all about convenience and adaptability to your lifestyle. Just complete a quick questionnaire, get paired with a licensed therapist, and if you ever feel the need switch therapists seamlessly at no extra cost. It's therapy tailored for you as flexible as your holiday plans.

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[00:17:24] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you so much for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support this podcast are at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for sponsors using the AI chatbot on the website or email me. I'll surface that code for you. Please consider supporting those who support us.

[00:17:42] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:17:45] Okay, next up.

[00:17:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Gabe and Jordan. My aging mother is in her 70s and she lives on a Jewish settlement in what is technically Palestine. She's a fierce Zionist and moved us to Israel when I was 14. But as an adult, I came back to the States to go to college, work and live.

[00:18:02] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Fascinating. So for anybody who doesn't know about these settlements, these are civilian communities where Jewish Israelis live, and I believe there's something like 140, 150 of them, and they're built on land that Israel annexed in the six-day war in 1967, mostly in the West Bank, but also some in the Golan Heights. A lot of people in countries, including the US at various points, they consider these settlements illegal under international law. Obviously, Israel and these settlers disagree. In some areas like East Jerusalem, Israel doesn't even consider them settlements. They're just like, okay, this land is ours. Israelis can move there. No problem.

[00:18:39] And fun fact, I used to live in East Jerusalem on something called the French Hill, and there was like a house in the middle of this built up area that was in sort of disrepair. And the kids there, they would throw rocks at me whenever I pass by and I just did not understand. I was like, how is there this house next to our dorm where this kid throws really large, dangerous stones and tries to hit us when we're sitting out in the grass or when we're walking by? And that's why, because he's pissed off.

[00:19:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Because history?

[00:19:03] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, because history.

[00:19:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: But you didn't know.

[00:19:05] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, it's fascinating. It's complicated. We don't need to get into the politics of all this. I just wanted to clarify for anybody who isn't familiar with where this listener's mom lives, it's basically super dangerous. These people get butchered all the time. Carry on, Gabe.

[00:19:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: My mother has always been the type of person who follows her idealistic notions to an extreme. For example, she raised me in a meditation cult, which was kooky enough, and then decided that the whole thing was bogus and damaging, and then became orthodox religious and moved to an Orthodox Jewish settlement.

[00:19:34] Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. So she's kind of a magnet for these movements, these extreme ideologies. That's tough. I'm glad you see it clearly now though, because that's a miserable way to live.

[00:19:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Normally, I can do a decent job of handling her conspiracy theories and wild statements, but since COVID lockdowns, it has gotten much worse.

[00:19:52] Jordan Harbinger: Go figure.

[00:19:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's convinced of the pandemic and that a cabal of rich elites are trying to depopulate the earth by 66 percent through magnetic COVID shots and 5G. And she's now making statements like, viruses were invented by eugenics. They were responsible for the Spanish flu in 1918, just at the advent of electricity, and that's how they activate viruses.

[00:20:13] Jordan Harbinger: You know what's funny is hearing a Jewish woman who lives in a settlement saying a cabal of rich elites, and it's like, you know, when other people say rich elites, they just mean Jews, right? That's who they're talking. They're talking about you. Okay. It's just funny. It's like rich elites is definitely one of those sort of secret words where they're like, they, and it's got parentheses around it, and it's like, they mean Jews. And she's like, "No, I'm Jewish." It's the other elite cabal. Good Lord. So she's a full on conspiracy kook.

[00:20:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: It gets even better, Jordan, the letter goes on.

[00:20:39] By the way, my mom was a successful nurse for 35 years and she still believes the un-science behind these statements.

[00:20:46] Jordan Harbinger: Whoa, fascinating. I mean, I don't understand where this comes from. Well, actually I do understand where it comes from. They get it from Rumble or whatever, but come on, people.

[00:20:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Now, she's only getting worse with the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

[00:20:58] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[00:20:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's living in Palestinian territory, which could be an easy target for militant extremists. In fact, they've had a few incidents of Arab refugees, not Palestinians breaking into Jewish homes and murdering them in their sleep.

[00:21:11] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Yeah.

[00:21:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: But she's also convinced that Hamas is in league with the Secularist Israeli government, and that all of this is a smokescreen to remove Zionists and put them all in concentration camps.

[00:21:23] Jordan Harbinger: Oh gosh. That is as farfetched and stupid as I've ever heard.

[00:21:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. She has a completely different interpretation of what is happening in the last month or so. Wow.

[00:21:32] Jordan Harbinger: I wonder how many other people in that situation believe that.

[00:21:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: I have no idea.

[00:21:35] Jordan Harbinger: We have listeners in those settlements and they write in, and they don't seem insane to me.

[00:21:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: They don't say this. Yeah.

[00:21:40] Jordan Harbinger: No, they don't say this kind of stuff.

[00:21:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: But she can't be the only person who believes that.

[00:21:44] Jordan Harbinger: No, but I had not heard that one yet. That Hamas is secretly working with Israel. I mean—

[00:21:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a new one for me too.

[00:21:49] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Continue.

[00:21:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: So she's refusing to leave. She truly believes that this is what God has called on her to do. My partner and I planned to get married within the year and even before the conflict. She was saying that if she left, they wouldn't let her back into the country. I told her repeatedly that this is silly, and the only reason we're having a wedding is for the mothers. So her not coming to the wedding is out of the question. Also, I never wanted to get married, but my mother always told me that getting married is extremely important for family and friends. I finally gave in because I do want to make her happy. Now, she's saying that getting married is only for the couple and for God, and that family and friends don't really need to be there, so we should just find a proper rabbi soon as possible to marry us. What hurts the most is her total hypocrisy.

[00:22:34] Jordan Harbinger: Right. So she's difficult on a number of levels.

[00:22:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I can see why this mom is driving her up the wall. So she goes on.

[00:22:41] My mother is more or less healthy, but is becoming less reasonable and has a heart condition. I've been thinking about convincing her to come back to the states for a while. I'm an only child and there's no one else to take care of her, and then this conflict happened. I want my mother to be happy and healthy wherever she is. If I were being completely honest, I'm not sure how much I like the idea of her living close to me. I love my mother deeply, but she generates a bit of an Everybody Loves Raymond situation wherever she goes.

[00:23:08] Jordan Harbinger: Surprise, surprise.

[00:23:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm legitimately worried that I would come home to find pinpricks in the condoms and our entire kitchen being kosher with all of my very nice and extremely expensive pots and pans in the trash.

[00:23:20] That's not a joke. She actually sounds like that's a real thing.

[00:23:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a real fear. Like I noticed your kitchen wasn't kosher, so I threw away everything that you use.

[00:23:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, yeah. You're responding to the kitchen where I was responding to the pinpricks in the condoms, but both are very disturbing.

[00:23:32] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that one's worse actually. I'll give you that.

[00:23:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Who knows? Maybe all her pots and pans are from Williamson, which would make that a huge tragedy.

[00:23:37] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah. You don't want those in the trash.

[00:23:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: Also, I'm not exactly a cuddle bunny, which is sort of what she wants for herself by her own admission. I took that to mean that she wants to surround herself with like-minded people and codependency.

[00:23:49] Oh man. I'm really trying to bite my tongue here because there's so much to talk about.

[00:23:53] Jordan Harbinger: But if this woman was raised in Israel from age 14 through adulthood, she's probably a sabra. This is what the Israeli women say about themselves. Sabra is like the word for this cactus fruit that has the spines on it, and it means really prickly on the outside, but sweet on the inside.

[00:24:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:24:08] Jordan Harbinger: Basically every Israeli girl that you meet is going to throw something in your face and then you're like, "God, they are so mean." And then later on you're like, "Oh, she's really nice."

[00:24:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: So you're saying her mom is a sabra, or she's a sabra.

[00:24:18] Jordan Harbinger: She's probably a sabra. So she's like, "I'm not exactly a cuddly bunny." It's like, well, yeah, you were raised in Israel.

[00:24:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:24:23] Jordan Harbinger: So you're not going to be like, "Oh, hi, thanks for everything. You're going to be like, "Eh, what?" It's a little bit of a New Yorky jersey kind of thing.

[00:24:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. They can be tough cookies, those people.

[00:24:31] Jordan Harbinger: Tough cookies. Yes.

[00:24:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay. So a letter goes on.

[00:24:34] But if something were to happen to her, I'd never forgive myself. She's completely alone and repeatedly gets emotional with me on the phone about how lonely she is, how depressed she is, and how much she regrets having me with my shiksa father.

[00:24:47] Okay. Well, first of all, for anyone who, who doesn't know what shiksa means, it means a non-Jewish person. Second of all, that was an escalation. Like one thing—

[00:24:54] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:24:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's like, "I'm lonely. I'm depressed. Also, I regret having you." What a harsh thing to say to a child.

[00:25:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:25:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: And not something that she should be bringing to her daughter at all.

[00:25:03] Jordan Harbinger: No, just wildly inappropriate.

[00:25:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't really help any, I tend to get very frustrated with her antics and eventually lose patience and start yelling. I don't really have time to be bombarded by her.

[00:25:15] I am so on your side in this letter. It's insane. I just was just like, I'm having a very strong reaction.

[00:25:21] Is it worth it to try to convince my half-batty mother to come back to the states when she firmly does not want to? Especially when we would both be somewhat miserable with each other.

[00:25:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:25:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Should I just leave her in Israel and risk the immense guilt if something happens to her? Signed, A Conflicted Daughter Husna, Disturbing Shift With Her Ima.

[00:25:42] Jordan Harbinger: Did you just rhyme Husna with Ima? That's good. Actually, no, I don't know if that's the worst rhyme you've ever come up with or like a new level of rhyming genius.

[00:25:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's a little bit of both. Let's be honest. I don't know. I was trying to keep it fresh, but I was down to the wire.

[00:25:54] Jordan Harbinger: Rhyming, two English words pronounced differently with one Hebrew word is.

[00:25:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right.

[00:25:58] Jordan Harbinger: So for anyone who doesn't know Ima is mom in Hebrew. I don't know about rhyming it with husna, but you didn't have a whole lot of options. I mean, what? Fema.

[00:26:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly, fema. I did actually go through fema, patina. I don't want to be mean, uh, but that's, I just definitely could not do that.

[00:26:13] Jordan Harbinger: You were right to put it down there.

[00:26:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Thank you.

[00:26:15] Jordan Harbinger: Scream-ma, I don't know.

[00:26:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Scream-ma.

[00:26:17] Jordan Harbinger: They should drop mom in one of those Hamas tunnels and those guys would run right out the other side. She's like, like, oh no, not her again.

[00:26:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: The true iron dome is her sabra of a mother. It's just a Jewish settler who doesn't want to leave. Honestly, this ima does make me want to scream up. It's not even my mom and I'm on the edge.

[00:26:33] Jordan Harbinger: What a stressful situation to be in, especially right now with a war going on. What a mom to have.

[00:26:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: And by the way, thank you for letting us have a little bit of a laugh. We're not trying to be mean to your mom.

[00:26:41] Jordan Harbinger: No, of course.

[00:26:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm sure deep down she's a wonderful person.

[00:26:43] Jordan Harbinger: She means, well, as they say.

[00:26:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think Jordan and I are both having Jewish boy reactions to this kind of mother.

[00:26:48] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, dealing with a personality like this can drive you insane, and I get why you end up snapping at her on the phone. I don't know how you could avoid that. But then she's lonely, she's depressed, she has this heart condition, and she's your mom. So you want to be there for her. You want to help. And that's a tough bind to be in.

[00:27:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Really, Jordan, I feel for her in a huge way. But part of the bind is that her mom needs help.

[00:27:09] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-Hmm.

[00:27:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: But she's also very hard to help. It's confusing.

[00:27:12] Jordan Harbinger: Seriously. Yeah, there's some mixed signals here.

[00:27:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, her daughter is saying, "Okay, you're lonely. You need help. You have a medical condition. So come to the states, live with me." And she's like, "No way. God told me to live in the West Bank or whatever, and they won't let me back in if I leave because Hamas and the leftists are trying to kick me off my land." I mean, it's which one is it?

[00:27:28] Jordan Harbinger: Right? So it's like, what do you do with a person like that? How do you show up for them?

[00:27:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: You can hear that she's already kind of starting to find the answer.

[00:27:36] Yeah.

[00:27:36] Like implicit in the question.

[00:27:37] Jordan Harbinger: Right, which is maybe I just let my mom do what she wants.

[00:27:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, she's making herself very clear, right? She's saying, "I'm not leaving even for a short trip, even for your wedding."

[00:27:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:45] And putting aside her reasons for that, which are objectively insane, that is her choice. And our friend here might need to respect it or at least accept it. Even if she fundamentally disagrees because yes, it is. It is her mom's life.

[00:27:57] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Although I think it's interesting that she also said, if I'm being honest, I don't know if I want my mom living near me. In fact, she's saying they both be miserable with each other.

[00:28:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: I know. I think that is very funny. Because on one hand she's going, "My mom is so frustrating, she won't just listen to me and move here." And then she's also saying, "Well, on the other hand, she might be doing me a huge favor by being so rigid."

[00:28:16] Jordan Harbinger: So maybe she and her mom actually agree about this. Maybe they both want her to stay in Israel, except your mom's not going to let you just have that one. You're going to have to sort of fight to get her there and then give up at the right time so she doesn't actually move.

[00:28:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: I think on one level they do agree about that, but that might be a little bit of a dangerous thing for our friend here to fully acknowledge.

[00:28:34] Jordan Harbinger: It's sad to say, but it is possible that it's better for their relationship in addition to being her mom's wish currently, maybe.

[00:28:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: So I think the real question, and she's already asking this as well, is how to make peace with that choice and how to cope with all of the stuff that it brings up. The main thing it brings up from what I'm hearing is a sense of extreme responsibility for her mother, and we're not just talking about, you know, a basic healthy, baseline sweet concern for a parent. I mean, it sounds like she feels extra responsible for her mom's happiness, and I'm sure that's been a lifelong thing. Like she said, she caved on the wedding to make her mom happy, and that's part of why she's so hurt and so angry now that she's changed her mind. You know, like, how do I please this woman? I'm sure she has dozens and dozens and dozens of examples like that over the course of her life.

[00:29:17] Jordan Harbinger: So what you're getting at is, part of her process here isn't just getting to a point where she can go, "Okay, mom, stay in Israel. I hear you. You got your reasons." It's also learning how to stop feeling like she needs to make her mom happy all the time in every way.

[00:29:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, that's right. And that's such a hard thing to undo with a parent like this, but that's where this very tough decision becomes a great opportunity for her to learn how to separate from mom a little bit more and dis-identify from mom a little bit more and start to let go of some of this responsibility and honestly, guilt that she carries around.

[00:29:48] Jordan Harbinger: But look, letting her mom stay over there means she also has to live with fear. And that's a lot harder to let go of because her mom, she's in an objectively dangerous situation.

[00:29:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:58] Jordan Harbinger: Geographically and otherwise, both as an Israeli settler and anybody in that area at all during this war.

[00:30:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And what's the fix for that? I mean, that's just the reality of the situation. If her mom stays, she's in danger. But again, her mom is making that choice knowing full well the risks, and so respecting her mom's choice also means accepting the consequences of staying there, which is obviously something millions of people around the world are dealing with every single day.

[00:30:24] I thought it was interesting when she said, should I just leave her there and risk the immense guilt if something happens to her? Look, first of all, the phrasing of that question says so much about how you think about your mom. You're not just leaving her there.

[00:30:35] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: She is saying, "I want to stay," and you have the option. And it kind of sounds like your only option right now of saying, "Okay, mom, I hear you. You're going to stay. That's what you want to do. I get it." The second thing is, as we've been talking about, yes, you do risk a lot of feelings. If something ever did happen to her and it's scary and I get it, you would feel sad. You would feel angry. I imagine all of it. But again, the guilt, I'm not so sure that that has to be part of the equation. At least not to the degree that it is right now. Because again, I think that guilt speaks to a sense of obligation that you feel to your mom that is very old and that she is also creating by relying on you as an emotional support, and then at the same time, making it difficult, if not impossible, for you to actually help her.

[00:31:15] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, not to traffic and stereotypes, but this is kind of the definition of the classic Jewish mom, right? The neediness, the complaining. "I'm fine. Leave me alone, but don't hang up. I love you. Save me."

[00:31:26] Gabe, you ever heard that old joke? How many Jewish mothers does it take to change a light bulb?

[00:31:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, God, no, I haven't. What is it?

[00:31:32] Jordan Harbinger: It's fine. I'll just sit in the dock.

[00:31:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's too real. But yeah, exactly. Your question is about whether to lean on your mom to move closer to you or whether leave her alone. But I think what you're really asking, whether she moves closer to you or stays put is, "How do I relate to my mom from here on out? You know, how am I going to work through the rage and the frustration and the guilt that she stirs up in me? How am I going to stop internalizing her so much? Can I live my life on my own terms?" That's the real question. And if you ever did manage to convince her to move closer to you, you would probably have to do that even more, because you guys would have even more contact. So this is actually really important.

[00:32:11] Jordan Harbinger: I think that's absolutely right, Gabe, but look, on a practical level, if your mom stays in Israel, you obviously want to do everything you can to keep tabs on her, make sure she's okay. So I would obviously stay in touch. I would try to get the contact information of any friend. She has neighbors places. She frequently goes. Maybe you book a trip to visitor when things calm down a little bit. Would not go right now. This is how so many people look out for their family members when they're halfway across the world. We're not saying you shouldn't talk to your mom anymore, or that you shouldn't care. What I think Gabe's getting at is what does caring really look like?

[00:32:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:43] What should it look like for you?

[00:32:45] That's right.

[00:32:46] There might come a day when your mom just can't stay there anymore. Like if she has a serious medical crisis or her settlement becomes a lot more dangerous, or she can't live by herself anymore. And when that happens, you'll know when it's time to say, "Mom, I'm sorry, but I'm putting my foot down. You can't live there by yourself anymore. You're coming to me." Or you hire someone to look out for, make sure she has the support that she needs. You'll know what solution is required when the time comes. But until then, I do think there's something to be said for letting her stay. And I say that knowing full well how difficult that is, and ironically, how much easier it is for you in a big way, which is yet another difficult fact that you get to work through. But that's life, right? There are levels and angles to every decision, and there's just rarely one perfect solution.

[00:33:29] I'm sorry that your mom is so tough. She sounds, well, she's your mom, you know, but there's an opportunity here for you to learn to let go of some of the distress that she causes you. We're sending you and your mom the best. We hope she stays safe, both from the war and the 5G magnetic vaccine lizard people. And we're wishing you both all the best. Oh, congrats on the wedding, big or small, moms or no moms. I hope it's a special day for you.

[00:33:53] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise, use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in the mailbox, your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or you're sitting on a massive family secret that your husband was not your stepson's father and you don't know whether to spill the beans. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:34:19] Oh, and by the way, speaking of that, Gabe manages the inbox and he chooses the questions and he edits them, and then he makes them anonymous before I ever see them. So there's been some show fans that I've met up with and they're like, "Yeah, you know that thing I wrote you about? It's not really as bad as—" and I'm like, "Hey, I don't know about this so you don't have to disclaim it before we go to lunch or whatever, because you're embarrassed. So if you're hesitant about writing in because you talk to me on some other channel, or you know me personally, and you don't want to share something personal, you don't have to worry about that at all. I never know who anyone is on Feedback Friday, and that is by design.

[00:34:51] Okay, next up.

[00:34:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I met a girl earlier this year and we're now in love and everything is pretty great. However, when we met, she was still technically with her boyfriend of nine years living with him and their 8-year-old son.

[00:35:06] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm. Okay. So I know people meet at crazy moments, feelings change, relationships evolve, but this is already complicated.

[00:35:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: She says that he's been emotionally abusive the entire time they've been together, that he cheated on her and that he's an alcoholic.

[00:35:21] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm. Okay. So not a great dude.

[00:35:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: She's tried to leave him several times, but says that due to financial reasons and not being able to find affordable housing, she's reluctantly stayed with him.

[00:35:30] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Well, that's tricky. The financial aspect of relationships can keep people stuck in really bad situations. That happens all the time, especially when there are children involved. But that can also sometimes be an excuse for people to not leave dangerous situations. So let's see where this goes.

[00:35:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: She says she's been unhappy their entire relationship. Then, she met me, which gave her the motivation to formally break up with her ex two months ago.

[00:35:54] I always find it interesting when someone's in an objectively terrible situation and they should just get out for their own reasons. But then they meet somebody and it's like, "Oh, finally I have a reason to leave because there's another option for me.

[00:36:04] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:36:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: And it's like, I don't know. That's an interesting wrinkle to the story.

[00:36:06] Jordan Harbinger: Well, it's a red flag, right? Because it means, "I don't want to be alone." That's the worst thing, being an abusive relationship. Ah, it's not as bad as being alone. Like, wait a minute. Yeah, it's worse by a lot.

[00:36:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's kind of what I'm getting at. That's right. So the letter goes on.

[00:36:19] She says she's totally in love with me and she introduces me to her friends as her boyfriend, but she refuses to tell her ex about me because she's concerned that he'll flip out. She also says how much he's emotionally falling apart and that he feels sideswiped by her abruptly breaking up with him when he thought things were fine.

[00:36:36] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man. So she's still essentially in a relationship with this guy, still living with him, even though they technically broke up and she has a new boyfriend.

[00:36:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: The "I'm afraid he is going to flip out," and the whole, like "he's falling apart right now" thing, I don't know, that paints a picture for me again of a woman who's still kind of taking care of this guy and probably prioritizing him over herself and her new boyfriend. So I wouldn't be surprised if the money element were not the main reason she's still there, but we'll see.

[00:37:03] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed she might have financial problems, but the old I can't find an affordable apartment might just be a convenient excuse to avoid making an actual hard decision and rocking the boat.

[00:37:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. So the letter goes on.

[00:37:14] I'm a very compassionate person, so I find myself feeling bad for all of them, including the ex.

[00:37:20] That's very interesting.

[00:37:21] Jordan Harbinger: That is interesting. So the ex is a total mess. Your girlfriend is protecting him and you're sympathizing with all of them, probably to your own detriment. Got it.

[00:37:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm very uncomfortable with her continuing to live with him without giving me any clear indication of a plan to either move out of their place or ask him to leave.

[00:37:38] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, yeah, it's not a real relationship dude. She's still entangled with this guy. She's not stepping up and defining her life the right way.

[00:37:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: He goes on.

[00:37:47] It's no longer a financial issue. She has the money. I've even offered to help her by lending funds.

[00:37:52] Oh, okay. So that answers that. She's definitely sticking around because she's afraid of him and/or she's still getting something out of this arrangement. Yeah.

[00:38:00] Jordan Harbinger: This woman has some things to resolve.

[00:38:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:02] Jordan Harbinger: Candidly, this is raising a ton of red flags, but it's possible she just doesn't know how to assert herself and tell people what she wants and/or the fact that they have a child together is complicating matters and keeps her tethered to him.

[00:38:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that is fair. Because that does make things maybe more complicated—

[00:38:17] Jordan Harbinger: It does.

[00:38:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: —if they have a child and are we still co-parenting and what does that look like and how do the finances work? And I'm afraid to be a mom on my own, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So he goes on.

[00:38:26] She was saying how urgent it was to leave that apartment. She's not saying that anymore. Anytime I bring it up, she gets upset and says she feels pressured. I don't know what to do. I'm in love with her, but my gut tells me that she might not ever actually leave him. What should I do? Signed, A Half Boyfriend, Half Stuck with This Half Partner and Her Old Buck.

[00:38:48] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh. You need to tell your girlfriend, who is your girlfriend, not this other guy's girlfriend that you guys are together now and you want to know where you stand and build your life together. And her living with her toxic ex is weird. It's dysfunctional. It honestly makes zero sense and that she needs to tell him that she's moving out or he's moving out, or you can't feel secure or excited about your relationship with her. It's really as simple as that. It's not a crazy thing to expect. It is so weird that she's still living with this guy, and she has to know that.

[00:39:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: I have a very strong feeling that there's more to the story than the facts here.

[00:39:22] Jordan Harbinger: I also think so, and it makes me sad. It makes me uncomfortable and sad. Maybe it's more dangerous than they're letting on, also.

[00:39:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm also wondering about that. You know, to your point earlier, his girlfriend is very concerned about protecting her ex and being there for him, even now, but it's not like it was a great relationship and he's this solid guy and they're transitioning to being friends, and they're going to be great co-parents.

[00:39:42] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, this dude emotionally abused her. He cheated on her. He's struggling with an addiction, so presumably not a great father, I'm guessing. So the fact that she wants to make sure he's okay is already a worrisome sign, and that's precisely the codependence that probably help make their toxic relationship possible. And where my mind goes is, is she going to bring that into her new relationship with our friend here?

[00:40:04] Jordan Harbinger: There's also a darker possibility here, which is that this guy still has her under his thumb in some way.

[00:40:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:40:09] Jordan Harbinger: Emotionally, physically, who knows? And she's just terrified that he's going to do something to her if she leaves. And if that's the case, then this situation is a lot more serious. And then it's about how to leave a domestic abuse situation. But based on what you've shared, this guy just says some really mean things. And I know that can get in someone's head and be very intense, but it that should not stop her from leaving the guy, especially with your help.

[00:40:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: The fact that she gets upset and says that she feels pressured when our friend here says, "Hey, I think it's time to move out." That says a lot. I think that's the key to this.

[00:40:39] Jordan Harbinger: I agree. But again, I don't quite know what that reaction's about.

[00:40:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Is she getting worked up and defensive because he's pushing her to make a decision and she's just not comfortable putting her foot down? Is she freaking out because she's legitimately afraid of this guy? Is she just really bad with change and she's just like trying to keep things on an even keel? I don't know. Is she afraid of hurting her ex-boyfriend's feelings, which is another aspect of the caretaking and the codependence, and she's just kinda like paralyzed.

[00:41:05] Jordan Harbinger: Or, and I just got to raise this possibility, I'm sorry to bring it up, but are they still maybe kind of carrying on romantically and/or she still has feelings for him? Come on, man.

[00:41:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: I guess we have to acknowledge the possibility. I don't know. Doesn't sound like it, but I guess it's possible.

[00:41:18] Soundbite: Come on, man.

[00:41:20] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, she did formally break up with him, supposedly. So that makes me think. No, but whether they're actually romantic or not, she is involved with him. I mean, come on. It's so weird. I just can't get over it.

[00:41:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: What we know for sure about this woman is that she's messy.

[00:41:34] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: She met our friend here when she was still with her ex, which given their relationship makes a lot of sense and maybe isn't the worst thing, but it is messy. And when she got together with him, she kept living at her ex's house, which only compounds the mess. And when our friend goes, "Okay, so here's how we make this clear and simple," she's going, "No, I can't do that to him. He is not in a good place. I'm not ready. Don't pressure me."

[00:41:55] Jordan Harbinger: Continuing the mess and making this mess even messier. Yeah.

[00:41:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:58] Jordan Harbinger: So I think you need to really sort this out with your girlfriend and it might involve giving her an ultimatum. You might have to say, "Look, you're either with me or you're with him and you need to make a choice." But more importantly, I would try to help your girlfriend explore why this decision is so hard for her.

[00:42:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:13] Jordan Harbinger: What's keeping her there? Why is she afraid to draw a line? Why is she willing to tolerate this confusing situation? How much the child they have together is playing a role? All of it. Candidly, I'm just very concerned about what this says about her. I worry that these qualities will show up in your relationship, they often do, but that doesn't mean she can't grow. She might just need some help, but she needs to be willing to accept that help. She can't shut down and push you away and blame you for pressuring her when all you're doing is encouraging her to grow up and make a fair decision. If she keeps doing that, then that would be a real deal breaker for me if I were in your shoes. Hope you can get through to her. Hope she can invite you in and good luck.

[00:42:53] You know who definitely wants to shack up with you and only you? The amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:43:03] This episode is sponsored in part by The China Show. Have you ever checked out the China show on YouTube yet? It's fascinating. It's got my two friends. They've actually lived in China for years. They dive deep into the intricacies of China's culture, politics, and society. I like their newest episode as of right now on Xi Jinping's visit to San Francisco, and why some people in China are mad that they have to play nice with the West now. They also talk about China's EV industry, the crazy floods and other events and disasters over in China. There's even something lately about Chinese people eating rocks, and I thought that sounded like BS until I saw people eating rocks. Anyway, the way they break down complex topics and present them in such an engaging format, it's impressive. Each episode offers a new perspective shedding light on aspects of China that you might not have considered before. Whether you're into geopolitics, culture, or you just love learning about different parts of the world, The China Show has something to offer. It's the kind of content that makes you think and gives you a better understanding of a major global player. Definitely worth watching, and it's got Laowhy who's been on the show, Winston, who's been on the show. You're going to love it. Go to YouTube, check out The China Show.

[00:44:05] This episode is also sponsored by Wrkout. Let me tell you about Wrkout. It's a virtual personal training platform developed by a friend of mine. It's been a fantastic decision for my fitness journey that I started three years ago offering the convenience of a personal trainer right at my fingertips. I've lifted my whole life, so I was like, I don't know. Do I need a trainer? I don't know. It is a game changer. Jen has really taken to it too. She finally started this year. She's consistently doing three sessions a week since mid-June, and she's seeing amazing results regaining the pre-baby strength. Get the pre-baby body back. My 82-year-old mom has stopped her regular walks because we lost our family dog. But Wrkout has not only encouraged her to get active again, it's also provided her with a meaningful connection to her trainer who's like her BFF now, which has been a major boost, both for her mood and her health. I think my mom is in better shape than she was when she was 50, honestly. As for myself, I'm committed to four sessions a week with trainers, Chad and Kareem. They monitor my heart rate in real time. Use a virtual timer if I have something where I'm like, "Hey, my leg hurts, or my back hurts." We do basically physio sessions and I just stay healthy. It's nothing I could never do on my own. Of course, the workouts are challenging and I get real results. The real highlight is the flexibility is unmatched. It's like having a real professional training session wherever and whenever you want. When I go traveling, I forget about hunting for gyms or skipping workouts. I literally just bring my laptop to the hotel gym and we make do with what's there, and I get a badass workout. Pretty much, even if there's no gym, I'll do it in the room. With Wrkout a topnotch trainer, it's just a click away. So if you're serious about making a change, I can't recommend this enough. You got to try it out. They don't pay me to promote them at all. I just do this when I have available ad spots. I genuinely love and recommend this. You can email me, I'm happy to refer you. You can also go to community.workout.com, community.W-R-K-O-U-T.com.

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[00:46:14] Now, back to Feedback Friday.

[00:46:17] Okay, what's next?

[00:46:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, my boyfriend is a well-known photographer and artist. He posts a lot of his work on social media, and as his social media following has grown significantly so have various dubious requests by a lot of NFT promoters who want to sell his art. He's mostly been dismissive of these requests, but lately they've gotten more professional and serious sounding, and he's now considering a few of the offers that he's received. He thinks this might be a good investment because you know, some Time magazine cover or whatever sold for some insane amount of Ethereum, but I'm not so sure. I've done some legwork on NFTs and I personally can only see this as a scam of some sort, a bad investment and possible loss of rights to his own art, at best. To quote you, Jordan, if 99 percent of these investments are scams, why would it be any different for those providing the art? Do you have any advice on this or ideas about how to navigate the situation? Signed, A Gal Trying to Spill the NFT.

[00:47:19] Jordan Harbinger: Hmm. I like that one NFT as in well, yeah. Nice, Gabe, right.

[00:47:23] So the NFT world, it's kind of a mess and very murky and I know people who are really into it are going to be like, "You just don't understand them." I understand them very well and I'm surrounded by some of the brightest minds in the crypto sphere. There's a lot of BS and scams in blockchain, period. If you look at the numbers, trading volumes for NFTs have just totally collapsed as of this month. I think they've gone from a billion dollars a week a couple years ago to something like under a hundred million today.

[00:47:49] So it's not dead, but it's bad. I mean, it's 90-plus percent down, which is bad for any kind of thing. Of course, different people have different views on this. NFT evangelists and entrepreneurs who obviously have a very vested interest in propping up the NFT industry, they're saying things like, "Hey, this is normal. Peaks and troughs are part of the business." But a lot of other people, including the most bullish crypto Bitcoiners, are saying, "Yeah, this is a total flash in the pan. It's not a real product, and it's fundamentally dumb."

[00:48:16] I'm not saying NFTs won't have some value long-term potentially. I mean, a thing is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. So if people continue to be willing to pay for NFTs, and I don't understand why they would, but that's a separate point. If they're willing to fork over money for a picture of an anime character or whatever, then sure NFTs are, quote-unquote, "real" and they'll be, quote-unquote, "valuable." But I myself fall more in the second camp. I just don't think that this NFT thing and its current iteration is going to hold up.

[00:48:44] Also, a lot of this NFT business is "I'm selling a picture of a llama to myself for $300,000 in Ethereum, because then it's supposedly worth $300,000," which to me is why NFTs really do seem like a greater fool scam. So you, quote-unquote, "prove" the worth of the NFT by inflating the value by selling it to yourself or somebody you know, maybe. Then you or they try to sell it to somebody else and pocket the difference and art galleries were doing this and stuff like that. I mean, I know people that did a bunch of this and it really was lucrative as long as they found a dumb ass to part with their crypto funds.

[00:49:20] And it's interesting, based on what I've read, NFTs are actually enabling money laundering, people just converting and moving funds around in shady ways using these silly assets. I'm not going to get into the weeds on that, but I, I know some anti-money laundering people, they pointed this out to me right away.

[00:49:35] Bottom line, the bubble popped on NFTs months and months ago. The most popular NFTs was the Bored Ape series, I believe. And these notoriously went from like two million dollars to $2,500 or whatever. I think Justin Bieber and other celebrities got super screwed on those. His NFT lost like 95-plus percent of its value. But for an artist like your boyfriend who's being asked to sell his work as NFTs, the calculation may change a little bit. Who knows? Maybe there's some money to be made. It all depends on what the contracts look like.

[00:50:06] If these people who want him to provide the art, if they're willing to pay him a certain amount of money upfront, and he's happy with that number. Maybe it's worth it. A deal like that could theoretically be a lot of upside with very little risk to him. If they're saying, "Hey, we'd love to sell your art as NFTs, you'll get nothing upfront, but you'll get X percent of whatever we manage to sell. And Y royalties down the line," eh, it's probably a waste of time. I'd be skeptical. The likelihood of seeing real money is much, much lower, obviously, much riskier. He should only be working with a reputable NFT company. And I almost chuckle as I say that because reputable in the NFT world is kind of highly ambiguous and relative. And if he's somehow a partner to the NFT creators, rather than just an artist selling or licensing his work at arm's length, I'd be concerned about him being personally liable if the token goes sideways.

[00:50:56] And also don't let them pay him in pretend money that they have crafted, right? He needs cash or Bitcoin or Ethereum, not, "Oh, we've got photo coin and it's NFT money for photography. It's not going to be worth anything. It's a Ponzi scheme and he's going to be a part of it. Also, if he does any NFT deals, he needs a super solid attorney to make sure the contracts are solid, not the contract on the blockchain, a real paper, legally enforceable one. I'm no expert in this world by any means, but a few things that he should look out for are, well, he should definitely retain ownership/copyright of his intellectual property, otherwise somebody else could own his photos and that's no good. Or if he's willing to give that up. He'd better get a good price for it. And he's got to define that in the agreement. He's got to define royalties, how they're calculated, how they're tracked, how they're paid out. He's got to make sure contracts state exactly what artwork is being sold down to the file names and the metadata. It's also got to stipulate who pays for things like the storage of the NFT once the token changes ownership. Your boyfriend should not be on the hook for that kind of technical stuff. And probably many, many more things I don't even know about. But those are some of the big ones. This is based on just some quick research we did in my hazy memory of contract law.

[00:52:06] So yes, 99 percent of these investments are probably either dumb or just straight up scams. But it could be different for those providing the art if the deals are favorable to the artist. But boy, do I have a surprise for you. Most deals with artists are not favorable to the artists from music, to movies, to literally anything that artists are involved in. That's basically been true forever.

[00:52:27] But anyway, it all depends on the terms he's being offered. You're right to be skeptical, but hey, if he can make some money from this craze in a non shady way that doesn't victimize people more power to him, just make sure it's all in the up and up. They're not just taking your boyfriend's artwork for next to nothing and promising him tons of riches down the line in pretend Monopoly money and then praying they can convince enough ignorant people to buy the NFT and resell it a thousand times in order to make money.

[00:52:50] I think it's pretty cool. Your boyfriend is a big following with his work though. I'm more excited about that and his potential in his career in that area than I am about anything NFT related specifically, and good luck both to you and him. Okay, next up.

[00:53:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 16-year-old guy, and just this month I lost my father to alcoholism.

[00:53:10] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, I am so sorry to hear that. That is horrible. What a thing to go through.

[00:53:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: For as long as I can remember, my father has been that one constant, the only real provider of love in my life. I'm loved by many, but he was the only one who really understood me. I'm now plagued with feelings of sadness and regret. The day before he died, I was at a 12-hour school tournament and I never got to tell him how well I placed.

[00:53:36] Uh, bud, I mean, you couldn't have known that, right? I mean, this is obviously not your fault, but I understand.

[00:53:41] Jordan Harbinger: Look, I'm sure you guys had tons of important moments together. He probably wanted you at school, crushing it in your tournament. I do understand why you feel this way. Nobody wants to not be around for this moment, right?

[00:53:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: It might be because I'm a diagnosed autist, but I float between total numbness and sheer sadness. The type of sadness that causes unstoppable crying. I've been coping by playing video games and I feel aimless.

[00:54:05] Jordan Harbinger: Look, of course you're grieving. This is painful stuff. I don't think it's because you're autistic, it's because you're grieving. Maybe there's a twist on it because of that. But look, everything you're describing completely normal. It's a reflection of how much you loved your dad, but I hear you, you're really going through it right now.

[00:54:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: So he goes on.

[00:54:21] My mom has floated the idea of going to therapy, but I feel unsafe talking to a therapist due to being hurt so badly before. I find comfort in knowing my secrets are known only to me. Being a closed book is a coping mechanism, but it's eating away at me. To add salt to the wound, I woke up yesterday to learn that my father's father passed away too. It had been coming. He had cancer. We were never close. He was a very bad father to my father. But now that my dad is gone, I can't hug him or tell him I love him.

[00:54:52] Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. This is a lot of loss. Even if you weren't super close with your grandfather, it's sad. It's intense.

[00:54:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: What a heavy time. Also, I got to say interesting that your grandfather was a bad father and then your father ended up wrestling with addiction. I assume those are connected in some way. It's a sad cycle.

[00:55:09] Almost certainly related.

[00:55:11] I pride myself on my keen intellect, but my heart is shattered. I've thought of ending it all, but I don't think my dad would want that. Regardless, these thoughts plague me. How do I move on from such a debilitating loss? Signed, Scraping By and Try Not to Cry, But Still Too Shy to Rely on Someone as I Say Goodbye.

[00:55:31] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Well, first of all, thank you so much for sharing all this with us. I know you're going through a very intense transition right now, and I love that you opened up to us in this way. Losing a parent is an extremely painful experience. Losing a parent at 16, devastating, losing a parent at your age to alcoholism, I mean, there are just no words. This is incredibly tragic. Your dad's pain was very deep. It sounds like he didn't always have the tools to process it and stay healthy, and now you guys are left carrying this sadness. It's awful, and I'm so very sorry that you are going through it. So look, we talk about this on the show from time to time.

[00:56:08] When it comes to big losses like this, it's not so much about moving on, it's about moving through and moving through means allowing yourself, and I mean, really allowing yourself to feel everything that your dad's loss is bringing up. The sadness, the anger, the regret, the fear, all of it. And not suppressing those feelings or numbing too much or running away from them because they're scary and uncomfortable to grieve well and come out the other side. You have to be in touch with all of this stuff.

[00:56:37] I know you're looking for a shortcut or an off switch, some way to short circuit the pain, and I get it. Nothing could be more normal, but there isn't. Life just doesn't work that way, unfortunately. We got to feel the feelings as annoying as that is, we got to talk about 'em, make meaning out of them. That's really all we have. I know this loss is debilitating as you put it. But what makes it more debilitating is numbing, avoiding, suppressing those feelings, they have to go somewhere. Over time, they will get easier. I promise. You're at the hardest part of this process. The loss is fresh, the sadness is overwhelming, but it does get easier naturally on its own.

[00:57:15] And I know it's a cliche, but time does work wonders. It heals all wounds. So obviously, I'd love for you to accept your mom's invitation to go to therapy. I think that's very wise. I. That would be an extremely helpful space for you to talk about your dad right now and to explore everything else going on in your life for that matter. But I'm especially eager for you to find some support right now because of the suicidal ideation you're experiencing.

[00:57:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:37] Jordan Harbinger: And again, thank you for sharing that with us. I know that's a scary thing to acknowledge, even though every single human being at some point has thoughts like that. And when you do. It's essential that you talk to somebody about them, essential. And the best person is a trained professional who can really help you unpack them in a safe space. So I say go. Go as soon as you can to therapy.

[00:57:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I got to tell you, we get so many letters from young people saying, "I want to go to therapy, but my parents won't let me. Or I really need to go. But if I told my mom or my dad that I really need to go to therapy, they would freak out and they would think they did something wrong." So the fact that your mom is offering to take you to therapy is amazing. I mean, she's giving you a huge gift here and, yeah, I'm with Jordan. If I were you, I would accept it. But I hear you that you're wary about going and it is scary and that is also very normal. Maybe it's the fact that you've been hurt by people in the past, as you said, maybe it's being on the autism spectrum. Maybe it's just how your family operates. It might feel safer and more familiar for you to be a closed book.

[00:58:38] But I also hear you when you say that being a closed book is eating away at you. And that makes a lot of sense. So you know that this approach is not really working and it is coming at a huge cost to you. And also I find it very interesting that you pride yourself on your keen intellect. So you're obviously smart, you're a heady guy, you're very, you know, like mind forward. And that can often be a defense. And it's a very common defense for smart people, right? They tend to intellectualize and intellectualization can be a defense against feeling all of these feelings that are coming up to ward those feelings off, and to try to get at them in a very safe and controlled way, kind of like above the shoulders, you know?

[00:59:16] Like you said, your heart is shattered, and so your only real option is to go in there, go down in there and find out what's really going on. So yes, it's uncomfortable, and yes, it's scary, and yes, it's so new for you, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I think that actually means it's very important. The right therapist could be such a game changer for you, and they could help you address all of this trauma, not just your dad's death, but these experiences in the past that are making it hard for you to open up and trust people. And honestly, I think that could change the course of your life.

[00:59:46] Jordan Harbinger: I completely agree. Maybe you and your mom can find someone together, someone who's a good fit and ideally understands addiction and autism and grief, and all these themes you're dealing with.

[00:59:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-Hmm.

[00:59:57] Jordan Harbinger: And just take a chance and start talking.

[00:59:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not to belabor this, Jordan, but going to therapy and working on this stuff is what his dad should have done. And instead of talking about his dad and what he struggled with, he tragically turned to addiction. It's like a completely different path.

[01:00:11] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Something very painful has been passed down here. It sucks that he inherited it, but now it's his to work through, and I know there's some really huge growth in store for him. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss, my dude. You deserve better. It's a real shame your dad got to this point. It's just incredibly sad. But here you are. You are going to be okay. Don't worry about moving on. Just move through as thoughtfully as you can and find the support you need. Invite this stuff in and trust that this intense process is going to take you exactly where you need to go. We're sending you and your mom a huge hug, and we're wishing you all the best.

[01:00:46] Okay, before we wrap up here, our teammate, Jase, you guys might know him as our audio engineer, also as the guy who's been making two grown men cry around here lately with that amazing life story that he shared with us a couple of months back. Jase's father passed away recently and suddenly. And just like our young friend here, Jase, has been going through it as you can imagine. His dad sounds like a very special guy, and we wanted to just take a moment to honor him on Feedback Friday and send Jase our love as well.

[01:01:14] Also, Jase told us that before his dad died, this was a while back on his dad's birthday, right after his dad saw one of his colleagues at work get into a serious accident, which apparently shook him up quite a bit. Jase wrote him a letter telling him how much he means to him, how his dad made him the man he is today. One of those big, heartfelt letters that he wanted to write for a long time, but just never did. And then the accident moved him to finally sit down to do it. And as you can imagine, it was a really special document.

[01:01:43] We're not going to read the letter, but Jase shared it with us. And as per usual, it was a real tear jerker. So thanks for making us cry yet again, Jase.

[01:01:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Seriously.

[01:01:51] Jordan Harbinger: It's his specialty.

[01:01:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, for a repressed Britt, Jase sure knows how to tug of the heartstrings. I mean,—

[01:01:56] Jordan Harbinger: He does.

[01:01:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's really funny.

[01:01:57] Jordan Harbinger: Sometimes I'm like, are you sure you're from England? This isn't doing any favors to that famous, stiff upper lip.

[01:02:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it's not.

[01:02:02] Jordan Harbinger: Anyway, part of the letter that really got me was when Jase said, "I don't want to wait to say these things to you in case something ever happens to you. And I'm realizing that for me not to tell you how grateful I am is only adding to my own selfishness," which I don't think Jase was ever selfish. Just like I don't think our friend from the previous letter did anything wrong by going to a tournament for school. You know, there's always more we could have said, there's always more life to live. Them's the rules and no one's perfect. And we're all trying our best. But I love this. Jace was hoping that more people might be inspired to write similar letters to the people that they love.

[01:02:36] So we just wanted to share that with you guys. Not in a preachy way. Hopefully just in a, "Hey, this is a really sweet thing. Nothing's guaranteed in life. Maybe give it a go. Don't wait to say the things you want to say to the people you care about." That's all. A letter, like the one we just heard really drives that one home. And it was interesting that it arrived just as Jase was going through this transition himself. So we wanted to pass Jase's invitation along. It could be as formal as a letter, it could be a text message, could be a voice note, could be a string of weird emoji that only makes sense inside your family or friend group. It doesn't matter. As long as you're taking a moment to tell the people you care about what they mean to you. Could take you 60 seconds. It might mean the world to them.

[01:03:16] So thank you again, Jase, for the awesome reminder. You're a real one. You're a great son. I'm sure your dad was super proud of you. We're so sorry that you had to say goodbye, but I know that this transition is that much easier and that much more meaningful because you took the time to tell your dad those things when you did.

[01:03:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:32] Jordan Harbinger: Taking that into my weekend for sure. I'm going to do something like this myself. And I hope all you will as well. And I want to thank everybody who wrote in this week and everybody who listened, as usual, thank you so much. Go back and check out David Eagleman and Morgan Housel if you haven't yet. David and I had a great time. So did Morgan and I. If you want to lighten the mood a little bit, you haven't heard those, go grab those right now.

[01:03:50] The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like and trust. I'm teaching you how to build that. To get the Six-Minute Networking course. It's free. I don't want your credit card number. It's not a gross thing. It's just digging the well before you're thirsty. Build relationships before you need them. You can find it at jordanharbinger.com/course.

[01:04:08] Also, our newsletter, if you haven't signed up yet, jordanharbinger.com/news. We resurface and all of that. We go grab those gems and takeaways and we put it right in your inbox. 900-plus episodes, we're going to have plenty of material. Again at jordanharbinger.com/news. Show notes and transcripts on the website at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers deals, discounts, and ways to support the show at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe is over on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi or on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi.

[01:04:40] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.

[01:04:55] Dr. Margolis' input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance, not that you thought it did.

[01:05:08] Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

[01:05:24] You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with a pain psychologist that helps people manage chronic pain when all else has failed.

[01:05:31] Dr. Rachel Zoffness: None of us are going to escape pain. Pain is part of being human. All of us, at some point, if we haven't already, are going to experience pain. Seems about time we understood it, knew how it worked, and knew what to do about it.

[01:05:44] So I am what's called a pain psychologist, which no one has ever heard of. People say, "Oh, well, you must treat emotional pain." The answer to that is no. Pain is always both physical and emotional. That's what neuroscience says. And in fact, what we know, we that negative emotions like stress and anxiety or depression or anger or frustration, turn up pain volume in the brain. We think and are trained that pain lives in the body like in your back or in your knee. It is of course, true that things may be going wrong in your back or in your knee, but that isn't where pain lives, pain lives in the brain.

[01:06:24] Pain does not always indicate danger. When you have chronic pain and your brain has become sensitive, small bits of non-dangerous input from the body are being interpreted incorrectly as dangerous. You've seen that car alarm. You're looking out your window and that car, the lights are flashing and the horn is beeping, and you're like, bruh, no one's breaking in. You're safe. The glass isn't even broken. That's a brain on chronic pain. So it's just so important for people with pain to know that part of what's happening for them is that their brain has become extra sensitive and it is alarming when it doesn't need to and it can be hacked.

[01:07:09] Guess what you and I are doing today?

[01:07:11] Jordan Harbinger: To hear more from Dr. Rachel Zoffness about how pain works in the body and brain, check out episode 661 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[01:07:22] This episode is sponsored in part by Strictly Stalking podcast. Hey, listeners, I know there's no shortage of true crime content out there, but I have to tell you about this new podcast to binge on. It's called Strictly Stalking, which is a clever title I admit. Every Tuesday host, Jaimie and Jake cover a unique stalking case by interviewing stalking survivors, advocates and experts. Each episode is jaw dropping and really opens your eyes to seeing that stalkers aren't just jealous exes. They can be neighbors, family members, classmates, even complete strangers. Just imagine being stalked by somebody you met on a dating app that's episode 153, or by the worship leader from your church, episode 137. I mean, that's surprising, but shouldn't be, right? Because those people often seek positions of power and they're creepy. It's just terrifying to know that these downright, yeah, creepy experiences are real. They're super common. There's not much our justice system can even do to help the victims until it reaches just out of control levels of violence and threats. Jamie and Jake are more than just the voices on the podcast. They're actually trying to make a positive change for survivors of stalking, and they're taking us along for the ride. Glad they're helping bring awareness to the reality of stalking and hopefully help others who are in these types of crazy situations. We've heard those situations on Feedback Friday. They're absolutely real and absolutely terrifying. Check out Strictly Stalking on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.