711: Prankster Precariously Pushing Partner’s Patience | Feedback Friday

711: Prankster Precariously Pushing Partner’s Patience | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the web telescope, helping me capture these never before seen galaxies of life advice, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind.

[00:00:41] If you're new to the show on Fridays, that's today, it doesn't matter when you're listening, we give advice to you. We answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week we had Dr. John Abramson. This is about big pharma and is terrifying. This guy's an insider and talks about why big pharma is not only impeding innovation but why Americans have terrible healthcare outcomes worse than even people who are lower middle class or even poor in other Western countries. This episode will keep you up at night. We also had Sebastian Junger. He is a former war photographer, a great writer, great thinker. That's one from the vault. I think you'll all really enjoy it.

[00:01:26] As y'all know, I write every so often on the blog, my latest post, the dangers of toxic positivity and how to avoid it. In this article, I talk about the huge downside to only looking at the upside and the damage that relentless positivity can actually cause in your life, and most importantly, how to cultivate the right kind of positivity. So you can make the best decisions for meaningful relationships and process your experiences, good and bad, in the most productive way. I highly recommend checking this one out. It's one of those topics that gets me a little bit worked up kinda like hustle culture. And I think it's especially important to be talking about right now. You can find that article in all of our articles at jordanharbinger.com/articles. Make sure you've had a look and listen to everything that we created for you here this week.

[00:02:12] Now, today we're doing something a little different from our usual Feedback Friday. This is one of our semi-annual sort of WTF episodes where we take some of the weirdest or funniest or most unusual questions that ended up in our inbox over the last few months. Gabriel, I got to say it's probably not even the most, it's just the ones that happen to be towards the top when we were making a, could we get some weird stuff—

[00:02:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm

[00:02:33] Jordan Harbinger: —in there?

[00:02:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: We do.

[00:02:34] Jordan Harbinger: So if you're looking for a more traditional advice show when Gabe and I don't talk about ourselves quite so much. Maybe start with one of our other Feedback Friday episodes first although we do have a few normal questions in the mix here, of course, to keep it valuable. So this episode won't be a total circle jerk, I promise. Gabe, since we're letting our hair down — oh, sorry about that. Since I'm letting my hair down a little bit here today.

[00:02:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fair enough. Yeah, I don't have it anymore to — it doesn't apply.

[00:03:01] Jordan Harbinger: I do have a crazy story that I haven't told before, and I just sort of got clearance to talk about it because the guy — well, you'll know why in a second. So a show fan, here's the Daniel Levin episode, if you haven't heard that one yet, super interesting. He runs an NGO that does a lot of business, if you can call it that, in the Middle East. And he gets called upon quite often to help negotiate hostage situations. And that's one of the stories that the episode that we did was about, well, a show fan texts me, a guy I've known for a long time, a few months or a few weeks after the show and goes, "You're never going to believe this but I need help with a kidnapping," and I'm thinking something US-based. And he says, "No, my girlfriend's cousin got kidnapped in Nigeria."

[00:03:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow.

[00:03:42] Jordan Harbinger: He was abducted from a train and I'm like, "Really? Does that sound legit?" And he's like, "Google it," so I google it. Sure enough, 42-something people, whatever it was, on a high-speed train, train gets blocked in. They shoot it, full of holes with the machine gun. A bunch of people, I think, die. They run off—

[00:03:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my god.

[00:03:58] Jordan Harbinger: —into the jungle or something like this with like 42 people. And they let some of the locals go like some of the poor, poorer probably folks. They let them go and they keep this guy for months and months.

[00:04:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow.

[00:04:12] Jordan Harbinger: And the whole time I'm sort of backchanneling between Daniel Levin, my show fan buddy. And she's using that information because Daniel Levin is, like, "I've heard something about this specific incident. You want to talk to like this sheikh in Nigeria," and I'm like, "This is crazy good, useful info."

[00:04:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow.

[00:04:30] Jordan Harbinger: And basically her family in Nigeria used some of the information to ransom, we think, at least they let him go. They're not talking about really much more than that, but they helped use that information to find the guy find out he was still alive and that he was kicking and they let him go. But if he was captive for something like four and a half, five months.

[00:04:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. So he's home now?

[00:04:51] Jordan Harbinger: He's home — well, he's in the hospital.

[00:04:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's in the hospital.

[00:04:54] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:04:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, wow.

[00:04:55] Jordan Harbinger: He was shot and he recovered, but you know, he recovered in the hut in the jungle while being moved around by terrorists.

[00:05:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my god. That is insane. That is like a crazy travel story.

[00:05:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So Daniel Levin, shout out to him for helping handle this kidnapped situation that we had on the show. Because my buddy, the show fan, he had no idea what to do. And his girlfriend was like, "What do I do? My family in Nigeria is like, 'We don't even know where he is.'" So I'm like, "I know guys who know stuff about kidnapping," and sure enough, Daniel is like, "I heard about this. The guy who's going to know where these guys are is this sheikh. You got to reach this guy," and just absolutely wild that that connection was able to be made.

[00:05:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Amazing. Another example of The Jordan Harbinger Show saving lives.

[00:05:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yes, you're right. I guess you're right. Indirectly, very indirectly, but I'm just glad the guy's okay. Because when I talked to Daniel Levin, he was like, "These are not good guys." These are like freelance jihadis that probably took him, sold him to somebody else. In the jungle, they kill people regularly. If they get attacked, they're probably just going to kill the hostages and move on. Or the hostages are going to be used as shields. I mean, this wasn't like a highly organized situation where there are professionals involved. It's like they just blocked a train, it was a train heist, but of people—

[00:06:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:06:09] Jordan Harbinger: —in a jungle. It was not—

[00:06:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:06:10] Jordan Harbinger: —a good situation at all. So, yeah. Yikes. Well, Luckily, all's well that ends well, I suppose, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

[00:06:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My husband will do this thing where we'll be on our way to a party. And he'll ask me what I brought for the potluck. I'll be immediately dismayed and panicky because I didn't know it was a potluck. I'll say, "You're kidding, right?" a number of different ways. And he'll just stare at me like he can't believe I forgot. Then finally, he'll start smiling and I'll realize that he is joking. He does this kind of thing regularly. I don't think this is funny, but he gets a kick out of it and pulls little pranks like this all the time. For me, it's really frustrating and stressful, but then he gets his feelings hurt if I seriously tell him, I don't think it's funny. Am I being overly sensitive? How do I get him to stop or do I just need to lighten up? Signed, A Wife in Strife, Trying to Keep It Light Without Reaching for a Knife.

[00:07:09] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. I'm not going to lie. This one did make me laugh a little bit. It's totally messed up. And I get that it gets corny after like the 50th time, but it's also kind of hilarious. It's also funny to me that he pulls this prank or pranks like this all the time, and she still just doesn't know that he's kidding. That probably just makes her really easy target.

[00:07:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: This reminds me of a question we took last year from that guy who couldn't stop hiding in the closet and jumping out and scaring his wife after death. Do you remember that?

[00:07:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yes. I remember that guy and his wife kept asking him to stop scaring the crap out of her and he just didn't want to do it because he's like, "It's too funny," and—

[00:07:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's too funny.

[00:07:43] Jordan Harbinger: —it's so dumb. It was like something your nine-year-old tries to do to you. Yeah. It's her husband.

[00:07:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. Yeah. Because he couldn't like channel his mischief in normal society. So this was his way to be sneaky and he didn't want to give that up. By the way, that was episode $90, if you guys want to give that a listen.

[00:07:56] Jordan Harbinger: So if I remember correctly, our response in that one was that the pranks were probably innocent, but that he should take another look at his motivations for wanting to scare his wife so badly.

[00:08:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep.

[00:08:07] Jordan Harbinger: I would never do that to Jen for example. And also, if it's really upsetting her and she's asking him to stop, he should probably just stop.

[00:08:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Just lay off. She hated it and he wouldn't take it seriously. So we were like, "Listen to your wife, bro."

[00:08:20] Jordan Harbinger: Right. It's interesting. This whole "pranking your partner" thing, I feel like it's guys who mostly do this. Of course on YouTube, it's the couple getting back at each other, but that's all fake, right? We've never heard on this show from a woman who just couldn't stop terrorizing her husband by jumping out of the hamper or whatever. I do wonder if maybe women are more naturally empathetic, so they don't take as much pleasure in messing with other people like that, or I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe we just need a bigger sample size.

[00:08:47] Hey, if you're a woman listening to this and you like to scare the crap out of your partner, drop us an email. We could use the research. We could use the case study.

[00:08:54] Anyway, this letter's interesting because it's the inverse of that other letter from last year. We're actually hearing from the victim's perspective here, not the prankster. And the victim apparently hates it. And to be fair, I get it. You get to a party or you're going to a party thinking all you got to do is show up and your husband's like, "Wait, where's the lasagna you signed up to make. Or that I signed us up to make." And your heart just drops. It's like that dream you have about being back in high school and there's a test and you didn't study for it except it's real life. It's just so stressful. Gabe, do you get those by the way? Mine's either college or getting caught with a brick of cocaine in my luggage at an airport.

[00:09:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I don't get that one at all, but I definitely get the studying one or like trying to find the classroom. And I can't remember which classroom it is or whatever. Yeah, it's hilarious.

[00:09:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:09:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's been like 15 years and I'm still having that dream.

[00:09:38] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. My mom says she has them and she's 80. So it just never goes away. It's like a thing you have when you're stressed about pretty much anything. So look, I said it's kind of funny, but I feel for her too. I don't know. I think you're both right. He's just having a laugh. You're fairly gullible. You aren't catching on. This is the thing he does somehow that makes the prank even funnier, at least for him and joking around with your partner, you know, gently making fun of their weird little foibles. Eh, it's cute. I think it's healthy. It's part of the joy of a relationship, but at the same time, this is clearly very stressful for you. And he just, he doesn't seem to be sensitive to that. And when you try to tell him, it sounds like he takes that very personally and his feelings get hurt, which to me sounds like an overreaction. If you can't take it, don't dish it. If you can't, what— what is it like, "Come on, man. You're going to stress someone out," and they're like, "Hey, that's not funny," you're like, "Waah, my feelings," I mean, come on, you just pulled the joke on somebody. You have to be able to take a little bit back.

[00:10:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And also it's kind of like, he's making it about him again which is maybe what bothers her so much about it.

[00:10:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I think that's a good point. This prank is ultimately designed to give him pleasure at her expense.

[00:10:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:43] Jordan Harbinger: And when she tells him that she doesn't like it, he just pulls the "waah, you hurt my feelings" card. Okay, maybe that hurts your feelings a little bit. "Maybe we could stay with my feelings for a second. I'm the one who had a freaking panic attack on the way to Jill and Steve's anniversary party because of your stupid, like dad joke prank. Can you maybe try and understand what that's like for me?"

[00:11:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. I have a feeling that that's what bothers her the most about this, not just the stress of the prank itself, but the dynamic between them that the prank reflects.,

[00:11:10] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Reflects and maybe even reinforces.

[00:11:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, good point. That's exactly right. And if that dynamic taps into a larger thing in their marriage, like maybe how he doesn't take any of her feelings seriously, or maybe even earlier experiences she has of not being treated the way she wants, then something as simple as a silly prank can suddenly dredge up all of this other stuff that's very painful or hurtful or whatever. So maybe that's what she needs to explain to him, for him to really get it. Why this prank is bothering her so much on a deeper level? What it does say about their relationship? Also, what it makes her feel about the way he views her? That might be how you get him to stop if that's what you want.

[00:11:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's a good point. I definitely think there's more going on beneath the surface here. Otherwise, it just wouldn't be so upsetting, but at the same time, maybe it couldn't hurt to lighten up about this a little bit.

[00:11:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was going to say all of this can be true and she can learn to laugh about it.

[00:12:03] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Like I said, it is in some ways, it's funny, even though I think it's really dumb. That's kind of what makes it funny. And for her sake, I hope she can learn to laugh about it a little because I think that would make it easier to cope with the stress or at least reduce the stress. You know, just remind yourself, "Okay, my husband is a prankster. The jokes are dumb. He likes to mess with me. Maybe let's not freak out if he throws me a curve ball, next time we get in the car." And maybe if he sees that he can't throw you as much, it won't be as fun. And he'll eventually stop pulling this prank on you.

[00:12:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's a possibility or maybe he'll event, even more, diabolical ways to get through her defenses.

[00:12:41] Jordan Harbinger: No, man.

[00:12:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: You know like they're going on a trip and he's like, "Y'all packed for the Alps," and she's like, "What do you mean we're going to Mexico?" "Uh, no we're going skiing in Gotthard. You brought your skis, right?"

[00:12:51] Jordan Harbinger: Ugh, yeah, so corny. Yeah. "You packed an avalanche beacon, right, honey?" The color just drains from her face and she starts crying. I don't know. I mean, put nails on the side of that relationship, every time he pulls one of these. Like I said, I don't do this stuff to Jen because she just rolls her eyes. It's not fun. And then she gets mad. So yeah, the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

[00:13:10] You know who won't ask you to bring anything to the party except your credit card? The amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back.

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[00:15:33] Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. It is your support of our advertisers that keep us going. All the deals, all the discount codes. I know the code changes and there's URLs everywhere. We put them all in one place, one very searchable place, jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the search box on the website as well. Please consider supporting those who support this show.

[00:15:55] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:15:58] All right, Gabe. What's next?

[00:16:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, have you ever given any bad advice to someone or advice that turned out poorly? Are there any episodes you actually regret doing? Signed, Always Right, or 20/20 Hindsight.

[00:16:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Good question. So regret, not really. That's a too strong word. Are there episodes I wouldn't do again? Yes, for sure there are, especially some that may be treated for certain psychological conditions in delicate ways. Definitely some Feedback Friday stuff I think we could have done differently or better. One example that comes to mind. I think this is one of the first Feedback Friday episodes that I ever did. It's probably even before you got on the show, Gabe.

[00:16:39] Somebody had said, "Hey, this person's parked a handicap spot. I see them walk into the store and walk out again. It's driving me crazy." And I was like, "Confront those people if they can walk there or not handicapped." That's a terrible idea for a lot of reasons. I got a lot of emails about that, basically, because you can't always see a disability, you can't see pain. People have good days. They have bad days. The last thing somebody with, I don't know, arthritis needs on one of their good days is some sanctimonious assh*le berating them because their arthritis doesn't seem obvious and they didn't need their cane that morning, but they still didn't want to walk a hundred yards to Target. So the last thing they need is me walking up and being like, "You're fine. You can't park here." I mean, what a Karen move that is.

[00:17:23] Now, if somebody is doing it and you know them and they're not disabled, then you should say something because they're—

[00:17:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: A scumbag story.

[00:17:31] Jordan Harbinger: Right, they're a scumbag for doing that. But if somebody just looks like they shouldn't be, that's just not your place. You have no idea. You should not do that. Their hearts are probably in the right place, but you just shouldn't do that.

[00:17:42] Another interesting challenge with Feedback Friday is how hard it is to get things absolutely right when we're working with only limited information. We often have to take people at their word. We're aware that we're only getting one side of the story. There's always more, we wish we could know about a situation. So sometimes that's a bit tricky.

[00:18:01] We also don't have all the answers, which is why we work with so many experts here on the show. Sometimes we miss something or we don't have the direct experience to be super nuanced or specific about a certain situation. Like, for example, when somebody from a specific community writes in about, I don't know, coming out to their parents or wrestling with their faith or managing a difficult parent within the parameters of that culture, that's something Gabe and I don't have firsthand experience with. And we're always trying to get better at that.

[00:18:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. By the way, that's why I love when listeners write in with their thoughts after certain questionnaires, because they can often speak to something we can't, maybe they've been through this, or they have friends who have been through this. That really helps us. And we forward most of those along anonymously, of course, to the people who write in and then they get to hear from us and two or three other people who have actually been through something similar. And that's amazing. Just one of the many things I love about the show and the people who listen to the show. You guys are so generous with your ideas and you guys care about one another. It's awesome. It's very special.

[00:19:01] Jordan Harbinger: The other constraint we have with advice is that we also have to be careful to operate inside the law. Of course, sometimes I want to tell someone like, "Record every phone call or pose as a head hunter from Google and interrogate your sister's fiance about his employment history." You know, I want to do that stuff. Or like, "Go in there and you pack that guy's stuff while he's not in the apartment and throw it out on the road." You know, of course, I want to do that, but we have to remember there are different recording laws in every state. There's different resident eviction laws. Sometimes, it can be illegal or dicey to pose as somebody else to extract information. You can't, I don't know, open somebody else's mail or crack their Gmail password or whatever it is.

[00:19:39] So we try to be fairly responsible about that stuff too. And I know some people get frustrated. They're like, "You should have said this. You're just trying not to get sued." And it's like, "Well, one, duh. I have a business. You dumb ass. And two, I don't want to get the person who's writing in, in trouble because if I say, 'Go do this,' and they do that, then they're like, 'Wait a minute. I got sued for 20 grand. Now, I'm out the rent and I have to pay for all this guy's stuff. That was terrible advice.'" They're not wrong, right? That was bad advice even if it would've made them feel good and solved the problem in the short term. I don't know, Gabe, any episodes you regret?

[00:20:09] Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't really regret any, but there are a few questions I wish I maybe handled a little more thoughtfully. One that comes to mind is the guy who had lost his faith and wasn't sure how to tell his wife because she was still very committed to Christianity and he thought she would leave him if she knew. And in my response, I think I offered a script that he could use when he told his wife how he felt about God these days. And in that script, I presented a very simplistic Mickey Mouse version of God. I think I said something like, "Well, honey, I don't believe there's an old man with a beard in the sky anymore," something like that, you know, just like trying to articulate this guy's position for him. But I guess it sounded like that's how I felt about religion.

[00:20:52] And afterward we got some emails from pastors and other people who believe who pointed out that Christianity is so much more than that simplistic idea that you know, it's about values and how to treat people and how to move through life and how to deal with grief in this really important way, all this beautiful, important stuff, which was absolutely correct. And I wish I had been more clear about what I was saying. I'm not religious myself in a conventional sense, but I would never want to condescend to somebody who believes in something that I don't or that I don't have experience. Or take something away from them that's helpful just because I don't personally happen to use it in my own life.

[00:21:29] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I'm with you there, but you're getting at another interesting thing about doing this show, which is how some listeners react very strongly to advise we give and how that's not always a reflection of what we meant, or even what we said.

[00:21:41] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm. Yep.

[00:21:42] Jordan Harbinger: And it's always a little bit funny to me because people who tend to get upset about something we said or didn't say, it's never the person who wrote in, it's never them. It's always one or two people who get upset on behalf of other people. And I'm always just amazed when we take a difficult question, especially a question that involves trauma or something sensitive. And we're very honest with the person who wrote in, and then they write an email afterwards, like, "Wow, I really needed to hear that. Thank you. You know, I knew you were right in the back of my head in my mind but you know I have to hear it." Meanwhile, some stranger halfway across the world with no direct experience of the issue whatsoever and no connection to the person writing in is like, "How dare you? You're victim shaming, one star, unsubscribe."

[00:22:26] It's just a funny thing about the Internet, I guess, but it's like we did help the person who wrote in. Some rando who just wants to get offended because they're extra woke that day or their situation, that we weren't even talking about, they got triggered by our answer and now they're mad at us. And I kind of want to be like, "Sit down, and it's amazing, but it's not about you. Go figure, it's not about you. Shut your pie hole," but I can't do that because they've already unsubscribed and given us some one-star review.

[00:22:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's also interesting when we offer advice to listeners that I think lands with them in some way, but they're not quite ready to hear it, or they don't know what to do with it yet. Like for example, a few months back, we took a question, I don't know how much detail to go into because I don't want to — yeah, I want to keep this person somewhat anonymous, but somebody wrote in about something very personal. He was trying to figure out how he felt he had like feelings for other men and he wasn't sure if he was gay or if he was bi. And he was also in a relationship. Anyway, after the episode aired, a bunch of listeners reached out to him, through us with their own stories and their own resources about this exact thing. And they came from the same religious community that he came from and they had to go through the exact same process. And we shared those emails with him. And he sort of wrote back saying, "You know, respectfully, I don't know if I agree with you and these feelings exist, but I'm not gay. I'm convinced of that. And I can't tell my parents and I do believe it's a sin, even if it's legitimate," or something like that.

[00:23:51] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He basically said I successfully prayed the gay away and I don't care what anybody else says even if they're also the exact same situation as me in the exact, same religion.

[00:23:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly. It was almost like hearing it confirmed by so many other people made him clinging to his ideas, even harder.

[00:24:05] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: So that's also tricky, you know like everyone's on their own journey, on their own process and on their own timeline. And that timeline doesn't always line up with what we hope for them. And sometimes our advice can be a little intense or a little threatening to what they already believe or how they want to do things. So that's always a tricky thing, finding the balance between being direct and being honest with people, but also being patient and compassionate when they're not quite ready to make a big change.

[00:24:29] Jordan Harbinger: I think that also happens when people write in and they don't really want advice. They want permission to do something or confirmation that they're right. You know, we didn't really talk about this in our show prep here but I've addressed this before, where people say, "Should I start a clothing line?" And I'm like, "No, it's a terrible idea. You have no experience in the business, da, da, da." And then they get really mad at me for being — they're like, "You shattered my dreams," and I'm like, "Well, you freaking asked me. Oh, wait a minute. You just wanted me to go, yeah, you can do it, which you can't."

[00:24:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:24:53] Jordan Harbinger: "You're 22. Well, you have no experience in any element of clothing manufacturing. You're almost certain to fail. You should have just gotten a different job," but they don't want to hear that, right?

[00:25:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:25:02] Jordan Harbinger: And they don't even want to hear it when it's sugarcoated. And I think a lot of times people will write in and go, "Just tell me that I successfully prayed the gay away and we can still be friends." And we're like, "Actually, you're probably wrong. Here's all these people that have been in the same situation who say that you're going to be happier if you do this other thing." And then that person's like, "Well, actually, now I'm just mad at you." To this guy's credit, he wasn't, he didn't write in and say he was mad at us but other—

[00:25:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:25:21] Jordan Harbinger: —other people in similar situations have done just that.

[00:25:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Definitely. Yep.

[00:25:25] Jordan Harbinger: As far as interviews go, I don't really want to mention specific guests, but there are a few that have given me pause, especially, I don't want to say anything because some of them are dead now. And it's like, "Well that's a dick move. They're not, they can never defend themselves." They're probably not the people you'd think. You know, I've interviewed controversial people, questionable people, some straight-up despicable people, depending on your politics and ethics and all that. But my view is that talking to most of these folks is a net good if they have real and meaningful insights about life or the world. I don't have to agree with them or approve of them or even like them. But if I can learn from them, the show's doing its job.

[00:26:05] I had on Sammy the Bull and him and I are acquaintances. He's definitely killed a bunch of people. Most of them were mobsters. He tries to sort of sugarcoat — I think all of them were mobsters. Maybe there's a few exceptions and people are like, "Why are you glorifying this?" And I'm like, "Hmm, we didn't do that. We did not do that. You're upset about that." These are YouTube comments, by the way. They're meaningless brain-dead people, but I do want to highlight that, that topic's handled delicately. I'm not sitting there being like, "Awesome, bro. You were a mob hit, man."

[00:26:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:26:31] Jordan Harbinger: You know, that's what—

[00:26:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally.

[00:26:32] Jordan Harbinger: —YouTubers do when they interview people. I've seen those types of shows. We are very careful not to do that. And he gave us a lot of insight and one of his chief takeaways was don't join. It's a terrible life. You kill all your friends. It's horrible. You should do literally anything else. I think that's valuable in an age where kids think being a gangster is awesome, cool, tough, blah, blah, blah, snitches get stitches. And it's like, no, they just go to prison and stay there. And their lives are screwed up forever. You know, I think that's an important message.

[00:27:00] Honestly, the episodes I regret are ones that just weren't interesting, weren't valuable. Maybe I got hoodwinked by the guest. My number one priority is making sure the show is a value add for you. I'll do interviews with folks that seem promising. They turn out mediocre. I just don't air them. To me a subpar episode with a, quote-unquote, "top expert" is far worse than an amazing episode with some political operative you hate or no name, first-time author with an incredible story, who's objectively fascinating and understands the laws of power and persuasion or whatever, but, you know, hey, maybe I'll regret this whole answer down the road. So feel free to ask me this question again in a year or two.

[00:27:39] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. If there's something you're going through or you're wrestling with a big decision, maybe you just need a new perspective on — life, love, work. How to tell your friends and family that the love of your life served time in prison? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:28:05] All right, what's next?

[00:28:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I know you've been to some pretty crazy places in your life and even got into some sticky situations as a result. Given the state of the world and what you discuss on the show, are there any countries you're afraid to go to now? Signed, Blocked Up Abroad.

[00:28:23] Jordan Harbinger: Definitely. Gabriel, this has to be true for you, for sure. My list is quite long and getting longer. Off the top of my head — Syria, Iran, China, Belarus, Russia, North Korea. There's probably some places in Africa that are so close to the Chinese Communist Party's intelligence apparatus that I should stay out of them.

[00:28:45] When I'm thinking about going to a new place, I call my friends in intelligence circles, FBI people that also deal with the Chinese Communist Party or Russian state, and I kind of say like, "Am I going to be safe?" They will tell me, "Yes, but not near the border," or, "You'll be fine in this city, but not in that city." And I have to be kind of careful about that stuff. Syria is just a dangerous place. Nobody should go there. Even if you're with an NGO, you better go only under the auspices of that NGO and know what you're doing.

[00:29:15] Iran, kind of the same deal, I can't go there. I mean, I would love to go to Iran. I missed my chance in 2010. I can't go there now too close to China in terms of politics. I've said too many things about Iran. I'm not going to be welcomed by the government there. Iranians are awesome people. I meet a ton of them. I talk to a ton of them there's a lot of Iranian show fans. It's just that I wouldn't be safe in that country with that country's secret service operating in it.

[00:29:39] China, if you've heard this show for the past few months at all, you know, I can probably never go back to, or even fly over China. Belarus and Russia, I've done too much about this and we've seen journalists get their plane escorted down to the ground in Belarus for fake bomb threats. And then the people on there, you know, the journalists down there arrested. Russia, you see Britney Griner? Yeah, maybe she brought some cannabis in there, maybe she didn't. We don't know. There's people languishing in Russian prison for being American. We've seen Canadians get arrested in China because Canada held a Chinese executive who is guilty of sanction busting. I mean, there's just a lot wrong. In North Korea, we've interviewed far too many defectors to be safe now.

[00:30:21] By the way, Bill Browder, the famous Putin critic, the guy who helped architect most of these sanctions on Russia these days, he's been on the show twice now. He won't fly anywhere near any of these places or over Russia or Russia-allied airspace at all because of the Belarus thing that I mentioned. And if you want to know more about Bill's story, it's absolutely amazing, check out episode 3 and episode 680 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:30:46] Gabe, what do you think, man? I mean, I've done episodes on China with Laowhy. We did a two-part interview with him on how the Chinese social credit score system works. That was episode 643 and 644. North Korea though, man. Talk about that. We've opened the door. It's just too risky, but I don't know. Do you have anything to add to that?

[00:31:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: No. I mean, Jordan and I have been a bunch of times between the two of us in North Korea. We've never gotten into any explicit trouble there, but we've pretty much decided that we're not going to go back until there's real regime change if that ever happens in our lifetimes. It's just gotten so intense over the last few years. I mean, just look at the whole Otto Warmbier situation, that young guy who was sent to a labor camp for stealing a poster or something like that. And then he died. It was so freaking. We've written articles. We've done interviews with defectors, like Jordan said, and talked very publicly about the dark sides of North Korea too much now, I just don't think it's worth it.

[00:31:36] But also, Jordan, I feel like North Korea is one of those countries that you just kind of get it after a few visits.

[00:31:42] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: At least for me, my appreciation of that country didn't deepen all that much after the first two or three visits. It's just so controlled and repressive and most places are off limits to foreigners even now. Things don't really change there. It's just so stable and there's a huge barrier between you and the locals. So, yeah, it's just not that interesting after a while, but more importantly, why poke the bear by going back? After trashing Kim Jong-un and interviewing Charles Ryu and his insane story at this point, I don't need to see a labor cap. I'm good.

[00:32:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. But man, when that regime falls and of course, we're all praying that it does, I'm on one of the first flights out, or I should say one of the first—

[00:32:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:32:20] Jordan Harbinger: —tour groups to go back in.

[00:32:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: For sure.

[00:32:22] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe and I are determined to do, I don't know, podcast series or documentary or something like that when the country opens up. But until then, I'll just interview defects from the safety of my studio, where I will not get smothered with poison gas at an airport, freaking pizza joint. Thank you very much.

[00:32:37] Speaking of which, if you want to hear some wild stories from North Korean defenders, check out the two-part episode I did with Charles Ryu that's episode 84 and 88. And we did an episode with Yeonmi Park that was episode 578, and we'll link to those in the show notes as well.

[00:32:53] So yeah, there's plenty of other places we can go. And you know, now that I'm older and I have kids, I'm like, "Nah, I'm good. I'll go to Greece, Spain, Italy."

[00:32:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Let's have a nice time.

[00:33:01] Jordan Harbinger: You know, those places were too expensive for me when I was younger, I was hanging out in Bosnia and stuff, which also is beautiful, by the way. But yeah, I liked going to cheaper places that were a little rough around the edges, because you'd have an adventure and it would be all on 30 bucks a day. Now, I'm like, "No, no, no, no. I will be having breakfast at the hotel, overlooking the ocean. Thank you very much. And the Wi-Fi needs to be rebooted in my room. Thank you. I'll be at the hot tub when you're done." I've lost a lot of my edge, man, a lot, a lot of my edge. I'm still going to Mongolia next year. I'm going to Morocco this year, too. So it's there.

[00:33:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: There's so many good places though—

[00:33:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:33:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: —in the world.

[00:33:36] Jordan Harbinger: There are.

[00:33:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:33:37] Jordan Harbinger: There are. And so we don't have to go to places where we might end up in a Gulag for having a freaking podcast.

[00:33:43] All right. Next up.

[00:33:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe. This past weekend, I went on a trip with a group of friends. One of our friends, let's call him, Joe was heavily intoxicated and making an ass of himself. His wife, let's call her, Jane went down to remove him from the situation and it did not go well. They come back into the house where a few of us are hanging out. They go into the bedroom, they close the door and he starts screaming at her. We hear him yell at her and I quote, "Why are you mad? Your only job in life is to fuck men."

[00:34:15] Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

[00:34:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Whoa, oomph.

[00:34:17] Meanwhile, she's completely silent or calmly talking to him. We're all obviously shocked, disgusted, and appalled. The rest of the night, he continues to tell everyone his wife is a bitch—

[00:34:27] Jordan Harbinger: Pff.

[00:34:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: —and he isn't even drunk at this point.

[00:34:29] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, just no excuse, just a terrible guy. Oh, man.

[00:34:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fast forward a couple of days, and we're back home and wondering what we can do. If anything, we love Jane, but none of us want to be around Joe ever again. We want Jane to know we're here for her and that she's so much more than what her husband said, but neither of them has acknowledged what we heard and they seem fine now. How do I handle the situation moving forward? How can we support Jane while also making it known that we're not okay with Joe's behavior? Signed, Spurred By the Absurd Words I Overheard.

[00:35:04] Jordan Harbinger: Gabe, it's funny. Anytime an email starts with the words, "I recently went on a trip with my friends," or, "I just vacationed with my family" my sphincters all clench up a little bit because—

[00:35:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:35:17] Jordan Harbinger: I'm still thinking about that family that got into a physical altercation. It was like a sandals resort or whatever a couple of months back.

[00:35:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:25] Jordan Harbinger: It's never, "My family and I went to Mexico and it was great. Any tips on face tuning our beach selfies," right? It's always, "My family and I, we went to Mexico and my brother threw a bottle of mezcal at the nanny's face. And now my dad's in a Mexican prison. Help." You all are wilding out on vacation. I'm just saying. You guys are crazy out there.

[00:35:43] But seriously, this one, this is really sad. This one is pretty dark and it is awkward. If I overheard something like this on a group vacation, yeah, I think it would ruin the whole trip. It's hard to enjoy a few cold ones with the boys when one of the boys is screaming at his wife, that her only job is to have sex with men and then banging on about how much he hates her even after the alcohol is worn off. Like, "Whoa, man."

[00:36:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Whoa.

[00:36:07] Jordan Harbinger: "Put it in neutral, Rob. This Airbnb is not the place to hash out your weird-ass anger issues. You know, I came here to do some hiking and play Scrabble without Wi-Fi, not listen to you, reenact your childhood in the living room, man." I'm also puzzled by this comment though, Gabe. Like "Your only job in life was to fuck men." Like, so Joe's being a dick or is she actually a sex worker and that was just left out of the letter?

[00:36:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, I guess it's possible in which case, I suppose he would be factually correct, but I feel like the guy writing in would've mentioned that.

[00:36:38] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I think he would've told us. Yeah.

[00:36:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Not a job or her career choice is just — your guard variety, misogyny.

[00:36:44] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Just some old-fashioned woman-hating. Okay. I got it.

[00:36:47] So look, Joe's obviously got some real issues. He doesn't think very highly of his wife to put it lightly. Sounds like he drinks too much. He's making an ass out of himself in front of everybody. Jane sounds more even-keeled, but honestly, who knows how she's showing up in their marriage, how she's contributing to this dynamic if she's contributing to this dynamic. No one deserves to be insulted like that. And to be frank, yeah, I'm a little worried about her, but they're obviously wrapped up in some very toxic stuff together. Her being super calm with him while he exploded, that might have been her not escalating being thoughtful about you guys, or maybe that's her way of coping with his tirades, managing him when he gets like this, maybe even enabling him on some level. I'm sure they've had many fights before this one. You probably saw just the tip of the iceberg.

[00:37:36] And the fact that neither of them has acknowledged what happened, that they both seem fine now, that just makes things more awkward and more difficult. Maybe they talked it out and resolved it, and it really is all good or maybe they're sweeping this whole thing under the rug and keeping up appearances for you guys, which again, would speak to a highly dysfunctional dynamic between the two of them. But it sounds to me like you've made up your mind here. You're cutting Joe out. You're supporting Jane. Fine, fair enough. I'd probably do the same.

[00:38:07] So, if you want to help her, I would just reach out to her. Maybe you write her an email, maybe you pick up the phone, ask her to have coffee with a couple of you, whatever it is. I would just be careful about how you do that. So you don't set Joe off again. I know that it sucks to manage this, but I'm just imagining what a guy like this is going to think if he hears his wife is having coffee with one of his friends behind his back. Maybe a phone call, when she's alone, is best, or you can grab a few minutes alone with her. The next time you guys are all hanging out. I don't know. However you do it, touch base with her and just say, "You know, I know this is a little uncomfortable. I hope I'm not overstepping here, but we were really concerned about you after our trip last weekend. The guys and I were just not okay with what Joe said to you. And I just wanted to check in on you. Are you all right? Do you want to talk about anything? Are you safe?" Something like that, and then, yeah, just follow her lead from there.

[00:38:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. She might be super relieved to hear you guys confirm that what Joe said wasn't okay. She might jump at the chance to talk to somebody about what's going on in the marriage. And then, you can have a real conversation about exactly what is happening, why she's sticking around, whether she actually needs help. And you can tell her what you told us, which is that you want her to know that she's so much more than what her husband said. That would probably make a big impact on her.

[00:39:21] But then again, you have to be prepared for the possibility that Jane will clam up or deflect. You know, she might be like, "What? That, that was nothing, you know, Rob gets in these moods. It's just a thing he does, you know, I'm used to it. We're fine now." And then you have to decide how much you want to keep pushing it. Maybe you give it one more try, like, "Okay, I hear that you don't want to talk about it. I respect that, but I just want to go on record and say that I'm worried about you. I don't think any of this is okay, and I'm here if you ever want to talk," and then maybe down the road, that becomes a lifeline for her when things really get bad or you let it go. And you just accept that Jane is in her own process right now. Maybe she's not ready to stand up to Joe. Maybe she doesn't even recognize that this is a form of what sounds like emotional abuse, or maybe they really are working on it. And you just have to let her figure that out for herself.

[00:40:12] It's kind of funny, Jordan. Going back to what we talked about earlier about—

[00:40:15] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: —listeners being on their own timeline. You know, my only caveat is that if you ever feel like she's in serious physical danger, like if Joe is hitting her or putting her life at risk or something, then you should probably escalate this even more. Maybe you and the guys intervene or you call the police. And I know that emotional abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse, maybe even more damaging in some ways, but it's complicated. You have to balance your concern with her, with a fair respect for her choices, as problematic as they might be.

[00:40:46] Jordan Harbinger: Bottom line though. I think you're probably right to distance yourself from this guy. He sounds like a troubled dude, not to mention a huge buzz kill. This is not the guy I want in my Airbnb or around my campfire or in my camper with me and my wife. Just harshing the vibe with this like weird incel logic. Unless he apologizes to Jane and to you guys and shows a real commitment to working on this stuff, yeah, he's just not somebody you want to keep close. And as for Jane, I hope she accepts your offer to talk. I hope she learns to stand up for herself or even better just to leave. But as we talk about all the time on the show, that is ultimately her business, all you can do is be a good friend to her as she figures this out on her own.

[00:41:27] So I hope you get through to her. I hope she's all right, and we're sending you both good thoughts.

[00:41:33] Gabe, that was definitely one in the WTF category. I hope — maybe the next one's a little more humorous, please.

[00:41:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: I will do my best.

[00:41:40] Jordan Harbinger: All right, what's next?

[00:41:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan. Great show but can you please stop saying the word doozy? Signed, Woozy From the Doozy?

[00:41:52] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Gabe, this question. It's a real—

[00:41:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Don't say it. Are you going to say it?

[00:41:57] Jordan Harbinger: It's a real conundrum.

[00:41:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, okay.

[00:41:59] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, it's a doozy. Yeah, this guy's—

[00:42:01] Gabriel Mizrahi: This guy's head just exploded.

[00:42:02] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. I hope so. I hope it did. The question, honestly, made me laugh. I didn't even realize that I say the word doozy that often. Look, it's at the top of the episode, but I think I say we've got some fun ones and some doozies and I can't wait to dive in a lot. Yeah, okay, maybe that's what he's referring to. I don't know what to tell you, man. We do be getting a lot of doozies on the show, but I'm open to other words if it bothers you so much, but nothing's really coming to mind.

[00:42:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Umm. Humdingers.

[00:42:27] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, yeah, if we're doing this podcast in 1925, that would be perfect.

[00:42:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: How about crackerjack?

[00:42:33] Jordan Harbinger: Also very old-timey and some maybe vaguely racist somehow, not sure. I can't put my finger on it.

[00:42:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Whopper?

[00:42:40] Jordan Harbinger: Uh, we've got some fun ones and some whoppers and I can't wait to dive in. I don't know. It sounds like a lie or that I'm ordering something at Burger King. You're making me hungry.

[00:42:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay. How about lulu?

[00:42:50] Jordan Harbinger: Lulu? Never heard of that one. Are you sitting there on thesaurus.com or something right now?

[00:42:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I am. I am. I'm on thesaurus.com—

[00:42:56] Jordan Harbinger: Because lulu—

[00:42:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: —as we speak.

[00:42:57] Jordan Harbinger: Lulu's not something you would even naturally come up with vocabulary even like as you, you wouldn't have said that. I'm not saying—

[00:43:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: No.

[00:43:04] Jordan Harbinger: —humdinger. I'm not saying whopper. I'm definitely not saying, "We got some real lulus this week." So I guess you're just going to have to live with doozy although watch, humdinger is totally going to catch on and people are going to start saying that in the emails and then we got to use it. This guy will be happy though. Sorry about your woos from the dooz, bruh, but I think doozy is here to stay.

[00:43:24] You know whose products are always crackerjack, Gabriel?

[00:43:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: The amazing sponsors who support this show.

[00:43:30] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. We'll be right back.

[00:43:35] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help online therapy. Going through a rough time? I have been there. And no matter how big or small of a situation, I've always sought the help of a therapist to help me navigate through them. I shouldn't say always. Before I used to just tough it out. It sucked. It was not worth it. Don't do that. If you're on the fence, take this as a sign to try it out and prioritize your sanity, your mental health. All of Better Help's therapists are licensed professional therapists. They take privacy very seriously. So you can even be anonymous if you want to. You don't have to leave the house to talk to a Better Help therapist with gas prices what they are now, that alone will save you a ton of money. Connect by video, phone, even text or chat your therapist at any time. There's even a journal in there you can write in and submit those to your therapist if you want to share stuff. I think it's helpful just to have a judgment-free zone. Plus way more affordable than in-person therapy. You get matched quickly and they want to make sure you find a therapist you really click with. So you can always switch at no additional charge.

[00:44:28] Jen Harbinger: And our listeners get 10 percent off your first month at betterhelp.com/jordan. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:44:37] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Progressive insurance. Let's face it. Sometimes multitasking can be overwhelming. Like when your favorite podcast is playing, the person next to you is talking and your car fan is blasting, all while you're trying to find the perfect parking spot. But then again, sometimes multitasking is easy, like quoting with Progressive insurance. They do the hard work of comparing rates. So you can find a great rate that works for you, even if it's not with them. Give their comparison tool a try, and you might just find getting the rate and coverage you deserve is easy. All you need to do is visit Progressive's website to get a quote with all the coverage you want, like comprehensive and collision coverage or personal injury protection. Then you'll see Progressive's direct rate and their tool will provide options from other companies all lined up and ready to compare. So it's simple to choose the rate and coverages you. Press play on comparing auto rates at progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive.

[00:45:26] Jen Harbinger: Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Comparison rates, not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[00:45:34] Jordan Harbinger: Thanks for listening and supporting the show. I really appreciate that. Of course, your attention and your support of our advertisers. That's what keeps us going around here. If you want the codes, all the URLs, we put them all in one place. It's usually slash Jordan but not always. And you'll find out at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also, if you're extra lazy, you can email me. I'll find the code for you. You can check our support, you can search the search box on the website for the code. Please do consider supporting those who support this show.

[00:46:03] All right, back to Feedback Friday.

[00:46:07] Okay, what's next?

[00:46:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan, it seems every day, something new comes out about how a product that we use is harmful for you or for the environment or to someone else in the production of it. Endocrine disruptors and fragrant soap, microplastics and seemingly every type of food container, all the harmful things in toothpaste. Shout out to that Skeptical Sunday episode you did. Plus the manufacturing of things that are made from slave labor and wanting to support American economies, or at least not countries with a dictator in power, but with inflation, the way it is, it's becoming tougher and tougher to purchase things that don't have a sinister manufacturing process or effect on the human body. How do you decide what to focus on changing for you and your family? Signed, Looking for a Diatribe on How to Circumscribe the Stuff We Imbibe.

[00:46:56] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, well, the short answer is that it is tough. It is definitely one of the hard parts about modern living. It's just impossible to control every variable and you could easily torture yourself trying to avoid every toxic thing out there, even though that's probably what we should be doing. So I don't know if I have a perfect answer here.

[00:47:15] Here are a few thoughts. After our episode with Dr. Shanna Swan, friends told me they were cleaning out their home, because they wanted to have kids and they had all these endocrine-disrupting chemicals all over their house and they were having trouble conceiving. So they wanted to take that out of the equation. I try not to buy harmful stuff, but I don't go through my closets and toss three bottles of body wash that I bought because maybe it has phthalates in it. I just figure, okay, I'm going to use that eventually. I'll put it in the guest bathroom. Gabriel will use it when he is here. Fine, not my problem.

[00:47:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: That was too real, man.

[00:47:49] Jordan Harbinger: I buy stuff at farmer's markets, which is healthier, I think, and often the same price or not that much more expensive. Check out episode 713, that's Marion Nestle. It's all about how food companies lie to us. They sponsor research on nutrition. They get us to put things in our body that are just are not necessarily good for us and might even be bad for us, or just don't do anything other than regular ass food. Plus, I mentioned earlier, Dr. Shanna Swan, that's episode 658. That was specifically about endocrine-disrupting chemicals in things that we put on our body, cosmetics and things like that. So just be aware of it, try and buy things that don't have it on there, but I don't think you need to go through and dump a hundred pounds of plastic into a landfill from you and your entire family's house because of the stuff you've been using for the last 10 years is still in a container. Just switch to something better next time you make the purchase. And I think that's where we make the big changes.

[00:48:40] All right. What's next?

[00:48:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan, you interview so many fascinating people each week. Are there any guests on the show your homies with to this day because you just clicked and how do those friendships develop? Signed, Looking for a Lens on Your Friends.

[00:48:56] Jordan Harbinger: Well, I am actually friends with a lot of guests from the show sometimes before they come on the show. And to clarify, it's not because I wanted to be friends with the guest from the beginning that actually leads to terrible interviews. If you want to hear a great example of a terrible interview, well, go find any influencer who has a podcast that interviews celebrities, but is always on TikTok and Instagram. All that is, is an influencer stroking that celebrity or that big name so that that celebrity will promote the episode on their social media and get them more likes. It's bad interviewing. It's pretty cringe. It's fairly transparent. Usually, those people don't add much, you know, it's, "Whoa, bro," every time the guest says something. You know the shows I'm talking about.

[00:49:40] Recent guests, I'm friends with in real life, Peter Santenello, Laowhy who talked about the social credit score system; Robert Green, the author; Benjamin Hardy, the psychologist; Chris Voss, the hostage negotiator; Vanessa Van Edwards, the body language expert; Danny Gold who's a journalist and talked about the underworld stuff. That guy's really interesting. Dr. Rachel Zoffness is real cool, the pain doctor. Daniel Levin, among other things, hostage negotiator who helped get my friend's cousin out of Nigeria, out of a jungle in Nigeria, where he was being held. Josh Peck — I mean, that's just off the top of my head. If I go way back, there's a ton.

[00:50:17] Those friendships often develop because we met on the show or with the idea of doing a show and usually they're like, "Wow, that was a good interview." I was better than I expected. And often that we'll keep in touch, right? Because they'll stay in touch to talk about podcasting or follow-up interviews. Or they have a question and I often help people and I don't expect things in return. So people will ask me questions. And I often try to be generous with my time, especially with a show guest, because they were generous with theirs as well. This is all sort of Six-Minute Networking stuff at work. Check out jordanharbinger.com/course, Six-Minute Networking is our networking course. It's free. This is where I explain all these principles.

[00:50:54] But yeah, a lot of the folks that I meet through the show are friends before or after the show, usually after. And I think it's because they've done bajillion podcasts and then — you know I have you guys to thank too because they get a ton of engagement and DMs and messages from people that found them through The Jordan Harbinger Show. And they're like, "Wow, this is a really special audience," because it's not like a media hit where they do a 15-minute show, the journalist hasn't read the book and they see one tweet that's shaming them about their NPR appearance. You know, it's a real interview.

[00:51:22] So that's what I'd like to think makes the difference. And I have you all to thank for that.

[00:51:28] Hope you enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everybody, of course, who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Dr. John Abramson and Sebastian Junger if you haven't yet.

[00:51:38] If you want to know how I managed to book these folks, well, go back to that Six-Minute Networking course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty, it's all free on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course.

[00:51:50] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please support the show if you can. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I do like to hear from you. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi.

[00:52:14] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I'm a lawyer. I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:52:49] I've got some thoughts on this episode, but before I get into that, here's what you can check out next on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:52:57] You're in Somalia trying to track down pirate gangs, and I love to kind of hear what this felt like.

[00:53:03] Michael Scott Moore: We went with the big security team and we paid the security team and a lot of money. And it was this one portion of a clan in Central Somalia that was supposed to protect us.

[00:53:14] Jordan Harbinger: So how did they get you?

[00:53:16] Michael Scott Moore: My partner Ashwin flew off to Mogadishu. I drove him to the airport and then we saw him off. He got on the plane safely. And then on the way back from the airport, back into town towards our hotel, there was actually a truck waiting for us. It was a truck with a cannon welded in the back. These are very common trucks. They're called technicals. At first, we thought it was there to watch over us or protect us or something, but actually it stopped our car. And 12 gunmen from the flatbed came over to my side of the car and they actually fired in the air and then opened the door and tore me out of the car.

[00:53:47] They were waiting for me and they were probably waiting or hoping for both of us. I think they were a little bit disappointed that there was only one journalist. They beat me, they broke my glasses and I was wearing glasses at the time and they had another car waiting and they bundled me into it and off we drove into the bush. For about three hours, something like that, hard to keep track of time, but at some point, we stopped. They blindfolded me and they took me a few steps over to a mattress. So there was a mattress waiting for me in the middle of nowhere. Um, there were other people there, other guards and other hostages, and I sat down. For the next two years and eight months, I was a hostage.

[00:54:24] Jordan Harbinger: For more on life and captivity under the thumb of Somali pirates and how he made it out, check out episode 115 with Michael Scott Moore here on The Jordan Harbinger Show.