708: Familiarizing Family with Your Felonious Fella | Feedback Friday

708: Familiarizing Family with Your Felonious Fella | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the stick of palo santo clearing the negative energy from this house of drama, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening even inside your own mind.

[00:00:39] If you're new to the show, on Fridays, we give advice, we answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of incredible people from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week, we had Tessa West on jerks at work and the archetypes of people who make our office lives miserable and what we can do about them. We also spoke with Johann Hari on focus, how our attention span has dwindled over the years and how we might mitigate the damage.

[00:01:08] I also write every so often on the blog, my latest post, the dangers of toxic positivity and how to avoid it. This is another one of my pet peeves, the whole radical positivity mindset, how it messes with our ability to see the world and ourselves clearly. In this piece, I talk about the dangerous effects of toxic positivity, how to develop a healthier relationship with the difficult parts of life and how to cultivate a brand of positivity that's actually grounded, healthy, and productive. And you can find that article and all of our articles at jordanharbinger.com/articles. So make sure you've had a look and a listen to everything that we created for you here this week.

[00:01:45] Last week, we had a lot of housekeeping and we started with your sort of wild neighbor story. In a change of pace this week, let's just go right to the questions. Let's go straight to the mailbag.

[00:01:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Let's do it.

[00:01:55] Hey Jordan and Gabe, you know the saying that you should date outside your type? Well, I did. And I've met the love of my life.

[00:02:03] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm a 38-year-old woman dating the sweetest, kindest, and most supportive 48-year-old man. We met through work and have shared interests, values, and a vision for our future. I can't wait to introduce him to my family and friends, but I'm not sure how to, because of his criminal past.

[00:02:21] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[00:02:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: Several years ago, he was charged in a federal drug case and spent five years in prison. I've read the indictment and talked to him about it at length. And his involvement comes down to an overzealous DA. He was charged with conspiracy but passed lie detector. He even turned down a plea deal, which would've negated all the charges because he comes from the no-snitching mindset.

[00:02:43] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[00:02:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Meanwhile, I'm a square who's never even gotten a parking ticket. I don't want my friends and family to stereotype my boyfriend, but omission isn't really an option. When you google him, the indictment comes up because it was a high-profile case. So how and when do I tell my loved ones all of this? Signed, Sweating, My Sweet Suitor.

[00:03:05] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh, this is an interesting one. As you guys might know, I'm a big believer in rehabilitation for prisoners. I've led career workshops in prison. We went to a maximum security prison for my 40th birthday, and I brought 72 listeners with me. That was incredible. We've shared advice with a few former inmates on this show as well. I obviously believe in second chances for reformed criminals. A lot of the guys that get out, do great things. They have great ideas. They made some seriously bad choices. I mean, imagine if your life was defined by the worst thing you ever did.

[00:03:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:03:39] Jordan Harbinger: And that's the situation that a lot of these people are in. So this is a sore spot for me, you know, our criminal justice system and for a lot of people.

[00:03:46] Your boyfriend, it's not totally clear if he was completely innocent and just got caught up in his case somehow, or if he played some role in it, but either way, he did his time. He has a legit career now. He sounds like a decent person. And now you need to figure out how to integrate him into the rest of your life, which let's just acknowledge that's tricky. So I think you have a few moves here. The first move is introduce your boyfriend to your friends and family, but you don't tell them about his past right away. They get to know him without the baggage. He gets to make a good impression.

[00:04:17] Then, later on, you break the news to them once they're already on board. That way his background isn't informing everyone's first impression. And it's more of a wrinkle to his story than a straight-up obstacle to them, even being willing to give him a chance in the first. You could even take that a step further and never bring up his past. And maybe your friends and family never know, although yeah, it's possible they won't google him or that they won't google him for a while. And it's just a non-issue as far as they're concerned. I think that's risky and could work against you. It is an option. It's also not a lot of people's business. I'd say it's your family's business, but everybody else, you know, go fly kit.

[00:04:54] The upside to these first two options, probably easier, at least in the short term. The downside, maybe if you feel like you're misleading your friends and family, you might feel manipulative and stressed out. Maybe you're setting yourselves up for more problems down the road if/when people do find out, then it'll look like you were hiding the ball and that could create an even bigger problem for you and for him, for that matter.

[00:05:16] Third option, you just tell everyone straight away and you help them wrap their heads around this. Maybe you say something like, "So guys, I have some news, it might be surprising, but I want you to keep an open mind. And I want you to know I've given this a lot of thought. I met this guy at work. He's wonderful. We like the same things. We believe in the same things. We want to build a life together. He's my guy. I'm really excited for y'all to get to know him. The thing is years ago, he made a huge mistake. He got caught up with some bad people. He ended up serving some time in prison. I know, crazy, I was pretty shocked too, but I've read the indictment. I've looked at the evidence. I'm convinced he didn't do anything seriously wrong, maybe anything wrong. He lives a totally different life now. He's not involved in crime at all. He has a job. He wants a conventional life. He's a solid person. I want you to meet him. So I just wanted you to know the full story. When you guys meet, I know you'll see what I see in him, but I'm asking you to give him a chance and not hold his past against him." Something like that. And then you can answer their questions. I'm sure they're going to have some questions.

[00:06:17] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:18] Jordan Harbinger: And go into more detail about his case, what you learned, all of that stuff if they ask. That might actually be the best way to handle it, because A, it gets all of it out in the open from the jump, and B, it signals to your friends and family that you're not hiding anything. You're not crazy. You're not diluted. You know what you're doing and you're asking them to give this guy a chance. I'll refrain from saying what I would do until the end. Gabe, what do you think?

[00:06:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, I'm curious to know how you would handle that.

[00:06:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

[00:06:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, okay, first of all, I think that's great advice. My only caveat is that you should be absolutely sure that your boyfriend really is on the up and up and that he's truly living a different life now. And that his criminal history just does not reflect who he is now or show up in other parts of his life somehow, because you don't want to go to bat for somebody whose character you don't fully know, and you don't fully believe in. But it doesn't sound like that's the case. I think you would've mentioned that. It sounds like he really is a different guy and you know him and you love him. I also think Jordan that her boyfriend will play a big role in how the family responds to him and to all of this news.

[00:07:19] Like if she invites him to Mother's Day or whatever, and he just sits in the corner, you know, avoiding eye contact and giving one-word answers to people, they might understandably think he's hiding something or they might just find him really hard to connect with. But if he's friendly and he's open and he's engaging, and also if he's willing to talk about his past when the time is right, that's going to make a very different impression. So I would also strategize with your boyfriend about how to handle those first few interactions with your friends and with your family.

[00:07:47] You know, like what I'm wondering is, is he willing to talk about his case with them? You know, will he be able to handle their curiosity, maybe even their skepticism and not be totally thrown by it? How is he going to respond if your mom or your dad is like, "So Doug, you know, you slaying yayo across state lines for 10 years and you didn't take a plea deal, huh? Like what were you thinking? And also, are you still involved in that stuff?" These are all very normal questions that I'm sure her family is going to ask. Her friends might not ask him to his face, but they will ask her, like, "Are you sure about this guy?" The more he handles all of that in stride, the more he can open up about this chapter of his life and explain how he's changed and that'll make it a lot easier for mom and dad and Aunt Louise to accept him and not be freaked out that there's an ex-con at the Thanksgiving dinner table.

[00:08:35] It's a lot harder to judge somebody who's transparent and self-aware, especially if they're able to talk about the difficult stuff in their backstory, maybe even have a laugh about it and be able to talk about it without too much sensitivity and shame. I think that's just going to change the entire tone of this hangout.

[00:08:49] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that makes sense. I agree with you there. Like if he tells them the whole story of what happened without being ashamed or self-conscious, they'll probably see him as the guy he is now.

[00:08:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:08:58] Jordan Harbinger: His self-acceptance will help secure their acceptance.

[00:09:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes.

[00:09:02] Jordan Harbinger: But if he's shifty and nervous and he is being kind of vague and he is leaving out a lot of the details or he tries to change the subject and he is avoiding eye contact, they're going to pick up on those cues. And they'll be thinking, "Okay, I don't trust this guy, not in our family—"

[00:09:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:09:15] Jordan Harbinger: "—this is a mistake." So I'm with you there, Gabe, I think he should be prepared to tell his story the right way. In fact, we work on that a lot with the inmates during these career programs, because when you got a four-year or 10-year resume gap, and someone says, "What were you doing from 2014 to 2019?" And they go, "Ooh, uh, well," and it's like — you have to be like, "I was incarcerated, and here's what happened? Do you want to hear the story?"

[00:09:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure.

[00:09:40] Jordan Harbinger: And often the employer will go, "Yeah." And then they say, "Here's this thing that happened," and then they go, "Oh, okay." So I'm not filling in the blanks with my worst-case scenario imagination about why you were gone.

[00:09:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:09:52] Jordan Harbinger: And then why you were in the clink.

[00:09:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:09:53] Jordan Harbinger: It's far easier to understand that somebody was born into a situation gang warfare, got shot, shot somebody else then because if you fill it in, you're just thinking, this person's a serial killer and now they're applying at my place of employment.

[00:10:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. Yeah.

[00:10:06] Jordan Harbinger: Right. So you, you do have to put a lot of that stuff upfront.

[00:10:09] After that it's your friends and family's choice about whether to accept him. And hey, it's possible that some do and some don't it's even possible that none of them do. I hope that's not the case because it sounds like all of this is very much behind him, but you can't control everyone's reaction to your boyfriend. It might take them a few months to come around. Maybe they just need to see that you're happy with him before they really let him. And there might always be some people who never get on board at all. And then you have to decide how to handle those folks. Whether you accept their disapproval or you try to convince them, or you just stay away from those people.

[00:10:45] And sadly that comes with the territory in a case like this, but the good news is you don't need all those people's approval to be happy. You just need to own this part of your life in a way that feels right to you and your boyfriend. So I hope you get to do that. I hope your friends and family keep an open mind. I hope your boyfriend is doing well now. And we're sending you both good thoughts.

[00:11:06] You know, you asked what I would do. I probably would let them meet him first a little bit.

[00:11:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:11] Jordan Harbinger: Like, even if it's just a weekend barbecue and they're like, "Yeah, he seems great."

[00:11:14] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:11:14] Jordan Harbinger: And then, maybe one or two more sorts of small things, but then definitely if you're like going to invite them over for Christmas, you should probably say something because what you don't want is, "That guy was in my house for the holidays and you didn't tell me."

[00:11:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:11:29] Jordan Harbinger: "And we couldn't make a decision — we don't trust your judgment now."

[00:11:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: "You lied to me for three months, six months, or whatever."

[00:11:34] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:11:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. That's actually a good way to kind of split the difference on those options.

[00:11:37] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:11:37] Gabriel Mizrahi: One, hang out, maybe two, and then once they get to fall in love with them without the baggage, then you say, "Okay, so now I want to tell you something."

[00:11:43] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Like, the exposure they have to him initially might be the difference between, "We don't want this guy anywhere near the family," and, "Well, everyone deserves a second chance. He seems sweet to me. And I've spent six hours with the guy."

[00:11:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:11:55] Jordan Harbinger: You know, he seems great.

[00:11:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right, right. It's like, how do you introduce this boyfriend to the family in a way that gives him the best possible shot without creating a huge lie that the family then has to get over?

[00:12:05] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:12:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: And everyone's upset about it. It's like there's a fine line between those two.

[00:12:08] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, it is. I don't envy them in this situation, but I do think it's manageable.

[00:12:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Agreed.

[00:12:14] Jordan Harbinger: You know what you can always bring home to mama? The amazing products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:12:22] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help online therapy. I invest in myself by hiring a trainer four days a week. Gabriel and I have voice coaching once a week. I keep up with regular checkups at the doctors. I got Chinese teachers online from China. As I often remind you, taking care of your mental health is just as important. Actually, it's more important. You are your greatest asset, so invest the time and effort into yourself. And that includes your sanity, people. Better Help is online therapy that offers video, phone, even live chat sessions with a licensed professional therapist in the comfort of your own home or your car if you're doing it on your lunch. Rather than waiting weeks to get booked with a therapist, get matched with a Better Help therapist in under 48 hours.

[00:13:02] Jen Harbinger: When I signed up, I got matched with a therapist in under 20 minutes and I'm still with Doreen. She's great, but I love that if I didn't click with her, I could just switch therapists. There's no additional charge. There's also a really helpful journal feature. So I can put notes in there to remind myself what I want to discuss.

[00:13:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, we'd love Better Help. Definitely give it a shot. Our listeners get 10 percent off their first month at betterhelp.com/jordan. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com/jordan.

[00:13:28] This episode is sponsored in part by Going West podcast. Whether you're looking for a new true-crime podcast that is minimal side talk, you know what I'm talking about, or one that focuses on the victim and their story, you have to check out Going West. Going West is a true-crime podcast, hosted by Portland, Oregon, couple Daphne and Heath. And in each episode, they dive into various US-based disappearance and murder cases. And there's no shortage of those. Whether it's the bizarre stalking story of Dorothy Jane Scott, who's a young mother who received harassing phone calls before she went missing from a hospital parking lot in 19-freaking-80, the tragic 1993 murder of young Alaska, native student, Sophie Sergie, which was finally solved in 2022, unbelievable. Or even the recent disappearance of Maya Millete, whose husband paid, wait for it, spellcasters — yes, spellcasters — to seriously injure his wife. Anyway, Going West has you covered for all the weirdness there. And with twice-weekly episodes, which show up every Tuesday and Friday, you're never going to run out of content. Check out Going West, true crime, wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:14:24] Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. And of course, the advertisers who keep us going, all the deals, discount codes, everything you need to help support the show is over on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. There's a search box there. You can also go to jordanharbinger.com and search for any sponsor using the search box right there on the website. It will help you find the code. And look if you're too lazy, shoot me an email and I'll find it for you. Please consider supporting those who support this show.

[00:14:51] Now back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up.

[00:14:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm in my late 30s. And for the last 10 years, I've been working as a booking agent in the concert and touring industry. After going through two of the roughest years imaginable for our business, I've ended up in a senior-level position in my small company, both through my own hard work and also through staff turnover. Our company as a whole has emerged stronger than ever as well and seems to be scaling up right now. Recently, the owner and founder of my company made it clear to me that he wants to start the process of turning over the operations of the company to me and make me his heir apparent. My boss has been in our business for almost three decades and is starting to think about retirement in the next five or so years. I'm incredibly proud of my career and I feel I'm good at what I do, but the idea of leading an entire company in a highly competitive industry like mine is quite overwhelming. I have very little experience managing staff, overseeing business operations, like accounting and payroll, hiring and firing employees, and all of that. I've only ever been a salesman or an agent since I graduated college. What can I do today to start learning the ins and outs of running a small business? Should I seek out graduate classes in business or pursue an MBA? How can I sharpen my leadership and entrepreneurial skills so that I can successfully lead the next phase of my company? Signed, The Self-Grooming Prince.

[00:16:18] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is exciting, man. I agree with you. You should be proud. I don't think the founder of your company would be asking you to take over if he didn't think you had what it takes to succeed. Nobody wants to — look it's his company.

[00:16:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:16:30] Jordan Harbinger: I'm sure he wants to leave it in good hands. I don't think he's going to go, "Ugh, he's not going to dump this guy off on."

[00:16:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: He's got his work cut out for him. Totally.

[00:16:35] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Yeah. Look, you're great at what you do as a booking agent. You've learned a lot. There's tons of opportunity ahead. I think you're probably more equipped than you think. What was that? I know we've dealt with this kind of thing before. What was that? There was a phrase here that really clicks. It was something along the lines of, and I'm paraphrasing, "You're actually not that qualified to know whether you're qualified for this role. Your boss is the guy who's qualified."

[00:16:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, good point.

[00:16:59] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:16:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I think it's sort of like one of the antidotes to imposter syndrome.

[00:17:02] Jordan Harbinger: Right.

[00:17:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:17:03] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You don't know if you're prepared because you don't know what to look for. The guy who picked you for this role knows what to look for.

[00:17:08] Gabriel Mizrahi: He knows, right, yeah.

[00:17:09] Jordan Harbinger: And he picked you for it. That's the point.

[00:17:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:17:11] Jordan Harbinger: So it doesn't mean you don't have a ton to learn. So here are my thoughts. First of all, you said it yourself, you have five to 10 years to learn what you need to know. That is a long ass time. Okay, that's plenty of time. It's awesome. You have that runway. You have the luxury of slowly accumulating knowledge and leveling up. You don't need to learn how to be the CEO by Christmas. You can take your time.

[00:17:33] Now about going to grad school or doing an MBA that could be useful. It might give you a little dose of confidence, like, "Wow. Alright. I got an MBA. I must know what I'm doing now," but honestly, given your background and your industry, you almost certainly don't need it. In all likelihood, you'd take a handful of classes that directly apply to what you'll be doing. And the rest are going to be either interestingly nice-to-haves but not essential or they're going to be stuff you can learn on your own if you really want to or even stuff that's a complete waste of time. Because remember an MBA, from most schools, is just going to train you in some general business skills that you probably don't frankly really need given your position right now.

[00:18:11] Now, if there are very specific skills you want to develop and you need a class to learn them, like, I don't know, corporate finance or accounting, business analytics, contract law, something like that. Then yeah, I would recommend taking those courses a la carte. You can probably do them at a local university, even online. In fact, some of the top B schools are offering courses on-demand online now, which is pretty cool. It's more targeted. Since no one's expecting you to get an MBA to get ahead, you'd probably get a much higher ROI, return on your investment, by taking the two or three classes you absolutely need and spending a fraction of the cost of an MBA. Plus you're not giving up two or even three years of your life and your income.

[00:18:51] But the best education in my book, especially in your situation, is to learn on your own. So my approach would be to start carving out a few hours every week to informally shadow people in your company and maybe even outside your company and start learning from them. So let's say one of your blind spots is finance and accounting, go spend 30 minutes every week with your CFO or your accounting person or your payroll team, or hop on the phone with them if you guys outsource that stuff. Tell them that you'd love to learn more about what they do. Ask them what processes they use, what music industry-specific nuances apply to their jobs, how reporting laws are changing and affecting the business, that sort of thing. Ditto for HR, ditto, finance, ditto operations, learn how to talk to these folks, how to manage them, what kinds of questions and issues the head of this company needs to know how to handle. And that's really the most important thing, knowing enough to be a good leader.

[00:19:47] On top of that, I definitely recommend doing some independent study. I'd be getting through a great book every few weeks. Find the top, I don't know, 50 books on business ever written the best ones. Look for books and essays written about the music industry. Plow through those. I'd also watch talks and listen to podcasts by experts and top performers in your field. And as you read, watch, listen, take some brief notes in a Google Doc or Evernote or whatever, review them from time to time, share the best parts with your colleagues and peers so they can learn too. And that can be your mini MBA.

[00:20:19] I would also ask the founder of your company. If you can start sitting in on meetings with him, attending phone calls with important clients, shadowing him during important decisions, getting a real feel for the role. If he's going to groom you to be his heir apparent, he should be doing this anyway, but maybe he didn't think of it, or maybe he doesn't think you have time. I would directly ask him straight up, "What do I need to know to be a great leader here? What would you be doing if you were me?" and then incorporate his advice into your plan.

[00:20:47] The other crucial thing I'd be doing is building your relationships. You've heard me talk about this many times before on this show. Since you have five, 10 years to make this transition, I'd make it a real priority to meet all the people you want to know before you take over. People who have your role at other agencies, folks who work at the touring companies, at the record labels, at music management companies, producers, engineers, other talents. Those could all be your friends, mentors, colleagues, experts, future clients. They could be the people you pick up the phone and call in 10 years when you have a problem, you just don't know how to solve, or you need an introduction or you need some advice. You know what I'm about to say, dig the well before you get thirsty. And if you need some help there, definitely check out our Six-Minute Networking course. It's free jordanharbinger.com/course. That's going to be a great resource for you.

[00:21:41] My last thought is to start taking on pieces of your future role starting now and just slowly step up. So, if you're learning how to lead, I'd start initiating new projects now and learn how to lead a team, how to handle your colleagues, how to manage problems or conflicts. I'm not super familiar with your field. But let's say you want to learn how to increase business and expand your footprint, maybe you grab two or three of your colleagues. You form a little task force and you set a goal of generating X dollars in new revenue. You guys spend a few months developing relationships with new venues. You start scouting talent in new genres and territories. You guys divide the work and you lead the charge. You share all this with your boss, you get his input, ask him how he would guide the project. That's how you'll actually up your leadership and entrepreneurial skills just doing that is a hundred times more valuable than an MBA. I promise you.

[00:22:39] Oh, and once you're actually in your CEO seat, remember you can always hire an EA and a COO to help take the load off. That's an executive assistant and a chief operations officer. They'll help take the load off. They'll do some of the things you're maybe not as talented at doing. You'll have to know those jobs as well, of course, but you won't also have to do those jobs as well. Delegating is a crucial skill, especially if you're a CEO.

[00:23:04] We've also done a bunch of episodes and articles that would be really helpful for you right now from dealing with imposter syndrome to finding a mentor to leveling up. We'll link to all of those in the show notes for you as well. So go get it, man. I love your attitude. I'm very confident you're going to shine here. Proud of you for earning this opportunity. You're going to kill it, man. Don't worry. You've got this.

[00:23:25] You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Use a descriptive subject line. That makes our job a lot easier. If there's something you're going through, any big decision you're wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on stuff — life, love, work. What to do if you're psychotic neighbor is making your life a living hell? Still thinking about how you became a literal Feedback Friday question there, Gabe. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, sometimes literally, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

[00:23:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Too real.

[00:23:56] Jordan Harbinger: All right, what's next?

[00:23:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, my wife and I have two small children and we've both agreed that there's no point in trying to salvage our marriage. She wants me to move out but the problem is my wife is depressed and addicted to her phone. We barely talk now, but when we do, it's usually me getting triggered after having to tell her something for the third time before she actually hears me. Sometimes, she even looks up and says, "What?" then mid-sentence goes back to staring at her phone and not listening.

[00:24:27] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[00:24:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: It's gotten to the point where she's pretty much glued to her phone most of the day. In fact, the other night, our daughter woke up crying from a nightmare and she was scrolling on her phone while hugging her. Meanwhile, our baby had to scream at my wife for every bite to eat because she wouldn't notice any other signals. Our daughter regularly tries to talk to her mother in vain until she finally punches her because everything else has failed. My wife then hits her back often in anger and harder than she probably wanted to. She's trying to teach our daughter that punching is not okay by punching her. Then when I come to see why our daughter is crying, my wife claims that she barely touched her even though last time she left a red mark on her cheek, that was still visible the next day. She seems to have lost her emotional connection to our children a lot of the time. She can easily stare at her phone without care while one or both of our kids are crying. When I ask what's going on, she dismissively says that they always cry, but they don't, not when you actually look at them, listen to them, and are present with them. We both want me to leave, but I can't bear to leave our children in a situation like this. So how can I go? Is there an option that's not as bad as the ones I see? Signed, Fleeing the Scene As I Wean My Wife From the Screen.

[00:25:45] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man. This is really sad and kind of dark. Your wife, okay, your marriage isn't working out. Maybe she's kind of mad at you for whatever reason. That's tough. I get it. But it sounds like she's straight-up addicted to her phone. You're not kidding. She's not very attuned to you or your children. She's actually hitting one of them in anger. And she's sort of neglecting her family overall. Yeah, that is not okay. That's worrisome. And I get why that puts you in such an awful position. The marriage is over. You want to go, but the thought of leaving your kids with their mom in this state, that's pretty scary. I mean, Gabe, imagine having a mom like this as a young child, essentially doomscrolling Twitter while you're crying, or you're asking her to make dinner. That's going to leave some scars.

[00:26:29] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, figurative and literal, apparently.

[00:26:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's—

[00:26:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ugh.

[00:26:32] Jordan Harbinger: —ugly. So this is going to be tough, but I think you have to try to get through to your wife, and the whole staring at her phone thing, the withdrawing thing, the hitting thing, those would be my main focus. The challenge is she probably isn't very receptive to getting parenting notes from you. It sounds like she's pretty defensive when you bring this up and you're getting divorced. So she probably kind of pseudo hates you right now. So you have to lower her guard here. Try to help her see things more objectively without triggering her defenses or getting into a fight.

[00:27:03] And one way to do that would be to sit down with her one day, ideally when the kids are asleep or playing in the other room or something and say, "Listen, I know, we've decided that our marriage is over and I agree. I accept that. And I know you and I can figure out a way to be great parents, even if we're not together as a couple. But if we're going to do that, we have to make sure that we are both available to them as much as possible. I want them to feel loved. I want them to feel supported. I want them to feel like they can depend upon us completely. I'm sure you agree. So given that I have to share something with you that I think is really important. And look, you might get a little mad at me for bringing it up and that's okay. I can deal with that, but I'm just asking you to hear what I'm saying. Please note this is coming from a place of love, the phone thing. I know we've talked about it, but I really feel that it's becoming an obstacle to your connection with the kids. I know you don't mean to be distant. I know you're not trying to ignore them and I know you're feeling depressed and I really feel for you there, but when you spend as much time on your phone as you do, especially when you're taking care of them, when the baby's hungry, when our daughter's upset, that's the signal it sent. Imagine it from their perspective. They see you on the phone and they think, 'Mommy doesn't care. Mommy's not really here with me.' I've been on the other side of that myself. And I'm telling you, even as an adult, it's very hurtful. It feels like we don't have your attention. Like maybe you don't even care. I know that's not the case, but I also think that's why our daughter has been hitting you because it's the only way she knows how to get your attention. And for you and me specifically, the phone thing makes it really hard to communicate, which is so important, especially if we're going to separate and still raise our kids together. And look, I'm not telling you this because I want to make you feel bad or even because I'm perfect, but I know this isn't the kind of mother you want to be. If I leave, I need to know that they're in good hands here. And it would be really sad if watching TikTok all the time got in the way of your relationship with the kids. So, what do you say, do you think you can put some limits around the phone? Maybe only check it when you're alone, when the kids are asleep. Let's figure this out together what makes sense." Tell her something like that. Of course, edit the spiel to your heart's content.

[00:29:17] Hopefully, it'll break through and she'll be like, "Wow. Okay. That was hard to hear, but you're right. I'll do better," but okay, she also might not react that way. She might get defensive like she has in the past. And if she does stick with her, don't escalate. Just ask her what it is about the phone thing that gets her so upset. It might be hard, but if you can help her see the way she puts up walls when you try to talk to her, especially about this phone thing, she might start to go, "Oh, okay. I see now how I'm doing that." And maybe you can ask her why, and you can explore all this stuff together.

[00:29:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. And also what function the phone is serving for her.

[00:29:53] Jordan Harbinger: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:54] Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay. So clearly, she's depressed and I'm guessing that when she's in that state, it's really hard for her to connect with other people. And maybe the phone is just like numbing/distracting—

[00:30:04] Jordan Harbinger: I think so.

[00:30:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: —from the depression, but also is she feeling stressed out and maybe scared about raising two young kids who demand so much of her and the phone is her escape? Or, is she feeling — and I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case as well — a little ashamed that she's not being responsive to the kids and she's not able to connect with them and understand them? And she's disappearing into her phone just to cope. Or, is she just angry, maybe at you, maybe at herself, maybe at the whole situation and again, numbing her feelings with TikTok or whatever? Also, is she talking to somebody specific all day and what's that relationship is about?

[00:30:38] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that would be weird.

[00:30:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, I mean, I'm not saying it's necessarily like another guy, but is it her mom or her best friend?

[00:30:43] Jordan Harbinger: Mmm.

[00:30:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: And it's just like this constant source of support that she feels she needs. All of those would be very interesting to explore because look, we all know that this technology is crazy addictive, right? Social media, entertainment, our phones, in general, they are just designed to hook us. It is very creepy. And if your wife is staring at this thing for hours each day, when she's supposed to be taking care of her kids and should probably be trying to figure out why she feels so depressed, that's almost certainly an addiction/coping strategy. And it's also a form of avoidance.

[00:31:15] I would also really try to help her look at that stuff, not just the fact that she's addicted to her phone but why. If she can identify and work on the triggers that drive her to the phone, whether it's the sound of the baby crying or the worry she feels when she comforts your daughter after a nightmare or her anger about the marriage or whatever, maybe just some baseline anxiety and depression on her part. The more she can work on those root things, the more she'll be able to get this phone thing under control because I really do think the phone is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

[00:31:46] Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Yeah. We got to get to the root of the behavior.

[00:31:48] Speaking of which, I would also check out an interview I did with Robert Greene a while back. We talked about how to change behavior, how to interpret people's reactions, why our lower natures are often the default, that whole episode would be great for you right about now. That was episode 117. We'll link to that in the show notes.

[00:32:07] Beyond the attention thing though, you have to put an end to the hitting.

[00:32:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:32:11] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, come on.

[00:32:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally.

[00:32:12] Jordan Harbinger: Hopefully, this conversation about the phone will make your daughter stop hitting your wife, to get her attention, and also put an end to your wife's impulse to hit back, which is somewhat inappropriate, to be honest, but you might have to talk about that more explicitly. "And I would just be very firm here, no more hitting our daughter, even when she hits you first, even when she gets on your nerves, that is not okay. That is not the way we're going to treat our kids. I need your commitment on that." And again, do your best not to shame her here, although I cannot blame you for wanting to, it's freaking horrifying to find out that your wife is putting her hands on your kid. You just need the behavior to stop.

[00:32:49] And if she needs deeper help to resolve that, maybe you encourage her to talk to a professional, actually, maybe you even go together, even if it's just five or 10 sessions with a family therapist about how to handle the divorce with your kids, how to raise them together. That would be a great investment right now.

[00:33:06] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed.

[00:33:06] Jordan Harbinger: And if the whole phone and hitting conversation, doesn't go very well. Then I would definitely push to have that conversation with a therapist. Your wife might need to hear all this from a professional to really soak it in. And she might have some deeper work to do to resolve all this stuff. If your wife wakes up and gets better, then I think you're going to feel a lot more comfortable leaving the house. After that, your job is just to be a great dad. You won't be able to control everything mom does at home with them. And that's just a tough reality of life, but you can be the great parent that your kids deserve and you can be the safe person for them to come to if mom isn't always there for them, the way that they need her to be. And then one day, you'll get to send them to therapy. That's how this all works.

[00:33:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's the cycle.

[00:33:50] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. So keep doing what you're doing. Be present with them. Listen to them, make them feel loved and understood. That's really the best thing you can do. And hopefully, your wife catches up to that. Who knows? Maybe you even model for her what a present parent looks like. And that's how she catches up. So, sorry you're going through this, I really am, especially for the kids. As a father, I can only imagine how painful it must be to see your partner hurt your kids and also just sort of have kind of a slow meltdown—

[00:34:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:34:18] Jordan Harbinger: —from the look of it. But if you approach this conversation with enough love and patience, I think you're going to get through to her. And I'm wishing you the best. Sending you good thoughts from over here.

[00:34:27] Speaking of phones, leave yours right where it is. And we'll be right back after a word — well, a word from me about our sponsors, all right, the amazing sponsors who support this show. We'll be right back.

[00:34:39] This episode is sponsored in part by Peloton. Jen and I have had the Peloton Bike for almost three years. We definitely love this thing. Peloton makes it easy to work out consistently because the classes are fun. You get lost in the music, but most of all, the instructors really are world class and hilarious. Cody Rigsby is Jen's favorite. He will entertain and make you laugh super hard. He'll make you enjoy pushing through a strenuous workout and look forward to more. You're more likely to stick to a fitness routine if it's something you actually enjoy. And Peloton is really good at that. They've kind of figured that out. There are thousands of classes. Take it live, take it on-demand. Do a 10-minute upper body stretch between calls or a 40-minute run or cycle class before bed. There's also strength training and yoga, dance cardio, boxing, all available 24/7 whenever your schedule allows. I also love doing the scenic rides through Patagonia or Switzerland or Sun Moon Lake in Taiwan. I actually rode a real bike there in person. And it's pretty cool, you can do that in Peloton as well, a really kind of a fun, unique thing there.

[00:35:35] Jen Harbinger: Motivation that moves you anytime, anywhere. Try the Peloton Bike or Tread risk-free for 30 days. Learn more at onepeloton.com. New members only, terms apply.

[00:35:45] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Progressive insurance. Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. So while you're listening to me talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising, maybe even doing a little grocery shopping, but if you're not in some kind of moving vehicle, there's something else you could be doing right now, getting an auto quote from Progressive insurance. It's easy and you could save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who save by switching to Progressive save over $700 on average and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts — discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner, and more. So just like your favorite podcast, Progressive will be with you 24/7, 365 days a year. So you're protected no matter. Multitask right now, quote your car insurance at progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive.

[00:36:29] Jen Harbinger: Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National Annual Average Insurance Savings by New Customer surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2020 and May 2021. Potential savings will vary. Discounts, not available in all states and situations.

[00:36:43] Jordan Harbinger: Thank you so much for listening and thank you so much for supporting the show. The sponsors, all the discount codes, all the deals you're looking for are at jordanharbinger.com/deals. You can also search for any sponsor using the search box right there on the website at jordanharbinger.com as well. Please consider supporting those who support this show.

[00:37:00] Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:37:04] All right, next up.

[00:37:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. For a few months, I've been dating a woman. I really like we have amazing chemistry in every way that matters. But I just found out that her dad is extremely sick and might die soon. This is making it hard for her to be available and engage in a new relationship. I want to be there for her, but I also want to give her the space she needs to be with her family, but also make sure that my needs are met in the relationship. But then I don't want to be selfish or overbearing given that she's going through such a difficult thing and then potentially lose the relationship. How should I handle this situation? Signed. A Boyfriend on the Bubble.

[00:37:44] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this one's pretty straightforward. Your girlfriend is going through one of the most intense things you can go through in life, potentially losing a parent. And that takes priority over your relationship for the moment, plain and simple.

[00:37:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:37:56] Jordan Harbinger: I'm not saying you can't have a relationship while she spends time with her dad. But if she's having a hard time being available to you and being available to her family right now, I think her family probably takes precedence here, especially if her father does die. This is precious time for her. It's important time and you're right. She deserves that space and demanding more than she can give because it suits your interests. It might be selfish or overbearing. You're not wrong to want to be close to her. I'm just saying that as her boyfriend, you have to be sensitive to what she needs right now. But it doesn't mean you guys can't stay connected while she goes through this experience.

[00:38:33] The best thing you can do is to be supportive, to be loving, to be available. Check-in on her. If she needs to talk, be there to talk. If she needs some distance, so she can be with her family or process this on her own, give her that space. If you can put her first during this tough chapter, if you can hit pause on your own interest for a little bit, I think you'll have a much better chance at protecting the relationship long term. Not by asserting your needs, but by taking her needs seriously. And look, I'm not saying your needs don't matter. They do. And hopefully, she holds a little space for those while she goes through all this too. But I think if you were in her shoes, you'd appreciate a partner who understood what you were going through and let it be about you during a time like this.

[00:39:17] If you want the relationship to last, your best bet is to be a good partner to her. And if you've ever felt confused by what that means, well, you can ask her. You can literally say, "Hey, what can I do for you right now? You want to hang out and talk? You want some alone time? What are you feeling? How can I be the most helpful?" And then let her help you be the person she really needs right now.

[00:39:41] I'm really sorry, your girlfriend is going through this sad time. Sorry, it's putting you guys in a strange place, but this is normal and it won't always be that way. Let your girlfriend move through this experience and trust that your relationship will unfold the way that it's meant to. And I hope her dad pulls through, but if he doesn't, then your girlfriend's going to need good people around her. And I'm sure that you'll be one of them. So hang in there. Sending you good thoughts.

[00:40:05] All right, next up.

[00:40:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe. Ever since I was a kid, I've been told that I was gifted by my teachers, friends, and family. I never had to study and I've never had trouble picking things up. I've tried my hardest to continuously learn. For example, I've learned programming, taught myself French and Italian, and went to school for particle physics. Lately, though, I feel like I have to dumb myself down to talk to my friends. They're great people and I have a great time with them, but I can't talk at the level I'd like, or they just won't understand. Am I just being a pretentious douchebag? Should I be acting differently? Signed, The Passing Prodigy.

[00:40:44] Jordan Harbinger: Well, well, well, look at Mr. Smarty Pants over here.

[00:40:48] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:40:48] Jordan Harbinger: Geez. All right. You're some kind of Mensa genius. You learn Python and taught yourself to read freaking Voltaire in the original French, and you did have a degree in particle physics. You're better than us. We get it. All right, we get it. No, I'm just playing. This is all very impressive. Honestly, I'm actually low-key envious of your brain.

[00:41:05] So here's the thing. When you have a gift like this, it can be harder to relate to other people sometimes. So yeah, it makes sense that you're sort of adjusting to communicate with these friends. I don't think that makes you a pretentious D-bag on its own. I actually think that makes you flexible and sensitive to your audience.

[00:41:23] Now, if you're making a big show of it. Like, "So I just wrote this fascinating paper on quantum mechanics by the notable Italian physicist, Alessandro Particleni. Let me dumb it way down for you so you can keep up."

[00:41:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's pretentious.

[00:41:34] Jordan Harbinger: That's pretentious.

[00:41:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

[00:41:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, that's annoying. Or if you have a monologue in your head, that's going, "Oh, I'm so much better than these sub-intellects. Why do I even bother with these people? They're all so hopeless." Then yeah, I'd say keep an eye on those judgments but just make sure that you're speaking in a way that your audience could understand, not dropping into some Latin or whatever. I don't think that's pretentiousness. That's just being thoughtful.

[00:41:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hmm. Good point.

[00:41:57] Jordan Harbinger: It might be the reason you're able to have relationships with people who have different interests or capabilities. But all that said, if you're regularly dumbing yourself down for all of your friends, that's probably a sign you could use some new people in your life. You have so much to explore with other smart people. And a lot of these things you're into like coding or languages or physics, they need other good minds to keep developing. And if these friends just can't do that with you, then I do think you're probably missing an important opportunity to hone your skills, to deepen your knowledge, to expand your world. It would be like if a brilliant classical musician who went to Juilliard was trying to jam with a bunch of amateurs playing the kazoo or something. You know, you'd be like, "Uh, this might be fun, but yeah, maybe I should be playing with the philharmonic.

[00:42:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Good point. I like that. That's a good metaphor. He might inadvertently be holding himself back here a little bit. I definitely think you need a few peers or mentors or teachers who can meet you on this gifted level of yours. Otherwise, you could sort of plateau or lose steam, or you might just keep going on your own and do great, but you'll feel lonely and misunderstood and disconnected from people who appreciate your gifts. And that would be a shame too.

[00:43:07] So keep seeking people out around your interests and be a little bit more deliberate about the people you do hang out with and how much time you spend with them. I do think that's important whether you're highly gifted or not. But also that doesn't mean you should necessarily ditch all your old friends. I think it's important to have friendships of all kinds, right? Because you can easily cut yourself off from wonderful people if you decide to only associate with geniuses, right? Or like only associate with like PhDs and particle physics or whatever it is. That's one of the joys of friendship, right? That it can revolve around so many different things. It can stimulate you in all these different ways.

[00:43:44] So yeah, maybe you attend some physics conferences or, or you join in advanced Italian class or you meet some people online who nerd out on string theory or whatever, whatever you're into. And then you can hang out with your nerd friends and you can do nerdish and then you can go back and hang out with your old friends and talk about movies or sports or whatever it is. And that's great too.

[00:44:03] Jordan Harbinger: I like that. This nerd's job is to find a balance here.

[00:44:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's right. Exactly.

[00:44:07] Jordan Harbinger: The best thing you can do is keep following your excitement. Keep challenging yourself, keep seeking out people who make you feel like the truest version of yourself. You can't go wrong if you're building relationships that are stimulating and authentic.

[00:44:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Mmm.

[00:44:20] Jordan Harbinger: And that might lead you away from some of these old friends, or it might make you appreciate them in a totally new way, but whatever you do keep growing in ways that light you up. That's the key.

[00:44:32] And Gabe, I'm glad there's just finally somebody who understands how I feel, you know? Yawn, dealing with all y'all peons all day over here with my big, smooth brain. Smooth brains are the smart brains, right?

[00:44:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Smooth ones though, that's what you want. Smooth those brains out.

[00:44:45] All right.

[00:44:48] Jordan Harbinger: Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thank you so much. Go back and check out Tessa West and Johann Hari if you haven't yet.

[00:44:56] If you want to know how I managed to book all these great people for the show, I got a big old network and I manage my relationships using software, systems, and tiny habits every single. I'm teaching you how to do it, I'm teaching you how to dig that well before you get thirsty. Build those relationships before you need them. It's our Six-Minute Networking course, and the course is free on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. Again, this stuff takes a few minutes a day. The course is free. I don't want your credit card. I just want you to get better at this stuff, jordanharbinger.com/course.

[00:45:28] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Advertisers, deals, and discounts all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram or connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi.

[00:45:47] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others, share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:46:22] You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with a human rights activist, revealing forced organ trafficking that's going on right now in China.

[00:46:31] David Kilgour: The government started the system, runs the system, it's simply hideous, essentially taking the vital organs of heart, lung, liver, corneas, any important organ that we have from people without a trial. These people are never convicted of anything. They just are out working in these forced labor camps. They don't get paid. They live in a dormitory. Some of them with 16 people. When their unlucky day arrives, somebody comes and drags them out over to the operating table where they're killed in the process, removing their organs. And selling these organs to wealthy Chinese citizens and to what we call organ tourists coming from places like America and Canada.

[00:47:07] If you arrive for a new liver chances are you go to the number one people's hospital in Shanghai, the doctor comes up and sees you takes your blood type, and so on. And then he finds that somebody who's a matching organ for you in camp number 50. And that poor man is taken out of a dormitory and is taken in and his kidney liver, and so on are taken out. He's of course killed in the process. They burn his body and they fly the organs to you in Shanghai. And you come home with a new kidney or liver. You're hoping that it didn't happen the way it did, but in fact, it did happen.

[00:47:39] I remember talking to one man from a country in Asia who told me he had to go four times to get a kidney. That's four dead people, four people died, so he could get a kidney that appears to be not working. It's something that seems unimaginable to most of us in the 21st century that this is happening. This is beyond anything even the Nazis could have done.

[00:47:59] Jordan Harbinger: To hear how much a healthy kidney, heart, or lung goes for in this immoral market, check out episode 497 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.