663: Thinking of Another Dude: Is Marriage Screwed? | Feedback Friday

663: Thinking of Another Dude: Is Marriage Screwed? | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show is brought to you by Nissan. Why wait for tomorrow? Today is made for thrill.

[00:00:09] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the sprits of WD40 on this squeaky hinge of swinging life advice, Gabriel Mizrahi. 

[00:00:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Nice. 

[00:00:20] Jordan Harbinger: On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission on the show is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. 

[00:00:45] If you're new to the show, on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. 

[00:00:58] This week, we had Dr. Rachel Zoffness on pain. This one, it's Spotify's most-shared list. It's been shared a ton of times. It's about how pain works in the body and in the brain, and some strategies to manage pain, especially chronic pain. It's really some amazing groundbreaking stuff. And her work is helping a lot of people. I am blown away by the response to this episode. We also had Daniel Levitin from the vault. He's the author of Weaponized Lies, which is a great title and tells you all you really need to know — misinformation, disinformation, irresponsible information, how to become a better consumer of information. And so check out those episodes if you have not had a chance to listen just yet.

[00:01:37] I also write every so often on the blog, my latest post, how to break up with a friend. We've been getting this question here on Feedback Friday, quite a lot lately. How do you know when it's time to part ways with a friend, whether your reasons for putting an end to a friendship are legitimate and how you actually have that difficult conversation. There isn't really a clear playbook when it comes to ending a friendship. So I wanted to get that down for you guys, offer some thoughts on how to break that piece of news gracefully and effectively and make sure you're choosing the right people going forward. And if that's not a hint, Gabriel, I don't know what it is.

[00:02:10] So make sure you've had a look at and listen to everything we created for you here this week. 

[00:02:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'll read that article. 

[00:02:15] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you might want to. 

[00:02:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: But who's breaking with who? 

[00:02:17] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's good, that's— 

[00:02:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Just saying I should prepare, emotionally prepare. 

[00:02:21] Jordan Harbinger: That's right. 

[00:02:22] Gabriel Mizrahi: As always, I'm not here with Feedback Friday producer Gabriel Mizrahi, because we broke up. 

[00:02:27] Jordan Harbinger: For once, I'm doing the show by myself. Yeah. All right. Gabe, what's, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? 

[00:02:32] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi Jordan and Gabe, I'm 24 years old and three years ago I met my now-husband. My parents had actually told me to not date him and were less than thrilled when we got engaged because of some things he did in his past, which he had already fixed. My parents came around by the wedding and they do love him now. My husband is amazing and I love him so much, but I'm sure they feel like I'm married down. The thing is I'm now having these really confusing thoughts. I can't shake about this guy I've been friends with for years who I've always liked. I never told him so, but he was someone who, if he had told me he liked me, I would have married him on the spot. Lately, he has been on my mind so much. I really wish that I had at least asked him if we ever had a chance at dating. I'm terribly confused. And I feel awful that I'm basically having an emotional affair with this other guy who I don't even know has romantic feelings for me. I don't have kids. I'm still young and now would be the time to turn my life upside down if I were going to do it. On top of that, I'm sure my parents would support me if I did. Should I shake these thoughts off or should I give them more weight? What do they mean? Is this normal or am I just a terrible person? Signed, Seriously Tripping on These Second Thoughts. 

[00:03:45] Jordan Harbinger: Oh boy. Yeah, this is a bit messy. It sounds like you have a lot of complex feelings right now about your husband, about this friend, about yourself. And they're all kind of swirling around right now, not very well-defined, and that's a confusing place to be. So, first of all, just to get totally clear on something, I think it's important to recognize that you're fantasizing about a guy who A, isn't your full-time partner, which means you've probably idealized and romanticized him a lot over the years. And B, you don't even know if he feels the same way about you. 

[00:04:19] Now, if he did feel the same and you were really willing to turn your life upside down to be with him, hey, maybe he is the right guy. That does happen and fair enough. But you have to recognize how much fantasy and projection is probably taking place in a situation like this. It's very easy to look at someone else and go, "Oh, if I could just be with him, if only we were together, then I would be happy. Then I'd feel fulfilled," or whatever the fantasy is. And maybe there's some basis for that. I know you've been friends for years, but you don't really know this guy's true feelings. And that's one of the major things that gives me pause here. Which brings me to my second thought, your feelings about this guy, I think they say more about the state of your current relationship than they do about this one person. 

[00:05:04] Because the fact that you're thinking about someone else, regardless of whether he shares her feelings, that almost certainly means that there are issues in your marriage or at least some unresolved stuff on your end. Because fantasizing about someone else, constantly wondering if they like you back, generally speaking, that's not something a happily married person does. And if you weren't dissatisfied on some level, I don't think that this guy would have such a pull on you. And the fact that he does have such a pull on you, even when you don't know how he feels — that to me is the ultimate sign that this fantasy is probably reflecting some deficiencies in your marriage or some concerns or reservations about your current husband. And that is the real issue here, in my opinion. 

[00:05:47] My advice, I would use your feelings about this other guy to better understand how you feel about your husband, the one you currently have, right? If you're pining for someone else, it doesn't matter if it's an old friend you've always loved or some random person you met in an elevator one day. The fact that you're seriously entertaining those thoughts about anyone means that there's more for you to know about what you really want and how you really feel. And I know that that's even more complicated because you do love your husband. It's not like your marriage is totally dead and voila, here's the one that got away. But that's even more reason for you to get clear on whether this marriage is right for you.

[00:06:21] And if you do decide to end your marriage and explore things with this other guy, assuming by the way that he's even on the same page, then I would be very clear about your reasons for doing that. I'm not saying you should, that's up to you, but if you do my final piece of advice is this — do it primarily because you are sure this marriage isn't what you want anymore and not because there's this shiny new thing, new guy, whatever over there. Because again, those feelings you're having, they say more about you and the marriage that you are in than they do about the potential of this one guy. 

[00:06:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ugh, well said, Jordan, that is exactly right. This is definitely messy, which is fine. I mean, the messiness just means that she has some work to do, to figure out how she feels. But to act on those messy feelings without really exploring them, that's where this could get tricky. But Jordan, there's one other thing that stood out to me in this letter, which was the thing about how her parents feel that she married down and that if she did turn her life upside down to pursue this guy, she's— what was it? She's sure her parents would support her. 

[00:07:21] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that jumped out to me too, interesting thing to include.

[00:07:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I find it interesting that a 24-year-old woman, an adult, is referring so much to her parents' opinion about her love life. I get the sense that her parents' opinion carries a lot of weight with her, or maybe she's tapping into their doubts about her husband as she starts to confront some of her own.

[00:07:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Or using their doubts to sort of build the case for leaving him. 

[00:07:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hmm, that is also a strong possibility, whatever it is. That's something I would look at more closely, the role that your parents' opinion is playing in your life. Because ultimately, this is your decision. It's not theirs. And it does raise an interesting question, which is why does your parents' support matter so much? Are you looking to them to give you — I don't know — permission or validation to make a dramatic change in your life? And if you are, is that helping you make a choice that feels more authentic? Or is it only muddying the waters further? Because the big theme of your letter to me is this confusion. You know, like, "What are these feelings mean? Do I shake them off? Do I give them more weight? Is this normal? Am I a terrible person?" And now, you're factoring in a whole other set of opinions and feelings, your parents, which could be infecting and maybe even eclipsing your own. 

[00:08:31] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Great point, Gabe. There are a lot of moving pieces. But the one piece that matters the most is her. Just in terms of getting clear on her own feelings, making the most honest, possible choice. So I would parse those feelings to take your parents out of the equation for a moment, take this other dude out of the equation, and just ask yourself, "What do I want? Is this the marriage that I truly want to be in?" And until you get clear on that, I think this whole situation will actually remain a little bit confusing. And if you need help doing that, I would definitely recommend finding someone to talk to. A therapist could really help you sort through this stuff and also explore all of the relationships, including the one with your parents, by the way, that are shaping your feelings about this other guy. And also figure out why you're having these feelings when you still love your amazing husband like you said. 

[00:09:22] And like we said, this isn't a dead-marriage situation. There might still be an incredible relationship here. And it would just be a shame to compromise that for another guy who might not even share your feelings. Your husband definitely deserves that clarity from you too. So dig in, there's more for you to understand here, and I hope you get to do that. Wishing you all the best. 

[00:09:43] Gabe, you know, what this kind of reminds me of in — this is like the interpersonal marriage version of — have you ever heard me say when you're looking at whether or not you want to start a business, evaluate whether you're running from your current job or you're running to the business, the new idea?

[00:09:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. 

[00:09:59] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:10:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally, yeah. 

[00:10:00] Jordan Harbinger: So this is kind of like that same thing, right? It's like, "Are you starting a business because you hate your job and your boss is driving you crazy?" Or, "Are you starting a business because you want to start a business and you've really been passionate about that? And this is kind of like, "Are you leaving your marriage because it's a problem with your marriage?" Or, "Are you running to this other guy because he's a distraction from your current problems and your current marriage that are totally fixable potentially?" 

[00:10:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. 

[00:10:26] Jordan Harbinger: Or does that have nothing to do with it? Like same thing with a job and starting a business. Sometimes it's just solved by having a talk with your boss or getting a new job, but not by throwing all your life savings into Pokemon card dealership, right? So this— 

[00:10:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. This guy, being the Pokemon dealership of human beings. Yeah. 

[00:10:43] Jordan Harbinger: This guy might just be a Pokemon card business, side hustle, gone wrong. Yeah. And it's really easy to do when you're having doubts to be like, "But there's this other thing over there. So I'm actually upgrading," instead of being like, "I'm diving into uncertainty, but that's okay because this isn't right for me." That's what she needs to figure out because we can't make that decision for her and nobody else can. 

[00:11:04] Gabriel Mizrahi: Such a good point. 

[00:11:05] Jordan Harbinger: You know, who is without a doubt, 100 percent the perfect match for you? The amazing products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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[00:13:36] Now, back to Feedback Friday. 

[00:13:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe, I grew up with a mother who is obsessed with religion. She used God as a method of punishment and control and claimed that he talked to her about everything. She was also obsessed with appearances and would remove anyone from our lives who questioned her. Then 13 years ago, my boyfriend, now my husband, figured out that I was being abused. After my parents took away any means for me to communicate with him, he convinced the police to do a welfare check. The police found out about the abuse and I left with them. Since then my parents and my sister have sought to ruin our reputations by calling and emailing our employers and anyone else they could to tell them that we were on drugs, dealing drugs, harassing them, and so on. They also worked to sever our relationships with other family members. In recent years though, my family went through a series of deaths and illnesses. So we've had to be around one another. I've been talking with my mom some because her brother's health took a turn for the worse. And we agreed to put our differences aside to be there for his son. She seems to only want a relationship on her terms, but I just want to be able to communicate when we need to and peacefully coexist, because I don't want any more drama. Am I being overly cautious or is it okay to let my guard down? Signed, Approaching this Black Hole Without Getting Sucked In? 

[00:14:55] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man, this is wild. First of all, I am so sorry. You grew up with these parents. I cannot even imagine what that must have been like being abused, being isolated like that. This is a real 20/20 Special with Diane Sawyer type-ish. So I am very glad that you got out, though. It's amazing that your husband helped you get out of there. That must've been so intense, but what a relief that must have been.

[00:15:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Tell me about it. 

[00:15:20] Jordan Harbinger: Look, the facts you've shared with us are pretty stark. I'm not going to mince words. Your parents, they're insane — you know this. What they're doing, trying to ruin your reputations and all of these bizarre ways, turning family members against you, trying to ice you out. It is unhinged, truly certifiable. 

[00:15:40] Gabe, I love that this mother is this God-fearing woman who's trying to destroy her daughter's life for getting away from her textbook abuse. Remind me. Where in the Bible does it say you should ruin your child's reputation as a means of revenge? Was that Old Testament or is that New Testament?

[00:15:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: I believe it's Prophets. I can't remember the chapter and verse at the moment. 

[00:16:00] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Leviticus 18:22, thou shalt blow up your daughter's life, bruh. 

[00:16:04] Exactly. Now, look, I get why you might need to talk to your parents here and there, like when someone's in the hospital or whatever, but I am very concerned about you and your husband. On top of having to play nice with people who have abused you in various ways for so many, you're actually also giving them more chances to hurt you, to possibly gather more information they could use against you, to pull you back into their orbit of control. And this is a real risk. So in my view, no, you're not being overly cautious by keeping your distance. I definitely would not let my guard down around these people. They have shown you who they are. There is no indication that they wouldn't do more of this stuff in the future, and that this might even be part of the plan, right? Your parents, they don't want a healthy, loving relationship with you. They want to control you. 

[00:16:56] And I can't bold highlight, underline this part enough. They actually want to hurt you. They have already tried to do that and have done that, in fact, in the past. So my take on this is, sure, interact with them minimally if, and only if you absolutely have to, like, if you have to visit your uncle in the hospital or attend a funeral or deal with legal matters or whatever, but I would not be grabbing a latte with them in the hospital cafeteria. Or don't banter by the baked ziti at awake. What is there to talk about, right? This isn't a true relationship. This is a vehicle for abuse and manipulation. If you're going to have a relationship with them at all, it should be a relationship on your terms with very strong boundaries around what you will and will not tolerate from them. In a situation like this, that's the only way you can peacefully coexist because they're not going to change. You guys have to adapt. 

[00:17:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree completely. But Jordan, I'm also trying to understand why they have to interact with their parents for the sake of other family members. Like this latest thing with her cousin, right? She's been talking with her mom more because her uncle's health took a turn for the worst and they want to be here for his son, which I understand. But why does being there for her cousin mean she has to talk to her crazy mom? If this were my family, I would be trying to maintain good relationships with them without going through mom as much as possible.

[00:18:20] In fact, I would probably approach these family members in a way that doesn't make mom the gatekeeper, because being the gatekeeper is where she gets a lot of her power. I'm guessing that's how she gets to control the narrative, right? So I would call them, I would visit them on my own. Maybe share a little bit of your side of the story, not in a gossipy, pot-stirring, "you got to pick my side" kind of way, but just in a, "here's the deal with my crazy mom, just so you know, what's going on," kind of way. And maybe you visit your uncle when your mom isn't there. Maybe you take your cousin out, comfort him one-on-one. If you tell them the facts, I'm sure they'll understand why you have to be careful about spending time with your parents. So point is, if your parents are dead set on slandering you to the rest of the family, then it would be very helpful to have your own relationships on your own terms with these other folks. 

[00:19:06] Jordan Harbinger: Definitely. Look, I'm sure once your cousins hear how Aunt Phyllis muttered to God all day long and then emailed your bosses an 11-page letter in 16-point orange Comic Sans font about how you sold meth and harassed her and her husband because you didn't respect their beliefs or whatever. They're going to get the point pretty quickly, unless they're also, you know, on shaky ground, so to speak. 

[00:19:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Good point, yeah. 

[00:19:28] Jordan Harbinger: So look, bottom line, stand your ground here. Hold the boundaries. I'm so sorry that you have these parents, but it sounds like you've built a really great life outside of them. And that's incredible. You should be proud of that. If things are going to improve, this is your parents' work to do. It's not yours. Sadly, it really doesn't sound like they're going to do it at least not anytime soon. So your best bet is to just stay the hell away from them. And hang in there and take care of yourself. You know we're sending you good thoughts. I know this is not easy, but you got this. 

[00:20:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan, it's always the 16-point orange Comic Sans font when it comes to those crazy emails, isn't it?

[00:20:05] Jordan Harbinger: I would just say Comic Sans font, in general, indicates somebody should be institutionalized, but that's just me. 

[00:20:11] You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line. It makes our job a lot easier. If there's something you're going through, any big decision that you are wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on life, love, work — what to do if your friend's husband assaulted you on his wedding night — and Gabe, by the way, can't stop thinking about that story from last week. I've told so many people about it because it's shocking. That was shockingly intense. 

[00:20:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yup. 

[00:20:36] Jordan Harbinger: Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. 

[00:20:45] All right. What's next? 

[00:20:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe, I run very successful social media pages reviewing this one company's products. These pages have amassed millions of followers and have turned into my full-time business, supporting both me and my partner. It's been amazing and I've received so much positive feedback and have grown immensely over the past two years. In fact, when I post a glowing review or video that goes viral, the product tends to sell out nationwide. I've even published books, providing recipes using this company's products that increase the company's sales. Then a few months ago, I received a cease and desist from this company setting trademark infringement and demanding that I stop posting altogether and add a disclaimer that I'm not affiliated with them, despite the fact that I've had a disclaimer since day one. When I tell you that my world felt like it collapsed, I mean it. I couldn't get out of bed for weeks. I always try to do the right thing in every situation. And this threw me for a real loop. I can hardly even watch court scenes and TV shows because they make me too nervous. I hired a lawyer specializing in trademarks immediately. And he said that what I'm doing is fair use and is not infringement and drafted up a response letter saying so. The books, on the other hand, we may have to edit those a little. We haven't heard back yet and it's been over a month. I'm nervous every day that they're going to sue me and I'm going to lose everything I have mounting a defense. I've been considering the option of rebranding and putting my name and my username instead of the companies and just continue reviewing all sorts of products. I think that would still be very successful, but I struggled to make any decision without hearing back. My lawyer doesn't think they're going to sue, but I'm incredibly anxious. I also feel like if I don't hear back for a long time, my business is at a complete standstill. I've already realized a loss of almost $20,000 during this whole process. And I don't want to lose everything I've built. How can I safely move forward without losing my business entirely? Signed, Seeking Peace in the Midst of the Cease and Desist.

[00:22:41] Jordan Harbinger: Well, first of all, congratulations on building such a successful business that is hugely impressive. Building a thriving business and the whole social media review world that is not easy. It takes a ton of persistence and hard work and passion. And the fact that you're essentially selling this company's products better than they are with — probably have a multi-million dollar marketing budget that just speaks volumes about your skills in this area. 

[00:23:05] Oh, so a little legal note here. Fair use, fair use is a defense that you use in court. This company probably actually fired off a lot of cease and desist letters to every Instagram account that used their name, probably not even just Instagram accounts, any social account that used their name. In-house counsel probably didn't even look closely at who they were sending it out to. In fact, they might have hired an external company to do this on the cheap and send out 500 of these things. Further, cease-and-desist letters, generally, are not that big of a deal. They're just a letter basically telling you what they might do or reserve the right to do, which doesn't mean anything in particular. Also most cease and desist, they don't end up in lawsuits. Most of them go away when the company realizes, "Ah, it's going to cause more money than it's worth to go after these people." Or somebody will finally take a look at it, you know, "Hey, they're still posting," and then they're going to go, "Oh, this is a great account for us," right? "This person is crushing sales and selling tons of recipes and devices. And they're a great affiliate for us," or whatever it is. The idea though is not to get to courts in the first place. So before you freak out that this is going to be the end of your business or your life for good, just put this into perspective a little bit. There's a very good chance nobody even looked at your account. They just sent this based on an automated, based on some automation script that they ran. 

[00:24:18] But Gabe, it's funny, I'm listening to all this and I'm thinking, "Why did this company not just buy her Instagram and TikTok accounts and/or partner with her as the head of online marketing or influencer marketing or loop her in? Just like how dumb is this brand and brands do this all the time, by the way. 

[00:24:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yup. 

[00:24:35] Jordan Harbinger: They see someone doing their job better than they do, selling their products out at no additional cost to them, and instead of going, "Wow, this is great. I wonder how we can capitalize on that," they have freaking Frank over in legal, hit her with a cease and desist so that everybody loses, like why? It's just hashtag lawyers always. And I say this as an attorney. This is just one of those ham-fisted sledgehammers, stupid solutions to a non-problem. 

[00:25:02] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:25:02] Jordan Harbinger: They probably had one person pretending to be that brand. And they're like, "All right, we're going to ban everyone from using our name online who's not us." And it's like, great job morons. 

[00:25:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: So annoying, so uncreative — plus, she already had the disclaimer in place and it's apparently fair use. So do they even have a case here or are they just being incredibly petty? 

[00:25:20] Jordan Harbinger: Nah, it's a little bit of everything. It just really grinds my gears. I think it's more ignorance than anything. Again, I doubt any human even looked at this account. It's probably a machine that mailed all the letters out. It's just so silly to me. Some people just create unnecessary drama when the obvious answer is just to work together and make more money. 

[00:25:37] Anyway, I'm sorry. This is how. I get why it threw you for a loop, but here's the thing you hired a lawyer. That was a good idea. It sounds like he's advising you well. Again, absolutely the right thing to do. So rather than chime in on the legal aspect here, I want to focus on the main issue, which is your response to this whole situation. Because it sounds to me like this challenge from the company, it wasn't just a bump in the road. It wasn't just a tough obstacle. It was actually kind of devastating. It is currently devastating you and your business. You are having a profoundly anxious response to this cease and desist. You're spinning out, imagining all these terrible things that could happen to you in the future. And that response is now hurting your business. Possibly even more than whatever this company might do to you down the road, especially considering that your attorney's opinion is that they're not even going to sue you, right? This is a non-issue and I would concur. So if you want to figure out how to move forward, I would explore why this challenge is having such an effect on you. 

[00:26:36] Gabe, I find it fascinating that she can't even watch like Suits or Law & Order because it's too stressful. 

[00:26:42] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:26:43] Jordan Harbinger: And I'm not laughing at that. I'm just guessing that conflict is very unsettling or threatening for her. Maybe the idea of being taken to task by a big company feels overly exposing, intimidating nerve-wracking— 

[00:26:55] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure. 

[00:26:56] Jordan Harbinger: And maybe it makes her feel like she doesn't have the confidence or the resilience to take on that fight. All of which makes perfect sense, by the way. Legal stuff is always unpleasant. I'm an attorney, and when I'm involved in lawsuits, I'm like, aah, I'm generating, I'm losing, right? The prospect of being sued would make any normal person's stomach turn, even an actual attorney. So you're not just some weird anomaly who's nervous about nothing here. I've been there myself a few times, in fact. But if you want to pick yourself back up, you're going to have to understand what's underneath this anxious response and where it comes from. And also what thoughts the anxious response gives rise to. 

[00:27:33] Like if you're laying in bed at night and you're thinking, "Well, if I can't use this brand's name, then I'm not going to sell any products, and that means I'm going to make no money. And that means they're not going to be able to afford my legal fees. And then they're going to sue me. And of course, they're going to sue me and then I'm going to lose my house. And I got to declare bankruptcy and I'm never going to be able to piece my career back together and I'll lose all my friends. And my mom's going to say, 'I told you, you should've gone to medical school,'" right? It's like these what-ifs and then the spiral of imagination that just goes down the drain. That is — and I'm saying I'm speaking from personal experience, that's the kind of monologue that you just have to stop in its tracks and go, "Okay, hang on a second. Do I know for a fact that I'm going to even make less if I make a few changes to my business? Do I know for sure that they're going to Sue me? Am I really going to lose everything? If I have to edit the books that I printed?" you know, really investigate those thoughts. See if they're true. 

[00:28:24] The anxiety will tell you that they are all true. And it also sorts of like magically astral project you into the worst possible version of the future, where every horrible thing that could happen does happen and works out for your enemies completely 100 percent. When in reality, you're just at this point right now dealing with whatever issue is right in front of you. And if you handle that stuff well today, the future, it'll take care of itself. It always does. And I know that that's easier said than done, but these are a few ways you can cut through the suffering a little bit and use the anxiety to fuel you in a helpful way rather than just letting it paralyze you. 

[00:29:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: Man, that is really good advice, Jordan, because the feeling of being paralyzed, that's kind of the worst thing that's happened so far, isn't it? As of now, the only truly bad thing that happened is that she's put everything on pause and lost $20,000. And that's not entirely because this company is being difficult. It's because she's afraid to make a move. So if I were you, I would find a way to keep going while you wait for their response. I know that takes courage. I know there's a leap of faith involved there, and that is scary. But I think if you keep waiting like this, you're going to regret it because game it outright.

[00:29:38] If the company comes back and says, "Yeah, we have a problem. We're going to sue you, you have to change this and that." Then you're going to wish you had kept going, so you had the revenue to pay for your lawyer and to make those changes. And if they ended up dropping the whole thing in six months, you're going to kick yourself for giving up that revenue because you were scared.

[00:29:54] So either way, you're going to wish you kept going. So your best bet is to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And sure, be thoughtful about that. You know, don't do anything reckless. Maybe you check in with your attorney every couple of weeks and make sure you're not provoking this company or inviting more trouble than you need, but don't let this company's petty quibbling stop you from running a great business.

[00:30:14] Also, that's another really good way to cope with the anxiety because the anxiety will say, "You know, don't do anything. Just give up, stay in place, stay safe." But if you can go, "Okay, today, I need to make five of those edits to the book. I need to answer my DMs from my customers. I need to finish payroll for the month," whatever it is. Your brain will just be focused on what you need to do for the business today instead of being free to obsess about all of these abstract and terrible possibilities. 

[00:30:38] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I think that's something that really helped me through my business breakdown, breakup, whatever, four years ago, I felt like a blender with the top off where my anxiety was spinning around and it was just making a mess. And I was like, "I can't sleep and I don't know what to do. And then all of these bad things are going to happen." Like we just talked about. And then it was like, "Okay, it's not just about being tough. It's about making a plan." So I decided to game out what I was going to do because what I needed to do was X, Y, and Z. And instead of trying to do it all in one day and being like, "I'm never going to get back there." I was like, "Okay, one foot in front of the other, one to do at a time, one step at a time." And I made spreadsheets and documents of like people I need to call and things I need to do and things I need to get handled. And if we pivot that way, this has got to be in place. And if we pivot this whole. Then I should get these things ready and I need to have all this stuff ready. 

[00:31:23] So I started doing that. And at the end of the day, I was, I don't know, one percent done with everything. And it was like, okay, I still have a lot further to go, but I did all of these things today that got me one percent closer. So I feel good about it. I don't just feel like I'm being tossed around in the seas anymore. Does that make sense? 

[00:31:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. 

[00:31:40] Jordan Harbinger: It was like a laser focus instead of a blender with the top off like I said before, and that felt better and I was able to get frigging sleep and get things done, and here we are now. And it's because of that, you know, that easily could have just spun me out of control and flung me out of orbit, so to speak. 

[00:31:56] My only other advice is to keep looking for the opportunities here. In every crisis, there's always some hidden opportunity. I know this sounds like, you know, crappy Instagram quotes or something, but there is a silver lining on a lot of this stuff. So in your case, I don't know, maybe putting your name in your username instead of the companies, maybe that ends up building your brand even more. Or maybe once you go through this sh*tstorm and you learn how these brands think you start advising other marketers on how to adapt to similar challenges. And before you know it, you have a little consulting business on the side, or maybe you just learn how not to get spooked when a company throws their weight around and you develop a toolkit for managing your anxiety better.

[00:32:34] You know your business better than we do. We'll let you decide what these opportunities are, but they are always there. And when you find them, you got to jump on them because they always end up being the reason you kind of had to go through this sh*tstorm in the first place. So good luck, my friend, we are rooting for you. You will come out stronger on the other side. I know you will because I did. And I see all of it with very clear 20/20 hindsight. 

[00:33:00] Gabe, I was trying to come up with another word for sh*tstorm, but all I could come up with was, was crap tornado, which is not any better at all. You know, another thing this has just occurred to me. If I were her, I would reach out to the marketing people for this brand. And I wouldn't say, "I'm getting sued. Can you help?" because they'll go, "Whoa, not touching that. Call our lawyers or something." 

[00:33:21] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. 

[00:33:21] Jordan Harbinger: You know, you're not getting sued, but a cease and desist — what you should do is reach out to them on Instagram, the official accounts on Twitter, whatever it is, and go, "Hey, I've got an account where I sell recipes and ideas for your brand. Here's what it is. It's got a million followers. I'm wondering if there's any sort of official partnership we can do because I think there's a lot we probably could do. I've been selling a lot of stuff for you guys, and it's all been on the side."

[00:33:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's smart. 

[00:33:45] Jordan Harbinger: Marketing people are probably going to go, "This is wonderful. We've been thinking about doing influencer marketing. You've already got such a great headstart. Yeah, Let's get on a call." And then on the call, you outline what you're doing and you can say, "Hey, by the way, I'm dealing with this kind of like weird issue where the legal has asked me not to do this anymore. And my attorney said that it's fine because it's fair use, but I just wanted to put us on the same page." Because there's a good chance that someone in marketing could go, "Oh yeah, we sent out a lot of those. I'll send a note to legal and you know, now that we're working on this thing together, it's not going to be a problem."

[00:34:20] Legal is always sort of scary even for people inside of the company but it would not hurt you to do something where you get a little initiative going with the company. And then when their lawyers are like, "You're not allowed to do anything with the company." It's like, "Well, my client has already been working with your official Instagram channels to promote these blenders," or whatever they are. And then the lawyer might go, "Okay, let me check with the client. And then they call the marketing person," and they're like, "Oh yeah, she's an influencer. She's working with us." And they're like, "Eh, we have other people to go after who are actually pretending to be us and not working with our marketing department. All good. Don't cross these lines, but otherwise, you're fine." 

[00:34:55] These types of things can often be handled by going through people who are not just billing by the hour, cause their legal departments dealing with a lot of stuff right now. I'm sure if they're a really big company, they probably don't care to go after you. They're just doing some blanket instruction that their chief of counsel told them to do. And you are not the problem. There's probably other people pretending to be the brand and selling counterfeit products that are their problem. And that's what they're concerned about. That's what they should actually be concerned about and a marketing person or somebody in the company that you reach out to and develop a relationship with can help you iron that out from the inside. So I would start doing that as well. 

[00:35:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Love that idea. Great advice. 

[00:35:33] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That is what I would do if I were in your shoes. 

[00:35:36] You know, who won't pay tens of thousands of dollars to have lawyers bully you for absolutely no good reason? The amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back. 

[00:35:47] This episode is sponsored in part by BiOptimizers. The folks at BiOptimizers have released a new and improved formula from Magnesium Breakthrough. They're always doing continued research and improve the magnesium supplement. Magnesium can help improve sleep and energy levels. And it sure gets rid of muscle cramps. When Jen was pregnant, on day she took Magnesium Breakthrough, she didn't have any leg cramps. It was a clear difference for her. The new formula also includes co-factors like B6 and manganese that help with the absorption of magnesium. Magnesium is involved in 80 percent of the body's metabolic reactions at about 75 percent of people are not getting enough. In every bottle of Magnesium Breakthrough, you get seven unique forms of organic full-spectrum magnesium. They recommend taking two capsules right before bed. 

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[00:37:43] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored in part by Nissan. The future will be great, but today is just as incredible. Meet Nissan's most advanced lineup. If you can't get enough adrenaline, there's the all-new 400-HP Nissan Z, or for your off-road adventures, check out the all-terrain Nissan frontier. If you're a more of a spontaneous road trip type of person hop into the Nissan Pathfinder. So let's enjoy the ride. 

[00:38:03] Jen Harbinger: 2023 Ariya and Z are not yet available for purchase. Expected availability this spring for 2023 Z and this fall for 2023 Ariya. 

[00:38:11] Jordan Harbinger: All right. Now back to Feedback Friday.

[00:38:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 16-year-old guy and I tend to make friends with some of the crazies, to say the least. Six months ago, I met a new friend and we became very close. Since then, this person has opened up to me about some extremely personal things, including experiencing sexual assault in their past and having an alcoholic father who beats them. I feel obligated to be there for this person, but I'm going through my own problems right now, including cutting myself, which led my mother to pull me out of school and put me in homeschool. I'm a lot better now, but now I'm trying to remove a lot of negativity from my life. And I realized that one of the main sources might be this person. They're suicidal and I've talked them out of suicide on three different occasions. I understand that they have it a lot worse than me and I should be there for them, but I've stressed and lost a lot of sleep over this. At the same time, I'm their only friend. And I'm genuinely afraid that if I leave, I won't be there to keep them from making the decision to end it all. And I would feel like a coward for backing out. So should I stay in their life and risk my own mental health to be the voice of reason? Or should I call it quits and just cut them off? Signed, the Conflicted Comforter. 

[00:39:23] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah, this is, this is tough. This is how a lot of highly empathic people feel that they want and almost need to be there for people who are struggling, but sometimes that role overwhelms them. It can even take them down too. So a few thoughts, first of all, the reality is you can only be helpful to other people to the extent that you are healthy and stable yourself. It's the whole secure your own mask before assisting others concept. Because if your mind and your body are taking a huge hit, while you keep someone else afloat. In all likelihood, you're not high functioning, you're taking on a lot of other people's pain, and you can't be a good friend when you're in that state.

[00:40:06] But also propping someone else up 24/7, like this as generous as it is, it's never the right approach, long-term. This friend of yours, they are going through a lot and you taking care of them all the time, that might not be helping them get the help that they need to do the work of healing on their own. Now, withdrawing from somebody who's suffering, that is really hard. You don't want to see them hurt. You certainly don't want to feel responsible if they ever did commit suicide or hurt themselves. It's an incredibly difficult spot to be in. But you talking them down all the time, you being there for them at your own expense, I am not sure how much that's ultimately serving them in the bigger picture. Because the truth is, you won't always be available. You can't always be there. And you carrying around this responsibility for their life, which is a very heavy thing to bear, especially at 16 years old, that's not fair or healthy to you. 

[00:41:04] So my advice is to find a new relationship with your friend and with yourself. And that means two things. First, recognizing that at the end of the day, you are not ultimately responsible for this person's wellbeing. It sounds to me like you feel there are only two modes here. Either you risk your mental health to be there for them 24/7 or you call it quits and you cut them off completely but that's exactly the problem. In reality, there's actually a healthy middle ground where you're available to other people and you're not taking on all their stuff, and you're actually taking care of yourself. And the key to that mode is identifying that crucial inner boundary so that you can help this person appropriately without drowning or doing their job for them. 

[00:41:47] And the second thing, helping this person take steps toward finding the help they need to get better on their own. I would start with resources you have at school, a school psychologist, a guidance counselor, a teacher that you trust. These people are trained for situations like this. And I would also help your friend identify one or two people in their family who can help. I know their dad is not a good guy. So I'm hoping mom is a healthier presence and maybe she's the one they turn to. Ultimately, the best thing your friend can do is start talking to a therapist. That would be my end goal if this were my friend. 

[00:42:23] And by the way, in the future, if you feel there's a real chance that this person is going to hurt themselves, I would tell an adult ASAP. And if it's a true emergency, like you're on the phone with them. And they're like, "Eh, I got a bottle of aspirin in my hand. I'm ready to do it," and they're looking to you to talk them down again, I would seriously consider calling the police. I know how intense that is, but if they do hurt themselves, you could save their life. And that could be the wake-up call that they and their parents need to realize that this situation is serious and that they need to step in and do something. 

[00:42:58] Gabriel Mizrahi: So true, Jordan, all of this really can't just fall to him. So while you do all of that, I would also explore what it is that draws you to these people, the crazies as you called them. Because again, it's very sweet that you're so available to your friends. That is an amazing quality. But these relationships with troubled people, people going through a tough time, they're clearly fulfilling some kind of function for you. So what does that function do you think? Does it give you a sense of purpose, a feeling of being needed, or maybe does it distract you from your own problems for a little while? Does it give you a sense of connection? Does it make you feel essential? Does it make you maybe even feel kind of powerful? Because I thought it was interesting when you said, "I'm genuinely afraid that if I leave, I won't be there to keep them from making the decision to end it all. And I would feel like a coward for backing out." 

[00:43:45] That makes me wonder if there's also an identity wrapped up in this role, this caregiving role. That you get to be strong and brave when these friends are weak and afraid, and maybe that feels gratifying and drawing a boundary in the relationship, kind of putting a little bit of a buffer between you and the source of that gratification, maybe that feels like it would make you weak too. So I'm also wondering, you know, like where does this concept of cowardice come from? What is it about prioritizing yourself and letting somebody else do the work that they need to do that makes you feel weak? 

[00:44:18] The irony, Jordan, is that is actually the opposite, right? Losing yourself in a care-taking role, spiraling out because you're trying to prop someone else up. That's the truly disempowering thing. Whereas drawing a line so that you can take care of yourself and be there for other people, that's what makes you effective and powerful. 

[00:44:34] Jordan Harbinger: Great point, Gabe. If I were him, I'd definitely try to figure out how that template got created. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that has something to do with the family he grew up in, possibly even a way of coping with his own mental health challenges. 

[00:44:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I am right there with you because, look, the other thing is that he's cutting himself. Right. And what does mom do when she finds out he's cutting himself. She takes him out of school and puts them in a homeschool. Doesn't ask him why he's cutting. Doesn't try to understand how he's feeling, as far as we can tell. Doesn't take him to therapy, just yanks them out of the environment that she thinks is causing all the problems, which kind of breaks my heart. I mean, I'm not trying to dunk on your mom here. I'm sure she's doing her best with the skills that she has, but I got to say, it sounds like no one's really looking out for you. 

[00:45:18] And so part of me wonder is like, are you offering other people the very thing that you wish you could have, which is someone to just listen to you and to help you process all of this. Is it possible that you're locating in these troubled friends of yours, the same troubles you have, and maybe trying to resolve those issues in them? We tend to do that sometimes. I'm sure there's a psychological term for this that I don't know, but we tend to work our stuff out and other people when we aren't able to do that for ourselves. But that only ends up making you feel worse when you realize that, you know, healing by proxy or whatever, that doesn't actually work. You can only work on this stuff for yourself and in yourself and the same applies to your friend. 

[00:45:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Good point, Gabe. I think that might be exactly what's going on. All of the above really. And I think there's a lot going on in this story. So there you have it man, time to approach your friendships in a new way. And I know we threw a ton at you here and this turned into quite the therapy session. I hope you don't feel bad in any way for not understanding this stuff yet. Look, you're 16. It's totally normal to be figuring this stuff out, but this is how you learn. So keep an eye on these dynamics. Try to find someone to talk to if you can. Help your friend do the same and please take care of yourself. This is a real heavy load and we're sending you good thoughts, man. 

[00:46:35] All right, next up. 

[00:46:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I have a coworker who joined my team around the same time as me was promoted around the same time and holds the same role and job level. There are times I don't get along with this guy, but overall I tolerate him and things between us are okay. Because our company has been growing so much, my manager recently decided to put some managers under him, which means that I will now be reporting to this coworker of mine. I told my manager that I'm fine with it, but the truth is that it's not ideal for me. And I hope to get an opportunity to be a manager under him in the future. I told him I trust him and we'll see how it works out. My manager tells me that I haven't done anything wrong and that this was a hard choice for him, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm being passed up for the opportunity. Not only do I feel like I'm stepping down a level, but I'm reporting to someone who should be my peer and who I haven't gotten along with in the past. I also can't get over the feeling that my manager just isn't trying hard enough for me. Am I overreacting? Should I just play nice or should I raise more of a stink so that I can get moving? Signed, Grouse About Fairness or just Grin and Bear It. 

[00:47:42] Jordan Harbinger: Good question. I get why this is so frustrating for you having to report to somebody you don't like is never fun, but I think you're looking at the situation all wrong. First of all, whether you're happy with this decision or not, this is what is happening. This peer of yours, he got promoted. Your manager wants things this way. So you're much better off going with the flow and finding a way to work with this new arrangement, even if it isn't ideal for you personally, but more importantly, think about what you really want here. You want to be promoted. You want to be a manager. You want your boss to advocate for you to get ahead. If those are your goals, how do you think you're going to achieve them? By being bitter that your coworker got the job and making a stink that you weren't the one who was chosen or by finding a way to shine in this new structure, looking for ways to support your new boss, showing that you're a valuable employee, no matter what the reporting structure is. 

[00:48:37] Because think of this from your manager's perspective, the one who promoted the other guy above you, if you were him, what would you need to see to know that your employee has what it takes to manage a team as well? What would make you want to give someone like you a shot at rising up? I would get very clear on that and then work backward to the goals and behaviors and mindsets that you need to get there. You're over there stewing that your manager isn't trying hard enough for me when really you need to be focused on trying hard enough for yourself. Don't expect this guy's loyalty. Earn his loyalty. So that's my advice. 

[00:49:11] I think in moments like these, you've really got to check your ego. Rather than be resentful of your peer, I would study him a little bit, figure out what he's doing right, why he was chosen this time around. You know, you might be like, "Oh, well, he's a brown-noser," but is that really true? You know, make a genuine effort to be a great colleague to him, not just because he might be in a position to advocate for you in the future, but because that is what a good leader does. Use this setback to identify any gaps in your skills, any weaknesses in your performance, any unhelpful mindsets, then make a conscious effort to work on those, including by the way, this whole should mentality. "He should be my peer. My manager should be trying harder for me." I hear, you know, a little twinge of entitlement in there. I'm not going to lie. And I also hear a tiny bit of the victim identity. That's not going to get you very far, man. That just reinforces this idea that you deserve better. And it lets you off the hook for having to level up and earn it. 

[00:50:10] So my advice, change your lens up here, man. You know put all this negative energy into positive action. If you do that for three, four, five months, and you're still miserable and it becomes clear that your company just isn't willing to reward your hard work and all, okay, then it's fair to get a little tougher with them or go look for a new job, but you have to put in the work first or you're just shortchanging yourself. 

[00:50:33] I also highly recommend checking out the piece I wrote recently about the best way to get promoted. A lot of those strategies are going to be just money for you right now. We'll link to that in the show notes, you can find all the articles at jordanharbinger.com/articles, of course. Look, man, I know you're bummed about this, but like we said, with the woman who got the cease-and-desist letter, there is a hidden opportunity in pretty much every setback. So go look for that. You got this man. Good luck. 

[00:51:00] You know, Gabe, I feel like I was a little hard on him, but at the same time, There was a reason this other guy was chosen, even if it was, you know, neck and neck, but it's really easy to just be like, "This sucks. Everything sucks. I'm out of here. Screw these people," when really it's kind of like adding weight when you're bench pressing, it's like, "Oh, it's heavier. Okay, good. This is going to make me stronger." You know, that's the point. That's the only healthy way to look at this. Otherwise, you're just going to — what? Run from the job every time, something doesn't go your way. This is relatively minor. It's not like he's being bullied or something, right? 

[00:51:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. 

[00:51:30] Jordan Harbinger: But when you're young, this is like the end of the world. Like, "Oh no, I'm not as good as I thought I was. I hate everyone." 

[00:51:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. "What was me? Why aren't people looking out for me? Why don't they have my back?" But all you have to do is switch up the lens to realize that this might be exactly where he needs to be, to figure out what he needs to learn. 

[00:51:44] Jordan Harbinger: Damn straight.

[00:51:45] Alright. Hope y'all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week. And everyone who listens, thank you so much. Don't forget to go back and check out the episodes with Dr. Rachel Zoffness on pain and pain management and Daniel Levitin on misinformation and disinformation. 

[00:51:58] If you want to know how I managed to book all these amazing folks for the show, well, it's about my network and we get a lot of subject matter experts. I mean, all of these people are in my network, in our little orbit here, and I'm teaching you how to build something similar for free check out our Six-Minute Networking course. The course is again for free. It's over on the Thinkific platform at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm teaching you how to build relationships, manage relationships. Dig that well before you get thirsty in just a few minutes per day. jordanharbinger.com/course. 

[00:52:29] A link to the show notes for the episode can be found@jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi. 

[00:52:44] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:53:21] Jillian Jalali: Hi everyone. This is Jillian with Court Junkie. Court Junkie is a true-crime podcast that covers court cases and criminal trials using audio clips and interviews with people close to the cases. Court Junkie is available on apple podcasts and podcastone.com.