607: Dwyane Wade | A Life Bigger Than Basketball

607: Dwyane Wade | A Life Bigger Than Basketball

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Coming up next on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:00:03] Dwyane Wade: You know, sometimes in life, especially when you're young and you're trying to figure out what's the next move, what's the next step, it's confusing. You have so much anxiety. It's scary to take that next step, when you leave high school and you go to college or you leave college, whatever that next step is in your life. And I'm at a place that I know most people have not been in my community and in my family. So I'm here for a reason. Let me just put this work in and let me just keep going until somebody tap me on my shoulder and say, "Yo, you don't supposed to be in here."

[00:00:31] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We have in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, astronauts, entrepreneurs, spies, and psychologists, even the occasional national security advisor, Fortune 500 CEO, or organized crime figure. Each episode turns our guests' wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. 

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[00:01:21] Today on the show, NBA superstar, Dwayne Wade. Y'all know I'm allergic to sports for the most part. So instead of spending the whole time on that, we dive deep into parenting, being a role model, personal responsibility, achievement, and leading by example. Now Dwayne has had a rough upbringing, much like Metta World Peace, who was on the show a few weeks back. Taking some lessons from the court, he built an empire, but most importantly, he raised well-adjusted kids and kept his family together and, of course, kept a good head on his shoulders pretty much the entire time. Now, if you're not into sports or basketball, and even if you don't have kids of your own, I think this was an interesting conversation that you'll enjoy and in which you'll find value.

[00:01:57] If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, creators, and performers every single week. It's because of my network. And I'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at jordanharbinger.com/course. This course is about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring others to develop a personal and professional connection with you. It'll make you a better networker, a better connector, and a better thinker. That's at jordanharbinger.com/course. And most of the guests you hear on the show, they subscribe and contribute to the course. So come join us, you'll be in smart company. 

[00:02:28] Now, here's Dwayne Wade. 

[00:02:31] I've heard you say, "If I never had a moment where I didn't want to give up, it means I didn't work hard enough." So you're constantly pushing. And I'm wondering if you instill that in your kids as well. Like, do you push your kids to that sort of same level of intensity? 

[00:02:47] Dwyane Wade: That's a great question. I don't want to use the word push, necessarily. 

[00:02:52] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. 

[00:02:52] Dwyane Wade: I try to integrate some of the things that has worked for me in life, into my kids. Mentality, you know, when they're trying to send out to accomplish something and whatever that is. I'm trying to just give them ways to think about it. I don't want to push them to do things. I want them to want to do these things. And a lot of it comes when it, when someone pushes you, some time you walk away, you'd be like, "I'm so glad my dad pushed me to do that," because — I don't want them to look at it as push. I want them to say, "I'm so glad that I had the opportunity. I'm glad that my dad and my mom and my stepmom, I'm glad that they presented this opportunity to me and gave me all the reasons why I should do this," more so than he pushed me to do this. 

[00:03:33] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That makes sense. I suppose, there's a limit. How do you know the limit of what you can — I almost had used the word push again. How can you have a limit of what you can sort of introduce it to your kids and encourage—? I guess the limit is, you know, how do you know when you're pushing and when you're like, "Look, I'm just presenting this to you in a way to encourage you." And then, how do you know when to back off, I guess? Because reading your book, your dad was kind of like, "I'm just going to make you bleed on the court. Maybe not the same way you want to do things with your own kids. 

[00:04:00] Dwyane Wade: Yeah, yeah, I guess from the reaction. If you know your kid's good enough, you know when the reaction is at a place where they're going to receive it. And you also know if it's at a place where they need to hear and they may not want to hear it at this moment. And then also, you know, when it's like, they're not hearing you at all. But I always say that my father did push, you know, my father did make me do things that I didn't want to do, but he had to, because our situation was totally different than my kids and our family situation. That's the privilege that I have, my wife had, and that privilege has come from my hard work. I'm not saying nothing about it, but that's a privilege that we have that my parents did not have.

[00:04:39] And so my dad pushed me because my dad needed some help with these bills, but, you know, my daddy needed — he was like, "I had all these boys, I need one of y'all to help us, you know, change the course of where our life has been going as a family," right? And so he pushed me because of that. My wife and I, we don't have to push our kids in that same way, even though we want them to go off and get their own and have their own, because what we have is not enough for the entire family. Like we need more. 

[00:05:06] Jordan Harbinger: You said crashing into the car — you wrote this in the newest book, "Crashing to the concrete playing with my dad when I was younger, seeing blood on the pavement, but understanding that what I obsessed over was on the other side of pain." So look, that sounds intense by any measure, the kind of thing that like with the wrong kid could damage your relationship with your kids if you end up doing that, like with the wrong kid, like you took to it. But a lot of kids might be like, "Yeah, my dad just kept driving me until he tried to make me into something that I'm not."

[00:05:32] And you do a really good job of not doing that. I noticed in the ESPN documentary about you, one of your boys got the nickname, Young Flash and you were like, "Wait. Hold on. I'm the Flash in the NBA. You need your own nickname. You're your own self. You're not a young version of me." 

[00:05:46] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. 

[00:05:47] Jordan Harbinger: That's good parenting, man. Like, is that something you consciously cultivate? It seems like a healthy thing to encourage him to develop his own identity. So he's not living in dad's shadow who's an NBA superstar. Like those are too big of shoes to fill. It could damage your relationship with your kid if you put them under that pressure, if it's the wrong kid, like you took to it naturally, or through brute force method but not all kids are going to do that. 

[00:06:12] Dwyane Wade: Well, it did damage my relationship with my father. I think now at 39 years old, my father and I, our relationship is probably at a place where we're both happy with it. That's the day, but it took a long time to get here. Some people on the outside looking in would be like, "Well, I'll take a couple of years of not being on the same page if I'm going to be able to push you to the success that your dad helped you get to," right? But I just feel like it's definitely not one way. There's so many ways to do this. There's so many ways to live life. There's so many ways to be. And so this is just my approach. This is just my way, this is my wife's approach and our way.

[00:06:47] With Zaire, I remember that. He went to the Miami Pro League and they would just call him Young Flash, Young Flash. And as proud of a dad I am to have a son that loves the same sport, the pressure to call him something like Young Flash is, that's not for him. He doesn't need that pressure. He has enough, especially when we can control it. And so we were just sitting at home and I was like, "You know what, Z? You got to come up like, yes, you are a product of the way, bloodline and family that you can't run from. You should not want to run from it. There's some greatness in that. So let's come up with your own thing." And YNG DNA became that thing. And so I loved the fact that he loved that. I loved the fact that he's taken YNG DNA and has made that a brand. He's 16 years old, he's had his own brand. And so he's learning how to be a great businessman at a very young age. So, but yeah, my dad and I, our relationship was damaged because of that. 

[00:07:36] Jordan Harbinger: It almost seems inevitable. And I think it's great, you're teaching your kids the business angle of it because a lot of people would just focus on the sport. I mean, anytime you turn on ESPN at one o'clock in the morning, because you can't sleep, there's a documentary about an athlete that had $50 million and is now broke and like works at a used car dealership because they just didn't get it. And nobody taught it to them and they grew maybe like you did on the South Side, Chicago where it's like, "Well, if I have money, I better spend it because it's going to be gone soon. Or I don't know what to do with it. That I didn't grow up with a bank account," you know, that kind of thing. And it's tragic to see that. So it's good that you're instilling that in your kids. 

[00:08:10] You say that there's lessons from the court that will last forever. "Be committed, be the hardest worker, lead by example, adjust on the fly, take responsibility, stay hungry, stay focused, either be great or be forgotten. Only one of those was an option for me." And that's a high level of commitment and intensity. I'm wondering if you think you were kind of born with some of that or if that was cultivated in you, by your parents and like, was it in your environment, nature or nurture, I guess is what I'm trying to ask. 

[00:08:36] Dwyane Wade: I think some of it, Jordan. Some of it I was born with. Some of it I've had to learn. Some of it I've had to. I've learned a lot from so many people in my life. I get obviously the credit because I'm the one speaking and this is my name and my face, but there's so many people along my journey and every opportunity that I've had to thank those individuals. What is my Jersey retirement? What is the speech at, any bank would I've ever been to? What is my book or whatever? I've always tried to thank the people that have helped me understand these lessons that I've learned in life. And there's been so, so, so many. I'm just super blessed. 

[00:09:13] And to go back to what we talked about before is, sports is business. There's no separation. When I came in, I tried to separate. I was like, "I'm going to focus on sports and you focus on my business." And then I don't know what's going on with my business, and so sports is business. You know, when you get traded, that's a business thing. You know what I mean? And so I'm just trying to teach my son that sports is business, but sports is also like life. Those lessons and the things I talked about in my book, those are the same things that I take into my regular life now that I'm not a superhero on the court anymore. Itake those same elements to this life. 

[00:09:49] Jordan Harbinger: Do you think your environment growing up motivated you in a way to work hard so you could get some escape velocity? South Side, Chicago is no joke. And you wrote, "Between seeing what crack cocaine did to the hood, the violence in the streets, and dealing with the police, everyone who lived there grew up quick, we had no choice." Some of the stories in the book, man, like finding a dead body in a trash can, which was, I think a kid about your age, you saw some shoes sticking out and thought like, "Oh man, I'm going to get those free shoes.' And then you realize there's like legs attached to the shoes. I mean, that's not a normal childhood environment. 

[00:10:20] Dwyane Wade: It was normal for my childhood. It was normal for what I'd seen. And that's the unfortunate part of all of this. Everything that's going on in the world that should not be normal for any child. At nine years old, a child should not have the burden of taking care of his family. He did not have that burden, but here we are, you're presented with it. And so there's nothing else that you can do. You adapt or you don't, right? And so for me, I had to learn how to adapt. I had a lot of family members that protected me. I grew up in that gang-infested, drug-infested world in Chicago. In the '80s and '90s, it was heavy, you know, drugs and crack cocaine and, you know, dope, like that was heavy. And so you either become a part of it or you become something. 

[00:11:05] And I want it to become something else. It's simply that. I didn't know what it was going to be, how it was going to be. I just know that that didn't look right. That wasn't for me. That wasn't what I felt I was on this earth to do, what I wanted to do. Yeah, man, I don't know if I got off topic at all, but you know, just whenever you ask questions about my childhood, it just takes me back to places that a lot of dark, but a lot are not as the same time because of my childhood, because of my journey, because of each individual I've seen out there, it gave me the foresight to insight to want to become something better. 

[00:11:39] This book, I always talk about this as a book of imagery, because I want to become an imagery for a young kid that's growing up in the city of Chicago that needs someone to look at. And it's not saying that you have to become just like me, but you at least need to have an imagery, an image of someone or something. And that's what this book provides. 

[00:11:56] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's like you want to become a role model, sort of at scale, right? Not just to your own kids, but to other people out there who maybe only saw you play basketball and don't have a three-dimensional view of who you are. "Growing up and saying some nights I didn't eat, you know, and then having kids at age 20." I assume not wanting your own kids to feel that kind of the lack of what you had growing up, that's got to be a strong motivator as well, huh? 

[00:12:17] Dwyane Wade: It definitely was. Zaire, when I go on a record, I always talk about Zaire being my why. You know, sometimes in life, you know, especially when you're young and you're trying to figure out what's the next move, what's the next step, it's confusing. You have so much anxiety. It's scary to take that next step. When you leave high school and you go to college or you leave college and whatever that next step is in your life, and I didn't know, I was confused. You know, I went through the steps and eventually once I had my son, that was my reason. That was my why, you know, because I did not want to see him grow up the same way that I grew up. My dad grew up, his dad grew up, his dad grew up. You know, I wanted to be a part of shifting the way that the waves have been known to be. 

[00:12:59] And I felt that by being in high school and being a good basketball player, that was cool. But once I was able to go to college and I was like, "Well, I'm at a place that I know most people have not been in my community and in my family. So I'm here for a reason. Let me just put this work in and let me just keep going until somebody tap me on my shoulder and say, "Yo, you don't supposed to be in here." You know what I'm saying? Like an imposter. I felt like an imposter. You know what I mean? 

[00:13:23] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:13:23] Dwyane Wade: I'm like I was supposed to be here, but I'm moving with the crowd. And then eventually I kept moving with the crowd to eventually I was in front of crowds and I would start standing out. And so, you know, to be able to try to showcase that into your son, into your daughter, into your children, that's everything. But to be able to do that for other kids, that you may never meet, some you may meet. You know that right there, that's called legacy. 

[00:13:46] Jordan Harbinger: It's interesting that even you had imposter syndrome. I love highlighting this because a lot of people are starting their first job or whatever, and they're like, "They're going to figure out I'm a fraud and I don't belong here." And I'm like, "Listen to this episode with Dwayne Wade, who said, I felt like a fraud at Marquette when I'm about to go into the NBA and be one of top players to ever play the game." And you're still like, "Someone's going to tap me on the shoulder and be like, 'What are you doing here? Get out of here, go back to South Side, Chicago." 

[00:14:09] Dwyane Wade: I still think that, Jordan. Paranoid a lot of times. I'm like someone is going to tap me on the side and be like, "Bro, come here. How you get that far?" You know what I'm saying? 

[00:14:16] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. What are you doing at my house?

[00:14:19] When I look at your book, which we'll link in the show notes, you wrote that your mother at this one point in time had been released from jail just in time to see your final game at Marquette. And she hadn't been able to see you play basketball since you were young. Was she mostly absent then from your childhood? I know she spent some time incarcerated and some time, I guess, as a fugitive, because she didn't want to go back to jail and things like that. I'm wondering if she was largely absent. And then also, was it a bit of a head trip for you starting like a wine brand when addiction has had such a negative effect on your childhood growing up with both parents, having some issues with it? 

[00:14:51] Dwyane Wade: Yeah, great question, man. Yeah, my mom was in and out of my life early on. She was living her own life. She was trying to figure it out. She was taking some bad steps along the way. And in the midst of that, you know, it took a while to come back a lot of times, but eventually, she was in and out of prison when I was between the ages of five and nine years old. But the moments that I have with my mom, those moments were always, they were just so powerful. My mom would take me to the basketball court and we'd sit there for hours until the court opened up for me to get out on the court and finally play because the big boys had the court and you couldn't get on there until it was over. Like, I have so many great moments with her, but she was in and out.

[00:15:29] And then once I got my dad took custody at nine years old, my mom was still, she was still in, what she called her madness and she was still in and out of my life. So that moment, that game, like I was getting to know my mother over notes. I was writing notes to my mother while I was in school and then like wait two weeks when she was able to, if it got to her in prison, and then waited two weeks for her to respond. And that's how we responded. Like I told her, I had a son over a letter. And so that game— 

[00:15:55] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. 

[00:15:56] Dwyane Wade: —it wasn't just to come and see me play, that was the first time she met Zaire. I was going through so much that day, emotionally. It was a conference championship. My mom was coming to see me play. She was coming to meet Zaire. He was going to meet — there was just so much going on, man. 

[00:16:08] Jordan Harbinger: That could have affected your game negatively. But I guess it didn't. 

[00:16:10] Dwyane Wade: No it didn't. 

[00:16:11] Jordan Harbinger: That seems like, yeah, it's a bit much. Was it a bit of a head trip for you starting that wine brand then knowing like, "Okay. My parents have had issues with alcohol. Do I want to get into this industry and be around it all the time? Is that healthy?" 

[00:16:23] Dwyane Wade: It was. It took me, Jordan — I had my first drink around 27, 28 years old. I can't remember exactly, but it took me a while to even indulge in any adult beverage, indulge in anything because of the strong addictions of my parents, of what I've seen as addictions from my parents in this space. And then eventually once I got a chance to, I guess, get a look behind the curtains in a wine, I realized that, you know, it wasn't what — I didn't even know what it was, first of all, I didn't grow up in. You know, it wasn't accessible to me and it was nothing I knew about. 

[00:16:55] Jordan Harbinger: No. 

[00:16:55] Dwyane Wade: But once I did go behind the curtain, I realized that it wasn't what I thought it was, probably with most people. You know, the beauty in it, the beauty in these grapes turning into this beautiful thing we call wine. It's kind of poetic. I started to love the process of wine. I started to love, you know, going out and experiencing it with people and things like that. But I did come out with a Budweiser. We did come out with a drink called Bud Zero. And in mind, my mom was in mind and my dad was in mind. As you know, they have moved away from drinking alcohol, especially my father. And I wanted to kind of create something as well and be a part of this nutrient of something that my parents could also enjoy. That is a big hit in my household, always, but is zero as well. 

[00:17:38] Jordan Harbinger: You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Dwayne Wade. We'll be right back. 

[00:17:42] This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help online therapy. We talk about Better Help a lot on the show. This month, we're discussing some of the stigmas around mental health, and there are plenty. We've been taught that mental health shouldn't be a part of normal life, but that's wrong as well. We take care of our bodies at the gym. We go to the doctor, we take care of our nutrition, some of the time. We should be focusing on our minds just as much. And many people think that therapies for insane people, therapy doesn't mean something is wrong with you. It means you recognize that all humans have emotions. You need to learn how to manage and control them. Not just. Better Help is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, even live chat sessions with your therapist. You don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to, it's much more affordable than in-person therapy, and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Give it a try and see why over two million people have used Better Help online therapy. 

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[00:18:39] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Magic Spoon. Growing up cereal was one of the best parts of being a kid, but of course, later on, I had to give it up. I realized it was full of sugar and junk that you really shouldn't eat, especially first thing in the morning, zero grams of sugar, 13 to 14 grams of protein in cereal, only four net grams of carbs in each serving, only 140 calories in a serving it's keto friendly, gluten-free, grain-free, soy-free, all that low carb stuff for all your hippies out there. And the variety pack has four flavors, cocoa, fruity, frosted, and peanut butter, pretty self-explanatory. I would recommend mixing cocoa with peanut butter. It tastes like a peanut butter cup. My mom would not approve of that. She would never let me get that kind of cereal growing up, obviously. So it's as satisfying as a dessert, in my humble opinion. 

[00:19:20] Jen Harbinger: Go to magispoon.com/jordan to grab a variety pack and try it today. And be sure to use our promo code JORDAN at checkout to save $5 off your order. And Magic Spoon is so confident in their product, it's backed with a hundred percent happiness guarantee. So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll refund your money. No questions asked. Remember, get your next delicious bowl of guilt-free cereal at magicspoon.com/jordan and use code JORDAN to say $5 off. 

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[00:20:11] Now back to Dwayne Wade. 

[00:20:15] That isn't just for athletes, I suppose. It's also for people who want to just sort of wean themselves off of the actual psychological implications thereof, I suppose. I don't know much about it. I guess, you had a super tough custody battle that got really nasty and ended up with you getting full custody of your children after a really long and protracted battle. We don't have to go into that because you've written about it before. But during this time, you were playing some of your best basketball, according to pretty much everyone. I'm wondering if some of the energy on the court came from frankly, anger and frustration stemming from what's happening off the court. You know, you got to fly to Chicago and fly back and deal with all this frankly bullsh*t legal stuff.

[00:20:52] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. 

[00:20:52] Jordan Harbinger: And then you come back and it's like, you can slam that right into the net. Was that a factor for you? Was that an ingredient at that time? 

[00:21:00] Dwyane Wade: Yeah, Jordan, that was a big factor. I think about all the people who go through those traumatic moments and dramatic moments and all that, and they don't have that same outlet. So where does it go? You know, I took that anger and that rage and that confusion or disappointment or whatever I was going through, and I put it into the game of basketball. And I was able to channel it the right way, because some people can channel with the wrong one. And I was able to channel it the right way and make it work for me, but it wasn't no different than what I dealt with growing up.

[00:21:28] So, you know, I've always been able to channel or compartmentalize and focus on the task at hand. That is something that's very important. You know, when I think about retiring, that was one thing that came to mind. I was like, "What am I going to do when the rage and anger come, when a disappointment come on, where am I going to have this outlet?" And that's why immediately, when I retired, I went to therapy. 

[00:21:48] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. I think that's really wise actually, because that stuff can always sort of crop up like a decade later and start boiling up in other parts of your life. I'm sure your therapist discussed that with you and it can really sort of sneak up on you in a way.

[00:22:02] Dwyane Wade: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So it was something that — I think Udonis came out and spoke about this recently, the stigma on athletes seeking help and how you know it's deemed as these were soft. And that was how it was perceived. And so being able to grow up and become an adult in the NBA, you realize eventually once you have other teammates that are adults and they go through things and now they're doing therapy and you realize that it's not that way, it becomes different, but yeah, it was not something that I ever thought that I needed, but I needed it. And I still need it and there's times where you get so busy and you don't have it, but I will be checking back. I need to check back into it because it's easy to lose yourself out here in this world. And sometimes you need someone to help you sit down, bring it all back to, you know, what's important.

[00:22:50] Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. I wonder if you have any advice for people who need to channel their anger and frustration in a way that helps their performance, or at least in a way that's not destructive. Because that's that sort of drama trauma, off the court, that could have easily derailed you and made your game a mess, right? But it didn't, it had the opposite effect. So I'm wondering if you have any advice for people who are going through it and are like, "This is just ruining my life. What do I do?" 

[00:23:13] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. I mean, this is a part of my parenting with my son as he goes, try to go through his journey. He's going through everything mentally and physically that he's going through trying to become a pro, doing it under the light of the Wade name and all of the things, right? And so I don't know if it's advice that I'll be like, "Oh, yeah, you should live by this," because I don't like telling people what they should do and how they should. I just try to share my experiences and how I personally have dealt with it. And that's what I've been trying to do more for than giving out, "Hey, this is what you take when you get a headache." Like I don't have that. I just have personal experiences that I use as examples. 

[00:23:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Now, this makes sense. Illustrating by example. And you do talk about this when you discuss parenting, right? Leading by example. And even when you left Miami, I think it was because you weren't being paid what you were worth. A lot of people were like, "What are you talking about? You're making like $20 million a year. What are you crying about?" But when you explained it, I heard this on a podcast, it was less about the dollar amount and more about actual respect and the appearance of being valued or not being valued. And it seems like you go through this calculation a lot, like, "All right, what are my kids going to think of this action that I'm taking? How would they view this?" You said you wanted to raise kids who know their worth, "And are better than I ever could be," which is, that's great. That's a high bar as well.

[00:24:31] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. That's always a part of my process. I'm on record saying that, "As great of a basketball player that I was, I feel that my greatest responsibility is being a father," and not in a sense that I'm going to do everything right, because you also learn from mistakes. I teach my kids a lot from my mistakes and I will continue to teach my grandkids because you will continue to make them. You don't want to make them less and less, but you know, that is something that is important. I just try once again, it's — like Udonis Haslem, my former teammate. He's 42 years old. He got in the game last night and I heard his press conference afterwards. You got to block. You got to bucket. He did all these things. And what he said is, "I have a job to do. I don't want people to just root for me because I'm getting the game. When I get in, I have a responsibility and I have a job. And my job is to take charge, my job is to rebound, my job is to X, Y, and Z.

[00:25:23] And so as a parent, I have a job to do. And I try not to allow anything to get in the way of my job and as hard as it is to be a motivator, to be a supporter, and a provider, all these things, ultimately, my most important role in this world will be how I'm able to give my kids everything that they need from me to be able to be their best selves and to be able to have the opportunities to life that they deserve to have.

[00:25:51] Jordan Harbinger: I know that you have used to call it — I don't know if you still call it this, man time and man talks, if not, probably some father-daughter time and talks as well, right? 

[00:25:59] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. 

[00:25:59] Jordan Harbinger: That's important. I think a lot of people don't realize this. They just sort of like go through life as parenting and just going and being present, but they don't sit down and maybe have like one-on-one time and be like, "Okay. Real stuff right now." 

[00:26:10] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. 

[00:26:11] Jordan Harbinger: Not just joking around. Where did you get that idea and how do you guide those conversations? Like how do I do this with my kids? 

[00:26:17] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. I think just going through my custody battle, pulling your kids through that, it sucks America and everybody else is listening. It sucks what the kids have to go through, the fight between parents. And whatever that fight is, it makes no sense ultimately at the end of the day. So going through my custody battle, I realized I had to do things differently. I was getting my kids just on the weekends and stuff like that. And you can't really be a parent in two days. It's hard. And so I was like, okay, let me find my way. I wasn't with them every day. My career, my job takes me away from my kids all the time. So when are you going to get to know them? I hated it, Jordan. I hated coming home, or I hate to see my kids and I got to talk to them about being absent or a bad grade or something they did at home. Something they did at their mom's house. And I got to come in and be the one that is supposed to be the punisher and whatever it is, right? 

[00:27:03] And so what I want us to do is I want to give them something that they can look forward to and know that it's a safe space with me. We started these, we did journals for a while. We did, let's go on dates for a while. And so now I've changed the name to, you know, when I go out with Zaya, I call it Zaya's world. "I'm in your world. Where you want to go, what you want to do?" Because it's important for me as your parent to continue to get to know you as you continue to grow, because you will be different from me. You will see the world different from me. You are living in a different world than I grew up in. There's no way I know everything. And so I go on to Zaya's world a lot. I go in his Zaya's world all the time and that's how I approach it. 

[00:27:39] Jordan Harbinger: Zaya's world is a little bit complicated. I know you've talked about this before in the media. She came out to you as I think at first gay and then later transgender. And that's hard for kids to go through, let alone, when it ends up on freaking like TMZ or whatever, right? 

[00:27:54] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. 

[00:27:54] Jordan Harbinger: And she came out super early, right? Was it like eight years old? Or did I misunderstand that?

[00:27:58] Dwyane Wade: She was eight. We were living in Chicago when she came home.

[00:28:02] Jordan Harbinger: How does that happen, practically? Because a lot of people are going to be like, "What eight? That doesn't make any sense," but it is a kind of an interesting story. 

[00:28:08] Dwyane Wade: It amazes me when people say stuff like that, because Jordan, I think around, I knew very early that I like girls. I was chasing them and I was running from them and I was fighting for them because I liked them. I knew very early as a young boy who I liked. So there's things about yourself that you know, that people don't know. And sometimes you don't know how to articulate that. Sometimes it's not the most popular thing. And so you keep it inside and it's unfortunate, right? It's very unfortunate. 

[00:28:31] So in Zaya's case, yeah. We talked about it. She came home at eight years old. It wasn't like she came home and she was very confident and easy going. I tell her that this was something that was, it was pain and watching my child come out and tell me that she was gay. And I later came to find out that she was just hitting me with a soft blow. She knew at eight years old that she wasn't just gay. She was just hitting me with a soft blow. And as she still was learning, then she was able to come home and give us more context and then really get to the space of finding the answer and what that language and what that term was. But then she came home at 12 and was like, "Okay, I got it. Now I'm ready."

[00:29:07] And so I think the thing that I love and I appreciate most about Zaya is, this is not just all Zaya is. Zaya is more than just a trans girl. You know what I mean? And I love the fact that she's now out comfortably exploring life and living life. And it's hard as I'm sure it is for her. I cannot imagine how hard it is for people to comment on, you know, how you should feel and how you should be— 

[00:29:33] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:29:33] Dwyane Wade: —what you should do and what you shouldn't. I can't imagine at 14 years old, but she's doing it so gracefully. She's been a straight-A student since she's walked in school and that continues. She's like every other 14-year-old kid, Jordan. She's trying to find friends. She's trying to find people alike to go through life with. And so, you know, I just want people to know that as the eyes, more than just a trans girl. She's a beautiful young lady who has so many talents and can really do anything she wants.

[00:30:02] Jordan Harbinger: I love hearing the pride in your voice. I will say that finding that out has to be a trial by fire fatherhood moment for you in the family. Like you could really screw that up if you're not careful. If it's me, I'm on Google, I'm calling up professionals. Like how do I do this without screwing it up or saying something dumb by accident and making her mad at me for like five years?

[00:30:22] Dwyane Wade: That was us, Jordan. 

[00:30:22] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:30:23] Dwyane Wade: I mean, I literally sent Zaya a voice note last night and I sent her the interviews when I went out. I just left New York on my book tour. And a lot of Zaya questions came up and every interview that I had I sent it to her. Because I want her to know I'm out right now and speaking on her behalf, but also want her to know if I'm saying anything wrong. If I'm not getting something right. If you are growing in a space and you have evolved in this space, and we don't know about it. Help me along this journey. And some people look at it, like, why would you want help from your kids? Well, my kids are humans. Our kids are, we'll be adults very soon. Like it happens like this.

[00:30:56] And so I understand, like they're going to run this family one day. You understand? They're going to have the ability to put you in that home one day. And so for me, my wife and I, we really try to teach our kids and treat them at the right times along this way. We try to teach them how it is to be looked at, thought of, approached as human beings and not looked at as, "Hey, you're just a kid, you have no say, shut up." And that's kind of the way that a lot of us grew up. 

[00:31:26] Jordan Harbinger: I think so. Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. I've heard that as amazing as your life is now, you try and go back and revisit some of the hardest times in your life, in your head so that you can take lessons from them. How do you do that at a practical level? Is that done with your therapist? Is that done with your wife? You know, how do you do—? I think that's a valuable practice for everyone. I'd love to hear how you actually go about it. 

[00:31:48] Dwyane Wade: I think there's so many ways, definitely. You sit on your therapist couch for two hours. I mean, when I first went in, I was thinking like, "I have nothing to say." And then two hours later, I was just like, "Yeah. And when I was three—" like I still was going. I haven't even got to 37 or 38 years yet. I was still at three years old, right? So there's so many moments. My wife, of course, you know, those are some of the most intimate, most vulnerable moments that I would have, is with my wife. There's still so many ways. There's so many people once again to help you be who you are. You know what I mean? And so I'm thankful for meditation. I'm thankful for my wife. I'm thankful for my wine company, and moments when I needed it. Like I'm thankful for all the things that kind of helped me be able to continue this process. 

[00:32:33] But going back to the book, it is the moments where I look at photos that helped me as well. I talked about this on my tour. I look at the photo in the first quarter of my book of the photo from the apartment building that I grew up in on 59th and Prairie. And I cannot look at that photo and not think about growing up in that apartment and growing up on that block. Everything that we went through and everything that I promised and said I wanted to do if I ever got a chance to get out of that madness. And I did. And so, yeah, there's so many moments that bring you back. 

[00:33:07] Jordan Harbinger: This is The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Dwayne Wade. We'll be right. 

[00:33:12] This episode is sponsored in part by Progressive. Progressive helps you get a great rate on car insurance, even if it's not with them. They have this nifty comparison tool that puts the rates side by side, so you choose a rate and coverage that works for you. So let's say you're interested in lowering your rate on your car insurance, visit progressive.com to get a quote with all the coverage you want. You'll see Progressive's rate. And then they're tool will provide options from other companies, all lined up and easy to compare. So all you have to do is choose the rate and coverages you like. Progressive gives you options so you can make the best choice for you. You could be looking forward to saving money in the very near future. More money for say a pair of noise-canceling headphones, an Instapot, more puzzles, whatever brings you joy. Get a quote today at progressive.com. It's one small step you can do today that'll make a big impact on your budget tomorrow. 

[00:33:55] Jen Harbinger: Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, comparison rates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. 

[00:34:02] Jordan Harbinger: And now for the rest of my conversation with Dwayne Wade. 

[00:34:07] What did you think when you heard Jay-Z's Empire State of Mind? And he said, "If Jeezy's paying LeBron, I'm paying Dwyane Wade." Like, did you know that was coming? 

[00:34:15] Dwyane Wade: My mom made it. No, I did not. No, I did not. I was just like this, "I made it." My favorite artist said my name and the song. It's over. And it was a huge song with Alicia Keys. Like it was crazy now. And I remember getting a chance, Jordan, to talk to Jay-Z about it. And I was like, "Jay, when you're putting together, like your art, like what makes you think of me? Like how do I come and be a part of your art." And Jay is just so smart, man. He's just so, he understands and he gets it, right? And he was just like, "Man, it's relevancy. I'm tying myself to your relevancy." You know what I'm saying? As he's tying me to his. And then when he said, "You know we're popping. We're the victory at the time, you know, we're the Helios," and so I understood the things that he was saying around the time when it was Watch the Throne, when him and Kanye decided to throw me and LeBron in there as well. It's being connected to people who are doing things, people who have a fan base and who are relevant and so forth and so on. That was one of the coolest moments for me because when I came in the league, Jordan, I was just like, I just need Jay-Z to put me in his song. I just need somebody to put me in a song. And like, I've been in other songs, but your favorite artists puts you in a song. I mean, that hits different. 

[00:35:30] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, for sure. Look, what does that even mean though? "If Jeezy's paying LeBron, I'm paying Dwyane Wade." Like what does that mean? I looked it up. Nobody seems to know. Do you have any insight as to what he's talking about? 

[00:35:39] Dwyane Wade: Jordan, I think it's a street reference. 

[00:35:42] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. That's a good way to put it. I'll have to do further Googling and research on that. 

[00:35:48] Dwyane Wade: If you want to go take a walk though 59th and Prairie with me, I think it's probably just the street reference, you know? 

[00:35:55] Jordan Harbinger: Got it. Okay. I was wondering if you're going to be like, "I don't know either," but now I just feel like there's a joke that I'm not getting and I have to ask somebody who gets it. 

[00:36:04] Dwyane Wade: I really don't know. Jay-Z has never told me. It's just, you know— 

[00:36:07] Jordan Harbinger: Oh okay. 

[00:36:08] Dwyane Wade: I've never really asked, but you try to put the context clues together because of Jeezy song. 

[00:36:13] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:36:13] Dwyane Wade: I go back and listen to Jeezy song and I'm like, "Hmm, okay, Jeezy's talking some street stuff." And then I come back and listen to Jay-Z and so to me I'm like, "Okay, that's street talk. You know, I get it. 

[00:36:25] Jordan Harbinger: Well, if I ever get a chance to ask him, I'll put his feet to the fire on this particular line. I don't know. 

[00:36:30] Dwyane Wade: Please do. 

[00:36:31] Jordan Harbinger: Who's your kids' favorite basketball players, LeBron James? 

[00:36:33] Dwyane Wade: I think when it comes to Zaire, he just had continued to evolve because as he see more people that have similar games or similar height. You know, when he was young, it was Kobe Bryant. Then it was obviously Uncle LeBron. I was actually in the top five somewhere. 

[00:36:50] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. You made the top five. 

[00:36:51] Dwyane Wade: Yeah, I made it to the top five. 

[00:36:52] Jordan Harbinger: That's impressive. 

[00:36:53] Dwyane Wade: And now that he's playing basketball, he's starting to look at guys that have similar games like Brandon Jennings, right? A leftie guy who kind of got the same body frame, got the same quickness, and explosion or whatever. So now, I can't say he has a favorite player. I'm sure Uncle Kobe is still his favorite player of all time. Now, he's looking at players and saying, he's trying to identify with other players and learn from them. Same way I identify with Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson, and I learned from them. 

[00:37:21] Jordan Harbinger: You send in your book, "I've said it before. I've said it a million times. I love basketball with all my heart. What has given to me is a piece of my soul, but I've also worked extremely hard never to let it completely define who I am. Happiness for me never came from just one source. I've gotten the chance to meet so many people from so many walks of life. And impact them in ways that didn't always matter if I led the league in scoring, or if we finished the top of the Eastern Conference. I'm proud of being Dwayne Wade, the three-time champion or Olympic gold medalist. But I'm not just that I never will be." Why is it so, or was it so important to you to keep an identity separate from the game? Which by the way, is super healthy. A lot of people, especially men, for some reason, don't really even know who they are outside of their career. 

[00:38:02] Dwyane Wade: Yeah. I mean, for most of my career, I guess, I didn't know that either, but you know, one thing that would bring you right back down to reality is injuries. I had injuries that could have derailed my career that I possibly almost did not come back from. You know, thank you to Tim Grover. We talk about Tim Grover. 

[00:38:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:38:18] Dwyane Wade: He brought me back from one of the worst injuries for my shoulder, knee injury in 2008. So that's the lowest point. You know, I remember looking at, I remember being in like restaurants that had TVs or being at home and people were talking about it was over for me. And I can't say that it wasn't a moment that it didn't cross my mind, but in the midst of me saying, "I'm going to do whatever I can and make sure I get back," at the same time, that's when I was like, "Yo, this could end at any moment." You know, when you get drafted, you see your whole life in front of you like, "I'm going to play forever." Then you have major injuries. You're like, "Hold on. This can be over." 

[00:38:50] And so I believe at that point in my life, I started to take business a little bit more seriously. I started to want to know a little bit more about the other side and not just the sports side. And I was like, "You know what? This can't be the only thing to define me because this can end and I can't control it." And so knowing that you have the rest of your life, if you play a long career, LeBron James is going to play, playing one of the longest careers we've seen. He's been in his prime for 18, 19 years. At some point, the game will end and he will have the rest of his life ahead of him as well. There's so much more life and so you can't just be one thing, you know, as much as the world wants us to be just athletes, they want us to shut up and dribble. That's not the only thing we are.

[00:39:29] And so going through this life and being able to grow and evolve, that's all I've always wanted to do in the, and this book allows me to showcase other parts of the Dwyane and not just the basketball player. And that's why you see stuff in here about fashion, about community, about family, about my life as a human being and not just a sport icon.

[00:39:50] Jordan Harbinger: I think that's something that to be applauded. I mean, not everyone chooses to use their platform for things outside of generating revenue. I mean, granted fashion, beverages, some of that is revenue generating, but you also step beyond the game or you did, when you were in the game step beyond the game, but you still approach issues like gun violence, education, charitable works.

[00:40:08] I read somewhere that you can be spotted visiting sick kids in hospitals, but no press is invited and nobody really knows. They're just like, "Hey, did you know Dwayne Wade showed up to the burn unit at the hospital." You're walking the walk. You're not just like doing press releases, you know, for yourself, which is maybe a little unusual, I think. 

[00:40:27] Dwyane Wade: I think how I try to approach things and it's always going to be a difference of opinion on everything. And especially when it's a public conversation, when I started to get their confidence or when things really started to personally affect me, I started to understand that I had a microphone that other people do not have. It would be a shame if I have these thoughts and these feelings and this hurting, this anger and all the same things that everyone else has but I have this microphone. And then, I have the ability to be able to reach out to companies and reach out to other people to help support and all these things — and I'm not using it, shame on me.

[00:41:04] And so I will always speak out on things that I feel has injustice. Things that I feel personally connected and tied to. Trayvon Martin was the first thing that I spoke out on. And when I speak out on something, it is not to do it because I want attention from it. I do it because I want to bring attention to it. The Parkland shooting, that was to bring attention. That was to have a sit down and listen, see how you can help your community, like all these things. There's so many things that go on and I have a lot of friends who are committed to the work as well. And it's cool to be a part of a friend base, whether it's LeBron, James, who's committed to I PROMISE, or as Kim Kardashian who's committed to justice for Julius Jones. To be able to have friends that are committed to doing the work and using their platform, that makes me want to do the same thing. 

[00:41:54] Jordan Harbinger: In your life right now, it's basically just halftime to use a tired basketball analogy. I mean, you're 39, what are you most excited about bringing to the world, besides your basketball talents, wine, some socks? By the way, Stance socks, my absolute favorite. Kudos to you and that team for— 

[00:42:09] Dwyane Wade: Thank you. 

[00:42:09] Jordan Harbinger: —having an eye for quality. But you know, you're bigger than wine and socks, that's what I'm trying to say. And I'm sure you got some plans. 

[00:42:15] Dwyane Wade: So my first book was titled The Father First. And the second title in that book was How My Life Became Bigger Than Basketball. My mom always told me, I remember being a kid, she always said, "Dwayne, you know, I know you want to be a basketball star one day, but your life is bigger than basketball." I didn't know what that meant when I was young, but everything I do now, I realize what that means. I feel that in this life I'm in now, if you go back to my book, my book starts at the pre-game. I feel like I'm back in the pre-game. I'm a rookie again in the life of being a businessman. In the life of being a husband again, I mean, I'm husband in a way I've never husband before, I'm fathering in a way I've never fathered before. And it still ain't enough, but I'm learning. And so that's the one thing, Jordan, that I will always — some people call it being humbled or having a sense of self or whatever it is. But for me, I'm just always understanding. There's so many things in this world that I do not know. And if I do not know something, the best thing to do is to ask the question and shut up and listen. And that's what I've been able to do and I will continue to do. 

[00:43:21] Jordan Harbinger: I like asking questions. It's the shut up and listen part that I could probably use a little help there, but man, this has been great. And on a personal note, as a relatively new father, I really enjoyed your book about fatherhood. I also deeply respect your vulnerability in the custody story and being so public with that. Not a lot of people with your public profile would open the kimono like that, so I admire that. And I want to thank you for coming on the show today, man. I hope we get to do this again sometime, maybe in person at some point, and I just really appreciate your time and your humility and your honesty.

[00:43:50] Dwyane Wade: Yeah, man, I appreciate you allowing us to come on here and obviously talk about my memoir, but the other thing, that's the good thing about it, right? I'm not a sports guy, no more. I don't have to just talk about the game. Thank you for the platform and all your listeners, thank you guys for listening.

[00:44:06] Jordan Harbinger: Special thanks to Hi-Chew for sponsoring this episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Hi-Chew is an incredible candy. I've been a fan for decades since I discovered it in Japan and brought back several bags to share the joy it brought me. It's originally invented as a gum substitute because apparently in Japan, you can't remove food from your mouth. It's really impolite. It's probably impolite, everywhere, but you know, we savages over here. Hi-Chew was innovated to have a texture light gum that you can actually swallow. Biting into a Hi-Chew is an experience that'll bring a smile to your face. Hi-Chew has created over 200 unique flavors since it launched in Japan in 1975. I assume that someone's entire job is just thinking of new flavors for Hi-Chew. Hi-Chew has dual layer. It's got a special patented flavor release technology. And one of the unique features is it's chewy texture, not a gummy, not a taffy, not too soft, not too hard. 

[00:44:48] Jen Harbinger: We want you to love Hi-Chew as much as we do. Visit hi-chew.com/win. That's H-I-C-H-E-W.com/W-I-N. And enter to win an exclusive bucket full of Hi-Chew candy and swag. While you're there, check out how you can become a member of the Hi-Chew crew, which is an exclusive club where you receive special offers and all the cool things. Go to hi-chew.com/win. 

[00:45:14] Jordan Harbinger: You're about to hear a preview of The Jordan Harbinger Show with rapper and singer, T-Pain. 

[00:45:18]  T-Pain: I recorded Bartender in a hotel room of a nudist resort. You're ass naked, looking out the window with a cup of coffee. There's people f*cking by the pool. Just everything's happening all at this one hotel. And you're just like, "This is nice. This is nice." 

[00:45:34] The hardest thing about being number one is staying number one. That stuck with me so much that I didn't even care when I became number one. Because I felt like I needed to work harder to stay there and everything else was a distraction. 

[00:45:48] Broke was Wells Fargo's sending me email saying your account had zero dollars. 

[00:45:53] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, wow. 

[00:45:54]  T-Pain: Like broke was me asking my manager, "Can he buy food for my kids?" And this is from like upwards of $90 million. 

[00:46:01] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. 

[00:46:01]  T-Pain: And then gone to pure zero. I mean, because I was young, I'm like, what am I supposed to do? You signed me as a 19-year-old and just hand me $40 million. What do I—? I don't know what to do with this. I have 43 cars at one time. 

[00:46:16] Jordan Harbinger: How many? 43? 

[00:46:17]  T-Pain: 43 cars. All the gas goes bad and all of them. The Ferrari's don't crank up. If they're not driven every day, the Bugatti is stuck in between two Chevys. It took me nine years to lose all that money. And it took me two years to get it back. I could be a lot richer. I could be going to space in a giant dick, or I could be stuffing my nose and my ears with toilet paper to make sure roaches don't get in. I think I'm fine where I am. 

[00:46:40] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:46:41]  T-Pain: It seems okay. 

[00:46:43] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, man. 

[00:46:43] For more on how T-Pain made and lost $90 million and how he climbed his way back, check out episode 551 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:46:53] Dwayne was a lot deeper than I thought, man, I really wasn't — you know, a lot of times with athletes, you just don't know what you're going to get. And with him, I was really impressed. You know, he actually thinks about parenting. He wants to be a good example. He's not just out to make a bunch of money and get famous. And I find that — well, look, the bar is low, but I found that impressive. He's also an investor in a lot of different companies. He's part owner of the Utah Jazz now as well. So he's not just blowing his money on hookers and blow as many of us have seen athletes and famous people do. I'm not there yet. 

[00:47:20] Also props to him for being not only a worthy parent, but a celebrity parent, so he's under extra scrutiny for that as well. You know, there's a lot of negativity and hate coming from the public for every decision he makes. He's got a son who transitioned to a daughter. That can never be easy. It's just one challenge after another. And I thought this was an interesting conversation because he's handling all that, handling it well and also handling it all under the eye of millions of people, which just makes it really hard to deal with, I would imagine. And a lot worse if you make any missteps. So props to him for being so open and for giving his kids a life that's so different from the one that he had grown. 

[00:47:57] Links to all things Dwyane Wade will be on our website in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Please use our website links if you buy books from any guests that you hear on the show, it does help support the show. Transcripts are in the show notes. There's a video of this interview going up on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. 

[00:48:18] I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage relationships using the same system, software, and tiny habits that I use. That's our Six-Minute Networking course. The course is free. It's at jordanharbinger.com/course. I'm teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. And most of the guests that you hear on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us, you'll be in smart company where you belong. 

[00:48:39] The show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Millie Ocampo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know a sports fan of Dwayne Wade, please share this episode with them. I hope you find something great in every episode of this show. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen. Happy New Year. We'll see you next time. 

[00:49:13] Are you ready for a podcast that doesn't hold back? Check out The Adam Carolla Show, the number one daily downloaded podcast in the world, five days a week, and completely uncensored. Join Adam as he shares his thoughts on current events, relationships, politics, and so much more. Adam welcomes a wide range of special guests to join him in studio for in-depth interviews and a front-row seat to his freewheeling point of view. Download, subscribe, and tune in to The Adam Carolla Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts.