574: Can There Be Merit in the Extramarital? | Feedback Friday

574: Can There Be Merit in the Extramarital? | Feedback Friday

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer the Roy to my Siegfried and y'all are, by the way, the lions who maul on stage in case you are wondering, Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. And we turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. So we want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening even inside your own mind.

[00:00:40] So if you're new to the show, on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. This week we had Tamer Elnoury who infiltrated terror groups inside the United States and Canada, a fascinating story. He's still undercover, which is why he's a blurry pixelated blob in all the videos and pictures. And we had returning guest David Buss on why men specifically cheat in relationships. It's definitely outside the conventional wisdom here. David is an expert in evolutionary psychology and biology. So this is really a more scientific and interesting episode on this subject, in my opinion, a lot more with the ratio of females to males and vice versa, as well as social status in play here. A really fascinating, interesting episode if you're interested in relationships and human psychology, as most of you are. 

[00:01:32] I also write every so often on the blog, my latest post, The Best Way to Ask for a Promotion and Make Sure You Land It. One of the most common questions here on the show, obviously we finally decided to write an article about it. This one's all about rising up in the organization, what to do if you don't get the promotion, you were hoping for using feedback, using strategies and mindsets to keep climbing and figure out what you want. Of course, all of the articles are at jordanharbinger.com/articles. That's where all of our articles and writings reside.

[00:02:01] Now, by the way, I had the funniest brunch the other day. By the way, when adults who are married say brunch, it's not nearly as fun as when single people say brunch. I've learned that I've learned that— 

[00:02:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: I was about to say it. 

[00:02:11] Jordan Harbinger: —like now brunch is either one or no drinks. Back when I was in my '20s brunch was, "What did we do yesterday? And how come it's Sunday already." Now it's like, "I had French toast and now I feel disgusting," right? But I had— 

[00:02:23] Gabriel Mizrahi: Then I went home and took a nap. 

[00:02:25] Jordan Harbinger: Right, at least one nap. So Jen and I are sitting next to this girl, who's on a date with a guy and she's average or so. The guy looks like Silicon Valley engineer, who hasn't seen the sun in a few years. And she goes, "Well, long story short, my kid is 12. My ex — it doesn't matter. I mean, he doesn't matter. He's not allowed to have any contact with him." And then she's like, "It's a long story," and the guy's just sort of slowly shrinking, but also tightening up at the same time. 

[00:02:53] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh God. 

[00:02:54] Jordan Harbinger: "Drama. I mean, it sort of sounds like drama. I mean, I love drama. Who doesn't love drama? I mean, Bollywood and just — I mean, I'm also dramatic. I mean, like I can control it, but who doesn't want a little drama, right?" And I look at the guy and I look the guy dead in his face because he's across from me, like sitting next to Jen, and he looks at me once quickly. And then again, quickly, and I looked him dead pan in the face and I just sort of slowly shook my head. 

[00:03:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: No, you did not. 

[00:03:22] Jordan Harbinger: Immediately looks down and looks back up at her and looks back over at me and then looks down again and looks back up at her and goes, "Oh, okay." And I could tell he hadn't heard a word of what she said outside of that, but he was just processing my head shake. And I was just like, "Dude, run for the hills." 

[00:03:35] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. 

[00:03:36] Jordan Harbinger: Jen, after we left, because she couldn't say anything in the moment, she goes, "So you heard that, right? Like you heard that conversation." I was like, "Yeah," she goes, "That girl is for sure. 100 percent crazy." 

[00:03:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh my God. 

[00:03:46] Jordan Harbinger: And in a bad way only. And Jen heard even more choice bits like how she doesn't get along with any of her family members and they're way too strict. And her parents don't approve of any of her choices, but they take care of her kid because they want her to get married. And I'm like, this is the worst situation— 

[00:04:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. 

[00:04:01] Jordan Harbinger: —that this guy could be in right now. Just absolutely run. I don't know what relevance that has to anything, but I thought it was kind of a funny story because the guy was just absolutely deer in headlights, totally screwed. 

[00:04:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: I love that you and this guy had your own silent film conversation across the room.

[00:04:15] Jordan Harbinger: We did. 

[00:04:15] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's fantastic. 

[00:04:16] Jordan Harbinger: And the only caption was "bro". That was the only dialogue in the silent movie.

[00:04:25] Gabriel Mizrahi: That's so funny. That's so good. That's like the Charlie Chaplin movies where they're suddenly, like, they just put like a frame of a text in the middle and it's like, "I didn't know you would be here." 

[00:04:33] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:04:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Like this is you going like, "Run."

[00:04:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It was just bro with like 17 O's on the following slides that just kept going and going and going while the piano music plays.

[00:04:43] Gabriel Mizrahi: I hope he pictures your face for the rest of his life and gets out of that relationship. You might've saved him. 

[00:04:48] Jordan Harbinger: When she calls him again. It's just going to be a mental image of my face shaking my head in slow motion. And he's going to be like boop, screen. No, thanks. Straight to voicemail. 

[00:04:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: You're changing lives, man. Not just on Feedback Friday, but like out in the world at brunch. 

[00:05:01] Jordan Harbinger: One disapproving nod at the time, changing lives. 

[00:05:05] By the way, some people have been asking me on social media how I managed to read so many books. One, look, it's my job. I plow through a lot of books. That's how I do, I make time for it. I have to prep for the show. But another sort of secret weapon that I have is, well, I buy a lot of audiobooks from Audible. That's no big surprise there, but I use a program called Open Audible and this program it's free openaudible.org. Actually, I don't know if it's still free. I think it might be 20 bucks now, openaudible.org. We'll link it in the show notes. It works for Windows or Mac. 

[00:05:33] And what it'll do is it'll log into your Audible account and you can download all the books instead of playing in the Audible player. And then you can take the books and listen to them on any device. Anything, that'll play an audio book and I drop them into Overcast, which can then play at 3X and remove silences and voice boost and all this stuff. So I actually ended up shaving like an hour, hour and a half off every single book that I read, which maybe even two hours, depending on the narrator. So that's not bad, you know, an eight-hour book turning into six hours and then you play it at 2X. You're reading a whole book in three hours. I do that all the time, multiple times per week, openaudible.org. Big shout out to them. Definitely a worthwhile purchase if you do a lot of audiobooks stuff. 

[00:06:13] All right, Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag? 

[00:06:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I'm 37. I'm newly divorced. And I've recently reconnected with an old college girlfriend who is now married with three kids. It's been 19 years since we met. We've always been attracted to each other and I'm still head over heels for her. I could have had a serious relationship with her in the past, but I said no, as she had had her first child during our third year in college, and I wasn't willing to be with someone who had a child back then. I stopped talking to her when I met my now ex-wife, but she was always on my mind. Then a couple of years ago, she called my office. I was ecstatic that she had found me, but I blew her off as I was married. After my divorce though, I decided to look her up and she was thrilled when I contacted her. We've been secretly talking every day through video chat and an online forum to keep any suspicious activity outside of our social media. I also saw her once for lunch. Nothing but a small peck on the lips occurred that day. We both tell each other how in love we are, but we also agree that we should not have an affair. We don't trust ourselves to meet in person again. I am in love with this woman. She claims the same, but she has a life of her own and our marriage seems okay. If I had the opportunity, I would totally be with her. I would accept her kids. I want her, but I also don't want to be a homewrecker. I now feel frustrated, jealous, and even heartbroken because I can't be with her. I have mild depression and I began therapy as a result. I also feel very awkward going into the dating scene in my late 30s. Like my age might be off-putting to girls I want to be with, and I might miss the boat on finding someone else I could have a family with. So what would you do if you were me? Signed, Waiting in The Wings. 

[00:07:50] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Quite the situation you're in my dude. It's messy. It's probably pretty intense. There's no simple answer. There's a lot at play here. So let's start by getting a handle on the facts. You're in love with a woman you've been head over heels for, for almost half of your. It sounds like she feels the same way about you. You're having a mostly emotional affair, but it would escalate if you saw each other again, because for one thing, it sounds like you'd be into it, but it's really hard for that not to happen. She's married, somewhat happily, kind of unclear, but it's not a terrible marriage. But you're also not willing to ask her to leave her husband to be with you. And now you're stuck in this painful limbo. So yeah, this is a tough one. If she were super unhappy in her marriage, this would be a lot simpler. It's still messy, but at least then she'd have two good reasons to leave and you'd have more license to ask her to do that. You know, "Life is short, we're in love. Let's be happy." Now, it sounds to me like she is more in love with you than with her husband. But it's not like he's some monster and there's no love there. It's just not that clear cut of a decision. You know, maybe she's a little bored, but it's not like it's a bad fit. 

[00:08:55] And before we continue, I just want to say, I know the situation is a little, it's a little unseemly. Some people listening right now are probably going, "Oh, but she's married. They're crossing a line. This is wrongful, full stop." And to be honest, look, I hear you. I get it. But we're not going to sit here and wag our fingers at this guy, at least Gabriel and I aren't. Y'all are welcome to. Y'all tigers mauling us on stage. He's in a difficult spot and so is she. There are legitimate feelings at stake here. I'm not a big fan of infidelity or anything, of course, but it's not super helpful to judge him or this woman. Sometimes you marry the wrong person. Sometimes you meet the right person later in life. Sometimes your feelings evolve. I know it's messy. I know it's dramatic, but that's life. I'm 41. I'm still young, but I know enough people that this has happened to where it can't just be bad people are the people who cheat and everybody else is horrible for doing this. It's not that simple anymore. It was when I was a kid. 

[00:09:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:09:47] Jordan Harbinger: But it isn't anymore. 

[00:09:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not anymore. I mean, isn't this basically the plot of The Notebook. Everyone was totally rooting for Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling to get together in that movie, even though she was engaged. So I think we can understand where they're coming from here a little bit. 

[00:10:01] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Look, Team Noah, all the way. So we're just going to put those judgments aside. And meet this guy where he is. So bottom line, I think you need to sort some things out. First of all, I think, you know that staying in this limbo is not healthy. It's not sustainable. It's not a true relationship as it stands right now. It's a highly charged friendship. That's putting her at risk and her kids for that matter and breaking your heart as you put it. It's also preventing you from finding somebody else who's great. And also actually available, which is actually, this is a major opportunity cost, right? You're in limbo. You're orbiting around here. You're not even looking for the actual right person. Someone's going to have to give here or something is going to have to give here. Or you're going to wake up one day in your 40s, still pining for a woman who won't commit to you, possibly ever. 

[00:10:44] The thing is though, you don't want to be a homewrecker and I get it. It's a difficult role to play. But you're already a homewrecker in a sense. And this is sort of in between thing that you're doing. It's not serving either of you really. Either, she needs to come to terms with what she really wants, what kind of partner she wants, what kind of marriage she wants, how she really feels and make a decision. And/or you need to tell her what you want. Tell her you're ready for her to be your partner and create a future with her. Or you just both need to close the door. I mean, you're obviously welcome to continue this ambiguous, covert, tortuous, emotional affair as long as you want. But again, where is that even going? What are you getting out of that, each of you? 

[00:11:22] I'm also not totally clear on what's going on for her. Obviously, she has strong feelings for you, but does she want to blow up her actual life to act on them? How does she really feel about her husband? Her not trusting herself to meet you in person again, that could be her acting responsibly, minimizing her risk. Or that could be her trying to contain the relationship with you, enjoying the stimulation. It's breaking the boredom a little bit. There's a thrill. There's newness of it, but she's not really starting up a whole affair. She can always deny it. She can always say you're friends. She can always close the door. There's not any real commitment here. Again, we don't know, but it's important that you know where her head and her heart are right now. So you're not on two different pages, which is actually — I mean, Gabriel, it's kind of my hunch, but whatever, we don't have enough info, basically y'all need to talk, like really talk.

[00:12:10] If I were you, I would get a good handle on what she wants, where she sees your relationship going, whether she's willing to risk her marriage and her family to explore this with you. Then I'd tell her how you're feeling, why you want to be with her, what your life would look like together, how you want to proceed. And then I talk about whether you guys see a practical path to being together in the near future. If there is, this chapter will just be the unpleasant transition to your life together. If not, I would seriously reconsider what you're doing in this relationship. 

[00:12:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Absolutely. I agree completely. But the truth is she's the one who really has to make a decision here, not so much him. Her situation is more complicated. She has more to lose. And by carrying on with you, I mean, let's just be blunt about it, she's playing with fire, right? The question is, is playing with that fire worth it. Is it leading to something? Is it leading to a relationship that's going to be more fulfilling for her or is it just, you know, a bit of fun? But that's what you, mostly her, but both of you really need to figure out right now.

[00:13:06] But there is one other thing, Jordan, that I think we need to talk about here, which is this thing he said about feeling very awkward going into the dating scene in his late 30s. Like I think he said his age might be off putting to the girls he wants to be with. So look, dude, it sounds to me like you have some beliefs about how people perceive you, how they feel about you given your age, but, look, you're not 78 years old trying to meet some 25 year old on Bumble. You're in your late 30s. And you're just one of many people in that situation. There are tons of single guys in their late 30s, nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you think there is, or that you're a little insecure about it, I have to imagine that that's playing some role here. Because I do wonder if you're fixated so intensely on this woman, not just because you love her, which I believe that you do, but because in your mind, she's your best shot at getting the relationship you really want, because dating is so fraught for you, which obviously not a great reason to keep pursuing this one person, right? 

[00:13:56] So I would take a look at those assumptions. See what else is going on there? Try to separate out your fear about your dating prospects from your love for this person specifically. I know that's hard to do. But these two things, they're probably connected, or at least they're informing each other in some way right now. And if I were you, I'd want to get a good handle on all of that, so you can be sure that you're pursuing this woman for the right reasons. 

[00:14:18] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, good point, Gabe,. You never want to go into the dating game with a scarcity mindset thinking that you're never going to meet someone as good as whoever's in front of you at the moment. But I also think that he might be doing this for the right reasons. 

[00:14:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Sure. 

[00:14:31] Jordan Harbinger: So my last piece of advice is to just handle this relationship with as much thoughtfulness and maturity as possible. There's a way to honor your feelings for this woman with as little risk and drama as possible, but it'll take a lot of communication and introspection. It will require both of you to step up, stand by your feelings, and make a decision. And this could work out great. This could totally be your person, or she could be a person who just happens to have a unique grasp on you, but that doesn't automatically mean you can or should be together. And that's what you have to figure out, man. You really need to put some thought into this. I know you can do it. You've got it in you. 

[00:15:06] Look, Gabe, this guy already knows he's got to do this, right? We're just highlighting, I think, probably what he already knows he needs to do. 

[00:15:13] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. 

[00:15:14] Jordan Harbinger: But yeah, if that's your hunch, go ahead and do it because that's our hunch too, man. Good luck with it. You've got this. 

[00:15:19] All right. You can reach us friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you can, include the state and country that you live in, that'll help us give you more detailed advice. If there's something you're going through, any big decision that you're wrestling with, or you just need a new perspective on stuff, life, love, work. What to do if you get fired by the church that is supposed to protect you? Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help. We keep every email anonymous. 

[00:15:52] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. 

[00:15:57] This episode is sponsored in part by Build for Tomorrow podcast. Want to future proof your life and career? I want to tell you about the podcast that can help you do just that. It's called Build for Tomorrow. It tells us about my friend, Jason Feifer. He is the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur magazine. If you saw me on the cover of the magazine, that was him bribing for — no, he's just being a good guy, but honestly, his show is really good. I've listened to several episodes. I know Marc Andreessen likes it and that's kind of a big deal. In each episode, Jason takes something that seems concerning or confusing today and then learns it's surprising history, what important things were missing, how to be more optimistic about tomorrow. For example, are we really addicted to technology like everyone says? Not according to addiction researchers. Our participation trophies, ruining today's children, not according to sports historians, because these trophies have actually been around for like a hundred years. I did not know that. What can we learn from the surprisingly controversial history of the elevator and teddy bears? Both reveal a lot about today's newest technology and social changes. So if you're ready to stop worrying and start embracing new things, listen to Build for Tomorrow. You can find it anywhere you get your podcasts and stay tuned after this episode of the show for a trailer of Build for Tomorrow, right at the very end of the episode. 

[00:17:04] This episode is also sponsored by Better Help online therapy. We all experienced the ups and downs of life, a professional setback, rejection, financial issues, relationships, personal loss, sometimes all at the same time. Most of the time though, we're able to bounce back. Sometimes, we might need a little extra help in doing so. Better Help has professional therapy done securely online. The service is available to clients worldwide. Better Help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating in under 48. Better Help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches. They make it easy and free to change your therapists if you need to. Don't just take it from me. They've got stellar testimonials online, such as this one. "She's been the first therapist that really understands what I'm going through. She helps me realize a lot of things I don't see and is very honest with me. She also gets me out of low moments and gives me a different perspective."

[00:17:52] Jen Harbinger: And our listeners get 10 percent off your first month of online therapy at betterhelp.com/jordan. Visit better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan. And join over a million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced Better Help professional. 

[00:18:07] Jordan Harbinger: Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. 

[00:18:20] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show.

[00:18:26] All right. Next up. 

[00:18:27] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan and Gabe, 10 years ago, I entered a relationship with a woman who had a three-year-old son. The son's biological father had abandoned him. So I assumed the role of the second parent. Four years into our relationship, my partner and I decided to adopt a girl from foster care since we were not married, only one of us was able to adopt. After I adopted her, my partner and I remained together for a few more years until we split. We've been navigating co-parenting for a year now, but it continues to become increasingly difficult to deal with my ex. She's the biological parent to our son. I have no legal rights to him as we were never married. The same is true for our daughter. I adopted her because we were never married. So she has no legal rights to her. We've been sharing custody 50/50 of both children. The issue is with my daughter. For the past year, my ex has been trying to find ways of having less time with her. She's constantly looking for excuses or loopholes to not have her a full week at a time. My thinking is that she loves and cares for our daughter, but she doesn't like dealing with her or her behaviors. Our daughter has fetal alcohol spectrum disorder and my ex greatly struggles with that fact. It is very evident that she plays favorites with the children. And our son is obviously the preferred child in her household. My daughter makes comments all the time about how she does not feel like she is part of the family and it's heartbreaking. My ex is a narcissist and a toxic person. I feel like I'm not doing a proper job as a mother by allowing my daughter to continue to be subjected to this emotional abuse. But I fear that if I remove my daughter from the situation, my ex might not allow me time with my son. She can be very petty and she often makes decisions that are not in the best interest of the children. Am I hurting my daughter by continuing to have her go to my ex's every other week? How can I best help my daughter without jeopardizing my relationship with my son? Or am I just overreacting? Signed, Shared Custody, split loyalty. 

[00:20:12] Jordan Harbinger: Man, this is a really sad situation. I'm sorry your ex has been making things so hard for your daughter. You're in a very tough position here, having to basically choose between protecting your daughter and staying close with your stepson. It's possible that there isn't an ideal outcome here, but there are better outcomes and worse outcomes. So let's get into it. 

[00:20:32] First of all, are you hurting your daughter by having her go to your ex's house every other week? Well, based on what you've shared, it sounds like probably yes to some degree. Of course, you're not hurting her, not directly anyway, your ex is. But I can see why you feel responsible. So, no, you're not overreacting. This hurtful relationship with your ex, it could be taking a real toll on your daughter. So I'm thinking that you need to try and talk to your ex about all of this, and I'm guessing you've done this before, because that's not, you know, super complicated advice. But maybe it hasn't happened as earnestly and as forcefully as it needs to because you're afraid of the repercussions, perhaps.

[00:21:10] So here's an idea. What if you made some time to talk with your ex alone. I wouldn't do this when the kids are around. You need to be able to speak openly. Tell her what you're noticing, how she doesn't seem to want to spend as much time with your daughter, how she struggles to deal with her behavior, how she seems to prefer her son over your daughter. And then, and this is the important part, help her see how all of that is affecting your daughter and will probably affect her for years to come. Tell her about how, when your daughter comes home, she talks about not feeling like she's part of the family, that she feels inferior to her brother, all of that. Paint a picture of how heartbreaking that is for her and for you.

[00:21:47] The key here will be not to blame or judge her for this behavior, even though you have plenty of reason to do so, because the last thing you want to do is trigger her defenses. So I'd say something like, "Look, I know our daughter has some very difficult issues. I know that's not easy for either of us. I don't blame you for struggling to manage her, even I struggled to manage her sometimes too. I get how hard it is, but we have to be there for her. We have to make her feel loved and supported. We can't make life even harder for her by treating her differently." And if your ex seems to get it, then you can tell her the specific ways in which you want her to treat your daughter better, or at least stop treating her poorly. Because again, you might not be able to create the perfect home for her over there, but you can at least make it tolerable. 

[00:22:29] Now, the problem really is that your ex is narcissistic and that will probably make it very difficult for her to acknowledge any failure on her part. If she fits the textbook narcissism pattern, she'll be highly defended. She'll reject your feedback. She'll double down on her position. Everything in this conversation will somehow become a reflection of her. So your best bet is to use that to your advantage. And there are ways to do this. Maybe you appeal to her ego a little bit. Like, "Look, you're such a great parent to our son. I just want our daughter to benefit from your parenting too." Or, "Our son loves you so much. Wouldn't it be great if our daughter felt that same way about you too?" I realize this is a little manipulative. You're using her toxic psychology and dysfunction against her. So that's a little sketch I'll admit. And honestly, making your ex treat your daughter better by appealing to her narcissistic need to be admired, that's not suddenly going to make her a great parent. She's still going to be a difficult parent. She's still going to be a narcissist or have narcissistic tendencies, but it might get her to stop hurting your daughter quite so much. 

[00:23:31] Gabriel Mizrahi: Ooh, it's clever, Jordan. I liked that. It was kind of like a white hat ethical influencing kind of move. You're right. She can't change her ex fundamentally, but she might be able to lean on her to be a little bit better as a parent. That said, it's also possible that your ex blows you off and just refuses to change at all. In which case, you have to make a decision about whether to continue allowing your daughter to go over there at all, or just as often as she used to. The choice is basically, and it's a terrible choice, do you give your daughter two parents? One of whom is toxic. Or do you just give her one good parent? I mean, that's really tough. That's a hard place to be in. I want to say that the better situation is having one great parent. But I know it's more complicated than that. And you also have to take into account your daughter's relationship with her stepbrother. I mean, are they close? Does she want to spend time with him? Does he want to have a relationship with her? Is that a big part of her life? Because it's not just about you and your daughter and your daughter's wellbeing. I mean, in this situation, everyone's connected. It affects everybody, but you know, it's also possible that your ex would allow you to keep seeing your stepson, even if you kept your daughter away.

[00:24:32] And look, I know that this is a sad thing to say out loud, but if your ex really doesn't like parenting your daughter, maybe she'll be relieved to not have to see her as often, which is super sad and obviously very hurtful. But that's the reality of the situation here. You're the dedicated parent who's focused on her and struggles to relate to your daughter, to manage her as you put it. So is it possible that you would still allow you to see your son? I think it is. So it's possible that you might be prematurely worrying about this outcome before you really have to. You might want to try to talk to her, see what would happen before you worry about the chest move she's going to make if you start to pull your daughter away. 

[00:25:07] But honestly, at the end of the day, I do think you have to prioritize your daughter, not just because she's the one who's being hurt here, but also because you adopted her, she's your responsibility. You have to do what's right for her. I would try to stand up for her without disrupting the family as much as possible. But if your ex continues to abuse her, as you put it, then you might have to protect her from that. It sucks that there will be a major cost to you, cost to your stepson, a cost to the whole family in putting your daughter first, but that's the situation that your ex created. That's not entirely on you. 

[00:25:38] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. Like I said, in the beginning, there's really no ideal outcome here. It's more about managing a bad situation as best as she can. And there's one bright spot in all of this, though, you said that you guys have been sharing custody 50/50 of both kids. And I don't know if that's a legal agreement or kind of a handshake informal one, but either way, I do suggest you talk to a family attorney in your area. A lawyer could help you hold your ex to the custody arrangement you currently have, which could mean that not only will your ex have to honor her time with your daughter, if that's what you want, but she might also have to allow you to keep seeing your son. Again, that will not automatically make her a great mom, but it could lower the cost of standing up for your daughter, if that makes sense.

[00:26:21] But honestly, no matter how this custody thing shakes out, the best thing you can do for your daughter is, being an amazing mother to her as well. Everything your ex is you have to be the opposite: kind, loving, steady, present, all of that. If you decide to take her away from your ex, I'd understand that choice. But if you keep sharing custody, which you also have a good reason to do, frankly, then you have to really be there for your daughter to absorb the damage your ex is inflicting. Talk to your daughter, validate her feelings, process them with her, help her find ways to cope with your ex. And to appropriately stand up for herself.

[00:26:54] And if I were you I'd seriously consider finding her a therapist. Yes. I know she's a little kid, but I'm guessing she has a lot to work through because between the fetal alcohol syndrome and the foster care and the step-mom drama, this is a complicated-ass childhood. She could really use a professional to talk to. That could be the thing that gets her through this period of her life and out the other side, even stronger as opposed to coming out a little bit screwy from wondering why one of her moms doesn't like her. 

[00:27:21] So I'm really sorry that you're in the situation, I am. You sound like a really thoughtful parent. Your daughter is lucky to have you. You might have to live in a world of sort of crappy trade-offs for a while, but as long as you keep putting your daughter first, being the best possible mom to her, you're on the right track. So good luck. 

[00:27:36] By the way, if you're joining us for the first time, or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, we've got episode starter packs. These are collections of favorite episodes organized by popular topic. It helps new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com/start to get started. 

[00:27:54] All right. Next up. 

[00:27:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm a 25-year-old blind man working on a computer science degree and an online program in machine learning. And until recently, I really loved it. Not only is machine learning a fun and exciting field, but it also pays pretty well. I've been poor my whole life and I'm motivated to get out of my mom's house and finally get a real job. The last year that I've been intensely focusing on machine learning, however, has been exhausting. This is mostly because of my disability and the fact that a lot of the work involves some pretty visual math concepts, because most online materials are inaccessible to some degree. And there are very few people out there who can teach me visual concepts. I'm burning the candle at both ends, and I'm starting to worry that I won't even like the job I'm hoping to get. I've always had an interest in languages. I'm semi-fluent in Spanish and have plans to learn many more languages. My goal is to travel and live abroad. So becoming a translator or an interpreter has been on my radar for a while. I recognize that the earning potential of these career paths is less than machine learning, but I have a feeling it may be more enjoyable to me in the long run. It's also easier to do from a technology perspective because the tools are just more accessible. I'm torn though, because I've worked so hard for several years on machine learning, it feels like giving up on something that I put a ton of time, sweat, and tears into. But at the same time, I want to be genuinely happy with what I do. How should I make this decision? Should I finish the degrees and certs I've been grinding away at, or should I cut my losses and go for something that seems more fun? Signed, Grasping in the Dark. 

[00:29:22] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. First things first, you sound like a truly remarkable person. So you're blind. You grew up with limited resources. You're studying computer science and machine learning, one of the hardest fields for anyone to master, I would think. Let alone somebody with your disability who can't even see the freaking textbook. You're working your ass off, plus you've got all these other skills. Dude, you're incredible. I'm serious. Whether you stick with this field or not, you have proven that you have a ton of smarts and resilience, and those are incredible assets that will get you really far. But I also know that that makes the sunk cost for studying something that's a huge pain in the ass, even higher, which is hard to wrap your head around.

[00:29:55] Basically, I think you need to get clear on whether you're moving away from machine learning, just because it's hard or whether you're moving away from machine learning, because it really doesn't speak to you and you're over it. It sounds like it's a mix of both, but it's more that you're genuinely worried you wouldn't even be able to enjoy a career in machine learning. Meanwhile, working as a translator or interpreter, that would be more enjoyable in addition to being a lot easier for somebody probably in your position, especially with all the tools now. If that's true, then those are good reasons to pursue that field. And I would chase that feeling. I would just take some time to really sit with all this and see whether the difficulty of this work, your exhaustion, if those are feeding this desire to switch tracks or if you genuinely aren't happy in this field. 

[00:30:40] I've said this on the show before, it's always better to be running towards something than running away from something and especially when it comes to careers and jobs and things like that, businesses. And look, I know that in your case, it's probably hard to separate out whether something is hard from whether it really excites you since your disability directly impacts how you experienced the world, of course, especially visual concepts. But I still don't think you can go wrong listening to that voice, that's saying, "Eeh, I'm more interested in languages. I'd be more fulfilled being a translator." I almost feel like some of the difficulties with visual math is almost like, "Well, this is a huge pain in the ass." It's getting me to look at the problem, but it's not the actual. 

[00:31:18] If you really want to be sure. Here's one practical idea: why don't you book a few calls with people who work in machine learning and talk to them about their day to day. Find out what the job actually requires, what it's like, what would it be like for you if you can't see, right? If they've got visual tools, whatever. You'll have a lot more data to work with, but as for the conflict, part of this decision will be coming to terms with the time and the energy that you've spent on computer science. And in your case, that's a little more complicated because you have a whole identity on the line, and I'm guessing that mastering this field with your disability, it's given you a lot of pride as it should. It's a massive accomplishment, but then leaving the field behind maybe it feels a little bit like admitting defeat or losing this source of gratification. That might bring up some other feelings for you. All of which to me make perfect sense. 

[00:32:09] So in my opinion, I don't think this is time wasted if you decide to switch gears. First of all, you've developed a ton of skills by pursuing machine learning, probably a whole new way of thinking. You've proven to yourself that you can do highly complex work with your disability, which is extraordinary. And maybe most importantly, you've realized that you probably don't actually want to work in this field. And that is huge. 

[00:32:32] We talked about this recently with a woman who did a master's in English and then found her dream job working in mental health. That was episode 541, by the way. I've talked about this, a bunch of my own life, leaving the law to become a podcaster, and all that. We always carry things over from one chapter to another, skills, knowledge, self-knowledge, relationships, especially relationships, which by the way, I'd also be investing in those right now, especially in the interpreting and translating world, because they could be the people who opened the doors you need in a few years. Don't start then, starting now.

[00:33:04] And who knows, maybe down the road, you find a way to combine your knowledge of computer science and/or machine learning with your gift for languages. And you create some sort of super unique talent stack. There's a really exciting overlap between those fields. And very few people have experience in both. You might even be the only person who has experience in both and is also visually impaired. 

[00:33:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. 

[00:33:24] Jordan Harbinger: Literally, there might be like two of you on planet earth. 

[00:33:26] Gabriel Mizrahi: Great point, yeah. 

[00:33:27] Jordan Harbinger: Right, like the more rare your talent stack is, and don't get me wrong, being visually impaired and coping with that your whole life and learning and having a productive life because of that, whether you look at it as just getting by or not, that's a talent stack. So maybe a specialized in interpreting and translating for people with disabilities, who knows another way to capitalize on your unique experience. 

[00:33:46] We're going to link to some great talent stack resources in the show notes for you. I've talked about this a ton. I highly recommend checking those out. So I wouldn't let these, quote-unquote, "sunk costs" stop you from making a great career transition. You shouldn't stick with something that makes him miserable, just because you've been doing it for a while. I would tell that to anybody. That's harder to embrace as you get older, but man, you are 25. You're barely starting out in your career. You have all the freedom in the world. There will be a lot of hard work ahead if you want to be a translator interpreter. You'll have to master new languages. You'll have to pass exams, I assume. You'll have to navigate life in foreign countries to learn those languages. That's not going to be a walk in the park either, but now, you know you have the goods. The question is where will those goods pay off the most? What will bring you fulfillment in addition to money? If that's another field, I say, go for it. Invest your precious time and energy into something you truly care about, something you know you can become great at. If you do that, you really can't go wrong. 

[00:34:46] This is The Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

[00:34:51] This episode is sponsored in part by LifeLock. You know about hardware and software, but you may not know about bloatware. Bloatware is software that is preloaded on a new device that you never asked for and could be potentially harmful, slow your device down, or put your personal information at risk. If you find bloatware on your device, be sure to uninstall it if you can. It's important to understand how cybercrime and identity theft are affecting our lives. And every day we put all of this information at risk on the Internet. In an instant, a cybercriminal can harm what's yours, your finances, your credits. It's one reason that I use LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect a wide range of identity threats. Like your social security number for sale on the dark web. I probably don't have to tell you about ransomware and ID theft online, unless you live under a rock. If LifeLock detects your information has potentially been compromised, they'll send you an alert. 

[00:35:38] Jen Harbinger: No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. But you can keep what's yours with LifeLock by Norton. Join now and save up to 25 percent off your first year at lifelock.com/jordan. That's lifelock.com/jordan for 25 percent off. 

[00:35:53] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Purple Mattress. Doesn't it seem like the world's against us from getting a good night's sleep this time of year? I tend to sleep very warm. It's not very restful at night when I'm tossing and turning and trying to stay cool. But with the Purple Mattress, you can sleep cool and comfy, no matter what the world throws at you. That's because only Purple Mattresses have the grid, a unique ventilated design that allows air to flow to help you sleep cool, even when it feels like a thousand degrees out, like it's been these past few weeks. Unlike memory foam, which remembers everything, even the stuff you want it to forget, the grid bounces back as you move and shift. So you never get that I'm stuck feeling like you do with memory foam, or if you're me, I'm stuck in a freaking pit of my own sweat on the mattress. Every night, I rest my head on the Purple Harmony Pillow, which also has the grid technology. I don't have to fluff it. I don't have to flip to the cool side of the pillow. It cradles oh-so-delicate ears and it's ultra comfortable. 

[00:36:42] Jen Harbinger: Purple is comfort reinvented. Right now, you'll get 10 percent off any order of $200 or more. Good at purple.com/jordan10 and use promo code JORDAN10. That's purple.com/jordan10 promo code JORDAN10 for 10 percent off any order of $200 or more? purple.com/jordan10, promo code JORDAN10. Terms apply. 

[00:37:00] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by apartments.com. apartments.com knows that we've been doing everything from home lately, working from home, exercising from home, schooling from home breakfast, lunch, and dinner-ing from home, listening to this podcast from home, wishing we were anywhere else on the planet-ing from home. But with all of that extra time we've had inside our homes, we've gained a new found appreciation for making sure our place is the right place for us. That's where apartments.com comes in. apartments.com has the most rental listings across apartments, houses, townhomes, and condos, as well as powerful search tools. So it's easy to find that special somewhere that offers exactly what you need. And thanks to its 3D virtual tours, you can now explore your potential new place from anywhere that includes such exotic locales as your boudoir, walk-in pantry, your Alfresco dining area, even your guest powder room if you're feeling adventurous, just about anywhere with an Internet connection. So let your fingers enjoy a stroll across the nearest keyboard and visit apartments.com to start your rental search today. apartments.com, the most popular place to find a place. 

[00:38:04] And now for the conclusion of Feedback Friday. 

[00:38:09] All right, what's next? 

[00:38:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey guys, I'm incredibly lucky to have parents who are well off. And I currently live rent-free and a small house that my parents own while I finished school. My roommate is a very close friend of mine and she's aware of my financial situation. While she has never seemed to outright take advantage of me, I have picked up on small things that do bother me. For example, I always offer to share my food with her, but now she seems to take things without asking. Offers my things to guests and never offers to split the cost. She has an eating disorder, so I don't want to get upset and discourage her from eating altogether. I still have expenses and financial responsibilities of my own, but it's not the money that bothers me, it's the principal that she assumes that I am automatically okay with paying for things. I know my friend has struggled with never putting herself first. She has made a lot of improvement in that department. Sometimes, I feel like she's using me to see how comfortable she can get with prioritizing herself. I care about her a lot, and I want her to better herself, but I don't want it to be at my expense. I am a massive people pleaser. I've had friends who have taken advantage of me in the past, and that's caused me to lose trust in a lot of people. What can I do to set better boundaries without creating an awkward living environment? And should I trust my friend? Signed, The Reluctantly, Resentful Roommate. 

[00:39:21] Jordan Harbinger: Well, this is a fascinating roommate dynamic. You sound like a very grounded person. You know how lucky you are to be in this situation and you want to pay it forward and be generous with other people. I understand that. And hat tip for you there, but it spills over into this people pleasing thing, which signals to people that they can take advantage of you. I totally understand why this roommate situation bothers you. It does sound like she's taking advantage of your generosity. 

[00:39:46] Now, whether that's malicious or even deliberate, hard to say. She might not be very self-aware. She might just not be thoughtful or maybe she's afraid of confrontation and doesn't want to have the awkward conversation about how to split expenses. This doesn't automatically make her some kind of monster. She's obviously dealing with her own issues too. But either way, it's not fair to you. So I think you need to have a conversation with her. Without accusing her of anything, I would gently tell her that what you're noticing, that she's taking your food, offering it to guests. Ask her if she's aware that she's doing that. Maybe she is, maybe she's not, but even if she is, this is a nice way to ease into the conversation. 

[00:40:23] Then I would tell her that you don't mean to be petty whatsoever, but that this bugs you, right? It doesn't seem very fair. Tell her you're not looking to make her feel bad. You're just asking her to be more thoughtful. You can even tell her what you told us, which is that it's not the money that bothers you, it's the idea that she assumes you won't mind covering the costs. That it makes you feel like maybe you're being taken advantage of and that you don't want to feel that way with her. That's a totally fair point. That would be hard for her to argue with. Because you're really just talking about your experience and then hopefully you guys can just talk it out. Either she does some shopping to even things out, or she kicks in some grocery money, or she just sticks to her own freaking groceries, whatever it is. 

[00:41:03] Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly right. And I know your roommate has an eating disorder. I know she struggles to put herself first. You don't want to trigger some kind of dangerous response in her, get super volatile, ruin that relationship. I totally get it. But the fact that you are walking on eggshells to avoid provoking her, that does seem to be part of the people-pleasing pattern. So if she does end up having an extreme reaction to what you're saying, then it's her responsibility to manage that to not shrink away or spin out or lash out or to relapse in her eating disorder. Just like it's your responsibility to speak up for yourself when you feel like you're being taken advantage of.

[00:41:37] So part of rewriting this bigger people-pleasing thing is really recognizing when you're doing her work in addition to doing your own work. You know, when you were putting her vulnerabilities above your super legitimate needs. And I'm not saying that you need to be a sociopath in order to get your way here, not at all, in fact, quite the opposite, but just holding her stuff alongside your stuff. Not automatically prioritizing her over you, that would be a big step for you. And that's all you really have to do in order to have a straightforward conversation about how two roommates should treat each other. 

[00:42:09] Jordan Harbinger: Good point, Gabe. This conversation, this could be your first opportunity to rewrite this huge pattern in her life, which is great because it's relatively low stakes and she can work her way up to more intense conversations from there. So that's how we'd handle it. Hopefully, you guys can come to a fair agreement, but if she brushes you off and goes back to stealing your Chobani, then you might have to be a little bit more forceful or maybe just find a new roommate who doesn't steal your crap. Sometimes you can't make people do the right thing, you just need to draw a line, wish them well and stay away. That's part of breaking the people-pleasing thing too, that and remembering that you can be generous to people without being a doormat. So good luck, as my Chobani-bish. 

[00:42:49] All right, what's next? 

[00:42:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey Jordan, I'm a recent college grad and after COVID hit, I was fortunate enough to land a position at a medical diagnostic lab. There was only one catch. I had to work the overnight shift and sleep during the day to fit it in. I quickly learned that the lab was geared towards executing a process identically and perfectly. This clashes hard with my personality, which seeks novel approaches to solve problems but at least, I was practicing a technique and developing discipline. I also decided to take a class in the morning after work to pick up some new lab techniques and a certificate. This semester, the course was moved to the afternoon, which is well into my sleep hours. I soured on the night shift, but I couldn't change it. So I started looking for a new job. Then my supervisor told me that the lab is going to train me on the most complex process that we have, which would give me some valuable skills that are sought out by other employers. The problem is I'm not sure I can stand another three months on the graveyard shift. Am I being impatient, trying to talk my way out of learning something new? I had a tendency to avoid challenges in college and that could be happening again. Should I be upfront with my supervisor about the reasons I've been having issues? I don't really want to tell them about the job search, but I also don't want to spring a resignation on them if they've taken the time to train me. So what should I do? Signed, A Reluctant Vampire Seeking the Light. 

[00:44:06] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, the graveyard shift is brutal, man. A lot of people who work nights were nodding along with your letter for sure, truck drivers, police officers, lab techs. It's a tough gig. Gabe, there's so many people that work at night, by the way. I started googling like what jobs are at night? because I was thinking like cops, fire, I don't know who else. There's so freaking many. The fact that you've been able to make it work and take an extra course on top of it in the morning is superhuman level impressive. It sounds like you're prioritizing your growth right now, which is absolutely the right mindset for somebody your age. 

[00:44:35] Basically, you're torn between this weird lifestyle and your desire to learn. And I'm sure the lack of sleep and inverted schedule make it even harder to think through all of this. So my advice is actually pretty simple. If this lab is going to teach you what you need to know to be a great candidate for a better job in the future, I had to consider sticking it out and then start looking for a new job. I know you're tired, but three months in the grand scheme of things, it's kind of nothing. In 12 weeks, you'll learn this complex process that other employers want you to know on top of everything else that you've learned. And then you can apply to jobs that give you a normal schedule again. It seems like a fair exchange. If this job is really making you miserable, I wouldn't advise sticking around for no reason, but if there's this very concrete thing, you're getting out of it, a new skill, project to talk about in your interviews and other cert, whatever it is, that's a reasonable trade off to me.

[00:45:27] But I'm also curious about this thing you mentioned, how you might be talking your way out of learning something new, because you tend to avoid challenges. First of all, that's very self-aware of you to notice in the first place. If that's a pattern of yours, then I definitely would be tracking it. And I'd consciously be trying to rewrite it starting now. And sticking around through this night shift. This could be your opportunity to do it. If your brain is saying, "I don't want to do the work," but translating the message as, "I don't want to do the graveyard shift," then I'd look closely at that, unscramble the message, stick around. At the end of these three months, you'll probably feel way more capable of taking on these challenges. And the next time a challenge comes up, you'll have evidence that you can handle it. You'll have a template for sticking with it, and you'll be less likely to run away. 

[00:46:12] As for how to talk to your supervisor. I don't know if you have to tell them everything upfront, you're allowed to leave a job after you stick with it for the better part of a year. So here's what I do: get through these next three months, add these skills to your arsenal. Then when you really start looking for a new job, tell your supervisor, "Hey, listen, this last year, it's been amazing. I'm so grateful for everything y'all have taught me. I got to be honest, the night shift is killing me. It's becoming really hard. I'm balancing class on top of work. I just don't know how much longer I can do it. I might need to make a change soon." And then at least you're giving them fair warning. Either, they can try to get you onto the day shift or you can jump ship, knowing that you gave them a proper heads up.

[00:46:55] It's thoughtful of you to feel loyal to them. I appreciate that. And you should, to some degree. But I wouldn't overthink this part of it. Put in the work, learn as much as you can be grateful and gracious and pay your supervisor back by being a great employee. Beyond that, you're allowed to make a move. I just wouldn't make it before you've really challenged yourself and gotten everything you can out of this role, because that's what's really going to make this graveyard shift thing worth it for years to come. 

[00:47:22] Gabe, it actually reminds me a little bit of the bar exam. The study period is miserable, right? You got to go watch these dumb classes and you're studying like 10, 12 hours a day, which you shouldn't be anyway, but you feel like you have to, and then when you take the exam, provided you pass, you just never have to even think about it again.

[00:47:40] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. 

[00:47:41] Jordan Harbinger: And this can be one of those times where he's just paying his dues to get this under his belt, knowing that this is temporary and it's nearly finished anyway. And that same principle goes for anyone in any role that they're unhappy with. If things could be better then at least make sure you're still growing, learning, evolving. Sometimes that is the reward for powering through a tough period. But if you're not growing, then it's definitely time to make a change. 

[00:48:05] Hope you all enjoyed that. I want to thank everyone who wrote in this week and everyone who listened. Thank you so much for that. Don't forget the guests from this week. Tamer Elnoury who infiltrated the terrorist group and David Buss on why men specifically cheat in relationships, the social science reasons and the explanations anyway. 

[00:48:21] Want to know how I managed to book all these great people and manage my relationships using software, systems, and tiny habits? It's all in our Six-Minute Networking course, the course is free. It's over on the Thinkific at jordanharbinger.com/course. I know you think you'll do it later, but you can't make up for lost time when it comes to relationships and networking. Do not delay. Dig that well before you get thirsty. Once you need relationships, it's probably too late to build them. The drills, by the way, only take a few minutes per day. That's why we call it Six-Minute Networking. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. It's been crucial for me in my business, and you can find it all for free at jordanharbinger.com/course. 

[00:48:57] A link to the show notes for the episodes is it jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. Videos on our YouTube channel, jordanharbinger.com/youtube. If you want to get in touch I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi. 

[00:49:17] The show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. And remember, we rise by lifting others, share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody who can use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. 

[00:49:53] This episode is sponsored in part by Build for Tomorrow. Stay tuned for a trailer of Build for Tomorrow podcast. 

[00:50:00] Male speaker: The health watch, when people think of addiction, they usually think of drugs and alcohol. But it turns out you can also be addicted to your cell phone and it can have serious effects. 

[00:50:12] Jason Feifer: Is technology addictive? And we are going to answer it for real, with people who know what addiction really is and who study it and who are going to methodically pick apart everything that you've heard before and it is, dare I say, a game changer. 

[00:50:27] Male speaker: And our kids, unfortunately, are getting addicted to smartphones in ways that are not positive for their health. 

[00:50:32] Female speaker: And the apps on platforms that are designed to be addictive and keep kids up. 

[00:50:37] Male speaker: You're checking this and checking texts. And boy, we got a real addiction problem in this country.

[00:50:42] Jason Feifer: Are we going to shake our fists at Stewart, at Slack, at Netflix and these companies and say, "Hey, your product is too engaging. Netflix, your shows are so interesting. I want to watch them all the time." This is ridiculous. We want these companies to make products that we want to use. What is the alternative? Please make sh*tty products that I don't want to use. When does something transform from engaging to addictive? How do we determine what is truly addictive behavior and what is normal behavior that we are simply calling addictive? There are a lot of studies out there showing a correlation between social media use and mental health, but nobody has proven a causation. But if we keep thinking that the product is the source of the problem, then we are not allowing ourselves to understand or to help to solve actual problems. Fundamentally, if we don't look at those deeper reasons why our kids are turning to technology to this extent, the problem will never go away.