549: Mickey Royal | A Pimp’s Secrets of Mind Manipulation Part Two

549: Mickey Royal | A Pimp’s Secrets of Mind Manipulation Part Two

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Coming up next on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:00:03] Mickey Royal: You're Count Dracula. You don't have a mother. You don't have a father. To them, you don't have a family. You don't watch television. I don't own a television in 10 years. You don't keep up with sports. You don't do anything so that you can become everything. You have to separate yourself from the men that you've taught them to manipulate.

[00:00:27] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. We've got in-depth conversations with people at the top of their game, spies, psychologists, astronauts, entrepreneurs, even the occasional Russian chess grandmaster, war correspondent, or economic hitman. Each episode turns our guests' wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. 

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[00:01:11] Today, it's part two with Mickey Royal. If you haven't heard part one, go back and get it now. This is the rest of my conversation with former mob enforcer, gangster, pimp extraordinaire Mickey Royal.

[00:01:23] And if you're wondering how I managed to book guests like this, it's because I know a hell of a lot of people. I'm actively managing my network using software, systems, and tiny habits. And I'm teaching you how to do it for free over at jordanharbinger.com/course. By the way, most of the guests you hear on the show are contributing to the course. They're in the course. Come join us, you'll be in smart company where you belong. 

[00:01:43] Now, here's part two with Mickey Royal. 

[00:01:48] You say pimp must say no to all vices. That's an interesting kind of idea, because that means like, no maybe no drugs, no sex. Why is this? It changes the power dynamic. You know, what's going on here? 

[00:02:02] Mickey Royal: A pimp teaches a woman how to manipulate men. And a lot of people think that a pimp will have to control a woman. No, he's not. He'd have to control the men. See, the man is the fish. The client is the fish. The prostitute is just the worm. So I'm teaching her, but what she notices after the teachings or during teachings that, "Hey, you're a man too. So now you've taught this woman how to master manipulation of testosterone, male, ego, and everything. So it's only natural that she works these feminine wiles on you. Any advice you may have, I call them receptors. You have to silence your receptors. They're just hooks where people hook into you to control. So you can't love money. You can't hate it. It gets to the point where you become a narcissistic sociopath. You become empty, you become hollow. You experienced no joy. You experience no pain. You want no love. You want no hate. You're just an empty room because anything that you have, any emotion, any vice, anything they can hook in and they got you. And it's only natural that she — remember when I say rise above the people that you told that you can be the puppet master.

[00:03:14] See the puppet master can not have any interest, any wants, any lust, any desires, any dreams, any goals, nothing. Why? So he can control your lust, your dreams, your desires. See, I can't manipulate and be manipulated at the same time. In order, I have to cut those strings. Now, you're cutting yourself off from being controlled, but you're also cutting yourself off on any kind of joy or anything that you think you might feel. So what you're doing to them is being done to you by your own admission. You just don't know it yet until you get older and try to leave and go, "Damn, I'm just a screwed up. 

[00:03:47] Jordan Harbinger: Right. I flipped off all the switches because they were vulnerability. And now the programming is no longer running, right? 

[00:03:54] Mickey Royal: Yes. 

[00:03:54] Jordan Harbinger: So no personal relationships. You say never appear human or vulnerable, never be out done. So limit personal relationships. I assume that means like, no talking about your mom or visiting for the holidays and stuff like that. Like that's limited, right? 

[00:04:08] Mickey Royal: That's off limits. You're Count Dracula. You don't have a mother. You don't have a father. To them, you don't have a family. You don't watch television. I haven't owned a television in 10 years. I said, you don't watch television. You don't keep up with sports. You don't do anything so that you can become everything. And that's the only way that you can appear — you have to separate yourself from the men that you've taught them to manipulate. They want things. I used to say, "If you have a want, I can manipulate you. If you have any desire of anything, I can manipulate you or teach others how to." You cannot mislead a person who isn't going anywhere, but if you don't want to need anything and you're sitting still, there would be no manipulation there. 

[00:04:58] Now keep in mind, you've taught these women how to do this to the point of a mastery level, where one woman, I used to know, she slept with a man for $300, but she cried, told a sob story and got 800 more out of him. And I knew one woman who her clients paid for, I think, she had an abortion every day. 

[00:05:14] Jordan Harbinger: Oh, right, so just to pad the invoice. 

[00:05:17] Mickey Royal: Yeah, because the married clients, she's like, "I think I'm pregnant." "Well, here's the money for that." I think five different guys pay for the same imaginary abortion because she could cry on cue because of the things I taught her. What's to stop her from trying that with me? "You know, my son, he just got hit by a car." I was like, "Nice try." "Yeah, I'm going to go get you one day." "Nice try." I was like, "Oh, you're good." 

[00:05:40] Jordan Harbinger: I hopeI hope he's okay, but I'm not going to do anything about that. 

[00:05:42] Mickey Royal: You know, you have to learn because emotions are their tools in which they work with and that's their weapons. And you are a man and you are the only man in their lives. You're the lover, you're their father, you're their brother, you're their protector, you're their Dr. Phil. When they cry, they cry in your arms. When they tell stories about, you know, "Certain basketball star wanted me to do this, that, and the other." I'm the one hearing that. I'm the one sitting there with her on my lap. I'm also the one motivating her to go to work. All of her emotions are connected to me. So naturally knowing what she knows now, she's going to try to do that with you, not even knowingly, not even on purpose. It's just become who she is now. 

[00:06:21] Jordan Harbinger: You say, "Right when she thinks she knows the rules, I alter them, keeping her always on her toes, wondering and off balanced and somewhat intrigued. I've been doing it for so long. It's just a natural instinct at this point." So it sounds like what you're saying is that same thing happens to them too. So you're training them how to do that because you're doing that with you. How did you phrase this? Hold on. I've got it here. It says, "No matter how long you dance with the devil, the devil never changes the song. The devil changes you. So you change a woman before her eyes. No matter how you sneak up on a mirror, it always looks you right in the eyes." 

[00:06:53] Mickey Royal: Yeah. You literally transformed them, but you're transforming yourself at the same time. 

[00:06:59] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Right. You don't know what's happening. It's not safe to dabble in this because it sucks you in, based on your insecurities.

[00:07:05] Mickey Royal: Yeah. Because once it sucks you in and you learn a certain level of mind control, anything that was insecure about you no longer is because I have 20 of the most gorgeous women telling me I'm the most handsomest man in the world. And that was something I was insecure about in grade school. You know, I have an aversion for women who are six-feet tall. And like one woman said, "In my heels, I'm 6"5", you're 5'7" but I find myself looking up to." See, I'm 10-feet tall around her, in her presence. And she's all powerful than my presence. So we can't separate. So anything that was insecure about you that you thought, it evaporates. So that's part of the allure that sucks you in. You know, if I can be a God here, why would I be a human anywhere else?

[00:07:54] Jordan Harbinger: Describe this, or at least part of the game, is emotional loansharking with exaggerated interest. So you're selling her a fantasy lifestyle, right? One of the hooks you use to get some of the women in as you sell her a fantasy lifestyle, but she can never fully attain it. Right? It's like they get a taste of it, but they never can satisfy their appetite for it.

[00:08:15] Mickey Royal: Well, the appetite, if not financial, so there's a great big hole inside of her. That she's trying to feel. And what she doesn't understand is the more she tries to fill it, the bigger the whole expands. And like I told one woman that I went to heal, because I can work backwards. I said, "There's a hole inside of you. Just like me, but I'm not incomplete because I decided to be a donut." See, a donut has a hole inside of it, but it's not incomplete. A tire has a hole inside of it, but it's not incomplete because when she goes back into her PTSD thing, I always tell her, "Be a donut. You're not a damaged human being. You're an altered human being." I said, "You went from a caterpillar to a butterfly. These wings aren't strange. This is just your new phase. You're no longer a caterpillar. So don't think because you don't have all these legs anymore, that you're a defective caterpillar with these wings on your back. You've just become a butterfly." You know, helping her through the PTSD. I said, "You're a different human being now, you're an altered human being," but yes, it is emotional loansharking. And it's an emotional and psychological twist and game. 

[00:09:18] It's not financial. See, the fantasy is not financial. The fantasy is emotional. The fantasy is psychological. It has nothing to do with money. That's why you'll find one with a lot of money and they might commit suicide. Or you might have some with a lot of money and they're just sitting there on drugs. It's something that they're not getting that money can't supply that you have to supply. That relationship you see a lot in sadomasochistic relationships. The dominant and the recessive— 

[00:09:46] Jordan Harbinger: Submissive. Yeah, the submissive.

[00:09:47] Mickey Royal: Yes. They think that the master is in control of the sub. Not really. So they don't understand masochism. The master is only a master with the sub. So who needs whom the most? Because without the sub, then the master is just some guy that works at Jiffy Lube. He's not a master, but he needs that sub in order to create that part of him. It's just that the sub is tied up, but the sub —that's what I call the power in submission or the power that truly lies behind the throne and not on it.

[00:10:24] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. This makes sense. And you detail a lot of this in the book. I mean, there's even things like contract negotiations and one sample is, "If she comes and says she has a better offer from another pimp, don't lash out or get angry, give her a better offer. She's not saying she wants to leave. She's asking you to give her a reason to stay," which is just about like any other job offer or a contract negotiation in any other industry that you'd normally hear about.

[00:10:47] Mickey Royal: Yeah. If she says, "Well, I'm going to go over here and dance at so-and-so," you know, they do this, that, and the other. I said, "Well, good luck over there. That's good for you." I said, "I would take that job too, but where are you going to be? Okay. Yeah. Cause see the rest of us. We're about to start making these adult films and we're going to make six times more than that. And if something opens up, I'll give you a call." And she's like, "When are you starting that?" "Oh, we're going to start that Tuesday." "Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute now. Wait a minute." "No, no good luck — oh, sure, sure, you can always come back. Oh, you don't want to leave." 

[00:11:18] Well, it's just like anything else, you know, once you become a free agent. And you have to keep in mind, in that life, you're always a free agent. You can walk out at any time. So that's what when you go in back to what a pimp's job is. I have to constantly make you not want to leave. Oh, also a movie is doing extras. Well, a lot of these girls — this is in my third novel. I'm skipping ahead, 10 years. Websites started coming into play. So a lot of them had their websites. So like I told someone, I said, "How much would you pay?" I don't know if I've told you this before. I said, "How much would you pay to have sex with a Puerto Rican girl? Very pretty Puerto Rican girl." "What? $300, $400." I said, "How much would you pay to have sex with Cardi B?" "$50,000, $60,000?" I said, "Okay. My job is to transform a Puerto Rican girl with bad diction into Cardi B." Now, I don't have a record company to do that, but I did have a production company distributed by Hustler, distributed by Gentleman's. So, "I can put you — so you have sex two, three times a day for a certain amount of money. How would you like to have sex with one time? I cut you in a percentage. I put you on this box cover and they distributed to 20, 30, 40,000 outlets at $5 each." I say, "How would you like that? Now, when they go to your website, you don't have a hundred subscribers. Now you've got 4,000 or 5,000 because you're known in Spain. You're knowin Uruguay. You're known in Australia. You got people flying in from Dubai, just to be with you because you're not a Puerto Rican girl anymore. You're Cardi B. You're Madonna." Even though your looks haven't changed in the service that you're providing hasn't changed. So what I did was multiply your income because I've proved to a woman that I can give you 50 percent and you will make 10 times more than the 100 percent you have now. I said, "Give me 90 days." It didn't take longer than 30. Because now she's getting those calls. Now, she has politicians looking for her and she hasn't changed. She's still the Puerto Rican girl from the Bronx, but now she's Cardi B. And I'm using her as an example. Not that I had any dealings with her. When I was doing this, I don't think she was born when I first got here. She's like in her 20s. 

[00:13:18] Jordan Harbinger: You're just talking about branding now. You're talking about branding and marketing. 

[00:13:21] Mickey Royal: Right. I said, you know why women are on a corner? The only reason you put women on the track is just to be seen. Now, if I can put you on Internet sites and if I can let you do this out of your home and I can bring webcams there and I can set up customers coming in from here and there and the other, why would you stand outside? That just devalues you and it puts you at risk, but a lot of guys who were pimps, they do that for their own natural ego. Look, what I got that girl to do? I didn't have to do that. I didn't come from that back. I came from a far more dangerous background. So to me being a pimp was actually almost like a vacation. It was very easy for me and I rent — you can only bring to the party which you already have. So I brought my organization skills to that. Like I said, I used to watch Charlie's Angels. I used to study things like that. And that's what I want in an agency. And that's what we became. 

[00:14:17] Jordan Harbinger: Now you talk about knocking, which is like breaking someone down or training a lion. You say, "Figure out what she needs. Is it fame? Is it love? And figure it out before they do. Offer it to her, but never deliver." That seems like — look, I guess it is like training. I don't know much about training a lion but what does this mean? How do you figure out what they want before they do? What are you listening for them? What are you looking for? 

[00:14:40] Mickey Royal: Body language, words that they use, their eyes. You know, I remember one time I had one lady, I went over to her house and she was sitting there and I was sitting in, I remember because they had an abnormally large chair in there and I remember my feet didn't touch the ground and I looked like a kid in it. So I just kept wiggling my feet, like a kid, like, "Why is this chair so big?" One of those known as goofy chairs. And I saw her sister come out from the back and she was pretty, but her sister was drop dead gorgeous. And I saw the young lady's eyes drop and go back up like, "Oh, I didn't know she was here." So what I did was I maintained eye contact with her. I started talking about how pretty the girl I was there with and I ignored the sister. I was the only guy that ever did that. So in my presence, that's given her an idea that I am the most beautiful woman in the world, as long as I'm with him. And if I can be that with him, what he asks me or needs me, or tells me to do is immaterial because what I'm getting from him is priceless. So that was just one example, but that had more extreme examples. But when your mind has been conditioned a certain way, you see and pick up on this all day, it doesn't mean if I told you I was an avid poker player, you wouldn't be surprised, I'm sure, because I can read the person. 

[00:15:57] Jordan Harbinger: This makes sense, right? That what you're sort of, or what you said is, "So the dynamic, there was every time she's with a guy at the house and her sister walks in the guys, always, they light up and they switched the attention to the sister because she's prettier, so her whole life has been in the shadow of her prettier sister." And you're saying you consciously — it seems like you're saying, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You're not shifting your attention to the prettier sister. In fact, you're ignoring her and that causes, well, both causes the prettier sister to be like, "Wait, why isn't this guy falling into the usual dynamic?" But also the woman that you're with, who's used to the attention then leaving her doesn't happen. So this is a rare occurrence and it's so she's getting something that she doesn't get ever, which is to be the center of attention, even when her sister is around. So you're giving a power and a feeling that she's never had or that she never gets. 

[00:16:45] Mickey Royal: Right. And the other one gets the reverse dynamic. Often I've gotten them both. And I told one person, I went through a family, like a recessive gene, mother, daughters, aunties, because I gave them all individually what they needed without changing myself. Therefore, if they're all getting separate things, they're not jealous when we're all in the same company.

[00:17:07] Jordan Harbinger: Right. Okay. Interesting. You say, "You must outshine everything in her world. You know, you've done it when she's showing you off to friends and family. People don't get out of the game because everybody is getting what they need. The pimp gets cash. She gets love. The trick gets sex." And this sounds like that scenario, right? So the pretty sister in this story is getting — she's chasing you because she's like, "What's going on here?" 

[00:17:28] Mickey Royal: Exactly. 

[00:17:29] Jordan Harbinger: And you're maybe giving her a shot at fame or some other thing that she wants that you figured out. The less pretty sister in this example is getting power, attention, love, whatever it is. And so you just figure out what everybody in that situation needs and you give it to them, but not enough that they feel satisfied. You just keep them chasing you for more. 

[00:17:48] Mickey Royal: Actually, I'll give her both of them at the same time. One is chasing me because she's being ignored. The other one's chasing me because she's the center of attention. I'm in the same room with both of them. And I used to do it like 1, 2, 3, a little bit over here. 1, 2, 3, a little bit over here. See, you don't hurt the middle sister. She was the middle child. You don't hurt the middle sister by ignoring her. That's her comfort zone. That's what she grew up being. She's Jan Brady. You don't hurt her about that. You don't get her attention by that. You get Marcia Brady. The one who's used to getting the attention, the oldest one, the fine one. You get her attention by ignoring her. You get the middle one's attention by her being the center of attention. And she gets addicted to that. 

[00:18:31] See, if you want to lose the pretty sister, tell her how pretty she is. She's been here since age five. Tell her how pretty she is. Open your mouth and let your tongue drool out. Well, that happens every time she walks out to check the mail. So you're the salmon swimming upstream. You can't help but be noticed. And that's the point they're constantly watching you. Why? What am I doing? I'm just sitting here. But I know exactly what I'm doing. What Cheyanne used to call — because she's lived with me so long. She knows all of this. Because I used to tell her, "I've trained you too well, Young Padawan." And she'll say, "You're working the room." I said, "Yeah." She'll say, "You literally moving people around. I can see you doing it. You did this, that, and the other." I said, "I need to stop telling you so much," but our relationship is different.

[00:19:12] Jordan Harbinger: It's different obviously at this point, right? 

[00:19:14] Mickey Royal: I'm not in a life anymore. And I plan to marry the woman. So we've gone through everything together. 

[00:19:18] Jordan Harbinger: In the book, there's an example of this woman, Coffee. And she says, "Oh, am I talking too much?" And you note in the book, "My fangs drip." You call them like your vampire fangs, "My fangs drip at the sound of self-evaluating questions. Coffee," this is her name, "Was unknowingly falling into a pre spun web that permanently orbits those in the ism." And the ism is what you call like the game of like the it's like the venom that or whatever that, that's the magic mojo, whatever. 

[00:19:46] Mickey Royal: It's the mysticism of it, yeah. 

[00:19:48] Jordan Harbinger: "The size of the web depends on the depth of the ism that dwells within the individual. As much as I attempted to control it, the power seeped through. 'No, Coffee, you don't talk too much. Why do you say that?' I asked to measure the depth of her insecurities only to use them against her for my personal gain at a later date. So that sounds crazy manipulative, right? You see that too, right? 

[00:20:07] Mickey Royal: That guy sounds evil? 

[00:20:08] Jordan Harbinger: He sounds like a bad dude.

[00:20:11] Mickey Royal: I can tell people is it's done on purpose and it's premeditated, but no, when she asked me — the reason my fangs drip wasn't because she asked me if she's talking too much, she was seeking my approval of something personally with inside her. It's the same as do I look fat in this? Does this dress fit? See, it's not about the dress. The reason for the fangs dripping is that, oh, you need my approval. So depending on my answer affects your emotion, either being happy or sad or insecure. You're basically grabbing a hook, putting it inside of yourself and putting the rope around my hand. So let me decide which way I want to pull this for my long-term gain or short-term gain. At that point, I could have gone either way with it because you're looking for my approval. It had nothing to do with whether she was talking too much. What you're saying is that my opinion, my outside opinion matters to you right now at this point, more than your inside thoughts and more than your inside opinion.

[00:21:09] So the dynamic has switched right then and there from that question. So that's why my fangs drip had dripped like, oh, this is going to be good. Oh, she's unbeknownst. Oh, she's a little bunny rabbit. Thought she found some little toys to play with. No, those are rattlesnake eggs. And mama was creeping up on behind you. And what you don't know is she didn't leave her nest. Her nest is bait. That's what you don't know. She left the eggs there because she knows you liked those. And she went right around and sat there and waited. The snake left his nest. No, it didn't. It set a trap. You just won't know it until you feel that bite and that venom releases through you. It's a very sinister game.

[00:21:51] Jordan Harbinger: You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Mickey Royal. We'll be right back. 

[00:21:56] This episode is sponsored in part by Build for Tomorrow. That's a highly produced narrative show. Each episode digs deep into a big question, historical moment, or a critical innovation that can help us understand how change happens. It hits a lot of notes, history, technology, business, psychology, and general curiosity about the world. But the overarching theme is that change can be positive and it will always benefit when we focus on the opportunities ahead. So, if you want a future-proof of your life and career, Jason, we'll unpack some of your greatest fears of change and help you feel more adaptable and optimistic. Each episode is deeply researched, but also fast paced and funny aims to answer big questions about our history and ourselves. Like, for example, why are we so obsessed with the good old days and was any time in history, actually a golden age or just named so afterwards? Are we really addicted to technology? Why do people hate being told what to do and how we can change their behavior anyway? And why does every older generation always think the younger generation sucks? So if you like my show, check out Build for Tomorrow, wherever you get your podcasts and stay tuned after this episode of the show for a trailer of Build for Tomorrow, right at the end of the day. 

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[00:23:57] Jordan Harbinger: And now back to Mickey Royal on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:24:02] Yeah, it sure sounds like it. There's a couple other techniques that I caught from the book. Constantly reframing to maintain the leader role. You don't frame it like that, but that's what it is, right? "I pointed to Coffee with my index finger signaling for her to stand up. I didn't like how Sweet Pea," which is another girl, "Cut me off about her date coming by as if she was trying to get us to leave. So I had to counter as if leaving was still my idea, the power lies behind choice and the balance of power must always be dictated by me." So in this situation, what happened was you, you were like picking up some money and one of the girls was like, "Oh, here's your money?" And then sort of pissed her off or whatever. So she goes, "Anyway, I got somebody coming over." Like in other words, you have to leave. You basically flipped it around. So that leaving was your idea and not hers.

[00:24:47] And you're constantly kind of, this is like the aikido thing again, where you're establishing dominance quickly, positioning yourself for negotiation leverage or to maintain the dominant status in any social interaction, reminding people that you carry more weight in a financial transaction or in a social environment, but even in these nuanced, small engagements with people, you already know you're doing this, not just with like new business contracts at a negotiating table. It's constantly going on because if you don't maintain that the people you work with will, or the women will decide that they can take advantage of you. It's like a very competitive, nuanced competition going on as subtext all the time. 

[00:25:26] Mickey Royal: Yes it is. And I don't think Sweet Pea did that on purpose, but what she did, she altered the status quo. 

[00:25:31] Jordan Harbinger: Right. 

[00:25:31] Mickey Royal: See, my hooks were so deep into her at the time that she could have said anything. It's not going to alter our dynamic at all. 

[00:25:38] Jordan Harbinger: Right. It wasn't, it's not going to throw everything off balance, but it sounds like you're thinking about death by a thousand paper cuts. Like you can't even let one crack show. 

[00:25:46] Mickey Royal: No. 

[00:25:46] Jordan Harbinger: Right. 

[00:25:46] Mickey Royal: And what it was going to do was change the way Coffee — so she wouldn't have known the change had taken place, but she would have spoken to me differently in the car and I was doing something. So I had to make it seem like all the orders came from me anyway. So instead of Sweet Pea saying, making it seem like she's pushing us out, I just made it seem like, "She knows me so well, she can read my thoughts before I even opened my mouth." So again, that's just an ultra submissive, like, "Okay, it's nine o'clock. We got to drop the fries." Now, I'm the manager at the restaurant. That's my line. We have to drop the fries. But if the employees yell that out and in order for me to keep status quo, I'm like, "You're learning, you're learning. I like that." So still, I'm in control. I'm in the power. You don't tell my employees what to do, even though it is a fry-dropping time drop, that's my line. That's what I say. So in order to maintain that, I just have to make it seem like you're well trained. 

[00:26:43] Jordan Harbinger: This is interesting. And this reminds me of when I used to do a lot of the dating instruction and stuff like that back in my 20s and 30s, and you're super familiar with this, because you basically invented and mastered all of this, but like some women would say like, especially like tall, beautiful women that were above out of my league, so to speak. They'd walk up to me — I'd be talking with them and they'd go, "I want a cigarette or something like that," or, "I want to drink." And I would say, "All right, go get us two drinks." And she'd be like, "No, you get it." And I go, "Yeah, I'll have a gin and tonic, I'll be right here." And she'd be like, "All right." And she would go off and either buy or get someone else to buy us drinks. And my friend would go, "What was that about?" And I'm like, "Trust me. If I go get her a drink, she's going to be like, 'Bye," and that's going to be it if she's even here, when I come back with a drink, but then that would routinely, she would come back with drinks and I'd be done halfway through mine. She'd go, 'Do you want another one?' You know? And I go, 'Yeah, yeah, let's get another one,' or, 'Hold on, let's get it one in a few minutes.'" And it was exhausting and I don't love that I was doing this, but when you're in your 20s, you're playing these games all the time, especially with women in bars and stuff.

[00:27:46] But it's like this subtle jousting or checkers or whatever you want to call it. And if you screw it up, then you get nowhere. And that's why a lot of guys would complain like, "I can't believe it. She said she wanted a drink and I went and bought one and she gave it to this other guy." And then I'm like, "Now, I'm that other guy." "Why does she buy a drink for me? "Well, because I told her to." "Why did you buy a drink for her?" "Because you wanted her approval." 

[00:28:06] Mickey Royal: Right. 

[00:28:06] Jordan Harbinger: Things like that, subtle things like this. But you're doing, you're living your whole life like this, right? It's not like an hour long thing at a bar on a Friday night. Like this is your entire business, your entire life is managed like this. 

[00:28:17] Mickey Royal: 24 hours a day, seven days a week. When you said the bar story, which I mean, basically I teach those techniques. 

[00:28:24] Jordan Harbinger: I'm sure. 

[00:28:24] Mickey Royal: That happened to me in my 20s. And her name was Promiscuous. That was actually her dance name, not her legal name, of course. 

[00:28:30] Jordan Harbinger: Right. That would be a terrible legal name to grow up with, yeah.

[00:28:33] Mickey Royal: That was her name because I remember I asked her, I said, "What's your name?" She said, "Promiscuous." I said, "What did you say?" And she got in my face and said, "Promiscuous." I said, "Oh, okay." And we were leaning against this wall. She said, "I'll have sex with you for 50." And I looked at her and because obviously she didn't know who I was. I said, "50? If you want to have sex with me, it's going to cost you at least 700." 

[00:28:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I was going to say, "You should pay me." 

[00:28:55] Mickey Royal: She fell out laughing. She said, "Who are you?" And that began like a two-year work relationship. But yeah, I say 50 because she was implying that I should pay her for— 

[00:29:05] Jordan Harbinger: Of course, yeah. You've reframed it as she just gave you an offer, but it was bad.

[00:29:09] Mickey Royal: Yeah. I say, "If we're going to have sex with each other, it's going to cost you at least 700," and she just fell out laughing. 

[00:29:15] Jordan Harbinger: It's the reframes, right? And you mentioned this, you say, "She enslaves herself, you dangle the carrot. Slot machines give you just enough to take it all." So that's some of the dangling, but it's also the reframing. You've got a lot of really sort of interesting techniques in here. Never say I don't know. If you don't know, you say I don't care." And that's important to show almost like infallibility, right? You're never shown weakness. You don't ask questions of your own. You create an air of admiration and curiosity and mystery. 

[00:29:41] Mickey Royal: Yeah. 

[00:29:42] Jordan Harbinger: These kinds of responses — in fact, I think you even say something along these lines, they're designed to create almost more questions than answers at the same time, right? So the more answers other people have about you, the more questions she's supposed to create for herself, but if she's getting enough answers where the mystery fades away, you lose that power.

[00:30:00] Mickey Royal: Well, who has questions? Students, children, amateurs. Those are inferior positions. See, a student is not a student. He's a person or she's a person. A student has only a student when they have a teacher. An amateur is only an amateur when there's a professional. That's like saying I'm an amateur glue bottle opener. No, I'm not, but unless there's a professional glue bottle opener that exists now I'm an amateur glue bottle opener. So if you're the infallible one and you keep that status quo, they must always be asking questions and they must be always trying to figure you out because it's not the fact that they're asking questions. It's not the fact that they get answers to their questions. It's the fact that they have the need to find out something that they know or feel you have the answer to.

[00:30:51] There's something bigger going on here? It has nothing to do with what you're asking me. You can ask me, they say, "Hey, man, where's the exit?" No, it's not the fact that you're trying to get out of the movie theater. It's the fact that you walked up to me out of all these people, because you feel, I know the directions of where to go and that's what's important. And you keep that frame of mind, whatever you do in life. Ask me because I have the answers. And if I don't, like you said, it doesn't matter. I don't care. And you shouldn't either. And you know what they'll say? Okay. 

[00:31:23] Jordan Harbinger: Early in the book, you take the girls out of their comfort zone or you say like one of the first interactions might be, you take a girl who's from the hood, you take her to Beverly Hills and they feel off and they feel — you tell them to dress in a certain way. And it's maybe not quite a good fit for where you're going. Like "Dress up like we're going to the strip club." So they were like revealing clothes. Then you take them to a really classy restaurant and they're looking awkward. They're feeling off. People are staring at them. So they're looking at you for leadership. Or you take a rich girl and you take her to the hood. You say cocktail dress. And then you take her to like some fried chicken place in the middle of the hood at one o'clock in the morning. And everyone's like, oh, and gawking and making comments. And they're meek, they're powerless, they're afraid. So they're getting as close to you as they can, because you're the safety in the situation. 

[00:32:06] Mickey Royal: I put that one time on Facebook in a group. And they said, guys who think you need money to make a woman listen to you or follow you or admire you? I said, "What if the woman is rich? How do you get there?" I said, "I can get Kim Kardashians." And I'm just using that as an example, because that's a rich, young woman that came to my mind. So there's no particular reason why I'm using that name. And I said, "How would you get her? How would you impress her?" I said, "I assure you there are things she's never seen." "Well, a woman like that has seen everything." I said, "No, she hasn't. She's never been to a low-rider show on Crenshaw Boulevard on Sunday night at eight o'clock. She's never been to street races in east LA. She's never had a taco in this particular neighborhood. She's never witnessed an actual gang shootout." I said, "There's tons of things I can take her to. She's probably never been to an authentic soul food restaurant. She's never done these things. She's probably never been fishing on a dirty ass Mississippi lake." I said, "I bet you, she's never done those things. And she will look to you — she's still a woman. Her money does not affect her estrogen." I said, "I would take her where she's never been." "Oh, you thought I was talking about taking her to restaurants that she actually knows the owner and can buy. That's a dummy move. That's a really dummy move. No, we'd be standing in east LA eating street tacos. That's what we'd be doing. We'd be playing — have a water balloon fight. I bet you, she hasn't done that in the middle of the street. I bet you she's never come to a neighborhood car wash where you actually have to wash your own car and pay for the privilege. She's never done that. I bet she never done low riding down Crenshaw bouncing up and down in that 64 Apollo. I bet you she's never done those things. And I bet you she'll be as happy as a little kid at a Disneyland Park if she were." I said, "You took her to some place that she's familiar with. I keep them with the unfamiliar." Why? Because if I'm familiar with something she's unfamiliar with it, and then she's always looking for me asking me questions. Is my dress too long? Then we go back to that same dynamic again. So yes, there is a way to have a woman who's worth $30 million, but has to question her every move to get affirmation from you. It's just the world that you took her in. I'm bringing her into mine. It's where I rule. 

[00:34:12] Jordan Harbinger: You're able to calculate what a woman is worth in your business in seconds. And I think that is kind of interesting, right? You do it in the book really, really quickly on the fly. How do you do that? 

[00:34:22] Mickey Royal: From experience using numbers. I do numbers really well, very fast in my head. And it's like, consider yourself a football coach. On my team, everybody can play. When my son is about, let's say my son is 110 pounds. He's five 11. He can't play football. He's too little. No, he's my wide receiver. Well, I got this nephew, he's 300 pounds and he's 5'5". Good, I need a center. Well, I got my other son over here. He's delicate. He doesn't like to be hit and he wants to play soccer. Well, he'll be my placekicker. See, I can make everyone a star. They just want to play the same position, but they will all be football players. And I can see just looking and sizing them up. I'm able to do that really quick. I do it in poker and you can teach that. It's a different approach. After a while it becomes so natural. I mean, I can't turn it off when I meet anyone, primarily women, it can be a target. "Could you tell me where so-and-so is?" Already, it's just already going through my head even, and I try to turn it off. Sometimes like when you're with someone who is from that life, also, you guys have to stop with each other and be like, "Okay, don't speak that language. Don't speak Tiffany's to me." "Oh, sorry." Because you both have to turn it off. Because it's constantly on. You're constantly — it's like two con men get married. Like, "Look, we're not going to have much of a relationship if we don't turn the switches off, okay." 

[00:35:45] When you do something for so long, it becomes so natural. It just becomes who you are. It's what you see. You know, you read the woman's eyes, you read this, you read body language. Like I told some dude, I said, "She's going to reject you." He said, "How do you know before I walk over there?" I said, "Because you looked at your shoes twice before walking up. And if you looked at her body language, her whole shoulder shifted when you did that. It showed such a lack of confidence that she's no longer interested in you. She had you built up in her mind looking across the bar at you because you're so handsome. You don't look so handsome to her anymore." I said, "Watch what happen?" And they always come back, "Man, you're right." I said, "You're not looking at what I'm looking at. You don't see it as fast as I do, but I could show you." I said, "But we go out and do these social events."

[00:36:26] I saw one girl — lady, I shouldn't say girl, this is a grown woman. This was after I came out. So this is really recent. This was, gosh, I was still at the halfway house and this was on a weekend pass and I took a friend to a bar/club, whatever. And we were looking at women, and I do this with sports, sometimes. I still have my eye on the same woman that I wanted to be with. You know, the one I've been with for like 17 years. So we were just out and I was going to pull her in the middle, the one that's looking at me. We were sitting not too far from the door and I sent her a drink and I sent her another drink and I sent her three. And he said, "She barely looks up at you and smiles. Why do you keep sending her drinks?" "Oh, you thought it was because she was thirsty." "No, I'll show you in a minute." And I said, "See, the alpha female, one who's holding the car keys and keeps pulling it out, reminding she's the alpha female. She's not the attractive one. If I go up and talk to her in a group of those girls, the alpha female, who's not as attractive, is going to be jealous. And she's going to shut that down." Because I noticed that when the alpha female laughs the whole table laughs. And when I want to laugh last, but she's looking for permission to laugh. I said, "So she's a nice beta female." He said, "Then why are you sending her drinks?" I said, "Wait a sec." and then she got up and she was walking across as she walked past. I said, "I didn't send her drinks because she looked thirsty. I sent the drinks because I needed her to get up and go to the bathroom." So when she went to the restroom, I said, "Watch this." 

[00:37:46] Now that she's separated from them. And she can't look to her group for should I like this guy? Should I give him my number? What do you guys think of him? If she's beta you can't get into her comfort zone. So I always tell guys, extend your arm. Imagine her arm extended. Put those arms down. Don't come any closer than that. So I'm at least five feet away from her. I don't come into their comfort zone until I'm invited in. So I stopped right there. She said, "You're sending me drinks." I said, "Yeah, I was sending you the drinks. I hope those are your favorite. Those are my favorite. So I assume that other people may like them too." And we got to talk and I think it lasted about 20 seconds. She went and got her purse, but see, she can go get her person separate from them. She can't bring me over there to gain approval because if I don't get approval, she's going to change your mind and sit back down. 

[00:38:30] Jordan Harbinger: Right. So you brought her outside of the context in which she has to look to other people for approval by filling up her bladder basically. Then she was able to make her own decision. 

[00:38:39] Mickey Royal: Yeah. But I didn't so much do that, planned on purpose, that's just the way my mind thinks after so many years, after several decades of thinking this way. So I said, how can I separate her from the pack? When one of them goes to the restroom, they all go. When one of them hit the dance floor, they all go. And I can see that the other chick is going to hate on me because anything that the girl I want smiles over here, the other one has that ew look on her face. I said, no, she's going to shut it down. Plus she's the one with the car keys. They all came in the same car. So when she's ready to go, all of them have to go. I said, I have to separate them. So how do I separate them? If I walk up and ask her to dance with me, if I don't get the approval of the other girls, they're going to laugh at me. So I have to separate her from the pack. So, yeah, it's time for her to go to the bathroom, "Bartender, another strawberry daiquiri to that woman right there."

[00:39:25] Jordan Harbinger: So this is all on autopilot for you at this point. 

[00:39:28] Mickey Royal: Yeah. When I want it to be, I have the ability to turn it off because like I told someone, you can get a lot of chicks doing this. I mean a lot, I mean like 20, 30. I can teach you how to do that very easily. I say it, but if you look at for true love, you're not going to find it that way. You have to use the force. You have to turn it off. 

[00:39:45] Jordan Harbinger: That's an important note because it's important that you say, "Oh, well, you're not going to find what you really want from this. This is a power game." 

[00:39:55] Mickey Royal: It depends on what you want. Some people don't want that, but if you're looking for that in a locked finger — well, you can get that too but if I'm manipulating you to get it, is it really real? It's like, I know I'm a prince, but I'm going to come to you as a frog because I don't want you to see the prince on the outside. I want you to really see the prince on the inside. Now, what my stuff works for a lot of young men, because they're not interested in it. I wasn't interested in that. 

[00:40:20] Jordan Harbinger: They're looking for short-term mating strategies, yeah. 

[00:40:23] Mickey Royal: I remember one time, I was able to, when my stable started to what they call leak, some people started to leave whatever, and I needed eight more women really fast because if you got a house with five bedrooms and you've rented it. This is a high rent. It's high maintenance. Now, you only got two women there, but you still got these empty bedrooms. And now at this other house, you might have three, you got two empty bedrooms here. So your bills haven't changed. Only your money has been cut. So you have to fill those rooms. So the quickest way I did that was when I went to a strip club one time, I noticed, I figured out who the alpha female was. Easily just by looking around. It didn't take me long and she wasn't the most attractive. And she is usually the oldest. I got to her and I knocked her because I knew if I get her, I get all the rest of them because they do what she tells them to do. So I was able to pull eight, which is knocking two from two different strip clubs in the same week. And I was able to fill those rooms up because I don't have to talk to each individual woman. I just have to talk to the one that they listened to. And that's the one I took out and we had our conversation.

[00:41:26] Jordan Harbinger: What's the range that pimps typically make? I mean, it's obviously what, I started doing some of the math, from the book. And I was like, okay, they're making millions of dollars. Like with everything all said and done, millions of dollars. Most guys are not, they're making like a couple hundred bucks or a couple thousand bucks a week maybe. And then they're living in some motel room on the side of the road. 

[00:41:45] Mickey Royal: Well, when you say pimp, it's not a monolith, it's a wide range. 

[00:41:49] Jordan Harbinger: It's an industry, right? It's like saying you're a hairdresser. Do you have a chain of fine salons? Or do you have corner barbers or do you work out of your garage, right? 

[00:41:56] Mickey Royal: Exactly. And those guys have one, maybe two girls, the motel things. No, they're not really making a lot of money because it's not a lot of money on the street. And no, they're not. A lot of them are not making money. They're breaking even, and they're surviving and heaven help you. If you throw a drug habit in there, or a lot of vices or just party vices, marijuana, alcohol, but if you're taking it to a different level, yeah, you're making a lot of money. It depends on the level of activity in which you yourself provide in the realm. I mean, you can be the king of Guam or you can be the king of dissolved Russia. Russia is a much bigger country. Now, if you're the king of Guam, you're still a king, but it's just a much smaller country with smaller industries. So they can't produce what the king of England might be able to produce. So it depends on the level of game that's inside the man or woman. Don't make it think it's all a man-woman dynamic. 

[00:42:53] Jordan Harbinger: We hear about madams all the time, right? And it's just a female thing. 

[00:42:56] Mickey Royal: Yeah. I've met quite a few that have some heavy game, you know, some heavy game and they mostly come off as mothers. Well, a lot of people think that most of these women have daddy issues. That's not really true. They mostly have mommy issues. That's why the pimp uses the bottom woman. My ex-wife, she's coming from the life. She was 12 years older than I am. She can get way more women than I can, and I can pull a lot of them. We used to go out and compete and her favorite line was, "Come here, come to mama." She said, "They can't resist that because they never had that." She said, "Daddy, he was never there. Mama is the one who's loved they tried to get." She said, "How can you get a person's love who's not there?" She said, "I represent someone physically that they had a relationship with that they can repair through me now." Her game was superb too. I learned quite a bit from her, but she was 12 years my senior. And she had been doing this since she was 15. So I don't want people to think that, oh, because he's a pimp and she's a prostitute. He is smarter than her. That's not always the case. I said to Nat Geo, I said, "A smart prostitute will make a fool out of a stupid pimp any day, any day." 

[00:44:05] Jordan Harbinger: This is The Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest Mickey Royal. We'll be right back. 

[00:44:10] This episode is sponsored in part by Sugarwish. Sugarwish is the fastest way to send a sweet gift to a friend, colleague, or loved one. They got sweet candy, tasty popcorn cookies, scrumptious snacks. There's even dog treats, so you don't leave out their furry friends. You can add a personal message and hit send. It's that fast and that easy. That special friend, family member, colleague, potential business partner receives a Sugarwish slack, text, or email. What's cool about this is they get a link to choose exactly what they would want. So you're not just sending them like, "Oh, thanks for the candied, whatever." And they're like, "Ugh." You know, they get to pick the stuff from the link and they get a variety pack. There's tons of options from Swedish Fish, Sour Patch Kids, oatmeal raisin cookies, gourmet popcorn, crunchy snacks, like wasabi peas. Okay, those are my favorites. Jen's like, "Ew." If you've got a friend whose birthday is coming up, send them a Sugarwish gift link via text.

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[00:47:24] Don't forget we've got worksheets for many episodes, not all, but many of this show if you want some of the drills and exercises talked about during these episodes. Those are in one easy place. And that link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com/podcast. 

[00:47:36] And now for the rest of my conversation with Mickey Royal. 

[00:47:41] You said bottom woman, that's like, what, what position would you say? That's like the general manager kind of, of your stable of your team. 

[00:47:51] Mickey Royal: Your bet of beauties. 

[00:47:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Like I'm trying to think of like what this would be in the business world, but it's like, they're the GM, the general manager. They run all the staff, they handle all these little sort of short-term problems, dismantled drama that's going on, shield you from that stuff. Make sure the collections are coming in on time and you manage the business, business, but they are managing the floor, right? so to speak. 

[00:48:11] Mickey Royal: It's like, if you got one, two or three, you don't really need one. 

[00:48:13] Jordan Harbinger: Okay. 

[00:48:14] Mickey Royal: When you get to the point where I had like 20, 25, several houses, I can't do that as one man. I have security force. I have several bottom women. Like if you read Pimping Ain't Easy, all of those women, they were my women, but they had women of their own. I don't know those other women individually. I collect from them because it's all my space. I know these seven. These are my seven. They have stables of their own.

[00:48:39] Jordan Harbinger: They got their — it's like a franchise model. 

[00:48:41] Mickey Royal: I don't sit there and know 25, 30, 35 women altogether. These have become an agency. I don't know all those women. I remember in Harlem Nights, when she said, "I got a girl who's XYZ is so good. You do it." See she's at the table — imagine those are all women. She's at the table with Ray. I'm Ray, but I don't know Sunshine. Sunshine is just one of many of her girls. I know her. She's my girl. So the bottom woman can relay messages sometimes that you can't because keep in mind, you're a man and men are the enemy or the target or the prize. And I can't separate myself from my gender. That's why sometimes you run into pimps, even the stereotype, they're almost effeminate because he can't be a man. He can't be a woman. He can't be hungry. He can't be thirsty. He can't be tired. He can't be weak. He can't even be strong. He almost has to be a celestial figure. 

[00:49:35] Jordan Harbinger: Otherwise you fall into a category that's either, like you said, a manipulator, somebody victimizing them, someone they can manipulate or use in some ways. So you have to put yourself outside of all categories so that none of that stuff applies to you. 

[00:49:47] Mickey Royal: Exactly. I can't control it from within. I can't coach a boxer from inside the ring or else the boxer would need the coach. I need to be stepping on the outside so that when Mike Tyson tells me, "I've been winning every round." I'm like, "No, kid, you're not winning every round. See, I get a different view of it from out here. In fact, you have six minutes to knock this guy out. Because he's been doing X, Y, and Z. See, while you're beating him to a pulp, he's racking up points because you're missing—" See, that's kind of stuff, you don't see while you're in the action. You just know that physically you've been hitting him and his face looks worse than yours. So you must be winning. That's why boxers are shocked at the end sometimes when they don't get the decision, but then what do they always say? When they say you feel you were robbed? What did they always say? I have to go back and look at the tape. 

[00:50:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:50:28] Mickey Royal: Now, why would you have to look at a tape of a fight you were just in, because you don't see it from that angle. See, that's my job. I'm watching it from a different angle. Like, "Kid slipped the jab. You're going to lose this. You're going to lose this." Because you don't see that every time you land the power below, he lands three jabs. They count, but he doesn't feel or see that because he's in the mix involved in it right then and there. 

[00:50:48] Jordan Harbinger: I know we got to wrap because we're going way over. Another one of your rules is to act like you're on camera at all times. Why? What does that do? 

[00:50:56] Mickey Royal: You're always being watched. You're always being recorded and I don't mean from a recorded device. I mean, through her subconscious. You got to watch how many times you laugh, you got to watch whether or not you cry. You have to watch your emotions. I'm even particular about when I used to talk to women, how it come from my left side, come into my right. Why? Because I've studied in the mirror and saw which profile looks the best. So I would always approach from one side to turn my head a certain way. She might think it's a natural motion. It's a motion I went over for hours, decades ago. So I know how I look. I know how I walk in long trench coats and how I look because I used to watch myself in the mirror doing it at 16 and 17 and I haven't been changed.

[00:51:36] So I know exactly how when I walk and I lean in, in a certain way, when I flare my coat out and I look up, I know exactly what she's seeing. Then I rock my eyes back and she's mesmerized. I'm hypnotizing her with my body language. Don't ever think that no one's not looking at you. When you're in that line, they're always looking at you, studying you, looking for a crack in your armor. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So that's what I said you're always being watched. When I walk into a bar or walk into a club, I just assume all eyes are on me. So let me strut a certain way. If they're dancing this way, I position myself this way in the corner. Why? Because I have to walk diagonally across to go to the restroom. Now, when I walk diagonally, if I'm not in a straight line in their view, everyone sees me peripherally, so all the heads naturally have to turn. So even if I'm not trying to be the center of attention, I am the center of attention because I'm walking against the flow of the party. I do that on purpose. And then I walk back a certain way. Now, if I'm walking back a certain way, I know the position, my profile a certain way because I know that the woman is looking at this, looking at that. If I wipe my mouth, I do it a certain kind of way. Everything I do is premeditated. When I turn around, I know exactly which eyes are looking at me. 

[00:52:49] And I can tell what a woman is thinking. If she looks at me for a second and turns away and turns back. If she's looking at me for five seconds, turns away and never looks again. If she's smiling, if she's shaking her head, like, "Oh my goodness." I know exactly what I'm going to say to each one of those women. Just like when you got — I use the Brady Bunch example, because it's oldest, middle, youngest. See, I can get all three of them, but I'm not going to talk to the oldest one, the way I talked to the middle. Like I used my example with the two sisters. And you don't talk to the baby, the same way you talk — I don't care if the woman is 30 years old, if she said, “I'm the youngest of three girls.” I say, "Oh, I know what to say to you." 

[00:53:26] Jordan Harbinger: Because there's a pattern there. That's been her whole life. 

[00:53:28] Mickey Royal: It's a psychological pattern. The middle child, those are the easiest to get because they're not the youngest, EST. They're not the oldest, EST. See, they don't have an EST at the end of their title. 

[00:53:40] Jordan Harbinger: Right. 

[00:53:40] Mickey Royal: You know, so they're the easiest and usually the middle child. Oh gosh, I go in through the middle child, like I said, I'm going to go through that whole family, like a recessive gene, and they're all going to be in the car with me. They're all going to be in bed with me. And they're all going to be having their knees fulfilling. I might not even touch them. I say, because I'm giving the oldest something psychologically that she craves. The middle craves something different. The baby has something else. I can always tell, even with men. When a man reacts a certain way, I can always tell, I say, "You were raised by your mom primarily." And I knew one. I say, "You were raised by a grandmother primarily." Here's how I know, I say, "Grandmother's babies can do no wrong." And I said, "You're so narcissistic. And you think that is your way." And I said, "It was your grandmother wasn't it." A grandmama's baby is different from a mama's baby and a mama's baby is different from a father's baby. I said, it's different. I can tell a girl who grew up with an overprotective father. I could tell one who didn't grow up with one at all. I can tell one who grew up needing one and one who doesn't respect one. And it only takes me a few seconds to pick up on that and that I adjust the way I'm coming at you. I say, I can get them all, but not the same way. 

[00:54:46] Jordan Harbinger: So what do you do now? You know, I know you've moved out of LA and everything. Have you left the game behind? Like what's happening now? 

[00:54:53] Mickey Royal: 10 years ago. 

[00:54:54] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's what I thought. 

[00:54:54] Mickey Royal: Yeah. Like I’m aged 40, 41. I'll be 50 next year. I'm a reclusive writer now, because that is my passion. And when you go through a whole lifetime of depriving yourself of joy in order to obtain certain things, it's like a dam had broken and now I need it. So I watched cartoons, which I never did. I saw three deers since then. You know, I live in the sticks. I lived in Washington state, basically almost in the city/forest type of environment. And I live in my Hemingway lifestyle. I live a life of a reclusive writer. I've collected 30 years of stories and I'm going to have well of information. Three lifetimes wouldn't get it out. So I have to get out as much as I can. I combined stories within stories to get them all out, you know, because if I live to a hundred, I don't think I can get them all out. You know? Because I wasn't writing along the way. I just collected all of this stuff in my head and I enjoy writing so much. I'm your stereotypical reclusive writer now. Like in that Johnny Depp movie, where he went nuts. 

[00:55:55] Jordan Harbinger: Well, hopefully it won't get that far, but man, I got to say, I appreciate the knowledge. I appreciate the candor. You know, a lot of people are going to be like, "I can't believe you had that guy on. This is glorifying it." It doesn't really, I mean, you're not — it's hard for me to say, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it certainly doesn't seem glorious, glorified, glamorous when you say, you know, you gave up a lot for this and that you wouldn't necessarily recommend it. I mean, it doesn't sound like you're not encouraging other people to do this. And it sounds like when you did it, it wasn't a great deal for anyone at that point. 

[00:56:29] Mickey Royal: At the beginning, no, but my attitude was, if we're in his life, let's do it as safe, responsible, and smart as possible where everybody is happy. I said, this is not all my money because I'm not doing all the work. We're not going to be outside because you can't be protected that way. And when you start to see them and call them your family — if my sister chose to do something, that's fine. I don't want my brother or my son to be a boxer, either seven out of 10, end up with permanent brain damage. It's simple. I don't want my son to be a boxer, but if you're going to box son and you're hell bent on boxing, let me put you with the best trainers, the best promoters, and the best price possible so that I can make this. If you're going to be my son to be a boxer, I want you to be Floyd Mayweather. I want you to walk out of this with a billion dollars. And I want you to walk out of this with good stories and good experiences. Now, I don't want you to box it all. Rather you'd be a school teacher because you're less likely to get punched in the face. You may now a days and some of these schools, but it's only once or twice. 

[00:57:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:57:27] Mickey Royal: But if you're hell bent on being a boxer, even though I really don't approve of it, then let's do it right. So that when this is all over, you have your money to look back on and you have most of your brain cells left. Let's do it right. Let's get you a nutritionist. Let's do it. So that's the way I approached it because we were all stuck. And this is what we all chose to do. So let's make this as joyous as possible. Let's make it one non-stop party. 

[00:57:50] Because a lot of women went into this to just do a year or so and went off and did their own businesses. They just need to start capital, whatever. I'm still in contact with them. You know, I expect my free hotdogs when I come to your catering truck. I know I'm good for a free chili. "Yeah, Mickey, you know, I got you." "Yeah. You know, mustard, onions." 

[00:58:08] There were negative things that happened along the way, including myself. Like I said, my chest looks like Swiss cheese stabbed in the face. You know, I can't pronounce certain words. I have a lisp. You know, I've spent quite a bit of jail time and prison time, but most of my time was protecting them or getting revenge because I had to set my mark because I saw it the way as if you sell drugs for me, and you're making money and I'm making money, but I'm the one in charge. If people are assaulting you on the street or robbing you, if I can't protect you, why would you sell my drugs? You might as well be stuck out there on their own. See, I have to do this. This is part of the reason why I get my percentage. And sometimes you don't always get away with things and you know, things like that, but no, it's not so much glorifying it and not even the mind control thing.

[00:58:54] What I do is I get the information and I clear up the misconceptions because what you learn mostly in the movies, that's not true. I've worked with too many wise guys out of New York for decades. "Are you Bernie? Hey, where's the slice of pizza?" I've never heard them say that. I've never heard them talk like that. Even though it was the heavy New York accent, they don't act like that. They just look like old white men who are going to play golf. I mean, we're talking about dismemberment and the heroin trade, but they don't look like that. And they don't act like that. And they don't walk with their shoulders swinging like that. "Hey, Rocky, where's Mugsy?" That's all television. They don't speak like that. They just look like old white dudes with canes that are talking to him. We talk about food and we make jokes. And we talk about — well, they talked about golf a lot because they're old. And then we get down to the nitty gritty once we're just pleased with the pleasantries, but they just remember of elderly gentlemen, regular people. That's all. 

[00:59:50] That's what misconception about sex work is they're not robots. They're not a monolith. At the end of the day, they're just people. I mean, Michael Jordan is very rich and he's very comfortable. Ask him how comfortable that La-Z-Boy chair is on Sunday. Ask him, does he miss it? He'll tell you the same thing I do, every day, every day. Knowing what I know, the scars I've received, the consequences that I pay. Would I do it all again tomorrow? Yeah, it was that good of a ride. Yeah. I would. Knowing what I know, knowing I could lose my life, knowing the consequences and collateral damage, if I could go back in time and tell myself I'm going to say no, when that offer presents itself, I wouldn't be strong enough. I would say yes and get right back in that God dang limo and going off to Halloween. Like, no, I can hang out with you fellas. Yes. I would not be strong enough to resist the allure. Michael Jordan wants to play every day. He probably goes out in his yard and pretends the crowd is screaming. He doesn't want to play for money. He'll play for free. Mike Tyson doesn't box any more for money. He donates all his money for charity. He has too. He has too or else, he'll be suicidal if he doesn't because that's who he is. That's why he boxes for free. He made $10 million on a fight. He gave it all away. It's not for money. Try that La-Z-Boy chair. I told someone nothing is louder in this world, in your ears in silence. You never heard a louder sound in your life. 

[01:01:13] Jordan Harbinger: Mickey Royal, thank you so much. This is fascinating. Definitely one of the more interesting episodes I've done recently and a good inside candid look at an industry that none of us really, none of us really understand as much as we might like to think we do, because we've seen all these Hollywood movies and things like that. So the books were enlightening. This has been enlightening. I really appreciate your time, man. 

[01:01:32] Mickey Royal: Thank you. And it's an honor and a pleasure. And anytime you want to call me back, let me know. Or even if not recorded, I told you I live as a reclusive rider, so I'm quite lonely. So if you just want to call me one day and say, "Hey man, how was Walmart?" We can just talk about that. 

[01:01:48] Jordan Harbinger: You got it, man. Thank you very much. 

[01:01:52] There was so much more that we didn't even get to with Mickey. So definitely let me know what you think of this episode. Y'all know how to reach me. I think he is a great storyteller. I think he's got, let's just say a story to career and there's a lot to talk about when it comes. It's a deep topic in many ways. You know, whether you found it merely entertaining, you found it disturbing, you found it insightful or all three, which can be kind of a head spin. I know that's how I feel right now. He's got books as well, and they do read quite easily. I read a bunch of them. We'll be linking to those in the show notes, of course, as we always do. Thanks to Mickey Royal for coming on. 

[01:02:25] Links to all of his books will be in the show notes. Please use our website links if you buy books from any guest on the show. It does help support this program. Worksheets for episodes are in the show. Notes. Transcripts are in the show notes. Videos go up on YouTube at jordanharbinger.com/youtube. If you want to see us in action, if you want to see two dudes talking into webcams. We also have a brand new clips channel with cuts that don't make it to the show. Highlights from the interviews you can't see anywhere else. jordanharbinger.com/clips is where you can find all that. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram or hit me on LinkedIn. Always enjoy connecting with you on any platform. 

[01:03:00] Speaking of connecting. I'm teaching you how to connect with great people and manage your relationships and your network using the same system, software, and tiny habits that I do. That's my Six-Minute Networking course. It's free, no catch. jordanharbinger.com/courses where you find it. Dig the well before you get thirsty. Like I said before most of the guests on the show, subscribe to the course. Come join us, you'll be in smart company where I know you belong. 

[01:03:23] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Millie Ocampo, Ian Baird, Josh Ballard, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know somebody who's interested in true crime, the shadow world, or just loves a wild story, share this episode with them. I hope you find something great in every episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show. Please do share the podcast with those you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show — oh, maybe not this one, particularly, but on many of the episodes — do what you can to apply what you've learned on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. 

[01:04:05] As promised, here's a teaser from the Build for Tomorrow podcast.. 

[01:04:09] Jason Feifer: What happens when change doesn't take the form of some specific new innovation but instead, what if the change is a global event, a pandemic that impacts everything we know. Turn on the news and you'll see tragedy, but I've been challenging myself to see something else too. The black plague, AKA the black death, AKA pestilence.

[01:04:29] Andrew Rabin: It didn't matter who you were. The plague would still get you. 

[01:04:34] Jason Feifer: It's the beginning of employment and capitalism as we know it. The Civil War gave us the gilded age and a sort of second industrial revolution. Around the same time, cholera epidemics of the mid 1800s led to massive urban redesigns, including Central Park in New York. A little while later, the 1918 Spanish flu radically transformed medicine and many governments around the world embraced the idea of free healthcare for all. 

[01:04:58] So what's going to happen after COVID-19? Well— 

[01:05:02] Andrew Rabin: As much control as we think we can exercise, there's always this little reminder, "Remember that thou are human and not divine." You don't have control of things. 

[01:05:13] Female Speaker: Sapere aude, dare to know. Don't be afraid of what might come from your efforts to know, and to understand the world in a new way. 

[01:05:23] Jason Feifer: We're human and humans can become better.

[01:05:29] Jordan Harbinger: This episode of The Jordan Harbinger Show is sponsored by Castbox, a free podcast app for iOS and Android users. Like many people, I get frustrated with native podcast apps like Apple Podcasts and Google Play. I'm always on the hunt for something better. Castbox is a great solution. It's on the balance of clean, attractive design, usability, and great features. And I know a lot of my listeners agree because we have over 150,000 listeners subscribed on there, so 180 or something like that. When it comes to podcast apps, I like a clean, easy to use interface and most importantly, great searching capabilities that allow me to find the podcast I'm looking for. I like that you can search by episode in Castbox. I mentioned that last time I talked about them. You can also personalize your listening experience. For example, you can create an organized playlist without having to download the episodes and you can categorize your subscribed podcasts and mark favorite episodes. Castbox is also the third largest podcast player behind Apple and Spotify. A lot of people are catching onto this. Castbox listen free, download free. It's also the best one for Android. I can tell you that. So download Castbox today and don't forget to subscribe to The Jordan Harbinger Show and leave us a comment while you're there.