514: Distancing from Junkie Sibling’s Self-Jinxing | Feedback Friday

Distancing from Junkie Sibling’s Self-Jinxing | Feedback Frida (Episode 514)

Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with my Feedback Friday producer, my prolocutor in prescription, Gabriel Mizrahi, these are getting harder. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. We want to help you see the Matrix when it comes to how these amazing people think and behave. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. So you can get a much deeper understanding of how the world works and make sense of what's really happening, even inside your own mind. 

[00:00:37] If you're new to the show, on Fridays, we give advice to you and answer listener questions. The rest of the week, we have long-form interviews and conversations with amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. And if you're joining us for the first time, or you want to share the show with friends, and we love it when you do that, check out jordanharbinger.com/start. Those are the starter packs, collections of popular episodes, organized by topics. Again, jordanharbinger.com/start to get started. 

[00:01:05] This week on the podcast, we had world-renowned physicist, Dr. Michio Kaku with string theory, infinite universes, and other amazing ideas that will blow your mind and make you just realize how small we humans really are in the scheme of things. The dude is a genius. Obviously, the conversation was really amazing. You're going to love it if you're into science at all. Also we pulled one from the vault, with the one and only Charlamagne Tha God. This is from the old show. We focus on his story growing up and what it took/takes to get to the top of the game where he is now firmly and the top of his game, in the entertainment industry. If you know Charlamagne, then you know he's a great conversationalist and this episode is no exception. So have a listen and let me know what you think. 

[00:01:44] I also write every so often on the blog, my latest post signs you're not truly well-liked at work and what to do about that. I know the title's a little bit of a bummer. That's kind of the point. Usually when we think about being well-liked at work, we think about getting invited out to a happy hour or complimented on our work, whatever. There are actually more subtle signs that you're truly wanted or respected and valued at your workplace. But if you're not seeing those indicators, it's time to do things differently. And we get into all of that in this piece, along with how to change the way people see you in the office. Definitely one of my favorites. So sure you had a look and to listen to all of that. By the way, the blog stuff is at jordanharbinger.com/articles and of course, it's linked right there on jordanharbinger.com right on the website. 

[00:02:26] All right, lots in the mailbag. Gabe, what's the first thing? 

[00:02:28] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, my younger brother, who's 62 years old is a recovering heroin addict. He was released from prison a year and a half ago, and he's still on parole. During his incarceration, which was actually his second time in prison, my sister and I supported him emotionally and financially, while he participated in an intense 18-month-drug program. He passed with flying colors and we believed he was truly reformed. I even wrote to the parole board in favor of his early release. He wanted a fresh start so we agreed to help him move to our state and serve his parole here. His parole requires him to stay clean and attend weekly NA and AA meetings. I helped him through all the paperwork to get assistance, Medicaid, Snap benefits, the social security card, a driver's license, all of that. And my sister let him stay in her and her husband's fancy fifth-wheel trailer located on their property. Eight months later, he had a shoulder replacement and then relapsed into street drugs after getting prescribed opioids by the surgeon. While checking his email, which I do for the purpose of helping him with social security issues, I discovered that he was using again. I discussed the matter with his parole officer who got him to admit that he would not be able to pass a drug test. She upped his attendance requirement of the meetings but never disclosed that I was the one who tipped her off. He has relapsed several times since then and was admitted to a rapid detox center twice. 

[00:03:42] Jordan Harbinger: That's how that happens. It's such a rough cycle. And I don't know, I feel a little bit for the guy cause he got rebooted with his addiction through the prescription, but continue. 

[00:03:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Several months later I discovered that my brother was not only using drugs again, but he was actually buying heroin and mailing it back to his home state with the help of a former fellow inmate who still lives there. He was also shoplifting from numerous stores. I was a complete wreck and I had to seek professional help so I could sleep at night. Fast forward a few more months, and my brother has now gotten a part-time job, pumping gas at a service station located at the exit of a major interstate highway. He's living in a clean and sober halfway house and no longer gets any financial assistance from the family. His emails show him accepting 12 to 15 requests for cash amounts of $20 to $200 in the wee hours of the morning. It appears to me that he is selling drugs to customers while pumping gas. 

[00:04:34] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. This is some breaking bad sh*t right here. 

[00:04:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:04:37] Jordan Harbinger: Yikes. 

[00:04:38] Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm so mad and I feel betrayed. I stopped all contact with him two months ago and he hasn't made any attempt to contact me since. Once we're all vaccinated. He's going to wonder why I don't invite him over. I've lost respect for him and I'm not sure I will ever look at my brother the same way. I toy with the idea of sending an anonymous tip to Crimestoppers. That's a nonprofit that works with law enforcement to help solve crimes, to catch my brother dealing and get him sent back to prison on a parole violation. My husband says I should mind my own business and I do figure he will eventually crash and burn on his own. But I'd like to hear your opinion and any insight you might have into this dilemma. Signed, My Brother's Conflicted Keeper. 

[00:05:13] Jordan Harbinger: A super sad story. Your brother is clearly wrestling with some demons, making poor choices caught in the tragic cycle of addiction. You and your sister, you've done a lot for him so much for him, more than most siblings ever would. You've taken care of this guy. You've encouraged him. You put a roof over his head. You helped him get all the resources he needs. And he's still going back to his old ways and I get why you're mad. Why you feel betrayed? I think I would too. This is how so many loved ones of addicts feel. I'm sorry, you're going through this. I really am. 

[00:05:44] So look, I think what you're really asking here is when is enough, enough. Where do you draw the line? And that is not an easy question to answer. After everything you've done for your brother, I'm sure that it's pretty painful to think about cutting him off for good. I mean, he's your little brother. But then it's also painful to stay connected to somebody who's hurting themselves and people around them, frankly, like this. You're basically having to balance the possibility of him cleaning up his act after — let's admit it, Gabe, 62-plus years against your own need for stability, for integrity, not in the easy calculation for anyone to make.

[00:06:19] So it's interesting. There are different perspectives out there on when it's time to cut an addict out of your life. Some people say you should always keep a line of communication open in case they decide to get better. Other people say you should keep your distance. Maybe even draw a hard boundary because somebody in the grip of an addiction, they just can't function normally. They're not functioning fairly in any relationships. There's obviously a spectrum of advice and ideas on what to do here. But most experts believe, and I tend to agree. There are a few very good reasons to cut an addict out of your life. One of them is if your health is suffering because of them. And another one is if they're taking advantage of your generosity, whether it's money or time or even emotional support. And another reason is if they're unstable or dangerous, obviously, or their presence in your life threatened your safety. 

[00:07:06] Now, you talked about being a complete wreck because of your brother having to seek professional help just to sleep at night. You know, now he's back to committing crimes. He's selling drugs, he's freaking FedExing H back to his hometown, shoplifting. That is for sure a liability when he comes around again. And while he's not currently taking money from you guys, he isn't really honoring the generous support that you've given him. It's just a matter of time until he ends up in prison again or worse. 

[00:07:34] So I think you have a very fair set of reasons for stopping all contact with your brother and that boundary, that's probably the best tool you have when you're dealing with somebody who can't or just won't get better. And by the way, my mom's brother — notice I didn't say uncle — was a heroin addict as well.

[00:07:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, really? I didn't know that. 

[00:07:53] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. My mom ignored the problem. I don't even think she ignored it. I think she just couldn't do anything about it because it was totally enabled by my grandmother. So she sort of tried to just be like, "Okay, arms-length, we're not going to deal with him." And then he ended up moving in with my grandmother and then she tried to solve it while my grandmother fought her every single freaking step of the way. 

[00:08:12] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow. 

[00:08:12] Jordan Harbinger: You know, he would do some identity theft or get arrested or whatever. And my grandma would like bail him out and lie about it and then lie to my mom. So that's stress, dominated my mother's life. And by extension mine, I was in middle school. My middle school memories are like me getting into a little bit of trouble, not liking school, whatever. Everyone in middle school was like that. And then just my mom being a giant ball of stress for like four freaking years, or maybe even longer, it was awful. 

[00:08:39] Gabriel Mizrahi: Intense. 

[00:08:40] Jordan Harbinger: It was not worth it. It probably aged my mom half a decade and maybe I'm being generous here. So in my opinion, when you're dealing with a family member like this, the quicker you set a boundary and you're able to enforce it, the better. And I say able to just because my mom tried, but her familial situation was so — my grandma was so enmeshed in this. My mom had to deal with it. And my grandpa, he passed away during this process and then it was just horrific. So finally my dad was like, "Cut these people out of your life." And my mom was like, "You know what? Fine. I have to do that." And then when she did — well, it's a long story. But once she did, she got a lot better and the whole family got a lot better. 

[00:09:19] Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow, that sounds intense. That's really rough. You know, I lost an uncle to drugs too, actually. Similar story, it took a huge toll on the family. His wife, my aunt, when she realized that he just wasn't serious about getting better, she finally had to cut him off too. And then he ended up dying of an overdose shortly after that. And it was so sad. Incredibly sweet guy, super funny, he actually taught me how to drive. That's like my most vivid memory. 

[00:09:41] Jordan Harbinger: That does not sound super safe, but okay. 

[00:09:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Not super safe. Although, I'm pretty sure he was not using when he did that. Although I was like 14, so now, I'm wondering. 

[00:09:50] Jordan Harbinger: There are a few things wrong with this story, but yeah, go ahead,  continue. 

[00:09:56] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh man, well, now you have a glimpse of who he was. And then within a year, he was gone. It was crazy. And on my mom's side too, her sister, she died at 39, dude. 

[00:10:05] Jordan Harbinger: Oh God.

[00:10:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: And their family, their family did not intervene with her soon enough and that just made things so much. 

[00:10:10] Jordan Harbinger: The whole culture of people having problems and families. Like when you hear about people avoiding it or other people enabling it and you go, "What? That's crazy." Realize that like it's only been the past couple of decades that some people decided you shouldn't sweep problems under the rug entirely. Everybody of previous generations almost without exception was like, 'We don't talk about Uncle Tom." 

[00:10:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. 

[00:10:34] Jordan Harbinger: "We don't know where he is." And then, you find out 20 years later that someone in the family was like, wiring him money from their paycheck every week to enable their habit. And you find out only when that person dies. 

[00:10:45] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yup. 

[00:10:45] Jordan Harbinger: Or like, you know, it's wild. The whole thing is so intense. It just happens in all kinds of families. Doesn't it? All over the place. 

[00:10:51] Gabriel Mizrahi: It really does. Yeah. And so many addicts, so many former inmates as well, they would be thrilled to have the kind of support that this woman has given her brother. And he's just throwing it away. I mean, I have compassion for him. I really do. Addiction is brutal, especially addiction to heroin. 

[00:11:04] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. 

[00:11:05] Gabriel Mizrahi: But the way he's living his life now it's dangerous. It's not helping his recovery. He might even be using again. We don't know. It's unclear. It's obviously causing their family a lot of pain. So I'm with Jordan here at this point, the best approach might be to draw that boundary more deliberately. But I do wonder, Jordan, if it's worth trying one more time with her brother to clean up his act, because it's interesting, you have done so much for your brother, but the one thing you're not doing it seems to me is communicating with him about all of us. I mean, look at what you're doing. You're going behind his back to talk to his parole officer so that she can lean on him to attend more meetings. You're monitoring his emails secretly to figure out what he's up to, but you're not confronting him about any of that. And now you're thinking about tipping off the cops to bust him. So he'll get sent back to prison. I mean, anything to avoid sitting down with him and saying, "Listen, bro, I know what you're up to. I'm very concerned about you and I'm here to tell you that you have to cut this sh*t out and get the help that you need, or we just can't have a relationship anymore." 

[00:11:58] Jordan Harbinger: True. It's like she's outsourcing the horrible work of confronting him to these other people, instead of reading him the riot act, which to be fair, I kind of get it. I kind of understand it. My guess is she's just completely over his bullsh*t. 

[00:12:10] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:12:10] Jordan Harbinger: It's just the thought of doing more just doesn't appeal to her, which is an understatement and I totally get it.

[00:12:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. I get it too. It's hard to communicate openly with an addict. It's scary, it's vulnerable. It's activating, right? So there's this tendency to tiptoe around him and look, I'm sure your intentions are good. For all, we know reporting him to the police, maybe that's the only way he's really going to change at this point. You wouldn't be the first family member to do that. And he wouldn't be the first addict to hit rock bottom when he finds himself in a jail cell again. 

[00:12:36] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, my mom, I mean, look, I could be getting this wrong and my mom listens to the show, so she might correct me here, but I vaguely remember my mom reporting her uncle, like multiple times to the police. 

[00:12:47] Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, really. 

[00:12:48] Jordan Harbinger: Showing them a bunch of evidence, not just of drug use. Because he was stealing people's identity and credit card numbers and like signing up for credit cards and then going in and buying electronics and then selling them to pawnshops or something to buy drugs. 

[00:12:59] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:12:59] Jordan Harbinger: At least that's what I remember. So finally, my mom, in combination with the police, kind of like set him up to get arrested, finally. Because credit card companies don't want to prosecute. And then like all these other places that were being defrauded don't want to deal with it. And then the state kind of doesn't want to deal with it. And the cops kind of don't want it deal with it, especially if there's family members that are just going to be like enabling it or bailing them out. And my mom was finally like, "Look, this guy is a POS. Sorry. Please help me out." And they finally arrested him. He was a class act. What can I say?

[00:13:30] Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, there you go. It's always an option. Just know that calling the police on an addict, that's a major step. Once you pull that card, you're setting a huge process in motion, your brother's on parole. He's already been in prison twice. They might really throw the book at him this time. So if you're going to report him, that should really be a last-ditch effort. And that's why I'm wondering Jordan, if he deserves one last chance. And I mean, I made a real last chance, some kind of concerted intervention, either one-on-one or with your family to sit your brother down or write him a letter and tell him that, you know, he's dealing. You suspect that he's using or maybe just putting himself at risk of relapsing again, and that if he continues down this road, it's not going to be possible for you to have a relationship with him. And obviously, you'll want to approach that conversation with a ton of sensitivity, a lot of support, a lot of love that goes without saying, but part of that love is being honest with your brother right now when he really needs it, which I get the sense that you haven't completely done since he first relapsed.

[00:14:21] Now, if you have this conversation and he breaks down and he says, "Yes, I need help take me to a treatment center." And I really hope that happens. Then maybe you can get them into a program and support them while he gets clean. Although you've been around this carousel a few times now, so I would definitely manage your expectations. Step back, let him do the work he has to do. But if you give him this ultimatum and he goes right back to slay and smackdown at the Arco station, you know, getting Venmo's with a bunch of syringe emojis and the captions, then he is on his own. And then I think Jordan is right. It's time to draw that boundary and that'll make that boundary so much easier to enforce with a minimum amount of guilt or regret, knowing that you really did everything you possibly could to help your brother.

[00:14:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I think that's really solid advice Gabe what this guy needs right now is for someone to look them in the eye and tell them the truth, which may or may not have happened already. But if you're a conflict-avoidant person, or if this whole ordeal has just been super traumatizing, I can imagine coming up with all sorts of clever reasons to avoid having a conversation that's that intense. That's when you start thinking, "Eeh, maybe I should call the cops instead of maybe we need to pay our brother a visit." But if he just refuses to get the help he needs, then that's the choice that he's making. And you're going to have to accept it. You can't save somebody if they don't want to save themselves, even if that person is your brother. I know how painful it is to accept that. I have been there. I've seen it, front row seats. It's also liberating. 

[00:15:37] All that said, like I said, I got personal experience with this, a front-row seat to my mother's experience with this. So I would absolutely not judge you if you sent his ass back to the slammer and never talked to him again. I'm not recommending that. I'm not saying dang, that's what I would do, but I'm also not judging you for it. I'm also saying that's not what I would do. Right? I might just be like, "You know what, to hell with it. It's been 62 years, you're a grown-ass man, FU." If you get to a place where that's your only option to save him — Gabe, he's probably been doing this sh*t his whole life, so I would get it if she decided that the leverage is just never going to change his spots and just calls it. 

[00:16:16] Gabriel Mizrahi: Fair enough, I totally got it too. Just know what he will be in for and make sure that you can live with those consequences, whatever, they end up being. 

[00:16:23] Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. Well, we're thinking about you guys. Good luck. 

[00:16:25] By the way, if you want to reach us for questions, it doesn't have to be about crazy addiction or super heavy-duty but if you've got something, look, if it's a little entertaining, it might make it to the top. You can reach us at Feedback Friday, friday@jordanharbinger.com is the email. Keep your emails concise, try to use a descriptive subject line. That makes our job a lot easier. And if you can include the state and country that you live in, that can help us give you more detailed advice. If there's something you're going through, big decisions you're wrestling with, or if you need a new perspective on stuff, life love, work, what to do if you're crazy-ass ex won't leave you alone. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up, friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help. We'll keep you anonymous.

[00:17:07] You're listening to Feedback Friday here on The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. 

[00:17:12] This episode is sponsored in part by Meater. When I first heard about Meater, I thought it was a dating service for people who didn't like vegans. I was wrong, but don't worry, y'all it still involves probing your meat. The weather's getting warmer and I'm amped to start grilling again — yeah, this is going to be like this from now on guys again. Now, that I'm a dad, it's only going to get worse. We're starting to grill again. And one of the things we always worry about is how do we know if the meat is ready and I'm always praying it's not overcooked or undercooked. This new product that I came across makes sure we won't mess it up. It tells me exactly when it's ready to come off the grill. Meater is a sleek Bluetooth meat thermometer that keeps an eye on your food and lets you know when it's ready to eat. It'll give you a countdown for the cooks and you know how many more beers you can drink or before you have to get back to the grill. It can be used in the grill smoker, oven,  sous vide, cooking air fryer, rotisserie, literally anywhere. It also comes with cloud service. That's right. Your meat in the cloud. So you can monitor the barbecue while you're drinking a beer or a White Claw. You have to run to the store. 

[00:18:04] Jen Harbinger: This is the perfect tool to be a grill master and to buy for father's day if you haven't been shopping, get 10 percent off with code JORDAN when you shop at meater.com. Get 10 percent off with code JORDAN at  meater.com, M-E-A-T-E-R.com. It's barbecue season, let's get grilling. 

[00:18:19] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Better Help. This month is mental health awareness month and The Jordan Harbinger Show is proud to join the cause of de-stigmatizing therapy. If you're struggling with relationships or having difficulty sleeping or difficulty meeting your goals, if you're feeling anxious or stressed, Better Help counselors can listen and help. Better Help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional. You can start communicating in under 48 hours. And I'm a big fan of therapy. I think doing it online is a great idea because you don't have to drive across town and you don't have to park. You can switch counselors at any time. There's no additional charge for that. You can do it from anywhere from any time zone. If you don't feel like leaving your house, because maybe you're depressed, you're freaking not motivated to do it. You can do it from bed, the couch, your kitchen, whatever you want. You can do it while stuck in traffic although you should probably be parked for this kind of thing. 

[00:19:08] Now, it's not a crisis line. It's not self-help. It is professional counseling, done securely online, and it's not necessarily just a phone call. You can chat and text with your therapist. You can do weekly video, phone chat, live chat sessions. The therapists at Better Help have a broad range of expertise that might not be locally available in your area. If you do therapy in your town, you're kind of stuck with the available therapy. And if you live in a small town that freaking therapists might be like your friend's uncle or dad, I mean, that's kind of awkward. You can't really be open or as open as you'd want to be. Therapists on Better Help, they have tons of different specialties. You can get somebody that you'll never have a chance of accidentally meeting in real life if you really want that confidentiality. Like I said, it's available for clients worldwide. You can log into your account anytime and send a message to your counselor. I recommend doing it at least once a week. 

[00:20:00] Even if you think, "I'm fine, I don't really need this. I've got friends I can talk to about my problems." You know, I'm with you, but I think talking to friends about your issues actually can damage the friendship." I mean, look, you're supposed to be able to talk to your friends. You can talk to your friends. If you've got something that persists though, you don't really want to bother your friends with that all the time. So that's another reason. Add that to the dozens of reasons why I think therapy is amazing. Plus your friends, smart kind and lovely as they are, they are not necessarily trained to listen and trust trained to help. They don't necessarily have practical exercises and drills and things execute on. They're probably just going to be a good ear. And even then you're adding stress to your relationship like I said. The other thing I love about Better Help is that it is more affordable than traditional offline counseling. Financial aid is available. That's very hard to find with therapists. Trust me, I've tried for years in many places to find financial aid and sliding scale and things like that, you really do get that standardized with Better Help. 

[00:21:01] So many of you in the audience also have been using Better Help. All of you almost exclusively have had amazing, amazing experiences and they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states. So it's a very popular service and I think it's well worth trying even again, if you think, "Maybe I don't need this. Give it a shot." Our listeners get 10 percent off their first month of online therapy at betterhelp.com/jordan. That's better-H-E-L-P.com/jordan. 

[00:21:27] And now back to Feedback Friday on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:21:32] All right, what's next? 

[00:21:33] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. For the last two years, I've been dating the perfect woman for me in pretty much every aspect we have similar interests, values, and career paths. We both have high empathy. We're both supportive people, all of that. The only problem is that I've never been very physically attracted to her. I feel like our relationship is really great, but I find it hard to feel animated to have sex sometimes. And she's usually the only one requesting that we have sex a lot of the time. I love her and it would be easier if the issue were something modifiable, but to be perfectly honest and shallow, I've never really liked how her face looks. Now, she's asking to move in together. I work in medicine and I'll need to apply to programs across the country for residency soon. And she's talked about coming with me. The pressure to be more serious and commit is very high. I've been thinking about breaking up with her, but I feel a lot of pain and sadness when I imagine being without her in my life. There are days I feel like I could spend the rest of my life with her. And there are other days where I feel like I'm making a big mistake. There's a part of me that feels like I'll never find someone I'll be as compatible with again. But I also feel like maybe I'm letting something drag on that is doomed. What would you do if you were me? Signed, Stay Her Bow or Let Her Know. 

[00:22:39] Jordan Harbinger: Yikes. Tough one again, Gabe, and it's sad because this guy and his girlfriend they're compatible in so many important ways, except for this one crucial thing that makes a romantic partnership work. 

[00:22:50] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. 

[00:22:51] Jordan Harbinger: And I know he's afraid of sounding shallow and maybe there's an aspect of his problem that is kind of shallow, but in another way, it's really not. Physical attraction is mysterious. We're all wired differently. And if this woman just isn't for him in that department, it is what it is. And I know a lot of people would love to say like, "It's what's inside that counts and all that." And to a degree that's true, but if anything, the fact that he loves her in every other way, and he still doesn't want to do the no-pants dance with her on the regs that tells me there's something fundamentally off. 

[00:23:18] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes. 

[00:23:19] Jordan Harbinger: You know, it sucks, but that's what's happening. So look, man, I know this situation seems very complicated, but the answer is pretty simple. If you are not attracted to this woman, I think you have to end the relationship. You can't be in a truly fulfilling, honest partnership with somebody that you are not attracted to you just can't. I'm not saying you don't love her. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve your love or anything like that. I'm not even saying that there's anything wrong with her. I mean, it's just a matter of physical taste.

[00:23:47] I am saying that if physical intimacy is important to both of you and you are not fundamentally attracted to this person, then that will be a significant barrier for you too. And it will create all kinds of other problems down the road, period. And I'm glad you're not writing her off because you don't like her chin or whatever. We all know that physical beauty that only goes so far. It doesn't always correlate with the best parts of being in love and how you view somebody that can really change when you fall in love with them. But after two years, If you have to slam a beer and psych yourself up to have sex with her and it's usually her idea. Yeah, not good, not good. Something is not right here. And that means she's not really your girlfriend. She's your BFF, which you also have, have to force yourself to sleep with in order to meet mismatched expectations. 

[00:24:35] So as scary and as painful as it is, I think, you know, what you have to do. The choice you're facing is, hurt her right now or hurt her even more later, and you're not doing her or yourself any favors by sticking around. In fact, you're wasting your time, which could end up with some serious consequences for her because you're wasting her time too, especially when it comes to her, having enough time to meet someone else and have kids if that's something that she wants to do. 

[00:25:00] Gabriel Mizrahi: I agree, Jordan. It's a little uncomfortable to acknowledge that physical attraction can be such a deal breaker in a relationship, but it is. I mean, it is for this guy anyway. Somebody else, maybe it doesn't matter to them and that's fine. That's how they're wired. I mean, look, if he wrote in and said, "I can only marry someone who looks like Emily Ratajkowski," or something like that, I think we'd have a very different response than I would want to unpack his beliefs and his priorities. And probably tell him to get off Instagram and start caring about what his partner is actually like as a person.

[00:25:26] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. But that's not what he's saying, right? What he's saying is, I really love this girl, but I'm not attracted to her, which happens. There's a reason we sleep with certain people and we only have coffee with other people. None of us are attracted to every single person that we meet. It's just not how it works. Especially, Gabe, he literally said, "I don't really like how her face looks." I mean, it just does not get any more plainspoken than that. There's not a lot of flexibility in there. Am I right? 

[00:25:52] Gabriel Mizrahi: Pretty unequivocal. I agree. Okay, but then, so what does he do about this feeling that I'll never find someone like her again?

[00:25:58] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, bingo, right? So this jumped out at me. So to me, it sounds more like, "I can't replace this woman, or I am afraid that I won't be able to replace her or find somebody like her," versus, "I'm in love with this woman." And that is just another sign that it's time to move on. But you know, there might be some underlying beliefs worth exploring there. Maybe he doesn't believe he can find someone better. And that's kind of where I'm leaning towards or maybe he has a part of him that thinks like, "I don't deserve somebody better, or I might not be able to get somebody better because of where my value is as a person," which now that we're talking about it, that might explain why he stuck around in a relationship that wasn't working for this long. He says that he loves her and she's great in every other way. And I believe that he thinks that, but this can also play a part here. And I'm speculating, of course, we can't know for sure, but it does explain a few things or it would explain it. 

[00:26:49] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hmm, good point. It could be that. It could be that, or it could be that he's so used to putting other people's needs before his own, especially since he cares about this girl so much, it's probably easier to deny what he feels than to think about hurting her. But I got to say, Jordan, he put himself in this situation, he's known for two whole years that he wasn't attracted to this person and he played along. I mean, he knew this two weeks into the relationship and he just chose not to pay attention to it. 

[00:27:12] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. So my question is why. What made him shut down that voice? Telling him something wasn't right. Like that's what you need to figure out. Because if you knew then, and then you went, "Well, I don't know. I'm pretty bored and alone. And it was really hard for me to meet even her. And a lot of women I dated before ghosted me." That is a major clue, right? That is a major clue as to why you are dating her in the first place. And that pattern could easily repeat itself. 

[00:27:36] Gabriel Mizrahi: Agreed. 

[00:27:37] Jordan Harbinger: It'll be somebody else that you're dating somebody else and you go, "Aah, you know, she doesn't want kids and I do, but I might never find anybody who wants me." You got to make sure that that's not the reason. 

[00:27:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: But man, during this break of conversation, it's going to be so brutal. I mean, what do you say? What do you say? "You're my best friend. I love you more than anyone I've ever met in my life. I just can't stand being naked with you." 

[00:27:57] Jordan Harbinger: Like I do not envy him at all, but like you said, this conversation would have been so much simpler two years ago, you know? And I don't mean to make light of this, because this is a crap situation, but he definitely owes her some kind of explanation. And it's going to be some version of, "I'm sorry, but we're not compatible in this one way." And I mean, look, he could lie and be like, "Ooh, I'm just ready for a fresh start." I'm not a big fan of that. He needs to be honest here. She deserves some kind of closure and women, well, people, in general, are going to know if you're like, well, "I don't know. I just want to explore my options." She's going to be like, "Why am I not good enough?" And if you lie to her, you're just going to drive her crazy. And not just adding insult to injury. 

[00:28:33] So if I were you, man, I'd take some time to sort through all of this. Look at your patterns, get in touch with your needs, your desires, maybe talk to a therapist about all this, because the last thing you want to do is end this relationship. Like I said, and jump into another one in six months, that operates in the exact same way. This is an opportunity to really confront and rewrite these patterns for good. You and this girl, you're great in so many ways, but that doesn't mean you're right for each other. One of the hard things you got to learn in life if you really love her, you have to give her a chance to find the person who is right for her. And you have to give yourself that chance too. So good luck, man. 

[00:29:10] All right, what's next? 

[00:29:11] Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm 19 years old and I'd consider myself to be ahead of others at my age. I'm a full-time college student, a production and logistics manager at a company, and an Eagle scout. I'm fluent in two languages and I'm learning four more because I love it. And I'm soon enlisting in the US Navy as a cryptologic technician interpretive or a CTI, basically a translator. 

[00:29:30] Jordan Harbinger: Dang, you’re killing it. I don't even — I mean, that sounds very impressive. Go on. 

[00:29:34] Gabriel Mizrahi: Although I have hardly any social life I spend most of my time—

[00:29:37] Yeah. I'm not surprised, man. You're learning six languages probably don't have time— 

[00:29:41] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah. He might want to take it easy. Take a deep breath. 

[00:29:44] Gabriel Mizrahi: Although I have hardly any social life I spend most of my time working on my education job and future ambitions. I'm always looking for new opportunities and a couple of months ago I found another one. It's a volunteer position, totally unpaid as a congressional advisor for my home district. I applied on a whim. I felt I had no chance of ever being selected, but to my shock, I was just notified that my congresswoman has selected me as one of the advisors. I've worked with many professionals at different levels, but at 19, this new job seems a little overwhelming. I already feel the imposter syndrome kicking in. And I know that the first time I sit down with representatives and senators and other government officials, the imposter syndrome will hit me like a train. So should I take this position? What advice would you give someone who's dealing with this sort of early-onset imposter syndrome? Sincerely, The Imposter Among Us. 

[00:30:31] Jordan Harbinger: I'm always tempted to see these and be like, "No, just quit trying new things because you might accidentally be great at them and then feel a little bit of discomfort or imposter syndrome," you know? But I do get it. He's young, right? So this letter was a great way to make me feel like a lazy piece of crap. Gabe, when I was 19, I was chugging PBR at dive bars and dicking around with flash animation on the Internet and sitting around and like chat rooms that were black and white. You're way ahead of the game, dude. You're ambitious. You're hardworking. You sound like an awesome guy. Congratulations on landing this new gig as a congressional advisor. 19 years old, 19, he's advising Congresspeople. I mean, they could use somebody with their head on straight candidly looking at our government lately. I'm not surprised they wanted you. It all sounds super exciting. 

[00:31:19] I know that high performers, like you, they tend to suffer from imposter syndrome more than anybody, partly because they're smart enough to know what they don't know. And partly because they achieve a lot very quickly. And so they usually skip over. Some of the key developmental periods where they get to make mistakes and learn and settle into themselves. I mean, if you're young and you're killing it, you're going at 90 miles an hour. So yeah, maybe there's some gaps in your skill set. And partly because they tend to push themselves, these high achievers, that means often they find themselves in situations where they really don't know what the hell they're doing yet. Right? They are the 19-year-old kid in the congressman's office who's in charge of something. And they're like, "Dude, my mom didn't even let me open fresh boxes of cereal without permission. And you want me to lead a project?" That's when they start developing this false self, the mask. They start to feel like at any moment, they're just going to be found out. 

[00:32:10] Look, we talk about imposter syndrome a lot. I always point to the article and the deep dive that we did on this topic. So I'm not going to get into the weeds on dealing with that right now. We'll link to those in the show notes. Again, it's a deep dive episode and an article on this. You can check them out though. They are gold and they are kind of a comprehensive, but for your situation specifically, my advice is to take the job. I know it's daunting. I know it's a stretch, but that's, what's exciting about it. I wouldn't let your early-onset imposter syndrome — great phrase, by the way — I wouldn't let that hold you back from pursuing what sounds like an incredible opportunity, because first of all, they chose you. You are — Gabe, you remember that show where somebody got promoted and they thought it was too early. And we got some listener feedback that said, "You're not even qualified to decide if you're qualified for the promotion." Like you don't know if you're right for it. They know you're right for it. That's why they chose you. If you were qualified to even make that decision, you would already be the boss. 

[00:33:07] Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

[00:33:08] Jordan Harbinger: You wouldn't be hiring. So they chose you. They want you, they aren't doing you a freaking favor. They see that you are an accomplished young guy who would be a great addition to the team, period. I would believe them if I were you. They are probably more qualified to make that decision and determination than you are. Second, as a 19-year-old and a volunteer position, you're not running the whole show. Like calm down. They're probably going to give you a couple of projects, but you're not going to be in charge of something major that you could possibly screw up that has real consequences, not right away anyway. You don't have to know how to pass an infrastructure bill in Congress. You don't have to avoid a government shutdown or anything like that, right? It's not on you to make the position successful in the beginning. 

[00:33:51] The fact that you even feel the pressure to perform, though, it says a lot about you. Frankly, the standards you hold yourself to are high, but that's also how you work creating the imposter syndrome for yourself by feeling that you need to be freaking Mitch McConnell or Kamala Harris to do a good job in your entry-level position. So yeah, you will find yourself in situations that are unfamiliar. You will be doing tasks that are a stretch. You will be the youngest person in the room, almost certainly, which is great, but that doesn't mean you don't deserve to be there. It just means you're pushing yourself to perform beyond your current capabilities or at least what you think are your current capabilities, which is exactly what you should be doing. That's the best and only way to grow. 

[00:34:34] Yes. I agree. 100 percent. I mean, you are prone to imposter syndrome because you're smart and you're self-aware and you probably leveled up really quickly as a kid, but it's not because you don't have the goods. You'll never know a hundred percent of what you need to know to succeed in life. And honestly, you don't have to, bro. All you have to do is work hard, be willing to learn, build great relationships, be generous with your skills, which I have a pretty strong feeling, you will. 

[00:34:56] And if you ever notice yourself pretending to be somebody you're not or pretending to know more than you actually do, just take a moment. Notice that imposterism creeping, and try a different approach. Maybe you raise your hand, ask for help. Maybe you can take an hour to do some more research, give yourself permission to be a student again for a minute. That is totally fair. That's how you can short circuit imposter syndrome, the moment it pops up. And if you do all that, you're going to kick ass. Good luck with the new gig, man. I'm excited for you. Give yourself permission to be excited too. This is exciting stuff.

[00:35:29] The Jordan Harbinger Show, and this is Feedback Friday. We'll be right back. 

[00:35:33] This episode is sponsored in part by Ten Thousand. Ten Thousand makes the highest quality best fitting and ultra comfortable training shorts. I hired a trainer three times a week. I used to wear regular shorts for the workout, not really suitable for the type of mobility training that I'm doing. Now, I only wear a Ten Thousand session shorts which are these flyweight shorts best for running, yoga, and mobility stuff. Tons of features like silver ion for odor protection. Let's just say some regular shorts were getting kind of stanky. They're breathable, they're lightweight. They stretch in the right ways and not kind of in the wrong ways. They've got three secure pockets for phone keys and a card with an optional liner. That's really comfortable and prevents, let's just say chafing, let's leave it at chafing. Ten Thousand is constantly iterating on their products with the development team of 200 athletes, like professional runners and gym owners who live in the Ten Thousand gears, so they're constantly improving the product, very open to feedback. They're also a direct-to-consumer company. There's no middleman. You get premium fabric trim techniques that other brands simply cannot afford. Pick the short that's best for your training, and then personalize it with a custom liner and inseam options. Free shipping and returns and a lifetime guarantee.

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[00:38:37] Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us going. Who doesn't love some good products and/or services? You can always visit jordanharbinger.com/deals for all the details on everybody that helps support the show. And now for the conclusion of feedback Friday. 

[00:38:55] All right, what's next? 

[00:38:57] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello guys, I'm almost 28 and I work in a molecular biology lab created in response to COVID-19. When I arrived at the company, nothing was really working. Over the past six months, I've helped write and edit the lab’s standard operating procedures, participated in tech transfers, and trained most of the med techs and associate med techs. My supervisor relies on me a lot at times. I even lead the lab in her place when she's not there. My contract is up for renewal soon. So I decided to ask for a title change and raise to reflect my contributions. My lab manager agreed with all of my points and said that he'd speak with upper management about it. But in the end, they said, no. I've tried really hard to not let this upset me, but I can't help, but have these thoughts. What am I doing wrong? Aren't I doing enough? It especially hurts because one of my coworkers successfully negotiated for the same thing recently, and it really stings to be leading people who are getting paid twice as much as me. I'm really ambitious and I just thought that if I worked hard enough, I would be rewarded. I've thought about looking for other jobs, but I don't want to run away from something like this without properly resolving it. How do I come to terms with this? Do you think I should look elsewhere? Is it even fair for me to be upset? Love you guys in what you do. Signed, Putting My Career Under the Microscope.

[00:40:06] Jordan Harbinger: I'm sorry. You didn't get that promotion. I know how frustrating it can be when you put in that much work. But I really admire your determination to figure out why this happened. And that is exactly the right tool to have. Gabe and I actually took a question recently from a guy who had been passed over for a promotion at his job twice, and we dug pretty deep into what he needed to do differently next time. So I would start by giving that a listen. It was actually pretty recent. It was episode 478. We'll link to it in the show notes. By the way, if you ever want to go to a specific episode, I don't pump this nearly enough. You can just go to jordanharbinger.com/the episode number. So you can go to jordanharbinger.com/478, and it'll take you to that on the web. Obviously, if it's an app, just scroll to it. But I do have some thoughts about your situation specifically as well. 

[00:40:51] So, first of all, it's clear that you're a very smart, generous, dedicated employee. The lab is lucky to have you frankly, and that said what you're realizing right now is that being smart, generous, and dedicated, they are powerful qualities, but they're not always enough to get ahead. And if they were, you'd be running the damn place by now. I mean, you kind of are running the damn place, but you're still not getting promoted. And that's my point that tells me that there are other variables at play here. 

[00:41:19] So what are they? Well, the biggest one surprise, surprise is the quality of your relationships in the lab. Are you supported by your peers? Are you seen as essential by your managers? Do your supervisors like you as a person? Do you have other relationships with other med techs at the other labs who can share resources and ideas and opportunities? My guess is the answer to some of these questions is yes. But I do wonder whether you think of relationship building as a central part of your career because when you said, "I'm really ambitious and I thought that if I just worked hard enough, I would be rewarded." That really jumped out to me because that's what smart, hardworking, ambitious people tend to think.

[00:42:00] Honestly, that is what I thought when I was just starting out as well. Like, "Oh, I'll just grind really hard. The higher-ups are going to notice that. They'll like me. I'll get ahead on my merits." That is rarely the case. And even if it is true, in some cases, that strategy will only go so far. Having amazing relationships on top of a killer performance that is pouring fuel on the fire that accelerates everything you do. And all else being equal, it's the person with the great relationships who get ahead and people hate on this. They say like, "Ooh, you're a brown noser." That's not the same thing. 

[00:42:35] So if I'm right here, it's time to start investing more energy into your relationships. If you need a starting point for how to do that, check out the Six-Minute Networking course, it's free. As you all know, I've beaten that thing a million times, jordanharbinger.com/course is where that's at. Just get started. The drills are easy, man. They just kick the rust off. That's the whole point and it gives you systems. So it doesn't feel like a heavy lift. 

[00:42:58] The other variable that matters here. And this is kind of hard to diagnose by email, but I'll just throw it out there. I would take a look at your personal style. In other words, how you present yourself to your colleagues, how you communicate, what your vibe is like in the lab, all that. And if that's closely tied to relationship building, because so much of how we relate to other people depends on things like confidence, comfort level, kindness, humor, your personality, basically. Again, it's very tempting to think, "Well, if I just kill it at my job, I don't have to be funny or nice or confident or any of those things, especially when you work in a technical role," but in reality, those qualities, they inform your work in a major way. And if they played a role in how you asked for the raise, for example, then they are 100 percent impacting your career.

[00:43:46] Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Great point if she had all these pieces in place, and then she asked for this raise, I do wonder if the outcome would have been different. But look, if you explore all of this and you realize that you are building great relationships and your personal style is on point and you're still not getting the promotion that you deserve, then yes, I would start looking for a new job. It's totally possible that you're doing everything you should be doing, but you're working for people who just won't give you what you deserve, or they're just not ready to or they're just, you know, they have some stupid policy about being an associate med-tech, and that's why you can't get ahead or something like that. In which case, they don't deserve you. It's okay. But I would really take the time to figure out whether that's the case before you just move on. 

[00:44:21] And a great starting point would be to study your colleague who did get that promotion recently. I'm wondering, do they have a different relationship with your managers than you do? Is their attitude different? Do they talk to people a certain way? Do they have a certain vibe with their peers in the break room that you don't seem to have? I'm curious about that. I'm not trying to encourage you to compare yourself to this person in some unhealthy way, obviously, but you do have a model for what works in this lab right there in front of you. And that can be very, very helpful to study. 

[00:44:48] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a good point. She does need to become a student of what works. And this is exactly what I did when I worked at my first law firm or one of my first law firms, just looking around and going, "Okay, why is that guy getting ahead? How does that partner keep bringing in so much business?" And that's how I realized there was this whole other skill set networking and relationship development that I just didn't even realize existed. I didn't even know what was a skill. And Gabe, I just thought of this, but it's possible. That she's made herself so useful as a manager or a lab runner or whatever it's called that they don't want to promote her to a different position, but I don't know how, I don't know if that's super likely though.

[00:45:24] Gabriel Mizrahi: I had not thought of that. I had not thought of that. Like, she's so good at her job that they don't want to lose her. That kind of thing? 

[00:45:30] Jordan Harbinger: I mean, look, that's probably like, there's a 5 percent chance of that. I'm just trying some different angles here. I guess at least though they probably would have given her a raise and tried to retain her. I'm spitballing. Like they would've gone, "Hey, we can't give you that new job, but we're going to give you a great raise. We just really need you running the lab," not, "Oh John's more qualified. Sorry." So overall you have the right attitude. Don't run away, figure it out, put in the work to get better, but know that if your managers aren't reciprocating your investment, you don't have to stick around forever. You've learned a ton. You've built some serious credit. This plays, you can easily walk over to the lab across the proverbial street and kill it over there. Just make sure that you're balancing your hard work with all of the other qualities that you actually need to shine in any professional environment.

[00:46:18] All right, last but not least. 

[00:46:20] Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan, I got a Six-Minute Networking question for you. Let's say you've decided to introduce two people to each other. Person A ops into the introduction. So you reach out to person B, but person B doesn't want the introduction. How do you proceed from there? It would be unprofessional not to follow up with person A, but it's also uncomfortable to tell them that person B just wasn't interested. Plus that might reflect badly on me. How do you effectively deal with that awkwardness? Signed, Taking It on the Chin When the Double Opt-In Becomes a Blocked Twin? 

[00:46:47] Jordan Harbinger: Wow. All right. Great question. So this is interesting because this clearly isn't an ideal situation and it probably seems like a flaw in the whole double opt-in approach. But if you think about it, this outcome, this is actually why the double opt-in is so important because without it, you just go ahead and introduce person A to person B, and then person B would ghost them or resent the obligation or turn out to be a poor connection anyway. And that would reflect even more poorly on you. So yes, you do have to take it on the chin when an introduction doesn't work out, but you're actually being a thoughtful networker by putting that on yourself rather than shifting the disappointment to the people you were trying to introduce. And I'd say that that outcome where one party just flat out is not interested in taking you up on an introduction. It's pretty rare. It does happen with regularity, but it's not that huge. 

[00:47:39] That said there is a good way and a bad way to handle this. The worst way, it's just to ghost party A so you never have to tell him what happened. That'll make you look flaky and shady. A slightly better, but still not great way is to tell a person A, "Look, I tried, they weren't interested. Sorry." You're closing the loop. So that's good. But you might make person A feel kind of bad. And also it sort of could reflect a little bit on person B because you're saying, oh, they don't, they don't like person A, right? 

[00:48:09] So the best way to handle this is to just be open about it. You can write or call person A and just be like, "So look, I asked person B if they were down to meet you, but they didn't engage. So this one's not going to work out. Sorry about that. I don't know the deal is I'm bummed too, but I'd rather know now than introduce you to somebody who wouldn't be a great connection for you." An update like that sends all of the right signals. It doesn't try to hide the ball. It shows that you respect person A enough to tell them the truth. And it reminds them that your top priority is making great connections for them. 

[00:48:42] I actually do this with tons of people. It's never backfired. In fact, most people, they understand. They appreciate it. And if that still feels awkward for you. You could always preface your introduction offers with something like, "Look, I can't promise person B will be available right now, but I'm happy to try." That way, if they do turn you down, you've already prepared person A and it won't be as awkward later. In fact, you probably shouldn't be making promises anyways, and it doesn't even sound like you did. "Oh yeah. They love to work on this with you." I mean, we can't do that, right? 

[00:49:10] By the way, if somebody tells me that they're flat out, not interested, I'll usually say something like, "Well, it's not a good time right now, but maybe we can try later." If that's actually true, if someone just says, "Oh, I'm so busy. I don't want any more intros. I'm not doing any podcasts because I'm on a book tour. I'm taking a vacation." I will say, "It's not a good time right now we can try later," and I'll just leave it there. A general way to say no to any introduction if somebody tells you they're not interested is, just to say, "Now is not a good time for this introduction." It just all you need to say without reflecting poorly on anyone because it doesn't cast judgment on the quality of any of the parties involved. It just sounds like the stars didn't align, which is nobody's fault. 

[00:49:53] But listen, If you find that people are declining your introductions a lot, then it's time to reassess. That could mean that you're not introducing the right people for the right reasons or that you're, you're not managing these relationships as well as you could be so that people trust an introduction from you. Or it just means that you're connecting with people who don't value your generosity, which honestly it's their loss. There's no need to keep investing in people who aren't on the same wavelength. But honestly, I wouldn't sweat this too much. It's bound to happen from time to time, especially if you're making a ton of introductions, which is great. Give the script to try. I think you'll find that this scenario really is not as terrible as you think. And I love that you're thinking about this. So thoughtfully though, that is a great sign. 

[00:50:36] And if you want more on the double opt-in intro, it's all covered in Six-Minute Networking, jordanharbinger.com/course is where that is. And if you're new to this show, it's free. And if you're not new to the show, you've heard me say that at 10,000 times. All right. Thanks, everybody. 

[00:50:49] Hope you all enjoyed that. I do want to thank everyone that wrote in this week. Everyone who's listening, thank you as well. You are amazing. Go back and check out the episodes from this week, Dr. Michio Kaku and Charlamagne Tha God if you haven't checked those out. It's great weekly show. A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at jordanharbinger.com. Transcripts are in the show notes. There videos on our YouTube channel of Feedback Friday, and the interviews. jordanharbinger.com/youtube is where those are at. I'm at @JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram or just hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi or on Instagram at @GabrielMizrahi

[00:51:27] This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My amazing team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Millie Ocampo, Josh Ballard, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions, those are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on this show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who can use the advice that we gave here today. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:52:03] Here's what you should check out next on The Jordan Harbinger Show. 

[00:52:07] Matthew Schrier: Boom, the silver Jeep Cherokee just cuts across from the oncoming lane and forces us to a stop. The doors popped open and they got out. The guy in the front seat, you know, he was cloaked head to toe in black. He had an AK in his hand. Dude in the back seat, just this pockface guy sweater with a chrome pistol in his hand. They jumped out and I knew exactly what was going on. I was just like in shock. 

[00:52:28] Dude in the black came over, opened the cab door, takes me out, leads me up to the Cherokee, puts me in the back seat. He gets in after me. I looked at him. He reaches up. He pulls the ski cap I was wearing because it's cold and Syria in December, this is New Year's Eve. He pulls it over my eyes and leans me forward and presses the barrel of the rifle to my head. And we took off a couple of seconds later. 

[00:52:48] I just still didn't know who had me. So, the way to figure out who has me was I asked for a cigarette because like pretty much everyone in the Free Syrian Army smokes and anyone in the gang will smoke. And when they told me I can't smoke, that's when I knew I was really deep trouble with the Al-Nusra Front, which is Al-Qaeda. 

[00:53:04] And they bring me up to the hall to the boiler room. And that's where they torture people. There's kids everywhere. There's a guy hanging from a pipe by handcuffs. They set me down with my knees, bent up to my chin and they forced of car tire around my knees. And they take an iron rod and they slide it over the tire, but underneath the crook and that locks it into place. 

[00:53:28] And then they flip you over on your stomach. So you're cuffed and your feet are in the air and you can't move and they take a thick cable. And that's what they use. They start wailing on the bottoms of your feet. Let me tell you something. It freaking hurts. And I got 115. That was the beginning of our punishment.

[00:53:55] Well, what are you out of your mind? We're trying to escape from a terrorist prison here. We have more to worry about getting your arm jammed between a rock and a hard place for 127 hours. And he's like, "Well, I never saw that movie." And I was just like, "Aaaah!" 

[00:54:06] Jordan Harbinger: To hear about how Matthew survived captivity and escaped being held hostage by Al-Qaeda in Syria, check out episode 217 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

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