1291: Should Self-Harm Scars Be Shareable Memoirs? | Feedback Friday

1291: Should Self-Harm Scars Be Shareable Memoirs? | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the dark matter, helping me hold this galaxy of life drama together, preventing this advice cosmos from flying apart Gabriel Mizrahi. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from rocket scientists to forest our generals, arms dealers, drug traffickers, former Jihadi. This week we had Danny Wrench. He's actually one of the co-founders of chess.com, international Chess master author of Dark Squares, how Chess Saved My Life.

He grew up in a crazy, abusive religious. Cult and chess became his escape, his path to survival, his career. This guy had a really wild journey from being a traumatized kid to becoming a top chess player. It's a story of identity, brilliance, [00:01:00] and resilience. So much to talk about here. Really interesting guy who was a two-parter.

We also did a Skeptical Sunday last Sunday on test prep books and courses On Fridays, though we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious sound bites, and hypothesize as best we can about the murky physics that govern this beautiful universe of life conundrum. Before we kick off, I wanted to share something really fascinating that Gabe sent me this week.

So there's this guy named Adam Aleksic. He's a linguist influencer. He probably hates that word as do I, but he runs an Instagram account called Etymology Nerd, where he creates these cool videos that break down the origins of words. But these days he's talking more about how language and culture and meaning impact one another in general.

And I've only just kind of discovered him. Gabe, you've been following him for a while. Yeah. He seems pretty interesting. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: He's great. I'm a big fan. I've learned so much from this account. It's fascinating.

Jordan Harbinger: So he made this video recently about the comment section on the internet, and it's kind of, you know, I've always sort of suspected something along these lines, but basically what Adam explains, and I'm taking his word for all this, but he cites a bunch of studies and he seems like a smart cookie.

[00:02:00] So I'm inclined to trust him, what Adam says. Is that we often think about the comment section as some type of neutral forum, when actually there's a very specific type of person who tends to show up in the comment section and that person, first off, they skew unemployed because you know, they have time to comment on random crap on the internet.

But also they tend to be more privileged since they're more used to voicing their opinions in public, which means they're more comfortable participating in debates and conversations online. Meanwhile, just like women in real life are conditioned to speak up less, and I know there's a ton of research on that, women on social media are also socialized into being less likely to pop off in the comments section.

Plus they have to worry more about her harassment and cyber stalking and all that stuff. And so what that means is there's a disproportionate percentage of men unemployed men. The comments. So that might seem obvious and maybe you're like, okay, that makes sense. But so what, and the point Adam made, which I think is really important, is this becomes a concern when we treat the comments section as some kind of [00:03:00] egalitarian venue for ideas.

Because studies show that the comments we read online, they actually do affect how we process and understand online content.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right? We're trained into thinking that the conversations we're dropping in on, in the comments reflect some kind of like democratic consensus about what everybody thinks and feels.

But in reality, there's this huge bias because there's a huge bias to who comments in the first place super interesting.

Jordan Harbinger: And things get even more skewed because the comments you do see online, they're largely determined by the algorithm, right? So you might not, you're not even seeing the same thing as another person.

So we really shouldn't be treating the comments as a neutral thing whatsoever. And I just wanted to share that with you guys because it really landed with me both as somebody who gets a ton of comments online. And is prone like many of us, to forming conclusions based on them. And also as somebody who just enjoys scrolling through the comments of other accounts to see what everybody's getting worked up about, which is kind of a silly little hobby of mine.

But actually more importantly, I actually thought this was a really good reminder of how aware we need to be of the information we consume and the information [00:04:00] around that information, the hidden forces that shape it, and the biases that are built in that are just so hard to see and to be careful about not forming strong opinions based on those ideas too easily, especially on social media.

So thanks to Adam Aleksic for that. You can find him on Instagram at Etymology Nerd. All right, fun ones. Doozies and a big life update from Uncle Gabriel over here. What's the first thing outta the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hi, Jordan and Gabe. Five years ago I was struggling with an eating disorder and self-harm. Since then, I've done a lot of therapy and self-reflection, and I'm genuinely in the best place I've ever been.

I'm proud of the progress I've made and the work it took to get here.

Jordan Harbinger: Incredible. Congrats my friend. Huge growth.

Gabriel Mizrahi: What I still struggle with though is how to handle questions about the plethora of self-harm. Scars on my arms as they are hard to miss. Adults sometimes ask out of curiosity, but more often it's children who notice and ask very directly what happened.

Well, I'm not ashamed of the honest answer and I'm proud of my story. [00:05:00] I'm also aware that it can be heavy or morbid for some people, especially kids, and I don't feel it's my place to decide when or how a parent introduces topics like self-harm to their child. In the past, I've deflected with jokes saying I fought a lion or made my cat angry.

But lately I find myself feeling worse about lying than I would about telling some version of the truth. How do you recommend navigating these moments? Is there a way to be honest without sharing too much or crossing boundaries with children and their parents? And looking ahead, if I have children of my own one day, how should I talk to them about my scars when the question inevitably comes up in a way that is honest and age appropriate and doesn't place an emotional weight on them?

Signed looking for some tips on how to discuss my sick of tricks.

Jordan Harbinger: Really good question. Very thoughtful. So first of all, I'm very sorry that you struggled with this eating disorder and with cutting. That must have been a really hard period. But man, so amazing. You went to therapy, did so much work, came out the other side.

You're proud of the progress you've made, as you should [00:06:00] be. I mean, I'm proud of you, but yeah, I totally get why it's hard to know how to handle a conversation like this, especially with kids. We wanted to run all of this by an expert, so we reached out to Dr. Erin Margolis, clinical psychologist and friend of the show, famously known, but not sound bitten as the doctor.

Dr. Margolis had the same reaction I did. She said, it's incredible how far you've come. You've been through so much. She sees you for all of it. She also said that when it comes to a conversation like this, there really is no one size fits all answer navigating these moments. It really does depend on the person who's asking the situation, if it's an adult, a teen, a child,

Gabriel Mizrahi: and your relationship with them.

Of course,

Jordan Harbinger: yeah. And if it is a child, how old they are, their developmental age, meaning the age level at which they function emotionally, cognitively, socially, their emotional maturity, all that stuff. I mean, you could talk to a 16-year-old who would be totally freaked out and unprepared to talk about something like a self harm.

And you might come across a 10-year-old who's really kind of ready to have some version of that conversation. So Dr. Margolis general take is whether this is a [00:07:00] random kid or your own kid, this approach requires some flexibility. You get to decide, well, you and the kid together, and potentially the kid's parents with very young kids.

Maybe you say, well, I got a booboo, but I'm all better now. Or, I got hurt but I'm healed now. And maybe just kinda leave it at that with an older kid. Maybe you explain with more detail and more nuance.

Gabriel Mizrahi: One idea Dr. Merkel has had that I liked a lot was you might wanna lead with the minimal amount of information necessary, and then if the kid asks follow-up questions, if they seem like they can handle it.

That might signal that they're ready for more details and then you go from there,

Jordan Harbinger: right? Follow the kids' lead in that regard. I think that's wise and if slash when you talk about this with your future child, maybe when you tell them, you also say, but you don't need to worry about me or feel sad about me.

You can also frame the story in terms of your resilience. Instead of being like, mommy was so sick, she hurt herself. You could say Mommy was upset and hurt herself and realized that that wasn't a good way to handle her feelings. So she got a lot of help and learned how to better handle her feelings so you never have to worry and now she can help you with your feelings.

These scars remind me of how far I've come, [00:08:00] something like that. That would be a good way to talk about this without creating an emotional burden for the kid.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dr. Margolis also pointed out, you know, rather than trying to avoid provoking any feelings in your child about this, it's more important to help them manage any feelings about it that do come up.

So obviously, you're not going to intentionally freak your kid out or freak any other person's kid out, or make them sad or disturbed on purpose by all of this. But if your child has some natural feelings about learning that you hurt yourself, rather than trying to avoid them completely, Dr. Margolis felt that it's better to help them work through those feelings and regulate them and make sense of them.

In other words, make room for your child's response. You know, listen to them, talk to them, show them how to feel those feelings without being consumed by them or feeling like they create some kind of emotional obligation for them. All of that. That seems to me the real opportunity in this conversation.

Jordan Harbinger: Dr. Margolis was also curious about why you suddenly feel bad about lying about your scars, like what's changed for you that might hold a clue to all this. She pointed out that if you didn't tell the whole story [00:09:00] about your scars, you wouldn't be lying from a place of deceit or malice. I'm not even sure that I would call it lying per se.

You're just recognizing that certain topics might not be appropriate to discuss with a child. Especially with a child who isn't yours. And like you said, it might not be your place that's not manipulative or insincere. I think that's thoughtful. But I'm guessing that because you've come so far and you don't wanna be ashamed of your past, not talking openly about the scars might make you feel like you're going back in the closet, so to speak.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. But that isn't quite what's happening here. All she's doing is being sensitive to a child and their needs and what's appropriate in the situation. To your point, so she's good. I think

Jordan Harbinger: authenticity, honesty, self-disclosure, yes. To all of those. But they don't Trump being thoughtful and sensitive when it comes to how a kid would understand something like this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, there are also degrees of honesty, right? It's not all or nothing. Being authentic doesn't necessarily mean telling a child everything. It just means being genuine about the parts that you do share.

Jordan Harbinger: Good point. But honestly, I don't know how I'd feel if Junie came home from dance class and she was like, the teacher showed me her scars and told me she hurt herself when she was a [00:10:00] ballerina.

'cause she was so stressed out. I'd be like, um. Okay. Maybe it's time to have a little chat with Marielle down at the ballet studio.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. Maybe wait on watching Black Swan as a family together. Yeah, yeah. But you're, you're right. Take it to your friends. Marielle, not the four year olds. You're teaching how to play every afternoon.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Time to get Marielle a BetterHelp subscription is what I think. If I were in your shoes and I did wanna talk to a kid in my life about this, I would probably give the parents a heads up. Like, Hey, your child asked me about this. Are you okay with me telling them about it? Or Your kid asked, and this is what I told them.

I just wanted you to know in case they want to talk to you about it. At least that way you avoid the kid doing what kids often do, which is go home and blurt out. Aunt Nicole taught me about self-harm today. Or tell the other kids at school about the cool thing they learned about cutting or whatever.

And then suddenly you're getting 37 angry texts about how you were out of pocket for teaching their kid about self-harm. And, uh, you know,

Gabriel Mizrahi: good point. I'm sure you've seen versions of this at your kids' schools over the years. Mm. I'm with Dr. Margolis on this. When it comes to kids who are not yours, it is probably up to their parents to decide when [00:11:00] to broach this topic.

Jordan Harbinger: People are sensitive about this. Man. Speaking of kids' schools, there's, there's a WhatsApp group of course, for all the parents, and it's California and it's a, you know, not a super hippie school, but like a, it's a private school in California. Okay. So

Gabriel Mizrahi: people are like somewhat open and cool or

Jordan Harbinger: what? Yes.

However, there's also this huge contingent of like Chinese immigrants, certain and Taiwanese immigrants, they tend to skew a little bit more conservative socially. Mm-hmm. And so the regular parents group is like. Hey, we're doing this and blah, blah, blah. And then the, the Chinese parents group is like, did you see that?

There's a book in the library about a little girl who has two dads.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Ah.

Jordan Harbinger: And then the next two weeks are only about this book, about this little girl that has two dads.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Wait, these are two different WhatsApp groups?

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. One's in Chinese and one's in English.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. So the Chinese parents created their own WhatsApp group, and part of what they're doing is talking about the, the mainstream WhatsApp group and all the drama in there.

Jordan Harbinger: The other one is like, Hey, who's volunteering for the bake sale? Hey, are we gonna do this auction? Hey, do you think they would want pots and pans for the auction? Hey, uh, can anyone take over my volunteer slot? I [00:12:00] had to, to go into work early. I can't read to the kids. And the Chinese group is like, can you believe they're teaching that?

Some kids have two dads. And it's like, there's literally a kid, an Asian kid with two dads, so like they know that this happens in real life. Come on, it's, and there's a book that happens to have that in there. I don't know. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Talk about being in your own media silo.

Jordan Harbinger: Holy smoke.

That's,

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's hilarious.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: You guys do realize that there are real people out there with two dads. It's not just a weird fictional story. I don't wanna be political, but there's, there's this thread about how learning about that it's gonna make some kids gay

Gabriel Mizrahi: in the WhatsApp group. They're saying that.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And it's like, guys, you not, not

Gabriel Mizrahi: how

Jordan Harbinger: it works. You did not how it works. No. Not how this particular thing especially works.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Every, everyone knows going to the library makes you gay.

Jordan Harbinger: Go to li It's, yeah. It's not the book, it's just books in general. It's just

Gabriel Mizrahi: touching

Jordan Harbinger: them. Everybody knows they may touching books.

Makes you gay. All right. Um, what are we even talking about, right? Anyway,

Gabriel Mizrahi: we're talking about truth, Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger: That's what we're talking about. So I know there's a little bit of tension here between owning your story and calibrating your response, but I think that's [00:13:00] exactly as it should be when it comes to kids with adults.

You can obviously handle this however you want, but being judicious about what you share with a child and how, I don't think that's compromising yourself or being ashamed or anything like that, you know what's in your heart. So I appreciate how thoughtful you're being about all this. And again, I'm super impressed and proud of how well you've taken care of yourself, the, this remarkable place you've landed.

I hope these scars are a reminder of that. Well done my friend, and good luck. Big thanks to Dr. Margolis for her wisdom and advice. Dr. Margolis is seeing patients in Los Angeles and virtually throughout California. You can learn more about her and her approach at drerinmargolis.com. And now for the kind of cutting you can tell everyone about the merciless slashing of the prices on the fine products and services that support this show.

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Now back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, my future husband and I decided to do a destination wedding in the Dominican Republic and we gave all of our guests a year's notice in December, 2025 that it would happen in January, 2027.

Jordan Harbinger: Destination wedding. Nice. My, uh, clearly my invitation got lost in the mail, but it happens.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I didn't get one either. Weird.

Jordan Harbinger: That is strange. Yeah. Well, it's not

Gabriel Mizrahi: about

Jordan Harbinger: some friend. She is. Anyway, carry on. How can we solve her problem without a plus one and an open bar? As a thank you, don't worry about it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: One of our guests is a friend from my fiance's childhood. She's his sister's friend and the sister of the best man.

She and I get along. We see each other [00:17:00] weekly. Interestingly, she doesn't see her brother the best man very often. The issue I keep running into is that she is so negative. When I told her that we would be doing a destination wedding, she assumed she was invited and went on a tirade about how selfish it is to ask people to travel.

Jordan Harbinger: What? Okay. So she's like, oh, it's in Italy. Well, clearly I am invited. And also, what a nightmare. How dare you? This is so irritating and expensive.

Gabriel Mizrahi: While also assuming she was invited when it was far from a done deal. Yeah, that she, that's so funny.

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, okay, it's not a small thing, a destination wedding. I know it's not convenient or doable for everyone.

I get that. But that response is somehow, that's so annoying.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I didn't mention it for a few months until we had everything booked and secured and then she brought it up at a group gathering.

Jordan Harbinger: So they're American, right?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm not sure, but presumably American.

Jordan Harbinger: This is even more annoying now 'cause Italy incredible.

You should be so lucky. But yeah, it's a schlep. The Dominican Republic. What is that, like three to six hours depending on where you live in the states? As long as you're not in Hawaii or Alaska. Come on. [00:18:00]

Gabriel Mizrahi: I think it's three hours from Miami. I, I've waited at the DMV longer than that. Like that's not that bad.

Jordan Harbinger: I've, I've waited for a table at, didn't I fun for longer than that for lunch.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Those dumplings though,

Jordan Harbinger: those dumplings down

Gabriel Mizrahi: worth the wait.

Jordan Harbinger: I am already annoyed at this woman, but let's see where this goes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: She again, presumed that she was invited and went on about how stupid destination weddings

Jordan Harbinger: are. Mm.

Yeah. So it really was not a Faye a accompli that she was invited and that, that's, this is hilarious. Somehow

Gabriel Mizrahi: this is like the definition of tone duff and self-absorbed. Yes. This is cartoonish

Jordan Harbinger: to say this, by the way, seconds after the bride invited you or didn't invite you, you just assumed, assumed the bride invited you.

I mean, if that's how you feel, fine. But do you have to express your opinion out loud in front of everyone right then and there, Amanda?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, Amanda, not Jessica.

Jordan Harbinger: No. I'm, I'm going with Amanda. I'm doing my part to spare the Jessica's of the world.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, but now you're pissing off all the Amanda's listening, so thank you for that.

To try

Jordan Harbinger: it off. It's a trade off one's got. That's right. If this, Amanda can pop off about how much she hates destination weddings. I can randomly choose a gal's name to bring this [00:19:00] malcontent to life. This person is ridiculous.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Fair is fair. I wanna believe that there's some reason Amanda is acting like this.

Like she must be struggling financially. Or maybe she doesn't wanna have to decline the invitation, although that's weird. 'cause she assumed she was invited. So what's that? If you don't wanna go, then you wouldn't push to be invited. But even if that's true, this is such a weird way of doing it.

Jordan Harbinger: No. If you're a normal person, you stay quiet later, you go to the bride like, listen, I'm so sorry.

I don't know if I can afford this or I, I can't take off work or whatever. You don't just crap all over the most important day of the bride's life whom you're basically related to, who you assume had the kindness to invite you. She just sucks. She's socially inept.

Gabriel Mizrahi: When I finally sent out the invitations, my fiance said that we kind of have to invite her since we live in a really small community and we interact with her on a pretty regular basis.

I reluctantly agreed. I feel like if we didn't, she would've been incredibly hurt and that would've been the end of our friendship. I don't mind her, but anytime we talk about the wedding alone or in a group setting, she becomes so negative about it. My sister-in-law and I are bringing our children to [00:20:00] the wedding.

There will be eight kids in total, ranging from three to 17, only kids who are family, and both of our parents will be there, so we will be okay with help for the kids. There will be approximately 40 people at the wedding. We went to dinner with this friend the other night, and she went on a tangent about how she told my sister-in-law that it's stupid of her to bring her kids.

She meaning Amanda, refuses to help with childcare because it's her holiday, and sister-in-law better not ask her to watch the kids. She's also stated multiple times that she will not be giving us a gift. Her presence is the gift.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That's hilarious. Dude. I'm not getting you a Vitamix. All right. I am the gift.

This person is unnecessarily irritating. Just going the extra mile to be annoying.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. More like going 15 a hundred miles to be annoying. Am I right? Yeah. Okay. Little pro tip, Amanda. Uh, this is what the person you're giving a gift to says to you that you didn't have to, that you're the gift. It's not what you say to the person because you didn't wanna buy them something.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Unbelievable. What a top [00:21:00] shelf, you know, what it involves next Tuesday and how I'll see you there. So I think I have the picture now. This, she's just a self-absorbed jerk.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I have zero expectation of a gift when we're asking friends and family to travel. I'm just confused about why she would say that to me months ahead.

It seems so unnecessary. It's getting to the point where I know she'll be rude about the expense and ruin it for sister-in-law and me. Sister-in-law, by the way, is her closest friend on the trip, and even her oldest son was disappointed to hear that Amanda would be attending because of how rude she's seen her be.

Oh

Jordan Harbinger: dude, even the kids hate her. That's bananas. Usually kids don't have time for an opinion on the adults.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm now having a lot of regret about inviting her. I feel like I can't rescind her invitation now, but I don't know how to li. We will see about that, but I don't know how to listen to her complaint about the wedding for the next year.

I've said multiple times that her attendance isn't mandatory and no one is forcing her to go, but her deposit is paid and a room and everything are booked. Every discussion we have about this, she [00:22:00] continues to bemoan the whole experience. Unfortunately, she's one of those people who is almost proud to be a quote unquote bitch as she refers to herself.

Jordan Harbinger: Of course, sub dude, she's one of those. She's literally going, yeah, I'm a bitch. Back up. Show some respect. Screw this lady. These people suck. This is just all red flags everywhere.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Do I just let her come to the wedding, hope for the best, and ignore her? Do I sit her down for a full conversation about her attitude?

Do I rescind her invitation? If so. Signed at the end of my run and under the gun to tell the self-professed B, that she gets a minus one.

Jordan Harbinger: I think you can tell where I'm going with this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I don't make it a cash bar, but only for her somehow.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's right. She can come, but she's gonna have to sit at a table alone with all the gifts, you know?

'cause she's the gift. I'm gonna do that thing I love to do where I go. If I were a kinder, more enlightened person, here's how I'd frame this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: My favorite game.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And then I'm gonna tell you what I would do because

Lip Filla Clip: ain't nobody got time for that.

Jordan Harbinger: If I'm [00:23:00] being kind Gabe. I'm just, I'm saving you some work here.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Thank you. I appre it's been a very crazy week. So you're helping me out.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. I, if I'm being kind, I'd say Amanda is a deeply unhappy person. She's in pain. That's why she's acting like a total bi. Mm-hmm. Happy people, healthy people. Well adjusted people who are secure and have basic social skills. They don't do stuff like this.

Just stating the obvious. In fact, this whole, yeah, I'm a bitch. That's just me. Deal with it. I have to assume that's her way of trying to make her unhappiness. Okay. By calling it out and owning it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm. Turning it into her identity.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Like I'm not totally unselfaware, I know I'm a raging a-hole. Also, it's not dysfunction or mental illness.

It's just me being a tough kookie who can't behave and I'm proud of it or whatever. Mm-hmm. That way it's not something she has to, you know, actually address or work on. It's just Right. It's who she is. Take it or leave it. That's total bs, but whatever. So from that perspective, maybe you can find some compassion for Amanda.

Maybe, I'm not saying you have to, I'm not saying you owe it to her after everything she's done, but maybe that compassion will make you wanna [00:24:00] sit down with her, like you said, and just have a real conversation about her attitude. Maybe you say, listen, Amanda, I can see that you're not a fan of the destination wedding.

I guess I can imagine your reasons why, although you haven't made them totally clear to me. I realize it's not a small thing to ask of our guests, but we thought it would be fun and special. It'll be an experience, and we invited you because you're an important part of our world. But I gotta tell you the repeated comments you made about the wedding, the complaining, the criticism, the general negativity, it's been confusing and disappointing and honestly quite hurtful.

I'm actually pretty stressed out about the wedding because, you know, I'm worried you're gonna come and not have a good time, and that's gonna make it hard for me to fully enjoy the weekend. So I feel I owe it to both of us to talk to you about this directly, to tell you how these comments are landing with me and with my husband.

To give you a chance to explain why you're acting this way and to ask if you're gonna accept our invitation. I really hope you'll be coming in a different spirit because this vibe, it's just not sitting well with me and it doesn't seem very fun for you either. Then see what she says and if she's like, oh my God, I've been such a bitch.

I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed. That's a good sign. Hopefully you [00:25:00] guys can talk it through and get to a better place.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Honestly, dude, maybe she needs to be called out a little bit by somebody close to her. People tend to walk on eggshells around characters like this. If you are the one person who refuses to do that any longer.

Might shock her a little bit in a good way. And I don't know, given everything you've shared, I'm sure everybody in your circle wishes they could have this conversation with her.

Jordan Harbinger: Totally agree. Someone's gotta call this woman out. Might as well be now around the wedding where she's acted so egregiously and frankly made your case very strong.

But look, she might also be like, who are you to tell me how to feel? You're making me fly down to Dominican Republic. You just can't handle somebody who tells it like it is. Right. Or even if she just kind of shuts down or wiggles outta the conversation. That's also gonna tell you a lot.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So you said you would tell us what you would really do.

What does she do at that point? Disinvite her.

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, I would love to do that. Yeah. But I also don't have to deal with the consequences. Right,

Gabriel Mizrahi: right. Because it might mean causing tension with sister-in-law and best man. Right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. And I hate that and that's the consequence. But it, it's also like, well, whose fault is that?

Not, not the bride.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Here's another option. And this could sidestep some of that tension. Maybe [00:26:00] you ask sister-in-law and or best man what their read on the situation is. You know, maybe they're like, oh yeah, we're also at the end of our rope with Amanda. We're just. Keeping things uneven, keel. We're putting up with her for the wedding and maybe that gives you a little more license to either sit down with her or have that chat or disinvite her.

Or maybe they say, yeah, this is not cool. I'm sorry about this. Let us talk to her. Maybe we can straighten this out.

Jordan Harbinger: Good idea. That would be a nice solution. Also, if Amanda hears this from two or three people, not just the bride, it's gonna be harder for her to dismiss. Or here's another option, instead of having them talk to Amanda, what if you go to her and you say something like, Hey Amanda, I've noticed you had some really strong feelings about the destination wedding, which is totally fair.

We recognize it's a big commitment. I don't want any of our guests to feel obligated, resentful, financially pressured, anything like that to be there. So I just want to give you a graceful way out if you'd rather not come. We completely understand. No hard feelings. We'll release the room, refund what we can.

I just want everyone who's there to actually wanna be there, and I don't wanna make anybody be a part of the wedding if they're not [00:27:00] feeling it, which I totally understand.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Very clever. So both a graceful way out, but also kind of a way to say, please be positive and enthusiastic. Or don't come.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly.

Elegantly put her on notice a little bit. She might still come, but hopefully she'll know that our friend here is clocking that attitude and just be a little more gracious.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And then if she continues to complain about the wedding, then our friend here can say, Hey, didn't we talk about this? What's going on?

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Then that's so much easier. It's not jumping straight to you can't come. I read on Amanda, just having dealt with people like this before, I think she's probably pre rejecting everything and everyone, because rejection hurts her. And she's like, oh, well you can't reject me. Look, I hate everyone and everything.

And I say it out loud it like it is. Right. She's one of those.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I could totally see that. Yeah. Why else do you do that?

Jordan Harbinger: Well, she might even resent taking part in something joyful because it highlights her misery in life. I mean, who knows? I had some of that at my wedding.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Really?

Jordan Harbinger: And I think you can guess who I'm talking about.

I mean, there were people who just like had to complain to other people about everything, and it was like, why are you doing that? Oh, right. I know [00:28:00] why you're doing that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm. That's really sad.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. So it's very possible. The wedding is bringing up a lot of stuff for her, but it's just coming out as her shitting on it.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. '

Gabriel Mizrahi: cause she wants to devalue it because it makes her feel bad.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. A lot of women who are single and having relationship troubles, they hate weddings. Especially if it's somebody in their tight circle, because it's like, well, one less person where we can say like, yeah, screw man, we're good. We don't need them.

It's like, Nope, I'm paired up and so is everyone else. And oh, you're not. Uh, it's starting to look like it's not the guys. Maybe it's a you thing, Amanda, you know, that's not a comfortable feeling. And so look, I guess this whole situation, it, it does gimme a little more compassion for her now that I think about it.

But it doesn't let her off the hook for being mean. We know mean people are hurt people. So actually little dark Jordan idea occurring to me don't disinvite her. Give her a wedding job.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh. Like actually put her on the babysitting duty?

Jordan Harbinger: Well, no, 'cause she specifically said not to. And

Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah. That would be like retaliatory,

right?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, exactly. I'm thinking like, manage the gift bags or [00:29:00] something. Hmm. Then it's like your gift is helping with the gifts. Thanks.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You're no longer just a gift. You're also the organizer.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But what are you thinking? Because then when she gets a job, she'll be like, actually, I can't make it to the wedding.

Jordan Harbinger: Or she's too busy to complain to the bride, and she might actually feel some ownership of the event. Ah. And make it nice. And make it fun. Like, oh, I'm, I'm part of the thing here, so I gotta do a good job and show everybody that I'm important and I'm special. Good

Gabriel Mizrahi: point.

Jordan Harbinger: Because I'm helping. One of the reasons people complain is they want it to be like, but we really want you to come.

We really thank you so much for going outta your way and coming because we really want you to be there. And this sort of says, Hey, I actually need your help with this. And then instead of whining, she can be like, okay, well I really, I have so much work to do managing the gifts. And then it's like, thanks Amanda.

Right? And then just feels good about herself doing this. She's dysfunctional in that way.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I truthfully cannot tell if this pitch is manipulative or brilliant because it's like asking her to rise to the standards Yes. Of the event, which is actually a really nice way to [00:30:00] deal with somebody like this. Well, this is dark

Jordan Harbinger: Jordan, right?

It is manipulative, but it's also supposed to be kind of clever. Okay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. It's also kinda the way you treat a kid who's throwing a tantrum and you're like, well actually, why don't you help me do the thing? And then we'll both have to be leaders.

Jordan Harbinger: This comes from my kids, where Jane's like, why does she get.

That, and I don't, and I want this. And we're like, Hey Jayden, we really need your help making sure that Juniper can do X, Y, Z because you're a big boy. And she's just little. And he's like, there you go. Oh, okay. And then he just helps her the whole time and he's very sweet and he's like, I helped, you know,

Gabriel Mizrahi: so basically they have to treat Amanda like they're 6-year-old.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. I, and frankly, Jayden's getting a little too old for this kind of thing, but Amanda is apparently in the prime emotional age group for this particular tactic.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And when she does a really good job helping the wedding coordinator set up, just be like, you're such a good girl, Amanda.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Rub her head and give her a little box of Legos to keep her busy for the rest of the night.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So Jordan, you are also getting at a bigger question here, which is this whole friendship might be up for debate. It's not just about the wedding invite.

Jordan Harbinger: I think so, yeah. Look, the wedding is just like the [00:31:00] primer.

If Amanda doesn't make a major correction here, I don't know how you can stay friends or why you would stay friends or even friendly with someone like this. I mean, she didn't really wanna be friends with her before all this. From what it sounded like. She wasn't even sure she wanted to invite her in the first place.

She kind of just did it to be nice. 'cause she had to, 'cause she's so tight in the circle with other people that it would've been weird. I mean, that's where we're at. Right,

Gabriel Mizrahi: right. Well, she might have also been avoiding having to break up with Amanda by inviting her. Yes. 'cause, not inviting her, would've basically sent the message that she was done being friends with her.

Jordan Harbinger: Bingo. Which I get, I mean, I had a wedding too, and the politics can be a minefield, but dude, only 40 people are coming. She probably already made some tough choices about who was invited.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right.

Jordan Harbinger: I don't see why she should tiptoe around this woman who's making it very easy to say. Hey, I'm sorry you're being super negative, very hurtful.

You, you clearly don't wanna come. You don't seem to wanna look at this in a new way. I'm pulling back. I'd love to give your plate to somebody who actually wants to go.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Look, if you end up dis inviting her, I would definitely try to have that bigger conversation first. I do think it's the right thing to do, and like Jordan said, the outcome of that chat is gonna tell you whether you can [00:32:00] either invite her without anxiety or disinvite her without Gelt.

If you don't wanna disinvite her and then deal with the fallout, then I would encourage you to find some ways for Amanda's negativity to not infect your big weekend. Maybe that means not having much contact with her leading up to the wedding. Maybe that means not paying any attention to her at the wedding at all.

Maybe it means reminding yourself that her negativity is not a reflection of you or your wedding, or frankly, even her true feelings about you. It's just her own unhappiness, her own confusion, and just put some healthy blinders on so you can enjoy your wedding.

Jordan Harbinger: It's also possible that once she's there, she'll be fine.

A few hours that Dominican sun, if you coco Locos on the beach, Amanda might be singing a very different tune.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's true. Maybe you get one of the groomsmen to hit on her.

Jordan Harbinger: Mm. You know,

Gabriel Mizrahi: maybe she just needs some action and she'll just chill right out.

Jordan Harbinger: Gray Gabriel, Gabe, that's for sure. Man. Somebody just needs to, uh, charm the mean out of her.

You know, I'm just, I'm guessing this whole, I'm a proud bitch vibe that's not doing her any favors on Bumble. Maybe she just needs a little,

Gabriel Mizrahi: can you imagine Amanda's [00:33:00] profile? One thing you should know about me is I'm the gift.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, totally. My typical Sunday complaining about all my friends' weddings to their face.

You know what, Gabe? Amanda, she's definitely one of those girls in their dating profile who says, if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best

Gabriel Mizrahi: 100%.

Jordan Harbinger: Whenever I see that, I mean, look, I'm not on dating apps, but my friends are, and they show me. It's like, just send me your criminal background check and tell me what meds you're on.

Let's skip the foreplay.

Gabriel Mizrahi: 100% of the people who say that's spend 364 days outta the year at their worst. There is no best. I don't know what they're talking about

Jordan Harbinger: exactly. Anyway, I'm sorry Amanda's acted like this. It's really unfortunate, mostly for her. Look, she's ultimately doing you a favor. Whatever you do, enjoy your wedding.

Have an incredible time. Don't let this professional grievance collector poison your plans. It sounds like it's gonna be a sick weekend, and if you need our addresses, again for those invitations that were clearly lost in the mail, because why would you not invite your favorite podcasters? Gabe can send you those from the [00:34:00] Feedback Friday inbox.

I, you know, I haven't been to the DR in a minute, so I'm excited to know where we're going.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, I've never been, and I don't even know what a Coco Loco is. No. So I think we have to go.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But, uh, just wanna go on record. I am not dancing with Amanda. I'm just, I want you to know that.

Jordan Harbinger: Come on, Gabe, take one for the team.

You wanna be a night? You gotta slay a dragon. That's how it works.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So gross that metaphor. And also not a team I wanna be a part of, but if that's what it takes to get the invite, okay, fine. But I'm definitely, I'm not bringing a gift.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, I, I'm not bringing the gift.

Gabriel Mizrahi: We are the gift, Jordan. That's right.

Jordan Harbinger: This podcast. I am. The gift with this podcast is the gift. You're welcome. You know what else is a gift? The amazing deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Mint Mobile. I used to assume overpaying for wireless was just part of the deal.

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Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by the Disorder podcast. You ever scroll through the news and think, did the world always feel this chaotic, or is it just me? Why do global crises keep piling up? AI and climate change corruption. Shady politicians. That's exactly what the Disorder Podcast [00:36:00] unpacks hosted by Jase p.

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Very practical. You can apply it right away and you can sign up at Jordan harbinger.com/news. All right, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I'm one half of a [00:37:00] creative duo at a big firm, and on paper we are crushing it when we're in sync, the work is effortless. My partner Tom, has zero chill when it comes to feedback.

Whenever we get notes from above, he goes into a tailspin and rants at me over teams. He trashes our boss, our partners, everyone he thinks he's being put upon while I'm sitting there thinking everyone is just doing their jobs. Plus, I think responding to feedback, even multiple rounds of feedback is just part of the job to top it off.

My boss sees Tom's quote unquote crap attitude and pulls me aside to complain about him. I've become the emotional dumping ground for both sides. I don't wanna ruin our creative groove because the output is so good, but I'm tired of being Tom's verbal punching bag and my boss's unofficial therapist. I want to keep the dream team title without the drama.

How do I set boundaries with a high performer who has a short fuse? How do I tell my boss to handle his own employee? Signed, [00:38:00] solving the riddle of getting out of the middle between a boss who belittles and a partner who's brittle.

Jordan Harbinger: Super interesting. One. Very common. I think, you know, getting feedback is always hard, even for me.

You know, it's never fun, but some people really can't take it in. It's just too wounding. Gabe, tell me if you're getting the same read here. It sounds like this guy's just super vulnerable to these notes. Clearly they're hitting him in a certain way. And his way of protecting himself psychologically, I mean, is to just get angry and lash out.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's exactly the sense I'm getting. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: It's a way to defend himself. Yeah. I had an old business partner like this. This guy would just go into a total tailspin at the most innocuous feedback or perceived slight, and it was really unsettling.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I could imagine. Yeah. I feel exposed and thrown off balance and inconvenienced becomes, these people are idiots and they're put, I'm put upon and I'm, it's a, this is a disaster for me and all of that.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Yeah. Dude, this person I just mentioned, his whole thing was, his whole thing really was if I freak out loudly enough and redirect enough and melt down enough. I won't have [00:39:00] to listen to and actually process feedback, which hurts my ego and sense of identity. It was just the definition of toxic and totally insane.

And you had to be enrolled in this thing, or he would get pissed at you too.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's very difficult to deal with.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It became a huge liability and in just an ongoing constant headache for me and I, his girlfriends, like anybody around him all the time, vendors, clients of our business, they would regularly be like, I'm not dealing with this guy anymore.

I'm firing you as a client. Oh, wow. And I, I often had to become a diplomat and to the point of contact because I was the person they could work well with. There was actually an a lawyer who we needed for a tax audit, and he was like, I refuse to work with you anymore. And Jen was like, what if I promised you'll never talk to him again?

And the guy was like, I need your word on that. And I don't even want him CC'd on threads. It was like, okay. And we basically had to put in writing that this guy would just never have contact with my business partner ever. And this guy was like a reasonable tax lawyer, A normal guy not,

Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah, he

Jordan Harbinger: come on.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Wasn't, wasn't looking for [00:40:00] a problem yet. I mean, if, if it gets to that point, like you have an issue and it's time to, to reconsider something.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That role that you fell into though is interesting. 'cause in one way, tell me if this was your experience, but I, I feel like that can be kind of gratifying 'cause you're like, oh, I'm the evolved one.

Like I'm the grownup. These people wanna work with me, so I'm happy to step into that role. But in another way, you are the one being put upon and it's very draining.

Jordan Harbinger: I would say that. That the good part of it lasts for a minute and the rest of it lasts the whole time because Sure. You become like a trauma sponge, which is exhausting and unsustainable.

Then you're on this, you're, oh, you're the one on the side of the vendor and now you're, then it wasn't, oh, Jordan's the only one he can work with. The vendors. It was Jordan and the vendors are ganging up on me, and it was just like, oh.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Then it becomes like a whole other problem,

Jordan Harbinger: dude, we're just trying to get through this IRS audit.

Can you just like not make yourself the center of the universe for five minutes?

Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, there's an extra layer with Tom, which is that he's really good at what he does, or at least he's really good when he's in partnership with our friend here. So my read on it is that he's also a little bit of a diva.

[00:41:00] Mm-hmm. Like, I'm so good. I can get away with acting like this

Jordan Harbinger: anyway. Look, we all get a little flustered when we get feedback. We all get riled up. But there's a difference between fetching to your creative partner for 10 minutes about how you, you know, the boss just doesn't get what it's like for us.

And there's a difference between that and having a three hour meltdown on the company Slack or teams or whatever, that that just causes everyone to stay later and finish the work because they're addressing your cry babyness on chat. Meanwhile, a friend here is like. It's just part of the job, kind of working at a company.

What is the big deal?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Well, the big deal is Tom is experiencing this feedback as a wound and narcissistic wound, as you pointed out. And our friend here is not feeling it that way.

Jordan Harbinger: Right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, I've had to work with a lot of feedback over the last decade or so in my writing. It's just kind of part of the, the screenwriting process.

You get a lot of notes. There are so many cooks in the kitchen. Everybody involved wants to have their input. I don't think I'm a Tom, but I have had a few Tom adjacent to meltdowns, you know, with my writing partner on a few projects, and sometimes it's [00:42:00] because I just like really disagreed with the notes and I resented being told by people who did not know the script as well as we did to change something that we really believed in.

That's kind of one category of anger I would feel sometimes in this process, but more often than not. It was because, you know, there were a few other things. One, I was embarrassed by the notes, plain and simple, like, oh man, you know, they pointed out this flaw on page 27. They found me out. I'm, I'm not as good of a writer as I thought.

I'm such an idiot to have missed that thing or made that choice, you know,

Jordan Harbinger: a writer. Embarrassed. Shocking.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Shocking. Right. So crazy. Famously, very reasonable bunch. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Writers famously stable and well adjusted.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It ends well for us, generally speaking. No dark endings or anything. But the other reason that I would get a little worked up sometimes is I wasn't always sure what to do with the notes.

And that can create a lot of uncertainty and fear, and then you feel the pressure of having to live up to them and satisfy these people, which is a very rough combination. But honestly, I think the real reason was until a few years ago, I was very identified with my writing. I still am, to be honest. It's hard [00:43:00] not to when you're the one writing it, but.

When I was younger, I felt like my writing was a total reflection and extension of me. So the notes really hurt. 'cause it was a, it wasn't just a like a technical thing.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That's relatable. I suppose

Gabriel Mizrahi: when someone points out a flaw in something you've made, sometimes it can feel like they're pointing out a flaw in you.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, yeah, but like, sorry to say this, I feel like this isn't helping at all, but when somebody does point something out about something an artist has made,

Gabriel Mizrahi: you're saying like, isn't that actually a flaw in the artist?

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, kind of, right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: A can can be, well wait to do all my progress in therapy over the last decade.

Thank you. Appreciate that. Uh, yes and no. Yes, in the sense that if there's a weakness in the work, it might very well be because of a limitation of mine. And yes, that stings, but one corner that I've had to turn is, do I want to know what those limitations are and actually work on them? Or do I wanna just protect myself?

I know the answer to that now I'm much more interested in developing. So the anger, the embarrassment, all that, that just comes with the territory. So that's one thing. But also not all technical flaws are personal failures. You know, my writing is personal to me. [00:44:00] Yes, it's a reflection of my abilities and my interests, my choices, but that doesn't mean it is me.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that's a helpful way to look at it. But to be fair, I think I've gone on a similar journey with my show, just, you know, getting older, but it's still hard for me to separate myself from the show sometimes when I get comments, I mean, it's called the freaking Jordan Harbinger Show. How is this criticism not about me?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Again, I cannot say I'm there a hundred percent. I don't know if I will ever be there a hundred percent, but you know, you can work on that. I have come a long way, so, you know, I don't know if you feel this way when you see, um, podcast reviews, but when I get notes now, even when they're kind of tough, even when I disagree, it's less you're my enemy and it's me and my work versus you and your thoughts.

It's more like we're all several minds trying to make this thing as good as it can be. I find that also really helps.

Jordan Harbinger: I really like that. But there's some ego extinguishing in that too, to let people in, invite their ideas.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. But of course, but that's important too. I mean, I don't know how it is in the whatever industry our friend here works in, but I feel like in a lot of places, the more minds on a problem, the better.

It doesn't mean you're [00:45:00] always gonna agree, it doesn't mean everyone's equally talented, but I do think that can be helpful when you're a Tom though, resisting the feedback might also be a way to protect the role of. Lone genius or whatever, or dream team in this case. So maybe that's also what's going on.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Like if he can stave off their notes, then he doesn't just protect himself. He also protects the idea that they don't need anybody else to do their best work.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly. And that's a fantasy too, and that's something else I've had to come to terms with. You know, sometimes partnering and collaborating itself can feel like a wound

Jordan Harbinger: because it means admitting you can't go it alone.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: But also in a corporate environment, I mean, we don't know what these guys do. I'm guessing it's advertising or something in that environment. You have to play well with other people. You can't get around it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Tom is not Don Draper, who by the way, also had a boss who he made sure to please every now and again.

Jordan Harbinger: Right. This is part of his job description. If you're a crotchety brilliant writer who works alone, maybe you can tell a publisher to screw off and it's fine. Or you can publish a substack or whatever. You work at publicists or whatever, you can't tell the SVPs and account managers to fly a kite 'cause you don't like them or their attitude or whatever.

Client service [00:46:00] team sport. So this guy's kind of delusional if he thinks he's just gonna be exempt from that 'cause he's a genius or something.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And part of that is also coping with bad feedback. I know I just said that, you know, you can think of feedback as everybody trying to make something better and that's nice, but sometimes people's feedback really does make things worse.

There is such a thing as bad ideas, you gotta work with that too.

Jordan Harbinger: Or it's more about managing the client than it is about producing objectively good work. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: In which case I might feel for Tom a little bit, it's possible that he's not having a narcissistic meltdown every single time. He might just be frustrated with the bosses or know that his ideas are better or he is just fed up with the system.

You know, he might have a point there.

Jordan Harbinger: Fair. But I'd still say suck it up, Tom, because that's just part of the game.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. And also because of the story you just told about your old business partner, I really feel for our friend here because you can hear how calm and grounded he is, and then he becomes the peacemaker between Tom and the higher ups.

Not easy.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. He's high functioning, he's healthy. He doesn't have a huge ego, so he can speak both languages and get the work done.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm guessing he also kind of insulates both sides from each other to some degree. So he [00:47:00] is a very useful person in a situation like this.

Jordan Harbinger: Either way, that's quite a responsibility and not one that he asked for.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No. Although it's interesting, my experience is that personality is like our friend heres, and maybe yours back in the old company, you know, they don't develop entirely by accident. If you're good at managing a Tom. If you're good at being a diplomat, it's usually because you learn that early on. And by the way, not entirely a bad thing.

This is kind of a superpower. It's an amazing skill to have in a corporate setting. But it might be interesting for a friend here to reflect on why he finds himself in this role in, in this particular dynamic with Tom,

Jordan Harbinger: right? What two puzzle pieces make up this dream team? So, okay, let's talk about how to deal with Tom.

You have a few options, all depend on his personality, your relationship, and what you want out of this situation. Option one is you set some boundaries, which it sounds like that's what you wanna do, and you gently check him slash protect yourself. Maybe say, listen Tom, I know it's annoying to get notes.

Let's give ourselves 10 minutes to complain, then let's dive in. Maybe when he complains, you nod. You [00:48:00] listen. You don't engage too much. You don't shut him down, but you don't indulge him either. And then you say, I get it. It's annoying. Let's see what we can do with these ideas. Sooner we hit it sooner it's over.

And if he pushes that boundary, tries harder to get you to validate him or pile on yourself. Maybe you shift to option two, which is maybe you say something like, Tom, I can see how worked up you are. I know you want company in this. I don't see these notes the same way. I just see them as part of our job.

I only have so much energy. I really need to preserve that energy to do something good with these notes, which we both know we're gonna have to do anyway.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I really like all of these options. I think whatever degree of boundary he goes with, he's gonna be communicating something important to Tom in the subtext.

It's kinda like our friend from the destination wedding, which is not only am I not interested in playing along with these meltdowns anymore, but also it's time to take more responsibility for how you are responding to this feedback and you need to take better care of yourself. 'cause that's not my job.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. I'm not your punching bag. I'm not your emotional babysitter anymore.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I do wanna warn him though, when he talks to Tom about this, things might get a little [00:49:00] worse before they get better. Tom might get a little angry at you for saying this. Mm-hmm. He might resent you for not being willing to play out this script anymore.

He might pull away and sulk. He might lash out more than before, and if he does, you don't need to be cruel about that. I would still be willing to talk that out with him, but I think whenever one party stops behaving the way they always have. Things can get a little bumpy and the other party will often react even more strongly in order to recreate the dynamic, even as they realize that things are changing.

Jordan Harbinger: What's the word for that again? I remember this concept.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Extinction burst.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, extinction burst. I remember reading that in parenting books when Jayden was born. It's like when a child throws a bigger tantrum when you refuse to give in.

Gabriel Mizrahi: This is so funny. Amanda and Tom are both like our, our friend's children

Jordan Harbinger: this

Gabriel Mizrahi: week.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, a little bit. Yeah. Our friend's been emotionally breastfeeding him for years now. He needs to make his own lunch. Finally.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Pump and dump in the kitchen at Tom. I don't know what to tell you.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway, if these bumps do come up, they're probably a sign that you're on the right track. I also wanna give you one other option, which is just to go at this a little more [00:50:00] directly, taking some inspiration from our friend from question two again.

You might want to take 'em out to dinner and say something like, listen Tom, I know how annoying feedback from the higher ups can be. I'm sure we would both rather just do our work and not get any input at all. Wouldn't that be great? But we can't. It's just not the way our business works and they are our bosses whether we like it or not.

Now I can see how challenging this feedback is for you and I also see how talented you are and maybe that makes it harder to take it in. Now, I've taken on the role of being your sounding board when you get frustrated, and I'm willing to do that, but I'm willing to do that only up until a point. So let's talk about it.

Do you wanna tell me how this feedback lands with you? Can you tell me why it gets you so worked up? And then try to have a real conversation with him about that.

Jordan Harbinger: I really like that. And if he gets mad at that or if he's like, why should I change? They're the A-holes who are taking advantage of us, then he's just really going out of his way not to listen.

As for your boss, I might hit pause on that. 'cause if you make progress with Tom, his boss might stop complaining to you as much. Angie probably run less risk of trying to work on this with your partner than telling your boss, Hey man, [00:51:00] handle your own employee. But look, if 3, 4, 5 months goes by and Tom refuses to engage with you on this at all, and the boss is still complaining to you, then maybe you say to your boss, look, I hear you.

I get it. Tom's reactions, they're tough. Have you thought about talking to him directly about all this? 'cause I think it might be important for him to hear it from you. And if he goes to Tom and he is like, dude, you have an attitude problem, maybe that will finally be what makes Tom go, oh crap, okay. My partner was right.

I need to look at this. People are noticing and then maybe he comes back to you in a new way. That would also be a good outcome. Very sorry. You're dealing with this. I know firsthand that it's very stressful, it's very draining, but I'm actually really proud of you for getting to this point. I think it speaks to some huge growth on your part that you're saying, yeah, I'm not willing to be the unpaid therapist or punching bag anymore.

Time for everyone to grow up and function better. That's a great sign, man. So I'm actually excited for you to learn how to have this conversation. I'm even excited for Tom because if he can take this in, he's gonna grow a lot too, and it might take your dream team to a whole new level. [00:52:00] Rooting for both of you.

Good luck. You can reach us at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines that makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're doing battle with an imperious mother-in-law, your sibling is stealing from the family coffers to fund their lavish lifestyle, or you're wrestling with Gelt and regret after terminating a healthy pregnancy.

Out of panic, whatever's got you staying up at night lately. Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Now for the recommendation of the week,

Lip Filla Clip: I am addicted to lit filler.

Jordan Harbinger: So I recently got a pair of RayBan meta glasses. I know people are gonna be like, oh my God, not you.

These things are so weak. They're like regular glasses. They look like regular glasses, but they have a three K camera and a voice assistant built into them. You can get them as regular reading glasses, sunglasses, transitions, prescriptions, whatever, all that. They're really good for taking short videos. I never used to like anything like this.

I always thought it was so dumb, so I, I totally get it. If you're like, what? These are the dumbest thing ever. [00:53:00] I found personally that when I'm on a trip, I went to Patagonia and I was like, I don't wanna bring a GoPro. I'll just use my phone occasionally. But then, I don't know, I'm mountain biking or paragliding.

I don't wanna bust my phone out. Then it's literally dangerous. Or you could lose your phone. It's extra gear to bring a GoPro and mounts. It's annoying. It's, yeah, the whole thing is just a mess. Also, when I wanna film my kids. As soon as I get my camera out the phone, whatever, their behavior changes and they stop doing the cute thing they were doing that made me wanna record a video in the first place.

Now I just hit a button on the glasses and I record a clip right then and there. And the video is stabilized, so if you're hiking or biking, it looks fine. The quality is shockingly good for a device that's basically just built into a pair of glasses. And the AI assistant, which I thought I would never use at all, I find myself using it all the time.

I'll ask it a question like, can you do this math problem? Or, what's the temperature? Is it gonna rain? Do I need a jacket? What's 42 divided by 7.5? You know, tip calculation, all kinds of stuff like that. Or I'll be [00:54:00] driving and I'll say, oh shoot, can you remind me in an hour to take my supplements? And it just removes this extra bit of friction having to take out your phone at a red light and do this or write it down in your apps or whatever.

It's a really cool device. I find myself using the glasses all the time. You can get them at any Sunglasses Hut or at meta.com or even on Amazon. We'll link to that in the show notes. Also, y'all, in case y'all didn't know, there's a subreddit for the show, if you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes that's over there on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit, and now for a word from some companies that hopefully don't spy on you.

We'll be right back.

If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment, support our amazing sponsors, all of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website at Jordan harbinger.com/deals.

And if that doesn't work, you can't find something that's not working for you. Email us. I'm jordan@jordanharbinger.com. Somebody here will dig up that code for you. It is that [00:55:00] important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of Feedback Friday.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Before we wrap up here, I just wanted to share a little piece of news with you.

My sister Zara and her husband John, both listeners of the show, they had a baby last week, a boy, their first child, which has just been so exciting.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Uncle Gabe in the house.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Finally. Official the title now. We're both uncles.

Jordan Harbinger: Well,

Gabriel Mizrahi: eh. Well,

Jordan Harbinger: yeah. You're the only true uncle. I'm a self-appointed uncle. And name only

Gabriel Mizrahi: your papa.

I'm uncle.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. That's

Gabriel Mizrahi: how it

Jordan Harbinger: works. You know that that fits. I like that. Although it kind of makes me sound like I banged your sister, but whatever,

Gabriel Mizrahi: not the case,

Jordan Harbinger: I'm here for it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And weirdly, sometimes I'm a hippie grandpa, Gabe, depending on the letter, of course,

Jordan Harbinger: when people are writing in for bead shop and ecstatic dance recommendations.

Yes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: We wear a lot of hats on this show. Well,

Jordan Harbinger: mm-hmm.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I wear a lot of hats on the show. You just make fun of them.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Uncle Bonito over here. So you've been, that's

Gabriel Mizrahi: right. Oh, that's so good.

Jordan Harbinger: You've been sharing your little updates along the way, but not the whole story. It sounded like a pretty intense week.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, it was a little bit, so long story short, my sister had a [00:56:00] very normal textbook pregnancy. Everything was very typical. Baby was healthy, well positioned. The doctors were like. This delivery is gonna be a cakewalk. It was all smooth sailing and then a series of small, strange events happened. I won't bore you with all the details, but in the end, the labor became extremely long and then it got more and more difficult, and then it got more and more complicated and the baby just didn't seem to want to come out and, and then eventually things actually kind of for a moment got a little concerning.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that sucks. That is so stressful.

Gabriel Mizrahi: My sister and uh, brother-in-law told us afterward that the doctor walked into the hospital room at a certain point and said, and I quote, so I'm not wild about your baby.

Jordan Harbinger: What? I'm not wild about your baby. Oh man. That is not what you wanna hear from a doctor. Also, what a weird way to say that.

Like, what does that mean? I'm not crazy about the chances your baby's gonna make it. Just saying, just throwing it out there.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It sounds so personal. Yeah, like she looked at the ultrasound again and was like, ah, this kid doesn't look very cool.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Doctors are so funny sometimes. Like, yeah, you can tell me the scariest possible news while I'm in [00:57:00] the most vulnerable state of my life.

Can you do that in the most cavalier way possible, please. Thank you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway, in the end, they decided to do a C-section, which their whole birth plan was natural birth, doula, all of that. It just went completely sideways and the baby came out a little distressed. It did get kind of scary for a moment there, and for a little while they were actually pretty worried about him, as we all were.

Oh

Jordan Harbinger: my God. Poor Zara. That's every parent's worst nightmare. I know

Gabriel Mizrahi: it wasn't like the worst case scenario, but it was, it was stressful and there was nothing we could do really, but send them good thoughts and trust the doctors were taking good care of him and you know, check in on my family and just make sure they're okay.

Geez.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, that's a tough place to be.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway, the doctors took really great care of my sister and the baby, and it all worked out fine. And they're home now and they're doing great and I'm just so happy about that.

Jordan Harbinger: Amazing. So happy to hear that as well. But man, having kids is intense. Huh?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know how you parents do it, man, I really, I really don't.

The vulnerability in having kids and trusting that they're gonna be okay is just so. Big. I can't even really wrap my head [00:58:00] around it.

Jordan Harbinger: It's really insane when you stop to think about it, which is probably why most of us can't, it's too overwhelming. Yeah, man. So isn't it crazy to meet a baby you're related to?

That's kind of fun, isn't it?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Absolutely wild to use the doctor's word, Uhhuh. Absolutely wild. I am wild about their baby. Everybody told me like, you're gonna fall in love with this kid as soon as you meet 'em. It's so crazy. And I, I totally did. I can't even imagine how much deeper this love is gonna get as he gets older and he starts walking and talking.

We can do stuff together, but even now, this tiny baby. Who's so chill, by the way, and he sleeps most of the time. There's a real bond there that I've never really experienced before, and it's, yeah, it's very touching.

Jordan Harbinger: Being an uncle is really the best. All the fun. None of the responsibility,

Gabriel Mizrahi: truly all the responsibility I can handle.

Yeah, right. I'm a little busy with Feedback Friday, uh, to, uh, parent, anyone else myself. But anyway, I just wanted to share this to say, first of all, that I'm so happy for Zar and John. They're two of my closest friends, in addition to being my family. They're wonderful people and they're part of our show, fa and I know they're gonna be just incredible parents and give this guy an amazing life.

Jordan Harbinger: I second that. He's [00:59:00] gonna be one funny kid. I can tell you that. Gabe's sister, for anybody who doesn't know she's a comedian, she's quite funny and they're just kind of like a zany personality. Truly in a funny, smart way. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hilarious. And her husband is hilarious too. So yeah, this kid's probably gonna be very, very funny.

I also just wanna say. This whole ordeal they went through. It was a really good reminder of just how precarious life can get and how things can turn on a dime without warning or even a clear reason.

Jordan Harbinger: Yep.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Just a real Feedback Friday theme there and just how grateful we have to be when we and the people we love are healthy and safe and life is working well and everybody's happy.

It's not an original take. I know, but very, very clear for me after this whole event.

Jordan Harbinger: 100%. You get comfortable. You get used to things, you take 'em for granted. Just how our brains work.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, your segment a couple weeks ago about your mom was a really beautiful reminder of this too. So yeah, I guess we're getting this message at opposite ends of the lifespan, I suppose, which is how we learn about it, I guess.

Jordan Harbinger: For sure. Babies, grandparents, they both show us how to live, eh?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. And I'm very proud of my sister and my [01:00:00] brother-in-law for how they rolled with the punches and all this. They were such champions, dude. They did exactly that thing we talk about so often, which is just, you know, sometimes you gotta surrender.

To what is happening, but they also still acted when they had to. They advocated for what they needed. They influenced the situation however they could at the hospital. But you know, in a situation where the stakes just don't really get much higher, it's your life, it's your baby's life. It was honestly very inspiring to watch them just know when to trust the process and have faith in their baby and in the doctors and just breathe until they're out of the woods.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Not easy, well done.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I hope if I'm ever in that situation, I will handle it in a similar way. Also, people have been congratulating me, which is really sweet, but obviously I did nothing. Yeah, no. Uh, in this situation it's really Czar and John and the baby too, who deserve the congrats. But I look at them and I see a couple who thought very deeply about whether to have a child, why to have a child, what kind of home, what kind of upbringing and experiences they wanted to create.

And, um, I guess I'm just really struck by the [01:01:00] courage it takes to have a child. You know, not just the courage to be responsible for another life and work hard and raise them well, and all of that, but also the courage to confront precisely this uncertainty we're talking about, you know, to recognize that there are just so many forces and possibilities that are way beyond our control to have the courage to work with that.

'cause this fear and this anxiety and this pain that we encounter in life is just, you know, we talk about this on the show all the time. It's part of the deal. They exist alongside the joy and the fulfillment, and we just kind of have to welcome all of it. If we wanna really live full lives, which just seems like one of the most intense things in the world,

Jordan Harbinger: I can tell you that if I'd really thought about that too much, I might not have had the kids at all.

It's bananas.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I get that. Yeah. I don't know if this is gonna be my path in life. I don't know if I could do it, but I am in awe of parents who do. I really am. So anyway, I really wish Z and John didn't have to go through what they went through, but what a formative experience to kick off with. For them certainly.

But even for the rest of our family, and now that they're home and everybody's healthy and happy, I think the whole [01:02:00] experience has just made us even more grateful for this child. And it makes me even more appreciative of this new role I'm stepping into. It really is a miracle childbirth, but the whole enterprise, it's just so crazy.

I'm very moved by it. But, uh, mostly I just wanna say congrats to Zara and John and I love you guys. I love your baby, and thank you for letting me be part of this really amazing journey.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, hippie grandpa, diaper changer, I think you're gonna enjoy being an uncle.

Gabriel Mizrahi: New nickname just dropped. I think so too.

I can already see him bringing out a new part of me, which is very cool. I mean, dude, what is it like when you're a dad and you have a child and then you're like, oh, there's a whole new. Territory now. Right? New role, new parts of you. It's just, I'm very curious to see how this unfolds, how we grow together.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's

Gabriel Mizrahi: pretty cool.

Jordan Harbinger: Cut to you on a moped in Cusco with a baby strapped your back on the way to an uncle and me yoga workshop.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Well, that'd be so cool if that existed. Yeah. I mean, he should be so lucky, but I don't think they're gonna let me strap him to a moped.

Jordan Harbinger: I hope you do travel together. You can be like that crazy weird uncle who takes him on crazy adventures.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Literally the dream. [01:03:00] I'm just gonna give him a bunch of airline points for his first birthday. You know, get him started early.

Jordan Harbinger: I remember we went to China a long T this is like f. 15 years ago almost. Mm-hmm. And it was probably the first time you and I went to China 'cause we were growing to North Korea and you're like, I have all these miles and points.

I'm gonna use them for a hotel in the La Meridian in Shanghai. Oh yeah. And I was like, oh, I wanna see, I wanna see Shanghai. So I went there for like a day and the first thing we saw was a street fight.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah. We saw those two guys just absolutely beat the shit outta each other outside the hotel that was so dark

Jordan Harbinger: outside of a luxury hotel in Shanghai.

Were two shirtless guys.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I know this is so dark and weird to talk about right now, but I think that's the most intense physical violence I've ever seen in real life.

Jordan Harbinger: It's pretty rare to see an actual street fight unless you live in a really rough area.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: And this was China where like they don't kind of tolerate lots of overt street crime like that.

And I remember the crowd gathered around and they were just like. Oh, these two guys are really going after it. And they were bleeding and like

Yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: they were bleeding from their, [01:04:00] both of them like nose, eyes, cuts on their face. And we were standing there like, is this happening?

Jordan Harbinger: I was like, I kind of wanna see more of this, which I would not do in the United States.

'cause I'd be like, they, someone's gonna bust out a gun and start shooting and we're right here. Yes. But in China, I was like, Nope. I wanna get a high vantage point so I can see who's gonna win this one.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Free MMA. Do I have my RayBan meta glasses?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. You were a little nervous, but I was like, okay, that's probably a healthy self.

Preserving reaction to not like, let get closer so we can see better. But this should be all right.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Strange tangent in the middle of my big life announcement, but

Jordan Harbinger: Sure. Yeah. Anyway, um, that has nothing. That's speaking of airline miles, that's all. So Amen to all that. Gabe, I've known Zara for a long time now.

Probably since she was, what, like nine, a teenager?

Gabriel Mizrahi: 19.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, maybe 20. So it's, it's kind of insane to be like, oh, you're a mother now. I know. Super pumped for Zy. One of the best things I've ever done being a father that a parent, you're gonna love it. Also, if Gabe ever retires or joins a monastery in Japan where he has to take a vow of silence, I'm gonna need a new co-host.

So your baby is on deck. Let's get this kid on the mic early.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I will start teaching him [01:05:00] how to do the sign-offs once he's, uh, potty trained. How about that?

Jordan Harbinger: Sure. Even sooner if you can. I don't really want to take any chances. Go back and check out Danny Wrench on our Skeptical Sunday on test prep books and courses.

If you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like, and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our Six Minute Networking course. It is free. It's not gross, it's not schmoozy.

Find it on the Thinkific platform at Sixminutenetworking.com. Dig that well Before you get thirsty, folks show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Dr. Margolis input is general psychological [01:06:00] information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent nor indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

One day, the encryption protecting your bank account, medical records, and private messages will simply stop working, not because of a hack, but because computers get smart enough to break it instantly.

The scary part that day is already being planned for and your data may already be saved for later.

JHS Trailer: Quantum computers actually are a real step in evolution in the way that everybody knows about a binary state, zeros and ones on and off. Well, that was and is the technology for the classic computers.

Today. We've improved technologically much faster than we have been able to, as [01:07:00] a society come up with ways to prevent the harm. Quantum computers can lead to what's called Q Day, or I prefer to call it digital disaster day D-Day two, because that's the day when all the digital secrets that the normal computers can't crack through encryption are gonna be cracked by quantum computers.

And that is really what gets people's attention. Combine that with AI and boy, we've really got a one two punch that can make humanity take these giant technological leaps that we had no idea could possibly happen. And that's one of the big fears is ai. That a lot of people are worried about now.

Quantum's coming around the corner, it makes it even twice as scary. It's a huge mixed bag of possibilities for everybody that are great and also danger, you know, terminator level existential problems. All the doomsday preppers actually are onto something. If this does happen in the next few years, we're really gonna be in big trouble.

That's why I am sort of an evangelist [01:08:00] out there trying to speak on it and let people know this is a major problem. We can't just stick our head in the sand.

Jordan Harbinger: To hear from Quantum expert John Young on what Q Day is, why it matters now, and what happens when our digital security hits its expiration date, check out episode 1261 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.

Quick break, and if you like this show, there's another podcast you should check out. If you wanna stay informed about what's happening around the world without drowning in noise, check out Feedback Friday. It's built for people who want the big stories fast and clear.

Think 20 minutes in the morning, then a quick 10 minute update in the afternoon. Just focused coverage of the developments shaping the world right now from the Middle East and Venezuela to China, Russia, and beyond, with an emphasis on what actually has real world consequences for the United States. The show's hosted by Mike Baker, a veteran of the CIA with decades of firsthand experience.

So you're getting smart analysis from somebody who's been inside the system. You get straightforward context to help you understand what's happening and why it matters. Follow Feedback Friday wherever you get your podcasts and stay ahead of the [01:09:00] curve.