1210: Can Justice Be Done When Broke and on the Run? | Feedback Friday

1210: Can Justice Be Done When Broke and on the Run? | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here the Feedback Friday producer, the apothecary helping me concoct these mysterious potions of life wisdom, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I love that word, apothecary. Yeah. Such a good

Jordan Harbinger: word. First of all, it sounds so like medieval. Yes. It gives me Shakespeare vibes and it's, you know,

Gabriel Mizrahi: what they call pharmacies here in Germany, right?

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, that's right. Aika. That's probably a really old word, Aika. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: How funny is that? Every time I pass one, I'm like, what tinctures and tices are you guys cooking up in here? But really it's just the CVS of Germany. Yes. It sounds so much cooler.

Jordan Harbinger: Imagine, I mean, in the States, if you're like, I'm, I'm running to the apothecary, bro, need anything Band-aids, Gatorade.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Something to poison yourself if you cannot be with your one true love. Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Give me, uh, two Elizabethan tinctures and some icy hot and, uh oh, a bunion wrap, please. What is that? Wow, you really are, if anybody had any doubts that you were really in Europe. There it is. You heard that The [00:01:00] siren outside the World War II era siren.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's the soundtrack I've I sleep to every night. Yeah. I don't know why, but especially on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. The sirens all night long in my neighborhood and I wonder what they're dealing with. Like I live in like a, not a bad neighborhood, but it's a little mixed company in the midst of gentrifying, I would say.

Yeah. Mixed company. Yeah. So. Are they just driving to overdoses and bar fights? I don't know what's happening.

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, maybe, yeah. Overdoses. Probably Primary injuries. People slip. Maybe they're responding

Gabriel Mizrahi: to like various loftin injuries. Are you familiar

Jordan Harbinger: Loftin? I mean, it means like winds are breezy or airs maybe.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's basically the practice of leaving your windows open so that you get a nice draft in the apartment or in the house.

Jordan Harbinger: That's gotta be like a West German thing, you think? I don't feel like we had that in East Germany. Yeah. But then again, I lived in a house, I didn't live in an apartment. So did

Gabriel Mizrahi: you guys not have windows in East Germany?

Jordan Harbinger: Well, you're trying to keep out the, uh, lead acetate from the chemical factory, uh, adjacent to the neighborhood. No. Um, of [00:02:00] course. I don't remember it being specifically a thing. You know what though? Actually, now that you mention it, my host mother, she did open the window like, you know how they have those slanty windows that open at the top?

Yes. She would do that in the morning and it's a good idea. 'cause you know you got a teenager sleeping in a bedroom. That bedroom stinks in the morning

Gabriel Mizrahi: period. It seems like a good policy wherever you live. But the Germans have really elevated Luft into like a. Life philosophy. And actually one of my friends was telling me that the landlords write it into the rental agreements.

Like they require the tenants to open the windows. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Probably keeps the mold at bay. If you've got fresh air, it's a mold

Gabriel Mizrahi: thing. Okay. That's exactly it.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. No one cares. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most. Why do we always

Gabriel Mizrahi: get onto windows at the top of the show?

Jordan Harbinger: It's not me. I'm not, it's not, it's not really me doing it. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna throw that out there. We decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better [00:03:00] informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, astronauts, investigative journalists, Russian spies, cold case homicide investigators. This week we had Dr. Mike Israetel back on the show. PhD in Exercise science. Super popular YouTuber. This time we talked about roid rage, GLP one, drugs associated health and fitness.

Topics like what AI and future drugs are gonna do. Two and four. Our bodies, he's irreverent. A little bit controversial as usual. We had a lot of fun. On Fridays though, we show stories, take listener letters, offer advice and indulge. Weird aside about Germany specific rental agreements. Apparently Gabe, you seem totally exhausted, but on the other hand, weirdly glowing, rejuvenated in some way.

Jase Sanderson: Hello there. It's producer Jason here. Just a quick note, if you'd like to skip to this week's first question and miss out Jordan and Gabe's story here, you can do so by skipping to 23 minutes and 20 seconds now. Enjoy the show. [00:04:00]

Gabriel Mizrahi: I am. So tired, my dude. Yeah. Well I'm so depleted. It's not even funny. But I had the best couple of weeks I've had in a very long time.

Jordan Harbinger: Did you get some new cashew butter based face cream from the Apple Teca or is this just a, is the road trip through Central Europe? What did it to you?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Definitely the road trip. One of the best things I've ever done.

Jordan Harbinger: I texted you 'cause I was like, I wanna be in a car pulling into Prague right now. As I was like in the dental chair getting a cleaning.

Although that I know you would rather, you would've wanted to switch places with me

Gabriel Mizrahi: actually. Oh my God. Which one would I rather do? Yeah, what a conundrum.

Jordan Harbinger: Like I'm, you're pulling into Prague to get a croissant and some coffee and I'm like, I wish I was there. And I'm like, I have somebody scraping plaque off of my incisors and you're like, ah, gels

Gabriel Mizrahi: cut to me at a palace in Prague, Googling a local dentist.

That is your happy place. All of my favorite things. That's right.

Jordan Harbinger: For those who don't know, is it fair to say one of your favorite things is getting your teeth cleaned? Is that fair?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. I look forward to it. In fact, I just rescheduled my [00:05:00] appointment for when I'm coming back to the States for three weeks.

So I can do it while I'm in LA if I haven't been able to do it here. Oh my gosh. But, uh,

Jordan Harbinger: anyway,

Gabriel Mizrahi: yes, you texted me with your FOMO and I understood it. Yes. It was so cool, man. I just rented a car and I did it. It was just so spontaneous and I just came together in the best way and I just, I didn't even plan anything.

I just put one foot in front of the other, no fixed plan. Looked at the map in the morning. Every morning I would book the hotel for that night. Or the Airbnb for that night. And I just knew I wanted to end up in Munich. But aside from that, I was kind of open to whatever came up along the way. So it was amazing.

First stop was Leipzig saw the, uh, epic Battle of the Nations monument there. I dunno if you've ever seen that.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So I actually, when I was an exchange student, I went to high school in Haah, which is like adjacent to nearby. So they call it Hala Leipzig. It's like a, it's a kind of like, oh, it's one of those things that was, is two cities, but they're so close together and that, that they're starting to bleed into each other almost.

It's like a metro area.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I was thinking about you 'cause I saw it on all the street signs and I was wondering how close it was.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Now I understand the East Germany thing that you've been [00:06:00] talking about for so long. Yes. Even though integration has happened slash has been happening for decades, it really does feel like a another universe.

It's so different.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Look, it's been 35 years or something since reunification, which is, imagine a person who is born that is now 35, has their own kids. But when I was there, it was the nineties and it was kind of like for somebody who was, let's say 40. It was kind of like, yeah, a few years ago, this was a communist country that had secret police so that you would get shot if you tried to leave illegally.

Wild. So like all my teachers and stuff were kind of like, I guess we're like a free country now. Like, it was almost like they didn't even almost believe it. Really. And I, I remember talking with pe, this is a whole show, but I remember talking with my, my host father and being like. So did you ever look at your Stai file, like your secret police file and he is like, nah, can you access this?

You can. But they have counselors upstairs in the same building because you'd go in and you'd be like, I wanna see my Stasi file. And you'd find out that like your wife was spying on you. Oh wow. [00:07:00] And you'd be like, oh, I need to like emotionally deal with this right now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Damn. So some people just didn't even wanna look at the file.

Jordan Harbinger: No. Because imagine like you had a hunch that your kids were spying on you and you have a good relationship with them now and you're like, do I wanna like know that my kids were rolling over on me? Uh, or my wife or my best friend was And the reason he did it was because they had some dirt on him and he was screwing my wife.

Like, you don't wanna stir the pot because now you're like, that regime is over and nobody's gonna get shot for being a collaborator. Let's let sleeping dogs lie. A lot of people had that mentality. Wow. We have German listeners. I would love to hear their perspective in my email about this actually. I find it endlessly fascinating.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Driving through. Obviously I couldn't feel that kind of stuff, but you definitely feel the influence of that East German planning, like the cities are not designed for cars and driving in Leipzig was a nightmare. It was so stressful.

Jordan Harbinger: Leipzig is in an old city, which I don't know, was it completely flattened during World War ii?

Probably. So the Soviets were just like, Hey, let's [00:08:00] build this. There's only gonna be a hundred cars in the whole city for officials, so we don't really need like major roads or anything.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That was my sense. Yeah. It was really designed for bicycles. Everyone's biking, but when you're driving, you're like sandwiched in between cars and then also driving alongside the tram and having to figure out when to drive.

Oh, and when to cross the track so you don't get hit by a tra. Right. It was very intense. Oh, this just reminded me, I had such a funny conversation in, uh, Weimar. Have you ever been to this town called Weimar?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I mean it was, it is like an old capital, I believe, of Germany. Really old,

Gabriel Mizrahi: wasn't it? It's in between Leipzig and Nuremberg.

Yeah. And as far as I know, it was, it's only famous for being the home of Gata for a time and also being the birthplace of the Constitution for the Weimar Republic, which I happen to love.

Jordan Harbinger: I take it back. Weimar, by the way, was not the capital of Germany. It's the temporary meeting place for the National Assembly after World War I.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, that makes more sense.

Jordan Harbinger: Since there was a civil war in unrest, they didn't convene in Berlin. It was too unstable.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, interesting. Yeah, didn't know that. So I pulled into Weimar because there was [00:09:00] a little pit stop on the way to Nuremberg and, and I had the car, and as you know, it's kind of a nightmare to park in a lot of these cities.

And yeah, so I pull into this real vampirey town. I mean beautiful, but just, you know, there might be vampires in this town and it's all cobblestone and there's a beautiful church and cute little shops. Like the main part of town is maybe two or three blocks, and I find the one parking spot in this town.

I got really excited. Key, I don't know, man, you

Jordan Harbinger: in parking spots in other cities. Never really a good idea.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That was on my mind while I parked. And I'm glad you brought that up because I was like, is this gonna happen? Okay, I've gotta read the signs very carefully. I took a picture of all the signs when I parked and put them into chat GPT to make sure that I was understanding them correctly, because I didn't need a repeat of what happened in Portugal.

So I pull into this spot and I had to pee so badly. Like I was like, I can't wait to run into the nearest restaurant and just use the bathroom. So I park. But I'm like, well, I don't know if the parking is okay and I can't find the parking sign on this block. So just at that moment, a [00:10:00] woman and her daughter were passing by walking their bicycles down the sidewalk.

And I asked them, sorry, excuse me, do you speak English? Yes, of course. And I was like, oh, cool. Do you, is it okay to park here? And they looked at me very somberly like, no, no. And I was like, oh, okay. And they're like, this is for, I'm not gonna attempt to do the dialect, so as to not alienate our European fans.

Mm-hmm. But they were like, no, this is for residents only. And I was like, cool. And I start nodding, like doing the math in my head, like, am I really gonna keep driving around looking for a spot or am I gonna risk it? 'cause I have to pee so badly. And then I was like, okay, how would I have known that because I can't find the sign.

And they're like, well, there's a sign at the other end of the blo, whatever they explained. And I'm like, and then without my asking, the mother goes, okay, here's what you have to do. She starts giving me directions, like the most detailed, go 400 meters this way. Make your first right, make your first left, go another 200 meters, you're gonna find a park, make a left.

And when you get to the, and she turns to her daughter and goes, [00:11:00] Schloss, how do you say Schloss? And she goes, castle. And she's like, yeah, yeah. At the castle. Make a left. And I just start, I like had to fight down laughter because I was like, these are the most European directions I have ever had. You would never have that conversation in the States.

If someone were giving you directions, they'd be like, go down a couple blocks that way. Make a right at the Burger King. When you get to the guy doing fentanyl under the bridge, he's always there. Could make a left. Those are our landmarks. It was just, and the daughter looked at me. Yeah. And she could see that I was about to laugh and then she started almost laughing and we were both trying not to laugh while her mom is still going on about the directions and finally she ends and she's like, and then there will be free parking.

I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that. To be

Jordan Harbinger: fair to mom, a hundred meters is not really a hundred meters. That just means one block. Yeah. It's not that bad for people who are like a hundred meters. Oh my God, that's 300 feet. Shoot. How long is that? It doesn't matter. It's just the block. Those are fair directions, but you're right, Germans can give very precise directions for their own neighborhood.

Like they will be like, I remember my host [00:12:00] father would be like, avoid the pothole where the drain sticks up by turning right. I'm like, people know that dad, you know, like they're not gonna just like bottom out the car on the cobblestone street because they don't know to turn around the drain.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I just like these hyper, hyper-specific landmarks Yes.

That people are choosing. But yeah, at the end of it I was like, thank you for the most German directions I've ever received. Yes. In my entire life. And they both started laughing, just went on their way. And I did not move the car. I left it there, ran into the cafe. Of course the woman who owned the cafe got kind of mad at me.

And then I ordered a coffee of course. Just to make it Okay.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And then I ran back to my car and everyone was looking at me like, did you really leave the car? We heard the whole conversation with the mom.

Jordan Harbinger: That's another thing that's changed about East Germany though dude is if you had said, I ran into Americans once or twice during my year there.

I remember they were like, oh my God, no one speaks English. And I was like, oh yeah, that's the big lie. Everyone in Germany speaks English. No, no, no, darling. Everyone in West Germany spoke English in the nineties. Everyone in East Germany spoke German. Maybe Russian if they were like a good student, but that's it.

Their Russian [00:13:00] was like our Spanish, where you're like, Albano. Like that was it. And they didn't like Russians 'cause they were occupiers. So it was like, yeah, we speak Russian. 'cause they make us learn it in school. But we secretly hated a lot of us. And so the fact that quote unquote, everyone would speak English, that they would say, of course we speak English.

That never happened to me one single time when I was in East Germany. Wow. Never.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That makes sense. Most people spoke at least some English. Sure, of course. But much less than in Berlin. Of course. Anyway, after that I went to Nuremberg, which was stunning and I don't have enough time to talk about it, but my God.

Cool Nazi stuff there.

Jordan Harbinger: I know. That's a controversial take.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, I mean, that's why I went. I wanted to go to the courthouse where they did the trials and I wanted to go to the, um, what do they call it? The rally grounds where they had all the meetings and stuff.

Jordan Harbinger: I should say anti-Nazi stuff, not cool Nazi stuff.

Cool. Nazi related stuff to me. Correct.

Gabriel Mizrahi: A hundred percent clear folks. Yeah. I'm glad you set the record straight just in case anyone on the listening is wondering if we're secret Nazis. Jordan thinks Nazis are cool. I knew it was more than just a haircut. [00:14:00] You did that to yourself, bro. Technically, my barber did it, but yeah, I paid for it and then I went to Munich.

Dude, I have to tell you something. All these years of you meeting up with listeners in other cities, I now know coolest thing ever. It is the coolest thing ever. So we have a lot of amazing listeners in a lot of cities who have been writing me and inviting me to come visit, and I'm so grateful for all of these invitations.

We have two particularly awesome listeners in Munich, Arsen, and Deanna, and these two listen to feedback Friday together, which I always love. I love hearing when couples listen to the show together and then debate how we responded to a letter or like get in fights about who's right, about the best way to handle something.

I just love that. They listened to the show and they very generously invited me to come visit in Munich and they had an extra room and they said, if you're down to stay, I'm down. And so it's a little bit of like an out there invitation and I wasn't sure, but I chatted with Arsen and we got along really well and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this, let's do this.

And I was like, maybe I'll stay for a night, maybe two. I went there. We ended up having the [00:15:00] greatest time dude, so I went down there and accepted their very kind invitation and we ended up having a great, the threesome.

Jordan Harbinger: Sorry, I, I can't, I'm gonna get my mind out of the gutters. We had

Gabriel Mizrahi: a great threesome.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: they're cla It was a couple classic FRI feedback Friday menage. Um,

Jordan Harbinger: just, sorry. These are perfectly nice people. I'm just slandering them.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Um, king shaming, honestly it was like that, but like an emotional men, whatever that's called that's safer. Is' that just a really good hang? Yeah, yeah. No, we just had a great time.

They were amazing hosts and. It took me around Munich a little bit more like just let me tag along with them. Especially our setting. We just walked around and had a great time. He showed me some cool stuff. We worked together. I had to prep the show. He had to do some work. Hung out, made dinner. Ended up on my last night just watching like three or four episodes of couples therapy, which was Oh, with funny, the most feedback Friday thing we got done.

Yeah, right on theme. It was really one of the highlights of my time in Europe. It was just amazing. I'm very [00:16:00] grateful. Thank you Arsen and Deanna for the invitation and for the amazing time in Munich. I really can't thank you guys enough, but dude, is this what you have been experiencing all these years?

Yeah, like this instant family that you feel with everyone you meet. It's just the connection is so,

Jordan Harbinger: it's phenomenal. I mean, I love, look, I love it. I, I don't always do extended hangs 'cause sometimes I just see people at cafes and they like get their email and then have to go run, but like, sure. I don't know.

The other weekend, Jen and I went out to dinner. It's, it's just like reservation in advance, a month in advance place that we go to. They changed the menu every month. It's like a really small. Two seating per night restaurant. And I always eat at the counter with a chef's cook with Jen, and there's only two other seats there.

So there was another couple. And this guy was like really outgoing and like borderline loud, but I was like, oh, he's so, he's got so much Riz, I'm here for it. Right. It's like he's really enjoying himself and the chefs are talking with him. He

Gabriel Mizrahi: realized that this story sounds like it's also heading in the direction of a threesome, but it does.

It does. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: And so it sure does. And then I'm just sitting there minding my own business, letting this guy sort of like run the show and he goes, Jordan [00:17:00] Harbinger. And I was like, how did you recognize me? And he goes, I'm only looking at the side of your face. It's perfect. And I was like, oh, that's really funny.

He's like, yeah, you just, I just saw this show art, uh, behind this Asian Lady Ex man. And it turned out to be a show fan. Which actually makes a lot of sense. And he was an adventure traveler. Like he just got back from Antarctica and Taiwan. Wow. Which is crazy cool. And so we ended up talking the whole time and the restaurant staff was like, you two know each other.

'cause there's not that many regulars who always sit at the counter and you guys just happen to know each other. And I was like, he listens to my show. And they're like, you have a show, right? Because like, who the hell? What are you talking about? So, yeah, no, I love it. I love doing that. And it's always so random.

Look, that was in my community, but it's more random when you're in Taiwan or when you're in another country and someone's like, are you that guy? From that thing? It's like, yeah, this is pretty cool. Because it often happens when I'm alone too. And it's like, you know, you're kind of homesick and you don't know anyone.

And someone's like, are you Jordan Harbinger? And you're like, this is really cool. It's like someone delivering a slice of home or friendship to you when you're just sitting at an airport lounge and it's like, [00:18:00] this is the most welcome thing ever. So yes, I know sometimes people hesitate to say hi 'cause they're like, oh he's probably busy.

This happens all the time. Please, even if I'm wearing my headphones, tell me that you know about the show. 'cause it always makes my day and I know, I see people hesitate for like three hours at an airport lounge and I'm like, why? Why'd you take so long? Oh, you were listening to something or you were on a call?

I don't care.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan is thirsty for throuple today. Thirsty for

Jordan Harbinger: validation. What happened after Munich? I know you headed down to, uh, was it Vienna?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Vienna, yeah, that's right. Where I met up with two other listeners, Minna and Lena, who were both amazing. Also Minna took me to lunch and then this amazing Japanese matcha place, which is so funny.

She planned this based on what she knows about me from the show. Wow. It's like this man needs matcha. Um, she took me to this like very authentic, intense Japanese matcha place where I was, I stayed up until four in the morning. The matcha was so strong. It was so intense. We explored city center a bit and then Lena took me on this insane walking tour of Vienna, like I've never done a tour like this.

She was so cool about it [00:19:00] too, like she didn't let on that she had done her homework, but she did so much good homework. I think one of her many careers in a past life. She's an artist, very talented artist, but she worked as a tour guide at one point, I think in Peru. So she was very good and she took me through like incredible architecture and through these Nazi Germany towers that they've since integrated into these like stunning parks in Vienna.

We went to the Sigmund Freud Museum, which was the one that was my contribution. It was the only thing I really knew I wanted to do in Vienna. Had to go visit the og. Of course, we grabbed dinner and then we went to an amusement park where they had some of the weirdest rides I have ever seen. We didn't ride any of the rides, but we just walked around to look at the artwork because they have these statues that were incredible.

That was another highlight of Vienna.

Jordan Harbinger: Did you wear your pink fried shirt? Pink Fre. Dark side of your mom?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dark side of your mom? No, I didn't pack that. I didn't pack that one. I should have, how funny would everybody roll up to the museum with that t-shirt? Damn. I really wish I'd packed

Jordan Harbinger: that now. Yeah. Too late now.

Vienna is stunning. It's got like a small. Small town vibe, but it's, yes, it's a capital city. It's very [00:20:00] odd.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Very show juxta. So Peacey. It is,

Jordan Harbinger: yes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Too beautiful though, man. If wedding cake were a city, it would be Vienna.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That whole city does look like frosting in the winter.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I was like, how can you have so many stunning things here and then people just live here.

Like you just, I see people jogging past the palaces, like in this open air museum. Blows my mind.

Jordan Harbinger: You need psychotic kings and dictators to get that kind of architecture.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: You just don't produce that kind of stuff into a democracy. You and especially a new one. No,

Gabriel Mizrahi: you do not. Just freeway interchanges and CV s and free elections.

Ika chains.

Jordan Harbinger: Yep. Free election. That's

Gabriel Mizrahi: right.

Jordan Harbinger: Uh, toss up. Which one's more useful? No, it would be nice if we had some freaking palaces in this country, but be careful what you wish for because they might be the, the White House doesn't hold a candle to some of the stuff you see in Europe, but it's not too late.

He's got three more years to build himself a palace.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's true. And every president does do a bit of decorating, but the White House will always look like the guest house.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. The

Gabriel Mizrahi: guest house of the, uh, third, uh, gardener in line. Right for the throne. No kidding. Exactly. Some of these places,

Jordan Harbinger: that's where they make the family live with the [00:21:00] people they don't like.

Like, oh, you get the lame palace.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Man. There's so much. I'm not telling you like so many other good things. Like we saw marionette theater, these tiny puppets done by one of the oldest marionette troops in the world. Like stunning. So cool. It was one of the dopest things I've ever done. Just a million things like that.

Then I drove to Prague because I needed a halfway point between Vienna and Berlin. It's like an eight hour drive. So I stopped in Prague for one night and then I did one day there and it was Have you been to Prague?

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I went to Prague recently actually.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, okay. Yeah. Amazing. Central Europe. Very spooky.

Talk about vampire vibes, like, but beautiful place and uh, yeah, I'm definitely gonna go back 'cause I need some more time there.

Jordan Harbinger: I like Prague. I don't know what it is about that place, but I feel a little bit like, uh, a hot chick when I go to Prague. It's, I get a ton of attention from women there. I don't know why.

Okay. I must have a look that's looks good in the Czech

Gabriel Mizrahi: Republic. I mean, you do famously do well in Central Europe.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. It's one of those things, like, I remember I went with my parents several years ago to Prague on a tour, and [00:22:00] I'd be on a bus with my parents and they'd go, my mom would go, so did you notice that the, the women were just staring at you?

And I was like, yeah, what was that? She's like, I don't know.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And it's not the haircut,

Jordan Harbinger: it's not the Fasci. That's a recent edition. And I, I was like, yeah, the, there were just three women that were not with each other just staring at me on the bus, like just the whole ride. And. I remember that happening on multiple occasions.

I'd walk down the street and like teenage girls would yell something at me and check and I would not understand and I'd be like, what? And they'd come up and talk to me and be like, oh my God, you're a foreigner. And then like they would just talk to me and it was just so odd. And so, yeah, I don't know who doesn't like that.

It might be, maybe it gets old if you live there, but it's great to know that, uh, as you said before, pop has still got it. That's kind of nice. Uh, with the girls my own age, uh, typically a little bit more rewarding and way less creepy. I'm gonna stop talking now.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Get the to Anika my friend.

Jordan Harbinger: Get the, get the two an app.

Yes. Anyway, dude, so epic. The people are everything. Our show family is very special. Every time I meet up with [00:23:00] somebody who listens to the podcast, I just think we have the best audience ever. I always have a blast.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, the feedback Friday bond runs very deep, much deeper, even than I knew. I just feel like we're all very connected and I'm, I'm so grateful to be a part

Jordan Harbinger: of it.

Once you hop on the dues cruise, you're family for life. That's all. The drama just brings us closer together. I love that you're now a traveling brand ambassador for feedback Friday on the show, again, a little envious. Not gonna lie on a little worried that our, our European listeners are gonna be horribly disappointed when they eventually meet me.

It's all downhill from here, folks. All right, Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a licensed registered nurse who took off several years to stay home to raise my two children. Three years ago, I was hired by my child's school as a teacher's assistant and quickly gained a lot of close work relationships and rapport with the students.

I wanted to work a job that kept me close to my kids as we have no family nearby, and my husband works crazy hours in public safety, making me the primary parent. So when a health clerk position opened, I was highly encouraged to interview for it due to my [00:24:00] background in nursing. It was a natural fit and I learned the job within just a few weeks.

My job is full-time and very intense. I serve a population of 800 students and staff alone. I'm the point of contact for all emergencies and I see upwards of 50 students in my office daily where I treat injuries and illnesses, contact parents, document office visits, keep records for all immunizations and so much more, but I make $19,000 a year with zero benefits.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. That's insane. For that amount of work. That is absolutely nuts.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm surprised to hear that. Yeah. After two months, my boss, the nurse manager, told me that my talents as an RN are entirely wasted in this role and said they had an open third nurse manager position they would hold for me. The promotion would land me $75,000 a year and full benefits.

Jordan Harbinger: Great. Wow. Finally getting paid what you're worth.

Gabriel Mizrahi: The only problem, I don't have my bachelor's. When I mentioned this, my boss told me that my name was already on the position and pestered me [00:25:00] for months to start online school. I finally did, and now I'm eight months into a 12 month BSN program. Then yesterday I learned that they went ahead and hired another nurse outside of the district to fill the role that they had promised me.

I was blindsided. Had they not goaded me, I wouldn't have gone back to school for a grueling program without having something lined up on the other side of graduation. So now here I sit going through a costly and time consuming program that I thought would be for a promotion, and all I got was disappointment and a flippant, sorry, from my boss.

I know nothing is guaranteed, but I can't help but feel let down and unsure where to go from here. My motivation to continue in my current role is diminished. I don't want to have a knee jerk reaction because my feelings are hurt, but I also know that I'm worth much more. Where do I go from here? Signed trying to hatch a play.

After my dream was snatched away,

Jordan Harbinger: first of all, I'm really sorry. Things went this way. Your boss got your hopes up. You put in a ton of work to satisfy the [00:26:00] requirements for this role. The stakes were super high between the money and the benefits and the reward for all of this hard work and the pressure on you to provide and be the primary parent.

Man, you had pretty good reason to be excited, and it really, yeah, it sucks that this didn't go your way. It sucks. I mean, you were gonna make like four times the money and the fact that your boss wasn't more apologetic, that they didn't break this news more kindly help you understand maybe why they made the decision.

Maybe help find other opportunities for you. It just kind of makes everything worse. So where do you go from here? Well, I think you need to go through the phase that you're in now, where you're angry and you're sad and you're stunned and you're hurt, and you kind of feel like the wind's gone outta your sails.

You're mourning this job and everything that would've come with it. Of course, you were looking at the vacations. You were gonna take the debt, you were gonna pay off the car, you were gonna buy all that stuff. The next phase is really gonna be about coming to terms with this. Easing into a new reality where you're two thirds of the way through this degree, you're not getting your job.

Maybe you don't have a game plan yet, but you've settled into this timeline and it doesn't [00:27:00] hurt as much, and that might take a few weeks or a month or more, I don't know. But it'll kind of happen on its own. But once you get to that point of acceptance and maybe you're already getting there, that's where things get interesting because that's when you can start to look around and go, what do I wanna do?

What's my new goal? Do I wanna apply for the same job in another school district? Do I wanna apply for a different role? Are there any new opportunities popping up? Maybe ones that are even better than this position I thought was mine. Do I wanna pivot to a new field only? You can answer those questions and it might take some time, but what I want you to make room for.

Is the idea that not getting what you want, it sucks. It's devastating and it's unfair and it's also going to open up new opportunities for you because that's how life works always. I know this firsthand. Also, you can make life work that way more and more in the way that you process and respond to these setbacks.

The more you allow yourself to grieve and accept, the more you open yourself up to an unexpected timeline, the [00:28:00] more quickly you get to the part where you go, man, that really sucked. But it's also so funny 'cause then this happened and I then I met that person and then I had time to pursue that opportunity and do.dot.

You end up somewhere way better and with more appreciation too. I just wanna be clear. I'm not telling you how to feel. I'm not saying you're wrong for being upset. Kind of the opposite. Actually being upset is just part of this process. What I'm saying. When you're ready, you zoom out and I think you'll be amazed at what you find.

But you know, Gabe, I wanna point out something that might be important for her to see. Her boss promised her this great role. It's a huge pay raise, a much better position. She had lots of good reasons to take it. This is just stuck in my craw though. She said she took months to start the program, the college, the bachelor's thing, and that it was only after her boss pestered her to do it.

Ah, good point. Yeah, because if I'm in her shoes, I'm signing up for online school that evening when I get home from work.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Why did she drag her feet on that?

Jordan Harbinger: I don't get it. So part of me is going, did your boss get [00:29:00] frustrated with the timeline and then choose someone else? 'cause you're a dragging ass.

Did they think you didn't want the role very much and they just found somebody who did? Did they not have a lot of loyalty to you because they didn't see your commitments? I don't know.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I don't know. That might explain her boss' flipping, sorry, with no explanation.

Jordan Harbinger: Maybe the guys an a-hole, but maybe he's like, okay, I had to beg you to do the prereq just to get the job.

The rest of that sentence might have been, instead of just, sorry, it might have been, sorry you weren't motivated enough to grab this opportunity that I stuck my neck out to get it and then hold for you. Look, I realize I am speculating a bit here. I could be totally wrong and I'm sure we'll get an email that says, you dunno what you're talking about.

But when somebody offers you an opportunity like this, you gotta meet that opportunity with enthusiasm and gratitude follow through. You really have to honor it. You gotta meet it with the right attitude. I know this isn't fun to hear. Again, I'm speculating, but I just feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't point this out because whether that's the reason you didn't get this job or [00:30:00] not, there's a part of you that wants to drag your feet and that tendency is not going to serve you well in the future.

The good news is, hey, this kind of crap is how you learn and now that you're aware of this, you will never make this mistake again and you'll have a bachelor's anyways. And you can start to rewrite that tendency now by finishing the program that you started, despite the demotivating situation that you've run into here and meeting all of your future opportunities with the right spirit.

And look, you got this. You're already 70% of the way there. Good luck and now we're gonna immunize you against paying way too much for the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by BiOptimizers. Most people think sleep is all about how many hours you log, but the real game changer is deep sleep where I get like five minutes per night, but whatever.

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The quality of your sleep has a lot to do with what you're sleeping on, and that starts with sheets that are actually comfortable, not [00:32:00] scratchy, not too thin. That's why I love Boll and Branch. Their sheets feel incredible. The signer sheets are buttery soft right out of the box, and they actually get softer with every wash.

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Jordan Harbinger: Thank you for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discounts, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over on the website at Jordan [00:33:00] harbinger.com/deals.

Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to feedback Friday. Okay, next

Gabriel Mizrahi: up. Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 42-year-old single female, and I met my main friend in my friend group. Let's call her Jess, back in 2005. And I know what Jordan is gonna say. Yes, she chose the name Jess. No, we did not come up with that name.

Do not write us angry emails about always going with Jess. I could see it on his face and I'm just gonna spare him. Yeah, just cringing,

Jordan Harbinger: clenching sphincters

Gabriel Mizrahi: last summer while on a group trip that I was unable to attend, just told a friend of ours that she thought another guy in the group Nick was cute, and that she was gonna ask about, she's told me this story two or three times as recently as a few weeks ago, and each time her retelling was always the same that she asked him out and that he said he wasn't interested.

Each time she told it. My takeaway was how affronted she seemed, that he said no to her. They never hung out or texted. Then two weeks ago, Nick asked me [00:34:00] out via text while Jess was overseas on vacation. Before responding to him, I immediately thought I should run it by Jess, but she was on vacation and I was unsure about how it would affect her.

So I decided to call a mutual friend in the group to ask whether I would be a total a-hole for accepting Nick's invitation to hang out. My friend who was with Jess on that trip last year and knew of the exchange between Jess and Nick. Described the situation as Jess shot her shot and Nick said he wasn't interested.

That's it. She also went on to say that Nick and Jess don't have many things in common, but that she thought he and I definitely do, and I should definitely go for it, and I wouldn't be an a-hole at all for doing so, and that she doubted Jess would make a big deal about it.

Jordan Harbinger: Famous last word, so let me guess, Jess totally understood and was so happy for you guys and there was no drama as a result.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yep. That's the end of the story. Okay. And then they went to the Tika to get ice cream.

Jordan Harbinger: Perfect. Perfect.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Granted, this was the answer that I wanted to hear because I was interested in him as well, so I decided to oblige him. We ended up [00:35:00] hanging out three times in one week and have both exchanged the same sentiments that we really like each other and would like to see where things go.

When I texted Jess, I told her I just wanted to give her a heads up that Nick had asked me out and that we'd hung out a couple of times and I wanted to let her know even though they never connected. She said that the time to tell her would've been before we hung out. I explained that I didn't do that because she was on vacation and I didn't think it would've been the right time.

When I asked her what would've been different if I had told her the day he asked me out, as opposed to a few days later, she didn't answer.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. So yeah, nothing would've changed. That's the answer.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's basically the story. Yeah. And when I asked if she had feelings for Nick, she said that she didn't, but she did have feelings about quote someone she introduced into this friend group, going out with a guy she was interested in and felt shitty about being rejected by and not saying a word until they'd been hanging out.

Unquote.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, no. Ridiculous. What a petty stance to take. I brought you into this group and this is how you repay me by going out with a guy you [00:36:00] really click with. Who turned me down a year ago? A year ago. That's not even lame. That's actually insane. Like I'm still hurt by this one red flag. Like weird.

Two. So you can't do anything because you're rubbing it in to like, my ego hurts even more. I don't care if you like him. I, this is very weird.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That response really upset me. Yeah. I felt it was a low blow for her to bring up that she brought me into this friend group as though I'm on some conditional probationary period and I've somehow committed an infraction against her and the group.

Exactly. So I told her I was gonna go because I wasn't in the head space to respond to what she just said. I understand why she feels, how she feels about what I did. Of course I do.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, I'm not sure I do, but okay, you're just a better person than me. No surprise.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But she asked him out over a year ago.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, this is what I'm saying.

Gabriel Mizrahi: We seem to be on the same page. If

Jordan Harbinger: they were in a relationship and they dated for a while, that would, okay. Like, uh, I don't really want my friend dating my ex. This is not that [00:37:00] at all.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And I understand feelings of rejection and embarrassment, but I didn't know that she still felt that way.

Now, yeah, I'm hoping that she just spoke in anger and needed some time to cool off, but it's been a few days and I haven't heard from her. The more I think about it, the more I feel this was largely a miscommunication and a misunderstanding of where her head was. Now I'm struggling with what to do and worrying that she sees me as an untrustworthy person, and that our friendship is ruined.

Did I seriously mess up here? Signed, having major regrets, and try not to fret. After sending that text.

Jordan Harbinger: No. You did not seriously mess up here. You assumed like a rational person that your friend had moved on from this rejection after a freaking year and that she wouldn't take it as a personal offense if you went out with this guy that you have so much in common with the fact that she's treating this like a betrayal of your friendship, that she's lording over you.

The fact that she brought you into the friend group and she's assuming that this guy's off limits because she couldn't be with him. This is absurd, [00:38:00] selfish and absurd. Totally unwarranted where I would say, okay, maybe you did screw up a little and I think you already know this was in putting off, sending that text before you hung out.

Not so much because you needed her permission to accept Nick's invitation. You guys are adults. He asked you out. They never even hung out. Their plot line literally went nowhere. On a practical level, and maybe as a matter of basic respect slash cya, it might have been wise to send her a text saying, Hey, sorry to bother you with this while you're on vacation, but Nick asked me out.

I know you were interested in him at one point. I'm assuming that's all in the rear view mirror. I just wanted to tell you before we hang out, so there's no misunderstanding or weirdness. If you have any feelings about this, I'm happy to talk. Just let me know where you are. Something like that. Less asking for permission, more, getting out ahead of a potential problem.

You're not saying are you cool with it? You're saying this is what's happening. Just so you know. I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this. Honestly, with a more well adjusted person, this wouldn't even be a problem. You probably wouldn't even need to send a [00:39:00] text like that. Dude, I'm trying to put myself in in her shoes, Gabriel, if we were both single and I asked out a girl a year ago and she was like, oh, sorry.

No, you know, not like that. I'd be like, okay. I might be bummed, but I don't think a year later I'd be like, and then Julie ignored me. She had the gall to say, not, I don't like you, like that. I, I just wouldn't think about that. And then a year later you're like, Hey, that girl's sort of like interested in me.

I would just be like, oh, cool, she's cool. I tried to ask her out and she wasn't into it. Like, I just don't, I can't imagine the universe where I would give two shits about that. Like, it's always nice to signal to a friend, Hey, I care about you. I wanna do this thoughtfully. Like if you had said like, Hey, Julie asked me out, I, I would be like, oh, I appreciate that.

I don't think it would be super necessary though. It's just, it's thoughtful.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, totally. The fact that you didn't send that text, I know you said it was because she was on vacation. But I think you were also probably avoiding that conversation because you suspected that it would not go well. So you sort of knew that in advance.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, because she knew this was a minefield for Jess's [00:40:00] ego based on the way she told the story multiple times.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right. Because she was so affronted by Nick turning her down, so there's that.

Jordan Harbinger: She was like, yeah, I don't wanna create an obstacle. I don't wanna deal with, I'm just gonna kick the can down the road and hope this isn't as bad as I think, which I understand that impulse for sure.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You know, one of the things that I've learned as I've gotten a little older, whenever you feel that tug like, Ugh, I probably should have a chat with this person. You know, especially when your first instinct is like, no, I'm just gonna push that off as long as possible and hope that it doesn't go as badly as I think it will.

Well, you have the chat. You have the chat, you send the text. Those are signals that the chat is probably necessary, but it's gonna be hard. So you're trying to avoid it

Jordan Harbinger: and she knows that I appreciated her honesty when she said, granted, when my friend told me I had nothing to worry about, that was the answer I wanted to hear.

I, that's 2020 hindsight, I assume, but sometimes we need to listen to that gut instinct there.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So it's an interesting thing that happened here. Jess is clearly a tricky person sometimes. She sounds very tender in this department. Her ego is vulnerable. Our friend here said that she understands feelings of rejection and embarrassment, but I'm not sure that [00:41:00] she does fully not with a person like this.

Turning just down wasn't just hurtful or embarrassing. That's how a normal person would process that rejection. It sounds like it was kind of an injury, a narcissistic injury, a real blow to her sense of self.

Jordan Harbinger: The fact that her main takeaway was how affronted she was, that he said no to her and that she's still telling the story as recently as a few weeks ago.

Is actually a little scary, dude. I'm thinking about, and granted these are not people in my friendship circle Gabriel, but I'm thinking about when I was on my twenties and thirties like mission to get good with women, right? Mm-hmm. Rejection was such a effective life of that process. Hundreds of women were like, no thank you, or not returning my tech.

And I never was like, can you believe this bitch? Never because O otherwise what? I would have nothing. I would've no free time at all. My life would be consumed with this. And she's telling the story a year later. It's like a little mentally ill sounding a little

Gabriel Mizrahi: alarming. Yeah. Yeah. So you have a very different lens on this kind of experience.

Yes. But just imagine the collection of feelings [00:42:00] and life experiences, wounds. Self-concepts that would create a response like the one Jess had. When rejection gets refracted through that prism, it can be more than just hurtful or disappointing. It can put somebody in touch with inadequacy, shame, low self-worth, you know, those are tough.

Jordan Harbinger: I suppose those can sometimes feel almost fatal sometimes for certain people. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's a good word. And that's when the defenses kick in. Right. And it sounds like justice defense is probably a few different things, but one of them is kind of grandiosity, right? Right.

Jordan Harbinger: He doesn't know what he's missing.

I'm actually offended that he said no, what an idiot.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And also, I invited you into this friend group. How dare you grow out with a guy I was interested in.

Jordan Harbinger: Well, what she says is she views this whole thing as a status game. Like, well, you've put yourself above me in this group and I am supposed to be above you in this group.

And it's like, uh, other people aren't really thinking about that like that. Making yourself feel powerful, devaluing somebody, superiority stuff that's just all. It's all nonsense for insecure people.

Gabriel Mizrahi: If I can't get the guy I can at least be queen Bee. [00:43:00]

Jordan Harbinger: Ah,

yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Anyway, sorry for this long tangent. We're psychoanalyzing your annoying friend.

I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole, but my point is just I think you probably underestimated just how fragile your friend really is.

Jordan Harbinger: Although, come on, does that mean that it's, our friend heres felt like, sorry, I didn't realize your ego is so fragile and you were so hypersensitive that you were gonna overreact.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, it's not her fault at all. These are justice feelings to deal with. She might have stirred them up, but that doesn't mean she's responsible for them.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I, okay. I feel the same,

Gabriel Mizrahi: but our friend here on some level, intuited this fragility. And Jess, even if she didn't appreciate how severe it actually is, and then she cramped around it by not sending the text.

Which was both to spare Jess on her vacation, but also to spare herself for reasons that would also be really good for her to understand. But that gave Jess ammunition to confirm to herself, oh yeah, this actually was a betrayal because she'd only told me afterward, which only reinforces the lens that made her experience Nick's rejection as a near fatal offense.

Right? So that's what I find interesting how two friends, one of them largely blameless and well-meaning even if maybe a little avoidant in this [00:44:00] instance. How two friends can inadvertently create a conflict like this.

Jordan Harbinger: So the next time she's in this situation, maybe she can notice this tendency to spare slash protect other people and herself and just choose to lean into it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, that's it. And to be clear, it's no guarantee that Jess would've been completely okay with this. I think it's very likely that she still would've blown up at her.

Jordan Harbinger: That's what I'm getting hung up on, man. Like what would satisfy this woman if she's still nursing a rejection from a year ago?

Gabriel Mizrahi: So the goal isn't so much to satisfy the Jess of the world.

The goal is to communicate and conduct yourself in a way that gives everybody the information that they probably deserve at the best possible moment, so that you can know that you're on solid ground. Then if Jess or any other Jess in your life ever does have a difficult reaction, it's a lot clearer what's Jess's stuff and what's our friend here stuff.

And it just avoids the messy emotional math of a semi-conscious dynamic playing out.

Jordan Harbinger: Just playing devil's advocate here, is there a world where she is choosing a guy over her [00:45:00] friend here?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I appreciate you bringing it up. 'cause it is interesting to imagine it from another angle, but given the facts, I don't know if I see it that way.

I think it's more accurate to say that Jess is putting this guy between the two of them. By insisting that she has some claim on him that really doesn't exist.

Jordan Harbinger: That's a good point. But also to be fair to Jess, who does deserve one good chance to try this a different way, she might wanna go to Jess and try to work through this and help her see that she's not trying to hurt her by dating Nick.

And that this doesn't need to be the choice. Yes, if I were Jess, I'd wanna be asking myself, why does this hurt so much? Who am I really angry at? Are these expectations really fair? Why am I standing in the way of my friend's happiness? Why does that happiness have to come at my expense? That's really her work to do.

Your work is in the way you responded to her, and also enjoying this relationship with Nick. That's more WERK than WORK. So go get it, girl. But it sounds like a fun and potentially promising relationship, and if Jess can't see that, sadly she might not be a true friend to you at all. So good luck. You can reach us [00:46:00] friday@jordanharbinger.com.

Keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox, your step or live ones for that matter, your stepdad's got your nudes, your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall, or your sister's dating a mooching member of a 1% outlaw motorcycle gang, whatever's got you staying up at night lately.

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Two minute read. Jordan harbinger.com/news is where you can find it. Alright,

Gabriel Mizrahi: next up. Okay, so just a heads up that this question deals with some very intense stuff, pretty dark in case you're, I don't know, blasting this episode on a, on a Bluetooth speaker at a children's birthday party or something.

Famously, how most people

Jordan Harbinger: listen

Gabriel Mizrahi: to the show, right? Just listening on a Bose Flex sound while a clown does animal balloons in the background. Okay, let's get to the letter. [00:47:00] Dear Jordan and Gabe, four years, my 15-year-old experienced numerous health problems. In September, 2023, I discovered the source. She finally told her psychiatrist here in Uganda that her Sunday school principal at our church, a 40 something year old woman, had been sexually abusing her since she was nine.

Jordan Harbinger: I hate this already

Gabriel Mizrahi: More recently, she had subjected my child to gang rapes by her relatives and numerous strangers. This involved choking, burning her with lighters, urinating on her, and severe beatings.

Jordan Harbinger: My God, I've already read this letter by the way, and I am. Just speechless all over again because it's one of the, it's one of the worst things I can imagine learning as a parent.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It is beyond comprehension. We reported this to the police. The case was not investigated. Instead, we got death threats. My daughter told me that she had kept quiet because they had threatened to do the same to her younger sister. My eldest daughter lives in Canada, and I'm fortunate to have gotten visitor [00:48:00] visas for all of us.

When the threats escalated, we flew to Canada and are now refugee claimants. My child now suffers from serious PTSD and even had psychogenic non-epileptic seizures. She continued to get death threats from her abuser, and I was relieved when the doctors here in Canada stopped her from accessing her phone.

She's been in and out of different mental hospitals since September, 2024. The flashbacks are brutal to witness. Suicide attempts are frequent. Even in hospital under 24 hour guard,

Jordan Harbinger: your poor daughter. It's just so unspeakably sad. I, I'm so sorry to hear this. I hate it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Then this week she called me from the hospital and wailed for several minutes as she told me that the principal had also sexually abused my youngest child.

This explains why my now 12-year-old has bad anxiety, is very clingy and was scared of English lessons at their school.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay? I just can't even Ima both your daughters. This principle is obviously a psychopath and a monster. [00:49:00] This is the kind of thing that makes me just, if I could personally hunt this woman down and vigilant, take vigilante justice, I would do that.

I, I'm, I know. I'm just gonna leave it at that. I mean, it's, it's unbelievable. It makes you wish for somebody to do terrible things to these people. It's just horrible.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Makes you want to go full Liam Neeson on this woman. I know.

Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. Yeah. John Wick.

Gabriel Mizrahi: We are all in therapy, including a DBT parenting group for me.

My PTSD girl has yet to start trauma treatment because she is chronically suicidal. Guys, this has been a terrible couple of years. I spent all of my retirement savings relocating us from Uganda and was able to live off of these for almost a year. I've been unable to work because of the chaos and my own trauma.

I hope to start freelance writing and editing soon. We get Ontario Works government assistance, basically, and use the food bank, but I can't afford the rent. I managed to get a house by paying 10 months rent in advance to make up for not having the requisite references and credit history or pay stubs.

In the meantime, I am [00:50:00] completely broke, stuck in pain and scared, but I am a woman of faith and believe that God will bring healing to all of us. What can I do to earn an income? Knowing that complex PTSD is a long-term issue. What can I do to get justice for my daughter while in Canada and get international authorities to investigate this school and the principal?

And how can I ever heal from the pain of knowing this was going on under my nose? The betrayal and broken trust. Signed a broken heartened mom trying to get on after this massive bomb.

Jordan Harbinger: There are some stories that are just so awful and so painful that there are no good words. Yeah. As a parent, as an advice show host, whatever, as a human being, my heart just breaks for you and your daughters.

I just can't even believe that this happened. I can't believe they were abused and trafficked by this woman, the principal at their Sunday school. It's like this is a straight out of a horror movie. It's just, it's a crime. It's a betrayal. Absolutely disgusting and despicable, evil, frankly, thing to do to two young girls.

[00:51:00] Furious. Doesn't cut it. I'm angry at the police for not investigating how useless of a human are you? If you're a cop and you're like, nah, I just, I don't, I can't relate. I'm heartbroken for you. I really, I just don't have enough words to express my sadness for what you and your girls have been through.

So where to begin? I guess I wanna start by saying these awful things that your daughters and you frankly have been through. Tragically, they've happened. They've clearly had an impact on them. Your oldest especially, and it sounds like no matter what you do or how hard you work, you are gonna have to accept that all three of you are now in a very intense, very complicated process, and it's not gonna be easy for a while.

It'll take time. It might be very bumpy. I say that not to pile on. I say that because I don't want to gloss over the reality of what is happening to them by diving right into practical solutions. There's a huge piece of this problem that doesn't have a practical solution. As a mother having no control at this point over what happened, I think you're gonna have to hold two truths in your [00:52:00] mind at the same time.

One truth is that your daughters desperately need your love, your hard work, your intervention. You gotta fight like hell for them. The other truth is that you cannot heal them overnight. You cannot undo what has been done to them. You cannot make this okay. It's not okay. You're probably going to be in an ongoing process of acceptance and grief and chaos for some time, maybe even a long time.

And I want to make room for that because I'm sure you're gonna come up against the limits of your ability many times. And there will be moments where you, you'll have to say to yourself, this is horrible. This is heartbreaking, this is terrifying. And I have to accept that this is what's happening. I have to let my daughters process this, however they will.

I have to make peace with this pain. I have to surrender. And I also imagine your faith will play a big role in that. And if so, I say, great, as long as that faith is compatible with action, which it sounds like it is. So let's talk about action. You need a job, you need to be able to financially support your daughters.

Your best strategy, and this won't be a surprise to [00:53:00] you, will be to start cultivating relationships wherever you go all the time. The person behind the desk, at the food bank, at the employment center. These have to become your new allies. Win those people over your neighbor who's lived in Ontario longer than you have.

Make them your new BFF, the stranger sitting next to you at church in your DBT support group. Turn to those people. Introduce yourself, talk about the service, the support group. Get to know them on a personal level. And by the way, well done on getting yourself to that support group in the first place. I'm so glad you're surrounding yourself with these resources, these people.

That is excellent. And to be clear, I don't mean this in a cynical way. I'm not telling you to just view everyone you meet as a tool for employment, but there is a practical aspect to relationship building. The more you meet and get to know people, the more goodwill you build, the more dots you can put on the board to connect up.

The sooner you're gonna land a decent job. Obviously you have to do all the other things. Apply for jobs, invest in your skills, figure out how you can be most useful to people. Pick up the phone, call organizations, pitch yourself. Maybe you [00:54:00] volunteer at your church fundraiser or whatever. All of that. I love that you're already exploring, writing and editing.

It sounds like you have real skills that will be valuable to a lot of different people, which is terrific. But the glue, the fuel, it's always gonna be the quality of your relationships. And obviously I gotta plug six minute networking. Six minute networking.com. I've said this before. This stuff is not just about landing a job, it's about building a life that's supported and organized by your relationships.

This stuff is just as crucial for an asylum seeker as it is for an executive who's trying to rise up. And obviously I probably don't have to say that it's free, but it's free. So please take advantage of six minute networking now about getting justice. That's a much more complicated question, Gabe. I'm a little bit at a loss on this one there in Canada now.

Thank God the police in Uganda either didn't take it seriously or just refused to do anything about it because corruption, possibly, I, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not even sure why the police would even start now doing anything. So is getting justice even the right thing to focus on at this [00:55:00] point at all?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I mean it's certainly a fair thing to wanna focus on. Her daughters have been victimized. They deserve justice and also other victims, there must be others and they deserve protection too. So I get it.

Jordan Harbinger: No, for sure. I just mean with all of this turbulence and pain and the more pressing issue of earning enough money, should she also be spending her precious time and energy trying to get justice for what happened back home?

Gabriel Mizrahi: No. Right. Yeah, fair point. And it's a good question. Only she can really answer that, but I do agree that her number one priority needs to be getting a career that will stabilize them, take care of them. I imagine it's gonna be hard to fight the good fight on the justice front without, you know, having a secure roof over their heads and food in the fridge and knowing that her daughter is not immediately at risk of suicide and all of that.

But when you're ready, and I think you'll know when it's time, I would consider reaching out to some people who can help you draw some attention to your case. I'm thinking legal aid organizations. I'm thinking religious nonprofits that focus on community support. Maybe folks that focus on holding people in the church world accountable.

I'm also thinking journalists in [00:56:00] Uganda and maybe also in Canada who cover crimes like this or religious abuse or police corruption or failures of justice more broadly.

Jordan Harbinger: Or refugees who come to Canada seeking asylum when what they're fleeing back home. Just to throw another angle in there, because maybe they're like, well, we can't do anything about this, but we can show why people come to Canada, what their, the desperation that they face back home.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Great idea. You write these people with your beautiful writing skills and you say, hi, I'm so and so. I've been following your work in this area. Thank you for what you do. Here's what happened to my daughters at this school. Here's how the system failed us. I want justice, I need guidance, and I would be very grateful to partner with you on bringing this to light and holding these people accountable.

I think if you're gonna get the right people to pay attention in Uganda, at this point, it's probably gonna be because a lawyer takes up your case. Or your daughter's story appears in a major newspaper or something, and the article says, these girls were trafficked and abused, and the mother went to the police and the police did nothing.

And someone from on high [00:57:00] reads that and goes, oh shit. This is a problem. Now we gotta look into this, or it's gonna look even worse.

Jordan Harbinger: Totally it, look, it shouldn't work this way, but sadly, it often does.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It often does, and this isn't always successful, but it can be. It's gonna take a lot of work, but you might be amazed by the people you will connect with and that kind of support can really snowball and it can make a real difference.

Jordan Harbinger: It's interesting, Gabe, both of her questions, how do I make money and how do I get justice in a big way? They both come down to how she tells her story. Thank goodness she's a writer,

Gabriel Mizrahi: right? Yeah. You took the words right outta my mouth. She has to become a storyteller. Now.

Jordan Harbinger: Look, I'm sure the last thing she wants to do is tell a stranger at a job fair or whatever, Hey, my daughters were horrifically abused by their Sunday school principal.

I desperately need a job to pay for their therapy. Not that she's even the type of person who would do that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, but doing that in the right way, I do think that needs to be part of her strategy here for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. A again, I'm not encouraging her to be cynical about this. I'm not saying, you know, trot out your tale of woe to curry favor with everyone you meet, so they'll have pity on you.

But this story. It's so heartbreaking and it's [00:58:00] extremely powerful because of that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. I'm watching her movie. I'm invested in that story.

Jordan Harbinger: That's what I'm talking about. She needs people to invest in her, whether it's asking someone to introduce her to hiring managers or getting a therapist to give her an affordable rate, or getting a landlord to lower the rent, whatever it is that she needs.

So I'll let you decide how and when to tell your story. It's your story. I can't tell you how to talk about something this personal, but I do wanna encourage you to get comfortable with the idea of sharing these parts of your story with people just as you did with us. As difficult as it must be, you have to give people a window into your life.

You have to give them a reason to care. And when they hear what you've been going through and they see how hard you're working, not just waiting for somebody to save you, I think you might be shocked by how much people show up for you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I totally agree. Before we wrap up here, let's talk about what healing might look like.

I'm with Jordan. This is gonna be a long road. I imagine it's not gonna be linear. Obviously therapy is gonna be a huge component, and again, kudos to you for [00:59:00] getting your daughters and yourself into treatment, into hospitals when necessary into the support group. I commend you so much for that, and I really hope you in the hospitals can help stabilize your oldest daughter.

It sounds like she's in a lot of pain. I can't even imagine how hard that must be to watch, and I'm just so sorry. The other big form of healing is gonna come through your friendships, your family, your connection to God, to finding meaning and suffering, and also just the love that you and your daughters give one another.

I think you know that, but what you're wrestling with specifically is the pain of knowing that this abuse is going on under your nose, so to speak, of being betrayed by a trusted person who was in a position of authority, and that is a very unique pain. I don't have any easy answers there. Your anger, your hurt.

They are real, they're appropriate. I'm not sure how you're supposed to immediately convert those feelings into something else or heal them overnight. And honestly, I'm not sure that you should.

Jordan Harbinger: I mean, that anger might end up being quite useful when she [01:00:00] channels it into the job search, into reaching out to people about sharing her story.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, definitely. And maybe that's a form of healing too, but look at the beginning of the segment, Jordan, you said that she's gonna have to move between these two ideas, that she needs to fight like hell and she needs to surrender. Yes. And I think that this is one area where she probably needs to surrender for the moment.

The pain that she's in is unavoidable. It can't be undone. I do hope in time that it eases up. Maybe it'll evolve, but she can't fast forward through that. She can only sit with it and yeah, use it as motivation, follow it into relationships and opportunities that can help her and her family, of course. But all of that will still involve self-forgiveness and it will require a lot of acceptance.

It kind of pains me to leave you with a thought because you know, what do I know about a pain like this? I don't. And if I were in your shoes, I would want to get rid of the feeling too. I would want to heal as soon as possible. I guess I'll just offer you two things. One is surrendering does not mean giving up.

There's a difference. And two, how do I put this exactly? It's such a big concept, but [01:01:00] so much of life is uncontrollable, right? Uncontrollable and non-negotiable. A lot of things just happen. They happen to us and sometimes they are really bad things and they leave us with very intense, very complicated feelings that just have no easy remedies.

And I think they push us to a place that the mind cannot do anything about on its own. It seems to me that you are in one of those situations now, and you're gonna find your own way through it. And I'm confident that the answers and the relief that you're looking for, they will come in time. But until they do, I do think you're gonna have to give yourself over to these feelings without trying to change them too much.

So if you can't forgive yourself, then maybe try accepting. And if you can't accept, then you know, just allow. And if even that is difficult, then maybe. Just observe, you know, I don't think that this is a mental experience anymore. It's really, it's a spiritual one.

Jordan Harbinger: This is so intense. I 100% understand why she's struggling as a parent.

It's your duty to protect your children. [01:02:00] Even those stories like this show that you can't always do that and you feel like you failed. If you don't, if I were in her shoes, I don't think I'd be handling this half as well as she is, honestly. And I mean, she moved to another country that the whole thing is kind of impressive and amazing.

But still, I would encourage you to not turn this rage. You feel against yourself too much. Although I completely understand why this happens. You've entrusted this educator with your children, which virtually all parents do all the time, and she violated that trust. She took that responsibility, which is a sacred one, and she did literally the worst thing she could have done with it.

And I know, I know I said this at the top, but this woman, these men, they deserve to, at the very least, rot in prison for life for what they did to your children. And God knows how many other children, this is monstrous. I have to believe that some form of justice is coming for her. People like this are a disease on humanity, and I am so deeply sorry that your family crossed paths with somebody like this.

It's terrifying to me that they're the principle of a Sunday school. I mean, this is like what you hear from Q Anon, except it's [01:03:00] real life. It's absolutely insane. But listen, you're doing so much right here. The immigrant journey is not an easy one. There will be very tough periods. You're incredibly courageous to make this transition, and I know it might not seem like it, but your daughters are lucky to have a mother who's creating a new home for them, who's working hard to support them through this, and who's taking care of herself,

Gabriel Mizrahi: which is equally important, by the way.

I'm glad you touched on that.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you're in your own recovery process too, and that's essential for your daughter's healing. I'm so impressed with what you've accomplished so far. I'm very proud of how you're showing up to this, frankly, unimaginable situation. Sending you and your daughters a big hug and wishing you all the best.

You know who won't make a tasteless ad pivot after a letter like that? Oh my gosh. We'll be right back.

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Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by the defender. We all have those big goals that seem just outta reach, right? But the truth is that's what keeps us moving forward. For the people who embrace challenges and explore their way, there's the defender. The defender is built to handle whatever comes its way with legendary capability on road or off.

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Now, back to feedback Friday. Alright, and now for the recommendation of the week,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I am addicted to lit filler. So at the top of the episode, I mentioned that I just got back from this amazing road trip, and I think part of the reason it was so amazing is that I did much less planning for this trip than I have ever done.

I didn't have a set return date, I didn't have a detailed itinerary. I just kind of booked one day at a time, maybe two days, sometimes not even knowing where I was gonna sleep that very night. It all started because I just booked the rental car and I, you know, that was it. I was like, oh, well now I have to do it 'cause I already, I have to go to Avis in the morning and get the car right.

And then I booked my Airbnb for the first night in the car on the way to Avis and I just kind of managed the whole trip like that with just a couple, you know, guiding lights [01:08:00] to give the trip a little bit of shape. And it's been the best part of my time in Europe so far. The whole experience reminded me just how little planning and how little certainty we actually need to have a really great time or just to do something awesome.

All you have to do really is take one step toward the thing you want just one. And sometimes you kind of have to force yourself to do it. I was a little bit in that mindset, I was like, uh, when am I gonna do it? Should I do it this week? Hmm, maybe I can do it next week. And I was like, you know what, now is my moment.

I'm gonna go book the reservation at Davis and then I'm committed. It's interesting 'cause like the mind does not like having one step done and not the other 10 already at least mapped out. But you usually don't have to do the other 10. You can just do them as you go and it's better.

Jordan Harbinger: Totally. Or you won't even end up needing to do them at all.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, exactly. So this applies to something small, like a road trip. It also applies to bigger things, career goals, creative projects, you know, big habits you wanna develop, whatever. When I made my short film a couple years ago, my first big step was writing the script and then asking my friend Brenna to be my [01:09:00] producer.

And then after that it was like. A wave got created and I can't even take credit for it. She brought the project to a production company. They brought all their expertise before I knew it, we had a great DP and bigger actors and more budget and better locations and better post-production. And the whole thing just had its own logic.

It's had its own momentum. And all I had to do was kind of guide it and make the most of it. And that's how the best things are in life, I think. So my recommendation of the week is not having everything planned out before you begin something. Just taking the first step and then see what happens. I'm a big fan of this.

I'm gonna do more travels in the spirit.

Jordan Harbinger: Amen to all that. Gabe And I would add, living this way can be a little nerve wracking, can be hard if you run a little anxious. 'cause like you said, it does involve a degree of uncertainty. But that's also what I love about doing stuff this way. It kind of forces you to increase your capacity for that uncertainty.

And to me, there's a very fine line between uncertainty and anticipation. The uncertainty actually heightens the fun because you're constantly surprised and you [01:10:00] don't know exactly what's gonna happen next. So you're also retraining your brain to experience uncertainty in a new way, and that can change how you navigate so many things in life.

A solid wreck. Also, in case y'all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you wanna jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, if there was an episode you really liked, an episode you really didn't like, or you wanna share some additional thoughts or learn more from other people in the show, fam, definitely check it out.

There's really some fun conversations happening in there. A lot of venting and like back and forth, good faith debates that are polite. You can find that in the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Alright,

Jordan Harbinger: next up.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hello Jordan and Gabe. My girlfriend and I listened to feedback Friday weekly, and something we've noticed becoming more common is letter writers going overboard and adding redundant, useless, or smarmy information in their inquiries.

For example, my amazing, smart, handsome, funny, professional, underwater basket weaving. Husband and I have been together for five wonderful, fulfilling, amazing, and [01:11:00] exciting years. However, I think he's cheating on me, or he isn't communicating with me, or he is lying to me, et cetera. Or my 8-year-old child who's neurodivergent at the top of their game and crushing it in life is being bullied by the mean HOA for breaking rules that I, as his parent agreed to abide by.

What does being neurodivergent have to do with this question? Is this a parent or spouse? Humble bragging or trying to talk themselves into something that they don't believe in their heart.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow, okay. This is really getting under their skin. Eh, I mean, it's an interesting question. I suppose

Gabriel Mizrahi: that underwater basket weaving comment is kind of funny though.

I will give them

Jordan Harbinger: that. It's a nice touch. Personally, I love knowing what weird hobbies people's spouses are into, I suppose. But I look, I see what they're getting at. I already have thoughts, obviously, but keep going.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Here's another gripe. This one isn't as common on your show, thankfully, but it has still been sprinkled in here and there.

The belief that social injustices should be at the forefront of every conversation and social situation. [01:12:00] No, I'm not gonna have these conversations when going to family gatherings, attending social meetups, or visiting my friend in the hospital after having a major surgery. Why are people expecting these things to take over our lives?

Jordan Harbinger: I'm not sure who people are. I don't think everyone is doing this, but clearly these topics are a part of the conversation now more than ever, and people have different feelings about them, different interests in talking about this stuff, and that's fair. I am a little puzzled by your frustration that this happens on the show sometimes, though.

I mean, if somebody brings up some social injustice in a letter, it's usually because it's somewhat relevant to their story, right? It doesn't mean they're trying to shoehorn a conversation about racism or whatever into a story about cheating. I think I, maybe I just keep jumping the gun. I'll let you finish.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm a gay woman and I dislike when I'm told I need to acknowledge these things better or that I'm quote, doing my people a disservice by not putting them at the forefront of my life, especially by self-appointed allies. Does it ever stop Vimo Vamos? What? Say you. Signed feeling the time [01:13:00] is ripe to share a couple of gripes.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Well, that's a fascinating reveal. I didn't necessarily see that coming. Yeah, you

Gabriel Mizrahi: didn't see that coming, did you?

Jordan Harbinger: I 100% thought this was a white, middle-aged dude until the end there. Why wouldn't I? I'm a white middle-aged dude, but I love that she waited until the very end to tell us that she's gay.

Yeah. Well, I'm kind of riveted by this letter now. This just became about something much more interesting. Obviously that's one of those Latin phrases. Yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I had to look this up as well. So it means while we live, let us live.

Jordan Harbinger: Got it. Okay. Carpe diem kind of thing. I don't know,

Gabriel Mizrahi: something like that. Make the most of life while you have it.

I think. Enjoy the present moment.

Jordan Harbinger: Very on brand with your recommendation of the week.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. I did not plan that, but yes, totally. I'm firmly in my Doom Vi. Vimo. Vira

Jordan Harbinger: and a Mary Vi Vamos to you as well. So, okay. This is a unique one. I'm not sure we've gotten a letter like this before. A little complainy, a little philosophy, a little pretentious Latin lesson.

Lots going on here. So she doesn't like it when people throw in extraneous details. Interesting. Look, I guess I take your point when the details aren't truly relevant to the story, [01:14:00] I'm sure that happens from time to time. I get it. I also think these details usually do matter, maybe in ways that are not immediately apparent.

For example, in that cheating example you gave, if someone's like, my amazing husband is great in all these ways, our marriage has been incredible, but I also think he might be cheating. I actually think that is super relevant because that complicates the picture. It gives us additional data. It helps us understand the bind that this person is in.

If they didn't say any of that and they just said, Hey, I think my husband's cheating. It's like, okay, we can try to help, but there's way less context

Gabriel Mizrahi: also, it's way less interesting, and then there's less connection, less relation stuff happening with us and the person. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Same thing with the other example, right?

If somebody mentions that their child is neurodivergent and being treated poorly by the HOA for selling chocolate bars to the neighbors in the lobby or whatever, that is also relevant because A, a neuro divergent child will experience that differently. Okay. Maybe their neurodivergence is informing the situation in some way, and B.

A parent of a neurodivergent child might need to approach their child differently, help them work through the problem differently. [01:15:00] But again, C, even if it's not totally relevant, I still kind of like knowing who this particular kid is. It's not just any 8-year-old. It's a super intelligent 8-year-old on the spectrum.

That's the reality of that listener's situation. We love hearing about it, and I think we need to hear about

Gabriel Mizrahi: it. Well, I mean, just look at our friend. Here's letter. We thought she was one kind of person. We thought her letter was one kind of letter, and then she tells us that she's gay. Yeah, good point. I mean, would she argue that that was an indulgent or extraneous detail?

I mean, in a way it is. We don't need to know that she's gay in order to answer her questions. The fact that she's gay makes her question so much more interesting and more complex. So yeah. Now there's an interesting contradiction or a wrinkle there. It also potentially puts her on more solid ground when she says that she doesn't need self-appointed allies, telling her how much to talk about issues related to her identity.

Whereas if that were coming from someone else, it might mean something different.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, if this came from a middle-aged white dude, like a, it's just a very different question. Depending on who poses it,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm not sure I would've chosen the letter actually, if it were the case.

Jordan Harbinger: I [01:16:00] believe it. So are these details always self-indulgent or humble?

Braggy, or an attempt to talk yourself into something you don't believe in your heart? Clearly not.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's interesting. Her other argument, which she kind of slipped in there, is that these personal details are irrelevant in light of certain other facts. Like it doesn't matter if your child is brilliant or neurodivergent or whatever.

If they live in a building where the HOA says you cannot sell stuff in the lobby, for her it's end of story. Who cares what kind of child your kid is,

Jordan Harbinger: right? So my sense is that she's a very practical person, a very no-nonsense person. And hey, I can respect that. I admire that quality too sometimes, but my feeling is that practicality misses a lot of interesting territory and it kind of flattens the nuance of the stories we take.

Agreed. I'm not trying to like cut her down for this. I'm sure she has good reasons for being practical and logical and there's absolutely a place for that. But if you look at the story of the autistic child selling stuff in the lobby and you go, sorry, you're autistic, sorry, your side hustle's being shut down.

But the rules are the rules. None of the other stuff matters that shuts other things down. Then we don't get to explore what it's like for that kid, that parent. We don't get to talk about [01:17:00] creative solutions to their problem. We don't get to empathize with a kid with a unique brain, none of that, or we just get a letter that's way more generic.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah. Which does tend to make our answers more generic.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. So the more we talk about this, the more I feel that being neuro divergent kind of has everything to do with the question. It is the question.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Her second question is even more interesting to me actually.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Honestly, I don't know if I have a good answer there.

I can appreciate where she's coming from. I don't know if every Thanksgiving dinner or hospital visit needs to end up being about police violence or apartheid or whatever. Not because these aren't topics worthy of discussion. Of course they are. But there's a time and a place for everything,

Gabriel Mizrahi: and sometimes this is my experience, sometimes these philosophical or political discussions, which by the way are rarely true debates or conversations, right?

They're usually just people voicing their established opinions and kind of speaking past each other, which might be part of what she doesn't appreciate. But sometimes these discussions can actually eclipse the more important thing in that moment, which is. We're having dinner together, we're visiting you in the hospital, we're getting to know each other, whatever.

It's

Jordan Harbinger: [01:18:00] so I totally take her point there. I can also appreciate that questions of social justice. Just to state the obvious, they're important. It's good that we're talking about them more. We're in touch with topics and feelings and problems now that we weren't before. And sometimes people wanna bring those into their close relationships, which is how Thanksgiving dinner can end up being about police violence or LGBT rights or whatever.

What I don't think is cool, and I think I'm on her side on this, is people lecturing you about what your relationship with this stuff should be, how vocal you should be about it, how much time you should spend thinking about it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I mean that's up to her. Of course. Truly,

Jordan Harbinger: if a straight self-appointed ally is giving you shit for not posting about Pride Week on Instagram, coming from them especially, that's annoying and it's presumptuous and I get why it rubs you the wrong way.

I hate to traffic in these broad stereotypes. I know not everyone is like this, but that is why people get annoyed with social justice warriors. This is the gay equivalent of a white person telling a black person that they're letting down black people by not talking or thinking about racism the way they are.

It's like, eh, [01:19:00] thanks for fighting the good fight. I'm glad you're passionate about this stuff, but who are you to tell me the very person you say you're fighting for, that I'm doing social justice wrong, that I'm letting down my people. They're not even your people. Shut your face.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It is pretty presumptuous.

Jordan Harbinger: It is. And I'm getting a little sweaty talking about this 'cause this is not a political show and I'm not even trying to make a political point here at all. For me, it's about empathy. This is about respect. It's about self-awareness.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I'm with you. And it's also about a person's right to decide what relationship they want to have with their own identity.

I don't know if anyone else gets to tell 'em that.

Jordan Harbinger: Agreed. So does the social justice talk ever stop? I mean, I don't know. Probably not. Especially on the internet. I'm not sure. I'd wanna live in a world where we never talk about this stuff in a responsible, respectful way. But you can decide how and when you participate in it, who you hang out with, what you do with these feelings.

It might also be interesting for you to share them with people. Like if you're in the hospital visiting a friend and someone starts talking about Israel and Palestine, maybe say, Hey, I love that we're all passionate about peace and human rights guys, but we're here 'cause Tanya had a surgery. Let's keep the [01:20:00] focus on her today.

Do that with a smile. It might help people reflect on the best time to talk about this stuff. But look this practical, no nonsense quality of yours. I think it has upsides and downsides. So while you're making some very fair points, I would also encourage you to make room for feelings and mindsets that are different from yours, which is exactly what you want other people to do with you, including this tendency for people to include certain details about themselves in their letters.

It might be interesting to consider why these personal details rub you the wrong way. What part of you is being stirred up by other people, sharing them? I do wonder if your two gripes are maybe two sides of the same coin. In the spirit of feedback Friday, I'd love to invite you to bring more curiosity to these parts of yourself and other highfalutin sentiments.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Maybe it's just a thought. Maybe the practical, logical part of her brain is in part a way to deal with the vulnerability and also the messiness of living with all of the facts about a person, you know, or at least a response to it. 'cause that doesn't seem to sit very well with her.

Jordan Harbinger: [01:21:00] It's a way to short circuit the tension of living with multiple truths.

Yeah. The HOA rules might be very clear and a neuro divergent child might be facing a really interesting dilemma. A marriage might be great and one spouse is struggling with difficult feelings.

Yeah.

Anyway, you can't go wrong doing this 'cause we can only empathize with other people to the extent that we relate to ourselves.

Go back and check out Dr. Mike Israetel if you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm @JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram @GabrielMizrahi.

This show is created in association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So consult a professional before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Remember, we've rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I [01:22:00] hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

Here's a trailer featuring Tom Hardin. Once entangled an insider trading who transformed into Tipper X, a pivotal informant, instrumental in exposing major securities fraud cases for the FBI.

JHS Clip: So insider trading, trading stocks on information that's material. And if you have that information before the public, you can place your long trade or your short trade if they're gonna miss or beat the estimates from Wall Street.

So if you were to have this information before everybody else, then you can make profitable trades. And my rationalization was, seems like everybody's doing it. Who am I hurting? The boss was looking the other way. I'll do it just this once and never do it again. I placed the trade and it was just a few keystrokes.

Years later, people say, what were you thinking? It was all a very slow, slippery slope of like, this is how I rationalized it. And I hear this guy behind me say, Hey, are you Tom? Turn around. Yeah. [01:23:00] There was two FBI agents and he's like, look man, we know about your four trades. And my first thought was, I know why they're here.

I, oh my God, my dad's gonna kill me. Oh my God, my wife's gonna divorce me. And then I thought, holy crap, this might impact my career. Let my God might go into prison. So it went from dad to prison. I immediately started making implicating statements. So the sentencing guidelines is based on the money my firm made just over a million.

So I was looking at three years in prison. If you would've told me when I graduated from Penn, you know, a few years later, you're gonna be insider trading. I would never do that because I'm a good guy. It was all self-inflicted. I did this all to my family myself. You know, for the past seven years now, pretty much every week I get in front of a group of people, a complete group of strangers, and tell them the worst

Jordan Harbinger: thing I've ever done.

Don't miss this compelling story of a transformation and redemption on episode 918.