1182: Contractual Cuddles Leave Roommate Befuddled | Feedback Friday

1182: Contractual Cuddles Leave Roommate Befuddled | Feedback Friday

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my glossy bro. With that Vinyasa flow, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Gabriel Mizrahi: This humidity is doing my skin a lot of favors. You are right about that.

Jordan Harbinger: Also, where are you recording from? It's like a really nice cave from, it looks really nice, but it sounds like you're in some, you're Donald Trump's bathroom.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I know. It's like I'm recording from Torah Bora today. Yeah, there's a distinct dearth of rugs in this apartment that I'm staying in, so I apologize for the um, for the Echo. Yeah. We

Jordan Harbinger: don't film these episodes, but basically the only rug that seems to be in the whole room is of course on the wall

Gabriel Mizrahi: and that is how you know that you're staying in an Airbnb on the Nacoya Peninsula.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Carpet. Uh, sure on the wall only though. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.[00:01:00]

During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, former jihadi, drug traffickers, arms dealers, national security advisors. This week we had Jefferson Fisher, author of the Next Conversation. He's a trial lawyer, super interesting guy. Talks about persuasion, communication, some amazing tactics that will help get you deep rapport in connection with others.

Like I said, he's a trial attorney, so the episode is punctuated and illustrated with all sorts of really interesting examples from his law practice and personal life. I think you'll like this one with kind of a good hang, if you know what I mean. I think that you will learn a lot about these topics and put them into practice even if you're not a soulless lawyer like me.

On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and take this traveling Lydia Show into a new era as we dispense wisdom from two very different time zones. So Gabe, this is the first episode. We're recording. While you're traveling, I know you're in Costa Rica. Yeah. How far away are you from building a compound for your breath work cult in Costa Rica?

I don't know. Like a couple

Gabriel Mizrahi: years. Still a ways off. Yeah, we're good. Don't worry about it. It's not gonna interrupt the show yet.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:00] Good. So yoga teacher training, you just wrapped up a few days ago. What is that? I mean, it's a lot of stretching. Fun. Tell me everything.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, it's just stretching really all day.

Oh man. Dude, I am, I'm honestly Jordan, I'm still kind of reeling from yoga teacher training. It was incredible. It was very intense, but it was, it was so eye-opening and it was so fun. It's hard to explain. You're, I mean, first of all, it's rigorous, man. It's two and a half weeks, 200 hours of training. You are waking up at 5:00 AM every day.

You're doing yoga from six to eight in the morning. You're in class, basically like on and off until. Seven 30 at night. Oh my God. With a couple breaks.

Jordan Harbinger: How long is this training? It was 16 days. For a guy who can barely touch his toes, this is a nightmare for me. A nightmare. It was

Gabriel Mizrahi: slightly nightmarish in the beginning because you're like getting on the schedule and you're dealing with this new place, and you are waking up at five and you're having to be at the dining hall at five 30 for your lemon water, and so Of course.

So stressful. But dude, the place that I went to is this [00:03:00] really dope yoga teacher training center in the jungle, in this small beach town in Costa Rica. What's it called? It's called,

Jordan Harbinger: oh, okay. So

Gabriel Mizrahi: like the thing that Costa Ricans say all the time. It's a play on that because they say URA Vida, but this is, oh, I see.

Veda like the Vedas, which are the texts that yoga comes from.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, I see, I see. Okay. So this is a yoga academy, or it's a, it's a training school for teachers. And then what do you do with that? I mean, you're not gonna become a yoga teacher, right? You're just, it was just fun. No,

Gabriel Mizrahi: that's not really in the plans.

Okay. It wasn't the reason that I went, I just wanted to, you know, like deepen my practice. Everybody

Jordan Harbinger: breathe a sigh of relief.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Gabe's not gonna leave to go teach yoga, eh? You might want to do my class before you decide whether I should be teaching. One thing I loved about this place is that they had you practice teaching almost, I wanna say day two or day three.

I see. So you are really thrown into it and you have to lead classes almost from the get go, which is kind of remarkable because by the end of the training, we were all teaching one hour classes and I was like, two weeks ago, I could not have even begun to cue this [00:04:00] stuff. Wow. Side note, teaching yoga, or at least teaching yoga, well, so much harder than you think.

It's incredibly difficult. And just to like cue the students and also to keep an eye on the students and know where you've been and know where you're going. And keep your lefts and your rights straight, which by the way is the hardest part

Jordan Harbinger: of the whole process. Like Right, like put your left hand No, no, you're sorry.

Your right. Your other left hand on your right knee. Yes. Nope. Sorry. You're all knee. Left knee. Left knee, right

Gabriel Mizrahi: knee. Turn to the right. Look to the left. Yeah. Yes. We already did the left side. Now we gotta get the right. But then when you're switching sides, you go to the back of the mat, everything's reversed.

And holding all of that in your mind and making sure that you're hitting all the things you need to hit. And still being present to the class and being spontaneous and alive like it is hard, man.

Jordan Harbinger: It's like his own form of yoga and mindfulness, I suppose.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Truly, dude, truly. It's so meta, bro. But I gotta say, man, the whole experience, like it was sort of like being in the military, but also being in the white lotus

Jordan Harbinger: without

Gabriel Mizrahi: the stab

Jordan Harbinger: of the whole thing.

Hopefully without

Gabriel Mizrahi: the stabbing and without like everyone complaining about the food, right? [00:05:00] Because the food was epic and everyone was so happy to be there, but like nice. It was just very enlivening. It was very fun, but it was demanding, man. And it's sustainable, and you get used to it. You start going to bed at 9:00 PM 9:30 PM because otherwise you're wrecked the next day.

But it was so funny because I went down there and just timing wise, it was kind of unfortunate. I had to work on a pitch for this movie that I'm, I'm pitching for a job right now, and then I also had to do a rewrite that I thought was done, but we got another round of notes on this other script. So I'm going to class and then during my breaks I'm running back to my Casita five minutes from the, from the place and working for hours a day.

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: Throwing yourself into like New York LA grind mode for 20 minutes and then running back to yoga training. Ugh. No thank you.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I was like, am I the worst yoga student on earth right now

Jordan Harbinger: or am I multitasking guru style?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I was asking myself the same question 'cause I was like, oh, this is requiring, this is requiring a lot of drishti right now.

A lot of [00:06:00] focus. 'cause I'm gonna have to toggle between these two parts of my life and be really into the thing when I'm doing it, and then put it away and go back to class and be fully present for that. Yeah, it was kind of amazing. It was a good exercise. It just wasn't really what I imagined. Sure.

Pictured growing a yoga teacher training,

Jordan Harbinger: but this seems like one of those experiences where you're just so immersed and every day is so packed. It feels like a week. Then you come home and your brain and your heart grew three sizes, but you're also like, okay, I realize now that I know nothing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah,

Jordan Harbinger: there's so much more to understand.

That's kind of how I feel after Wayfinders, and I've talked about them on the show before, those retreats, you're like, totally okay. I've done so much. But a lot of it is like scratching new surfaces that I didn't know were there, and now I have a ton of stuff to dive into.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Totally. I think it's gonna take me a few weeks to integrate everything we learned at yoga teacher training.

Also, when you do yoga teacher training, you realize that you are barely scratching the surface of what yoga is. It is such a huge discipline and tradition and system, whatever you want to call it. The physical practice of yoga is actually the smallest part of yoga. It's one of the eight limbs within one of the [00:07:00] four main ways of yoga.

So what we in the west do as yoga, which is mostly a physical practice with some, you know, little spiritual sprinklings worked in here and there, if you zoom out, it's a really, really small piece of the, the overall picture. And so we spent time with the philosophy and some of the texts, and I mean, again, in two and a half weeks you can only go so deep.

We really just got the, the bare bones. But it was really cool. I felt like I was back in school again and just expanding so much every day. And then now when I go to the mat, the practice means so much more. It was one of the best things I've ever done. I think yoga teacher training, I'm very happy about it.

Jordan Harbinger: So even though your travels look pretty lit on Instagram, this is still feedback Friday. We gotta get to that dos man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I know. We gotta transition into, uh, into downward, do Asana. That's right.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. With a big old inhale. 'cause you know, we're setting up for some juicy. Kandana

Gabriel Mizrahi: my new favorite post. That's right.

The Way's

Jordan Harbinger: Feedback Friday, your weekly kandana after a hard week of dealing with your own problems.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:08:00] Can I tell you before you go in though, I have to tell you a couple really quick stories. Go for it. I just have to tell you about this stuff so people

Jordan Harbinger: are like, God, I just put the phone away and I have to get it out and fast forward again.

All right, fine. Go. Go for it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: First of all, so you know that I packed for, I don't know, six to nine months of travel 'cause you're moving.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah,

Gabriel Mizrahi: yeah. 'cause I don't have a home. You're homeless.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm homeless. And also I had to bring all my recording equipment, which was its own suitcase. So I flew into Liberia airport and then I had six or seven hours at the airport until the shuttle for the place was ready.

So I used that time to finish some of my work. I met a few other people from training and the other people in my group, their flights, land hours after mine and I start to meet them outside for the shuttle. And they're all women, young women. And they roll up with like a carry-on and a backpack. An old Gabey has like one huge oversized heavy suitcase, another heavy carry-on and a backpack

Jordan Harbinger: high maintenance.

Gabe, it was

Gabriel Mizrahi: so funny, dude, like [00:09:00] they were very nice about it. They were like, what's with all the stuff, man? Mm-hmm. I was like, I'm moving. Okay. Yeah. It's like I was like going outta my way to make excuses, but I literally felt like the YTT princess in the group, right? And these girls were just traveling light.

It was so funny.

Jordan Harbinger: I'm surprised they didn't pull you aside and be like, can we talk about your materialism? Sometimes it's good not to have all your creature comforts as you make like a French press tea

Gabriel Mizrahi: with You think that I brought my French press with me? I did not. I mean,

Jordan Harbinger: I don't know. It

Gabriel Mizrahi: was just mostly the starlink and the,

Jordan Harbinger: you gotta, yeah, you, excuse me.

I had to bring up my own starlink Internet. Talk to me when You can't post this on Instagram, Shelly. Then we'll see who packed too much crap. Speaking of the

Gabriel Mizrahi: other personalities in the group, there was a, there was one girl in our group, she was a recent college grad. And um, man, I could tell you so many cool stories about these people.

It was really funny. You bond hard with these people, even if you have nothing in common. When you do something like this, you get really close. But there was one day where we were coming back to class. It was about [00:10:00] 2:30 PM We're all setting up our mats for the class to begin. And one of the girls this recent college grad is in the shower.

And the shower is located right next to the yoga Shala, which is where we learn and practice every morning. Okay. And she's running a little bit late, so she's in the shower and then we hear the shower turn off and then like 30 seconds later we hear a blood curling scream. Oh my god. And the teacher, Sonia was like, is everything okay?

What's going on? And she's like, I got bitten by a scorpion. I. That was a little bit of a drama and she starts crying, which I understand 'cause I hear it's very painful, I'm sure. And then she comes into class and she's still kind of like sniffling and sobbing a little bit and we're all just like, oh my God, are you okay?

Like, what's going on? And Sonia goes, what happened exactly? And she's like, I got bitten twice. It was in my towel, and she put the towel around her and bit her. And she's like, where did it bite you? And she goes, the worst place you can imagine. Oh my God. A little labia chump. Ouch. [00:11:00] Oh dude, what an image.

That's horrible to me. You just put that, but yeah. Oh man. This poor girl. So for the rest of the afternoon, she was like, I'm not, I can't practice. I'm just gonna sit here with my aloe vera and my ice. It was so intense.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. Yikes. Scorpion bite in the jungle happens to me straight on a business class, flight home after that.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Straight to the centurion lounge.

Jordan Harbinger: Sir, do you need more ice for your old fashioned? No, but I do need more ice for my left testicle, because I got bitten by the whole plane. Would know I got bitten by a scorpion. Just in case anyone's curious, I'm icing my left testicle because I get bit by a scorpion in the jungle, a MA ask, ask me anything.

I mean,

Gabriel Mizrahi: I felt really bad for her, but I also was like, you have the best story of anybody here on this trip so far. Wow. So that was pretty lit. But dude, I could tell you so many stories about you. A teacher train, but yeah, we gotta get to the Des cruise 'cause let's do it. We don't want it to depart without us, but let's do

Jordan Harbinger: it.

We can always jump back into these next week for sure. Or the week after. Sure. I'm sure you're not done talking about it, processing it all. Namaste ste. Now must go on to the next [00:12:00] section. What is the first thing outta the mailbag? Hi, Jordan and Gabe.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm a 3-year-old single male and homeowner with a stable job.

My home has four bedrooms and I currently have a female roommate. Let's call her Susan. Susan has been a friend of mine since high school. We started hanging out at parties and on trips, but nothing romantic ever crossed my mind. She's divorced and single, but I only saw her as a friend even when we moved in together.

Last month, Susan, four friends and I went to Las Vegas. We had a blast, and on one of those days, Susan and I ended up cuddling something we had never done. It was a nice feeling and moment for both of us. That night we went to a club and I ended up introducing a guy I met to our group. He and Susan danced together.

They ended up going back to his hotel, and you can imagine what happened A week later, we spoke about the cuddling situation and we agreed that we both had felt something, but were not ready to start a relationship. Because of what had happened with that guy, we agreed to take it slow. Part of this [00:13:00] agreement was to cuddle a few times during the week.

Jordan Harbinger: What, sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but, okay. Agreement.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Interesting word.

Jordan Harbinger: It's a cuddle

Gabriel Mizrahi: contract, man. Yeah. I mean, not that that's a real thing. What are the, what are the tees and C's on that one? No, uh, no bedroom eyes and shared spaces and, uh, like guaranteed spooning three times a week and every other Sunday

Jordan Harbinger: sounds very sexy.

Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So I'm guessing he meant that they just agreed to put a limit around the cuddling.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, it's just strange. Like if you wanna cuddle with somebody, you cuddling bruh. Ain't no stopping that roommate lust. I don't know. We need an agreement. We

Gabriel Mizrahi: had already planned to attend EDC, so before going, I confessed that I was developing a crush on her.

We agreed to go as friends, but not to fool around with anyone else.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh, this is weird. Okay, so another agreement. What is going on?

Gabriel Mizrahi: A lot of agreeing going on in this story.

Jordan Harbinger: Again, I'm not trying to belittle this guy at all, so I hope that's not the feeling I'm showing off here, but something is not making sense to me here.

They agreed to go as friends. Hey, fine, that's great. Clarifies things, but then they also can't hook up with anyone else. So they keep things [00:14:00] nice and tidy, but then they also cannot have their own fun. That just doesn't sound right. Kind of sounds like the worst of both worlds to me. A hundred percent. I think what's happening is that they're both a bit confused and scared.

Yes. And they're also trying to protect their feelings or egos or whatever. Exactly. And each other's feelings. But to what end? I'm just not, I, I'm not sure I understand the strategy here. Side note, EDC is dope. I went years ago, I actually ran into some show fans in line, which is great. 'cause I was like

Gabriel Mizrahi: three sheets to the wind.

You like ED, C. This is so confusing to me. Yeah, I love it. I would not have expected this.

Jordan Harbinger: I love stuff like this. Yeah. In fact, Jen was like, Hey, do you want to go to, I, I think it was like a ts o show and I was like, nah, I'd rather go to EDC 'cause I wanna party for like three days and, or like all night. I don't wanna go to a show that's five hours long because then what am I supposed to do for the next five hours?

Anyway, there's a story in there, but like Drew Carey said on our interview, he also loves EDC, by the way, but he doesn't do drugs because, and I quote because I'm the host of The Price Is, right. So that's my line as well. I, I love EDC, but of course I can't do what everyone [00:15:00] else is doing there because I'm the host of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, sure. Like he's the host of the Price Is Right. So he couldn't possibly be doing no wholesome top shelf, Molly. That's right. No,

Jordan Harbinger: exactly. It is just, just $8 bottles of water all night long.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Mm-hmm. So it goes on. I upheld my part of the deal, but she didn't. Oh boy. Here we go, man. On the second day of our trip, I noticed she was texting someone and was planning on meeting him outside our campsite, the same guy from the previous month in Las Vegas.

After her side Quest. She didn't even mention that she was gone and acted as if nothing had happened. I got upset, but I decided not to say anything and ruin the trip for our group, so I just enjoyed EDC. Oh

Jordan Harbinger: man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Tail is old as time. You hate to

Jordan Harbinger: see it. Gabe, what? How, wait, how old are they again? Is this twenties thing?

Gabriel Mizrahi: 32.

Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. Okay. All. All right,

Gabriel Mizrahi: continue. It's been a week now and I haven't confronted her about the situation. We haven't cuddled either. Ah, Bree, I feel a little hurt and confused. I don't hate her, but I feel lied [00:16:00] to and used, but I also still like her as a roommate and I would hate for a situation to force her to leave.

Am I wrong for feeling this way? Should I address the situation to finally move on? Signed a Lovelorn landlord going back to the drawing board to resolve this discord over a fling that was barely explored.

Jordan Harbinger: Woof. Okay. Interesting situation. So, uh, man, I am sorry that you feel hurt and you feel used. I don't know about the used part used for cuddles.

I, I get you that you're confused. I myself have been there once or twice as a young buck. I know how unpleasant this can be. It sucks not to know where you stand with somebody and get mixed signals, and these are mixed signals. I'm not gonna gaslight you on that, but it also sucks not to be chosen. I know I was giving you a little bit of a tough time a moment ago, but I, I really do feel for you.

So now, especially you weren't chosen in favor of a guy you introduced to the group so that it sucks even more. So. Look, you're not wrong for feeling this way. You feel how you feel. Susan has put you in a position where you're especially vulnerable and uncertain whether she meant to do that or [00:17:00] not. I gotta say, you also have both created this situation in an interesting way.

You by expressing your interest in her, but kind of qualifying or moderating your intentions with her, probably overly formalizing something that could have unfolded a little bit more organically, not communicating your feelings as well as you could have. And Susan, by obviously not being totally clear with you about her feelings, what she really wants right now.

And by not being totally transparent about other parts of her life, like this fling with this other guy, that she's sort of trying to hide from you, basically not giving you all the information that you needed to know where you stand with her and make the best decision for yourself.

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's exactly right.

But to be fair, that does take some time to learn how to do it takes practice.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. Yeah, it does. That's why I was like, what are they 22? No, they're 32. They're my unvarnished opinion here is that they're old enough to stop playing these games. But they're also only just getting to that phase as a grownup, where you can say to somebody, Hey, look, this is where I'm at.

Where are you at? Let's be open with each other so nobody gets hurt. I mean, I think Jen was the first relationship where I actually said stuff like that, or maybe the [00:18:00] one right before Jen. Mm-hmm. Where I was like, look, I don't wanna just be friends with you. I want a romantic relationship. And this girl was like.

I just kinda like sleeping with you, and I was like, eh, it's not enough for me. And we went our separate ways and I was like, wow, that felt really good. Even though it didn't work out, I was like, wow. I just said what I wanted and it didn't work. And then we just like, we don't have to throw each other's clothes outta the window.

This is amazing.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, I feel like I only learned how to do that in the last few years and it could be a little bit scary to be really honest with somebody about where you are and what you want. Yes. But then you do it a couple times and you're like, my God, this is so much easier. Why wasn't I doing this all along?

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. Look, I wanna be fair to our friend here though. He's her friend and her potential lover and her landlord. He's being thoughtful and sensitive about that, and I really appreciate that because he's not like, how do I evict her so that, that I get back at her without her, you know, suing me. I mean, come on.

So he's being pretty cool about

Gabriel Mizrahi: the whole thing. Right? And he's thinking about her living situation too. Yes. I, I, I agree with you. And he doesn't wanna lose her as a roommate, that matters too. So he is in a weird place

Jordan Harbinger: and it sounds like he doesn't wanna lose her as a friend potentially, which is kind of nice.

Maybe I'm reading into that too much. I get [00:19:00] why this whole thing makes things even more complicated. It's all coming from a good place. Although the second you start cuddling with your roommate slash tenant, you do take a risk. That either goes brilliantly or it blows up in your face. Trust me, I'm on. I'm on those subreddits too.

I'm not saying it was necessarily a mistake. If there was something fun and meaningful to explore and you're both feeling it, great, but you gotta go into a situation like this with eyes wide open. Like, are you friends with benefits? And she can go and do whatever she wants and you can get a girlfriend if that's what's happening.

Cool. If you're just cuddling, fine. But if you're just cuddling and then you're gonna be jealous of a guy that she's hooking up with, this ish is not gonna work, dude.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So do you think he should talk to her or, or what? What's the move?

Jordan Harbinger: I'm torn, honestly. Like there's a part of me going, my guy read the room.

She's hooking up with somebody else. She's not telling you about it. I'm not saying she's not into you. I think she's intrigued by you. Was willing at least to explore it. Clearly she wants to have her freedom or she doesn't wanna be held down if you're not gonna sort of like shit or get off the pot.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Although it's such early days, they're not even ready to discuss that yet. But you're right, she is showing him with her actions [00:20:00] what she wants. And part of his job is to interpret those correctly and then act accordingly.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. Which probably mean, in my opinion, means backing off a little bit, enjoying some of that freedom yourself, licking your wounds, just letting the situation mellow a little bit before you confront her, which you should not do in my opinion.

But then another part of me is going, yeah, you should talk to her as a friend and as her landlord. 'cause you guys have gotten tangled up here. And it would probably help your relationship if you just put some things on the table and got clear with each other. My advice there is I would not make this conversation primarily about like, do you like me?

Do you still wanna cuddle it? Bummed me out that you hooked up with that guy. All of that is legit, but it's gonna, it's stuff for you to work through on your own, man. You're gonna look like such a weenie doing that, and it's not necessary. It's not gonna help you. I think this conversation should be more like, look, our friendship and our living situation means a lot to me.

I wanna protect them above all else, I don't want you to feel like you have to leave because of what happened. I confess I'm a little confused about where we stand. If you wanna clarify that with each other, let's do it. I think it would be helpful for both of [00:21:00] us, but I also know that we don't owe each other anything.

We're not in a committed relationship. We're free to do whatever we want. So going forward, if we continue to explore things romantically, maybe we can be a little bit more open with each other along the way, just so there's no confusion. Something like that. You can find your own words and then you have to be willing to live up to that promise.

If you can't, if it's too hard, then you should not get involved with this girl. You cannot sort of like have her as your cuddle partner, and then she never hooks up with anybody until you're ready to pull the trigger. That was unrealistic and unfair. The point is, I think this is more about how you communicate with each other and how you guys try to manage each other.

Like with these little agreements, I just don't recommend you do that anymore.

Gabriel Mizrahi: For sure. 'cause if you know where you stand with each other, you don't need that stuff. Mm-hmm. You either give each other the freedom to do what you want, you know what this is, or you organically explore things. And if there's a real connection and you guys want to keep going, then I don't know.

Do do dot you'll probably stop seeing other people naturally. Yes. Or you'll decide what the relationship should look like. I don't think you need the, the formalization so much.

Jordan Harbinger: If they had cuddled and then she was [00:22:00] like, I like you. And he's like, I like you. And then they were like, let's take things slowly like they said they were going to do and then they started like making out.

She probably wouldn't be hooking up with a random dude she met at a club in Vegas. Maybe not though. Especially if she's camping with you, she'd be hooking up with you. But if you're like, I wanna keep you, it sounds to me, man, and again, I'm putting words in this guy's mouth and these might not be fair, but it sounds like he's like, I want you kind of on the back burner because I like the snuggle thing and I wanna feel like you like me and I kind of like you, but I don't actually wanna do any of the other harder stuff that's involved in having a relationship because I'm not ready to do that.

And it's like. She's clearly not on the same page.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah, I think that's really what's happening. I think their feelings are just not totally in sync. Right? That's what's happening. Yeah. And they have different interests and different options and the way that he is showing up is also maybe giving her some pause, agreed about whether to pursue.

Jordan Harbinger: So whatever you do, man, keep doing it thoughtfully, kindly, respectfully, but also in a way that doesn't make your problems, her problems. I think this is a situation where Susan's gonna need you to lead. 'cause my sense is that she doesn't [00:23:00] quite have the tools that you're about to develop some combination of talking and reading the room and that's gonna clear things right up.

I know it hurts, but it's all part of growing up and I feel patronizing saying that to a 3-year-old man. But it's true. I mean, I would say that to a 40-year-old man in a few months, you're gonna look back at this chapter and I think you will literally laugh 'cause it taught you some important stuff and you, it's so much easier to handle, I think, than you realize.

Good luck,

Gabriel Mizrahi: Jordan. I know this is not the point of his letter, but camping at EDC sounds like a minor nightmare to me. Yeah, I mean, when I was in my twenties maybe, and I did go to Burning Man, and we camped and it was cool, but you could not pay me enough to go to EDC camping now. I'm actually still kind of shocked that you liked it so much.

I just didn't see that coming. What is the deal? Camping my brother in Christ, I stayed at the

Jordan Harbinger: Bellagio. Okay, first of all, and it's like hours of traffic to get in there. No, I took the Uber helicopter thing in and out. I am too old. Okay? Way too old to be camping in a hundred degree weather. Near a racetrack in Vegas.

Gabriel Mizrahi: [00:24:00] Now I understand why you love EDC, okay? Mm-hmm. Here I was picturing you sleeping in like a an RE. I rented sleeping bag 10 feet from Susan's low key dick appointment or something.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, no, thank you. Admittedly, it is much more fun when you don't have to camp in 110 degree heat. You can leave whenever you want.

I'm at the pool during the day. I'm getting those scammy IV bag drips of vitamins and stuff. It's a different experience for me. Like my dinner before EDC is at Joe's Stone Crab and I'm like getting a mixology thing and eating king crab legs. I am not in traffic waiting to, you're not

Gabriel Mizrahi: ordering funnel cake from the stand by, uh, by Testo stage.

Yeah, exactly. Now I understand. Okay. I had such a different image.

Jordan Harbinger: No, I am not listening to dubstep next to one of those fire blowing things waiting in line for chicken fingers. No, sir.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I didn't realize that you were having this Succession experience of EDC. You were like rolling in and out like one of the people on, what's that show about the traders on Showtime?

It's so stupid. Oh God.

Jordan Harbinger: I don't know. It's just me and Drew [00:25:00] Carey definitely not doing anything that would be against our contract because he's the host of the prices. Right. And I'm the host of the Jordan Harvey show, and now we have a cuddle agreement that we need to honor. So snuggle up with the amazing sponsors that support this show.

We'll be right back.

This episode is sponsored in part by Better Help. Are you stressed at work? Email, slack back to back. Zoom calls somehow. Now you're gotta eat lunch, exercise and be a functional human. Yeah. Okay. This summer I've been trying to keep it together with small stuff. Get outside for some sun Walk uphill like I'm training forever.

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If that doesn't work, email usJordan@jordanharbinger.com. I'll dig up the code for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. [00:28:00]

Gabriel Mizrahi: Okay, what's next? Dear handsome boy, number one, and Phillies Fog. Wait, what's that?

Jordan Harbinger: Am I supposed to know what that is? That's one of those literature things that's gonna out me as being completely ignorant and undereducated.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I had to look it up too. I figured I did not recognize the name. So he's the main character in the book around the world in 80 Days.

Jordan Harbinger: Did he travel with 16 bags too? And starlink Internet?

Gabriel Mizrahi: They were probably trunks.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, like a Foot Locker.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You know those guys back then and like the Colonial Brits would go to all these crazy places with like 32 trunks.

Jordan Harbinger: They're called Foot Lockers. Oh, that's what a Foot Locker is. They're called Foot Lockers. It's basically a giant chest. Yeah. Instead of backpacks or suitcases or something reasonable. Mm-hmm. That's when they're like. Whacking their way through the jungle or someone else is doing that part for them and they're walking through with their like monocle in their boots and they're like, come on chefs.

What's taking so long? And there's like a bunch of shirtless dudes carrying 16 pairs of outerwear like, but don't get my smoking jacket whack you

Gabriel Mizrahi: nin poop. They're knee deep mud because one of the trunks has like four of their dining [00:29:00] tuxedos Because they would've to right uphold civilization when they were having dinner in the bush, right?

Yeah. That was not me for the record, but the idea of me as a colonial British person in Liberia airport is weirdly hitting close stone. So yes, the letter goes on. I only had a sister growing up and my 55-year-old brother-in-law is the brother I never had. Seven months ago, he suffered a stroke and was not found for hours.

Oh man. It was very scary and very touch and go. He had to have one third of his skull removed to relieve pressure.

Jordan Harbinger: So his brain swells. Yes. I guess if you have a stroke, your brain swells. Or maybe he just hit his head and his brain S. That's so scary. Yes, very intense. Geez.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Since that time, his wife, who's an Ivy League md, PhD and the CEO of a pharmaceutical company has acted in ways that defy explanation.

She significantly limited visitors when the stroke first happened and would only allow visitors to see him with her present after he was airlifted to one of the best hospitals in the country. She cut off most of his family of origin, two parents, eight siblings, seven [00:30:00] spouses in-law from seeing him and stopped reporting on his condition, she now controls every single aspect of his life.

No one except one brother saw him for four months. He was later moved to a rehab center where much the same occurred. Then he was moved to another facility no matter where he was. She required all visitors to be cleared by her. She barely reports on his condition, but when she does, she tells people in their vacation community that he's in a coma.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. A

Gabriel Mizrahi: friend didn't believe her, went to see him and was thrown out. Others in the community reported the same. We have proof in writing of different statuses shared to different groups. Then she went to court and had him declared legally incompetent. She's declared health issues with him that we have proof never existed.

She says her husband spent 28 years protecting her from us. She's never explained what that means. She tells people he hates his parents, but before the stroke, he visited them three or four times a week to check in on them because they live independently in their eighties, 10 minutes from their home. My [00:31:00] wife's parents got a lawyer involved, and thanks to his initial efforts, we were finally told where he was.

It was more of a warehouse than a care facility. We were all allowed to see him. He still has a sense of humor. He can hold conversations. He remembers childhood. He evaluates real estate deals, which is his career, but the facility won't even clean or shave him. His sister, who's a registered nurse, did that.

She also brought him new clothes, but the clothes went missing. After a few days, his wife took his iPhone and tablet. A friend of his who works for Apple got him a custom iPad for stroke victims, but the password was changed and then it disappeared soon after. At best he has Netflix. He had to resort to watching Spider-Man three with Toby McGuire on Easter.

Jordan Harbinger: Oh my god. Spider-Man. Not even Spider-Man one The best one or the new one with the guy from the social network. Okay, that's the final straw. Not being clean, not being changed. Part of your skull missing, stealing your clothes. That's tough. But they're making the guy watch Toby McGuire movies. No, I kid.

This is [00:32:00] horrible. I'm very sorry this is happening to you guys. How This is very sketchy, by the way. Geez. This is

Gabriel Mizrahi: very tragic. But you are hot. Toby McGuire take is, it is so funny. I did not know you hated him so much.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I know. After talking with Molly Bloom and reading her book and stuff, and I remember in her book she talks about Toby McGuire and on the show she mentioned Toby McGuire.

That's episode one 20. Talk about throwback. And then I met her randomly at an event. And I was like, Hey, Molly. And then we started talking and she, I was like, I'm surprised you didn't get sued by Toby and McGuire for what you said about him in the book. And she's like, it's so much worse than what I put in into print.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Oh, really? Wow. And I was like, oh, because what she said about him, from what I remember was pretty bad. Yes. He did not sound like a, an easy customer. And

Jordan Harbinger: she's not the only one. I mean, I, I lived in Hollywood for a while and you talk with people and you're like, who's the biggest dick that people think is great?

And it's like that name just comes up over and over again. Really? Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Wow.

Jordan Harbinger: Okay. And then it's like, who's, who's nice? That looks like a dick. And it's like Robert Downey Jr.

Gabriel Mizrahi: What is the detail that she included in her book about him? Was it that he brought his own scale or [00:33:00] his own counter for the money or something?

I don't know because he didn't trust her equipment.

Jordan Harbinger: Maybe. But then also like he would goad people who could not afford to lose into losing like people who are way down and who were not rich and famous. And he would take their money. He just would give them no chance to like win it back and he would rub it in their face and everybody was like, can we not invite him anymore?

Like he's a terrible, like other Hollywood people, we were like, and apparently he was terrible to everyone except for Leonardo DiCaprio basically, and other super famous people who could like affect his career. But if you couldn't do anything for him, he was just like a complete POS. Interesting. Yeah.

Well that tracks, doesn't it? I mean, that's just what I've heard. You know? I have no personal experience. It's not even my opinion, it's other people's opinions as reported on this show. Lawyers. Anyway, uh, what are we talking about? Right? A man who had a stroke and is now being hidden from his family.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Whose life is also being ruined by Toby McGuire. Apparently, yes. After his craniotomy, he needed a third of his skull replaced. Scans were required. His wife would not schedule them. It took legal action to force her to get them scheduled. When asked if he [00:34:00] wanted the scans for the skull, he responded, my wife is a good woman and takes care of me.

She's taking care of this. What do you make of that, Jordan? That's not totally scripted response at all. Yeah. Does that mean she took the phone and answered for him, or is he brainwashed? Either way it's bad news.

Jordan Harbinger: Either way, his brain is exposed. Maybe it's easier to wash that way. Sorry. That's a disgusting joke.

Wow.

Gabriel Mizrahi: No, that is vivid though, isn't

Jordan Harbinger: it? It is. I mean, the dude's missing a third of his skull. If I was missing a part of my skull, I'd like to think the first question Jen would have is, when do you put that thing back together? When do you close the door on the skull? Right. And meanwhile, she's like, I'm not scheduling the scans to see if he's gonna live.

I, she might be rich with her CEO position, but something tells me she kind of doesn't want this guy to make it through this.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Uh, let's get into that in a second. 'cause there are more details coming.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Seven months after his skull was removed, it was finally replaced. He's now in recovery. Then she hit him again.

We have no idea where he is now. So he got

Jordan Harbinger: moved because they knew where he was. Mm-hmm. This is so scary and so weird. [00:35:00]

Gabriel Mizrahi: Someone maybe a nurse at the facility. Maybe a neighbor called Adult Protective Services. But my sister-in-law used the investigation to tell her husband that we were suing her, that his family was victimizing her and forcing their 17-year-old daughter to testify.

The a PS investigator asked my brother-in-law why as a 55-year-old man, he had no phone, but he made excuses and nothing changed, and the care facility is on her side. He's not getting the physical therapy he needs to walk or function again. We don't know what the family allegedly did to deserve this.

She is never said,

Jordan Harbinger: this is such a mess. Your sister-in-law, man, she's clearly up to something, but what is it? Just revenge and spite because she has some weird inexplicable beef with your family or is she a psycho controlling weirdo? I'm kind of getting the latter vibe. I mean both, it's probably some poque nola's dose, right?

I I think it's a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B,

Gabriel Mizrahi: or is she trying to isolate him for some other, some other purpose?

Jordan Harbinger: The sort of [00:36:00] functional person in me who doesn't always assume everybody is a psychopathic narcissist is thinking this guy's got money and she doesn't really care about him that much and wants him to die so that, that she could be free of it.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Ugh. I hate to say it, but if feedback Friday is any indication, that's often the reason people do this kind of thing. It just makes me sad to think that that could be why

Jordan Harbinger: I'm afraid You're right. I mean, why on earth would you not want your husband's skull put together? Why on earth would you put him into bad care facility?

Look, if she hated the family but loved the husband. She would put him someplace really nice and he would be taken care of, and then she would be like, I'm not telling you where he is. He's fine. And he then they would see him and see that he was fine. They saw him and he's not fine, and he's in a shit hole that is not somebody who just wants to take good care of him without family interference.

This is somebody who wants to be able to neglect him. And keep the family from finding out that's different. Yeah.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But there might also be some practical reasons. He did say that his brother-in-law works in real estate. Yeah. And he's apparently pretty good at it. So yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: What size is that? Real estate portfolio.

Right. Maybe there's a good amount of money there. But also again though that she's the CEO of a pharma company. She's an [00:37:00] MD PhD, she's probably making several hundred thousand slash million dollars for herself. Right. She can't be doing that badly. But then again, people who have a lot of money, they always want more money.

So yeah. I don't know

Gabriel Mizrahi: by the way that detail about her job and her background so interesting. She is obviously pretty bright. I mean, she must be pretty ambitious to be in that position

Jordan Harbinger: and possibly ruthless. I mean to be the CEO of a pharma company and an MD and a PhD, this is quite the opponent to go up against.

Yeah, she, it sounds quite manipulative. She's cunning. She has the care facility on her side 'cause she pays the bills. She's got legal protections in place. It sounds like she's gotten her husband to say that she's taking good care of him, which she obviously is not. That's really scary. She's got resources because she has money, both his and hers.

My question is,

Gabriel Mizrahi: how do you have time to gate keep your husband when you're running a pharmaceutical company? Like that's a 24 7 job, I imagine. And also you have time to change his iPad password. She's

Jordan Harbinger: driven, man. I'll give her that. Or she's got somebody helping her. Who knows.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Separately, the Euro turned 40.

In 2018, I [00:38:00] was in a very dark place and sought therapy and medication due to a cancer scare. The stress of running a company and my business being on the brink of failure. That year, my wife's family planned a bridal shower for someone else on my birthday. She promised she'd be home for dinner. On my 40th, she wasn't.

I made dinner for her kids and tried not to cry at the table. She caved to her mother's and sister's pressure and stayed to clean up. She was very late. I'm still not over that because she's never done anything beyond offer me easy words. Then recently my wife wanted us to take a weekend away the first time in a long time that she offered to plan something for us.

But now her mom is sick. She was diagnosed with broken heart syndrome triggered by everything with my brother-in-law. So the weekend away is now in jeopardy. Maybe it's for the best. My wife would've let me down anyway. Every time I reach out to her, something pulls her away. Usually it's the kids or her family.

Sometimes it's understandable, like medical emergencies and other times it's not. No matter [00:39:00] what, I'm on the back burner. Despite being asked to support everyone, even our teenage daughters see it. Interestingly, her sister, the one bathing and shaving, their brother once bluntly told me that my wife doesn't prioritize me.

Wow. I am beyond tired. I feel invisible. It's now impacting my business. But if I raise the issue, I'm accused of being a heartless, emotionless workaholic. I'm trying to support my family while supporting the families of my 100 employees and their families. How can I help my brother-in-law in a way that doesn't imperil my fragile marriage or harm my in-laws?

How can I help my wife without losing my entire identity signed, battling for control and saving an isolated soul when I'm in a dark hole?

Jordan Harbinger: Wow, dude. Yeah. When it rains, it pours. Huh? This is a tough one man. There's a lot going on here. There are no easy answers. First of all, as you can probably tell, my heart absolutely goes out to you and your wife and her whole family for what he's been through, what his wife is doing to him or with him.

Based on what you've [00:40:00] shared, assuming there's no horrific thing your family's done to this woman that you didn't include in your letter. The whole thing is unconscionable. Your sister-in-law is depriving her husband of the care and connection that he needs to recover, and she's depriving you guys of your relationship with your brother-in-law.

I mean, it's just not okay at all. If this were happening in my family, I would be freaking furious and you better believe I'd be in court all the time trying to figure out what to do about this. Honestly, everything you're describing really does sound like elder abuse, possibly even medical kidnapping.

Yes, that's a thing. Medical kidnapping it, it's kind of a hard thing to prove, and based on my understanding, it's not a crime in and of itself. But if it involves false imprisonment, which is basically preventing somebody from leaving a place, neglect, abuse, fraud, undue influence, many of which could be at play here, those can be prosecuted under criminal laws.

But whether your sister-in-law's actually abusing or kidnapping her husband, I think it's fair to say that the isolation, the inconsistent reports, I mean, who lies to people and says he's in a coma? That's [00:41:00] insane. You just don't want people to visit him. What is going on? The questionable living conditions.

To put it mildly, the lack of necessary treatment. When you take a step back, this does paint a picture of coercive control. You know, Gabriel, this just occurred to me as well, even if she has a massive beef with the family, one, it's not included here, okay, fine. But two, she lied to their friends in their vacation community and said he's in a coma.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that detail.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So what is she up to there?

Jordan Harbinger: Right? So she doesn't want anyone to visit him. Not just, oh, the family sucks, but hey, these are our friends. They're cool. She doesn't want anyone to visit him. That's different. That is sort of underlined, bold, highlights this one even for me, and puts another point in the court of maybe there's not a beef with the family, she's just actually trying to control access to him.

You know what's

Gabriel Mizrahi: funny? When I first heard that detail, I thought she was saying that to like milk their sympathy. But no, of course not. She's saying that because she wants people to think that they can't talk to him.

Jordan Harbinger: Exactly. He can't be texted, he can't be visited, he's asleep, which is not true. It's [00:42:00] unbelievable and sadly, vague coercive control.

That's often how abuse manifests in cases involving vulnerable adults like your brother-in-law. So, okay, let's get tactical for a moment here. First of all, hiring a lawyer, 100% the right thing to do. I would stay close with your attorney, let him advise you on how to keep pushing back against any dodgy moves by your sister-in-law.

The problem is you said she went to court and had her husband declared legally incompetent. Oh

Gabriel Mizrahi: man, that's gonna be hard to overcome.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes. This is hard to overcome. I'm guessing that means she was granted legal, guardianship or conservatorship. Mm-hmm. Once a judge signs off on that, the petitioner has a ton of power.

Unfortunately, she is his legal guardian. Now she gets to call most slash all of the shots, and unless the court revokes or modifies that guardianship, well she can keep doing this legally, even if it's doing him harm. See, also Britney Spears. Right. So your options are basically this. You could work with your family's attorney to petition the court to review or revoke the guardianship, but that's gonna require evidence that your sister-in-law is either incompetent, [00:43:00] abusive, or neglectful.

That's gonna be an uphill battle, especially if she has the resources to fight back, which it sure sounds like she does, but I'd say, look, this is obviously worth the fight. Now, the fact that she possibly slash probably used false or misleading medical information to convince the court that her husband needed a guardian in the first place and that she was the best or only person for the job that could be considered fraud.

I would start arguing that and it could be grounds to challenge the guardianship quite effectively. But it will require hard evidence, medical records, conflicting testimony, expert opinions. Ideally an attorney who specializes in elder law, guardianship disputes, medical fraud, stuff like that. So you don't want some like attorney who does trusts in estates and also some personal injury and auto cases on this.

You want somebody who's very familiar with this system, okay? So if that's not your attorney, find another attorney ASAP with this kind of experience. This is a mixed bag. This is an expense and it could take a while, I think. Luckily, yes, this evil woman has resources, but it sounds like this is the whole family versus one person.

[00:44:00] So what's good about this is y'all have the time. If you put it together and look, if everybody donates $500 a month, now you got a lot of, if you got 10 people who wanna see 'em, 15 people, you got legal costs covered. Okay? So I'm sort of speculating here, but I assume some people can afford it and others can't, and you can make up the difference.

Gabriel Mizrahi: There's also a version of this where a family member, ideally somebody with a medical background like your RN sister-in-law, which is great that somebody like that is in the family. That person could request the court for a limited guardianship. But again, time, money, emotional stress, and probably the involvement of the whole family to get that

Jordan Harbinger: your other option, escalate this to adult protective services, it sounds like they are already investigating.

Do this as many times as you have to include specific documented claims with your report. The timeline of events here, photos of neglect. Evidence of missing possessions, written statements from visitors, whatever you can, a PS should keep investigating, especially if they get multiple reports.

Gabriel Mizrahi: But again, you do have to be prepared for your brother-in-law to [00:45:00] defend his wife to a PS if they interview him.

And you have to be prepared for a PS to have their hands tied by this guardianship arrangement. So, bit of a catch 22 there.

Jordan Harbinger: It can be, but it's still worth doing. Another option I'd look into see if you can get what's called a patient rights ombudsman involved. This is an independent advocate. Often they're on staff at a facility and their job is to protect the rights and welfare of medical patients.

In some places, this is called a patient advocate, a grievance coordinator, a resident rights officer. Theoretically, they should operate independently and they're legally required to act in the best interest of the patient, not the institution of the guardian, even though they're on the payroll of the institution.

Not totally sure how that works, but my hope is that an ombudsman can visit your brother-in-law and escalate any concerns to state agencies, especially if this facility you mentioned is complicit in his isolation or neglect. No matter what. You know what I'm about to say? Document, document, document.

Everything. Dates, messages, conversations, witness statements, facility conditions, photos, videos, [00:46:00] your brother-in-law's statements, inconsistencies in his wife's reports. If you ever get a chance to challenge the guardianship, you're gonna want meticulous records because the judge has to go, what reason do I have to overturn a decision that I've already made?

And if it's like, I swear none of this is true, he's gonna be like, get outta here. But if you, if you're like, here's a 13 page dossier where she told these people this and that wasn't true, and she told those people that, and that wasn't true, and then she said this and that wasn't true, here are the documents.

He's gonna go, ah, okay. I've been bamboozled and I don't like that. Judges do not like being bamboozled. I'll tell you that. Look, I'm gonna give it to you straight though. This is gonna be hard. It's gonna take some time, and it makes my blood boil that your brother-in-law might have to suffer in the meantime.

He really is paying the highest price for all of this. It's just devastating this poor guy in your poor family. I mean, he's watching Toby McGuire movies For God's sake. Want somebody think of the man,

Gabriel Mizrahi: somebody think of the Netflix queue. You guys should definitely include that in the documentation. I think the judge should know that he's being forced to watch all of Toby McGuire's over.

Jordan Harbinger: Imagine a judge just throwing the file across the [00:47:00] room at, uh, opposing counsel.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I was on the fence about his skulling open for nine months, but when you mentioned Toby McGuire's ra, that's really what put this over the edge, truly devastating. I'm gonna rule in someone else's favor and this is, this is horrible.

On the other hand though, as sad as your brother-in-law's situation is. Let's just remember, he does have a roof over his head. Perhaps not the greatest roof, but he has some level of care, a leaky roof. Yeah, he finally did have that necessary procedure, thank God, although it was very late. I mean, he deserves so much more.

You know, he's not like wasting away in an attic somewhere. So while you do all of this, I would also try not to torture yourself unnecessarily. I mean, the only thing that you can do practically is channel all of this concern and anxiety and rage and love for your brother-in-law into pursuing these options.

And you gotta keep looking for ways to love your brother-in-law however you can. And I realize that your means are limited because it sounds like his reality is being shaped by his wife's narrative basically. Every visit from you and your [00:48:00] family, every conversation he has with you guys, every time you know your sister-in-law, shaves him.

Every little ritual, every memory you bring up, those are gonna be lifelines for him,

Jordan Harbinger: for sure. That'll keep him connected to who he really is and who truly cares for him as well.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So let's talk about you now. You are, I don't know how to put it, man. You're going through it. Yeah. And you have been for a while it sounds like.

I am so very sorry to hear about the cancer scare and the business stress. You know these feelings of being forgotten or not prioritized in your marriage and you're going through all of that on top of your brother-in-law. I mean, this is pretty extraordinary.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, man. It's a lot for one person to go through this is overwhelming.

Yeah, and I'm just reading the letter.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm really glad to hear that you sought out therapy. Of course. I hope you stuck with it. I'm glad you're finding a few different ways to take care of yourself. So look, a couple things. First of all, it sounds like your wife is often torn between what her family wants and what you want.

And I don't know where she is these days, you know, we don't know what she's going through herself, how she feels about the marriage, what she really [00:49:00] wants. I mean, there's probably so much more information, but it sounds like it can be hard for her to say to her family, something as simple as, listen guys, I'm really sorry, but that night is Michael's birthday.

Can we find another night to do the shower? 'cause I wanna be with him on his birthday or you know, I'm sorry to leave you guys with the dishes, but I made a promise to be home by eight. I'm gonna be home by eight. Or you know, sorry, mom and dad, I know you're going through a tough time, but we need just a few days away together.

So we're gonna do this trip and I'll see you next week. Your wife has a big family and there is a theme in this letter of certain people in the family asserting their needs over other people's, or perhaps your wife capitulating to other people's interests over her own, which is interesting.

Jordan Harbinger: Or look, to be fair, maybe it's not malicious, it's just how it is in a big family.

When you're an in-law, like our friend here, you just get the short end of the stick a lot of the time. I, I don't know. Fair point, but I do get the sense that your wife is putting her family first in a variety of ways, and I feel for her because it's a stressful time. Something tells me she either isn't great at drawing some basic boundaries with [00:50:00] them, or, I mean, I feel bad saying this, but is she avoiding something with you?

Maybe. I

Gabriel Mizrahi: mean, the real issue, of course, is how you and your wife are talking about all of this. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like you guys are talking all that much. I mean, how are you resolving these conflicts? How are you helping each other understand what you need? It made me really sad when you said that the weekend trip falling apart was maybe for the best and that your wife would've let you down anyway.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. That one hit like, well, good thing we didn't do it. It just would've been, she would've just blown it anyway. I mean, that's yikes.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I mean, look, you might have good reason to believe that maybe you would've been disappointed if you had gone on this trip in some way, but then I guess I would want to know why you would've been let down, you know?

What is it that you would've been hoping for? How would your wife have understood what you were hoping for? How would she have tried to live up to it or not lived up to it? And just like, where is the disconnect between the two of you right now? Because it just sounds like you guys are not really giving each other the opportunity to work through any of this in a meaningful way.

But also by saying something like what you said in that section. It's interesting because your wife let you down either [00:51:00] way. Whether you went on the trip or whether you didn't go on the trip, she let you down by canceling to take care of her mom. And in your mind, she probably would've let you down if you had gone.

So again, maybe you have some good reasons to believe that. But I just think we have to be very careful with these assumptions that we make because they create a story and the story seems to be, my wife will always disappoint me and I will always be missed or always be forgotten somehow. And if that's the story that you buy into, then that's probably gonna be the reality.

So in a way, you are subtly creating a situation where the thing that hurts you the most is virtually guaranteed to happen.

Jordan Harbinger: Good point. And the way to break outta that story would be what? I'm afraid if we go on this trip, I'm gonna be let down somehow. And I don't wanna feel that way. Can we talk about it?

Gabriel Mizrahi: That's one way to do it. Another way might be to say, look, this weekend trip means a lot to me. I feel it's really important for the both of us. Can we please carve out two to three days and make time to prioritize each other? And can we maybe have a little do-over [00:52:00] of my 40th birthday? You know, can we really catch up?

Like, let's prioritize each other. Let's make it happen,

Jordan Harbinger: right? Maybe also, I know it's hard to leave when your mom's hurting, but can we check in on her while we're away? Can we also trust her to take care of herself for a couple of days? Or maybe let one of your siblings help? Yeah. And also I'm here to talk about all this.

I know it's hard to watch your mom go through this whole thing with your brother.

Gabriel Mizrahi: You can see how these approaches make more room for the two of them, right? They open up possibilities. They don't. Shut them down. Whereas maybe it's for the best, my wife would've let me down anyway. That leaves very little room for them to try things in a new way and come to understand each other better.

So it's just like a fatal complete and then the story gets reinforced.

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Do do, do five, 10 years go by and you hardly talk and there's this buried resentment everywhere and loneliness and who knows? Maybe you separate or you just settle for being unhappy. Mm-hmm. That sucks. I get why this is so hard when you're in a long-term relationship.

These stories, they have a way of growing almost without you realizing it's like mold behind the baseboards

Gabriel Mizrahi: and it takes a lot of sunlight to, uh, disinfect these [00:53:00] corners. Yeah. Of a relationship for sure.

Jordan Harbinger: It really does, man. It can be scary to go right at it and be like, Hey, I'm not happy about this. This isn't working.

I'm angry, I'm lonely, I'm sad. I don't feel like a priority. It's hard to be accused of being a heartless workaholic, whatever it is. I don't wanna feel that way. I wanna figure this out together. But if you don't do that, and by the way, they both have to wanna do that for this to work. But if you don't try, this just gets worse.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I also think there's some work for him to do to process the distress and the sadness of his brother-in-law's situation on his end, and also his hurt about the marriage, and find a way to not let that impact his business quite as much, because that's part of being a good leader too.

Jordan Harbinger: You know? I really relate to that particular stress of his being responsible for other people's livelihoods and their families.

It is a huge responsibility. Yeah. It's something that most people don't fully understand. And I manage a team of what, like eight people. This guy's managing a hundred people. That is a ton of responsibility. There's a lot of weight on your shoulders.

Gabriel Mizrahi: And it's one that's probably heightened by being a man.

I think.

Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, the whole provider thing for sure. The

Gabriel Mizrahi: provider [00:54:00] thing. But also it can be a lot harder for us guys to say, you know, I don't feel like a priority. I feel invisible. Yeah. You know, being alone on my birthday after you said that you would be home, that really sucked. It's, it's vulnerable to say that

Jordan Harbinger: that really hits, I, I really feel for him here.

Being left alone for a major event or a big milestone, like turning 40, I mean, look, in a way it's just a birthday, but in another way it's a big deal. Especially if your spouse said, I will be there for dinner. I will tell you when I got married, I know you flew in the same day, so I'm not talking about you.

'cause you kind of came like, you squeezed me in. But um, on my wedding, I, I woke up and I was, a bunch of us went to breakfast and then I was like, great, alright, there's like six hours to the wedding, like what are we gonna do? Hang out. And every like my dad's like, ah, I'm going back to the hotel, I gotta get ready.

And other people were like, I need to go rent a suit. 'cause one of my best friends, Tim, he came at the last minute and took some other guys' spot 'cause he wasn't supposed to come and the other, you know, blah blah blah. And then other people who were there were like, I gotta go do this, I gotta go do that.

So I sat at home and I literally checked my email and social media on my wedding day 'cause I had [00:55:00] nothing to do and no one was around.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Really?

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Yeah, I didn't know this. It was, it was kind of a freak thing. 'cause of course my family was all in town, but they were busy. And other people were like, yeah, my flight gets in in three hours or my flight gets in in an hour and then we go and like get dressed fast and come.

So it wasn't like we had planned this whole morning. I just kind of assumed that after the breakfast somebody would be around and nobody was around. And I just remember being like, I. Wow. This reminds me of all my birthdays growing up. 'cause both my parents worked and my birthday was usually not on a weekend, so I usually was like in school and then alone on my birthday and it really hit, this

Gabriel Mizrahi: is such a sad story.

I'm so sorry. I'll

Jordan Harbinger: say now as an adult, I don't like Christmas. I don't like my birthday and I don't like other events that other people love 'cause it just makes me feel lonely as crap. Even if there are people around. I just want the day to be over and it's sad 'cause it's Christmas or it's sad because it's my birthday, but I'm like, I hope no one remembers.

I still have that feeling.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I'm so sorry that that happened to you, bud. Yeah, it, it's funny to think about that because when I went to your wedding, we were friends for [00:56:00] what, a few years at that point and we weren't that close. We hadn't hung out that much. It was kind of early days for us.

Jordan Harbinger: It was early days.

I mean, we were friends for like seven years. I don't

Gabriel Mizrahi: remember this at all and I must not have been there. Yeah, must have been because I flew in in the afternoon. But just know if we had a do-over on your wedding i'd, I would take you out for, appreciate it. Eggs or whatever we can do as you

Jordan Harbinger: are. Here's the thing though, like it's not even, it didn't have to be that way.

I could have easily, I should have made actual plans. That's what I think this guy might also be doing, is he's, there's a lot of assumptions here that are doing a disservice. What I should have done is gone, okay, there's a breakfast. What am I doing after that? Who can I hang out with? Where should I go?

Should I go to the hotel and just kick it by the pool and then get ready? You know, instead of just sitting around, I was like, in my suit for seven hours. I was just sucked. You know? It was just like in my wedding suit for seven hours sitting there like getting creases in my shit. So this guy's also making another set of assumptions, right?

Like, oh, she should know this, or she should know how upset I am. And it's like, no, you gotta do something about that man.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Right? How do you communicate to the people in your life what you need so that they can be there in the way [00:57:00] that you need? That's kind of a skill,

Jordan Harbinger: right? Like, I'm all wha I'm feeling sorry for myself, and it's like, no, I played a part in this too.

You know? I did. Mm. But I also know that articulating that out loud to other people as a man, yeah, it's embarrassing. Like I'm doing it to, uh, hundreds of thousands of people right now. So that's a, that's something. But I, I would've felt weird saying anything if everybody was busy. I didn't wanna text everyone and be like, I'm lonely and bored guys.

Like that's, I don't know. It's just something you just don't do as a guy.

Gabriel Mizrahi: So the loneliness that our friend here feels is probably caused by a number of things, right? To your point, his personality, his way of going about resolving this stuff, his history, what he's dealing with in this moment in his life, his gender perhaps.

But also, let's remember, he doesn't have his beloved brother-in-law anymore, the brother he never had. And that is really hard. It's deeply sad,

Jordan Harbinger: and that is probably making everything harder. So you have a few next steps. Fight for your brother-in-law. Collaborate with your wife and her family to come up with a plan, present a united front, coordinate all your efforts, and if there are people in the family who disagree with you guys, like the one brother who gets to [00:58:00] visit tough kishka, you can't fight for what's right without creating some waves.

Plus, you might need that guy if he's allowed to visit. He is like your inside man, and I would make an effort to talk to your wife, take some chances, articulate how you feel, invite her to fill you in on what she is struggling with. I think you're both going through some very intense stuff, and if you need help, definitely consider couples counseling.

It can be a game changer. And of course, keep taking care of yourself, man. Talk to your therapist, talk to a couple friends, get good sleep, exercise, do a couple kandra every morning or whatever. I have an image of you as a highly driven, responsible, self-sufficient guy who carries the world on his shoulders.

There are virtues in there and there are flaws, and it's time to make some changes before you really do a number on your body and your mind and on your relationships, because there's a lot you can't control in this situation. These are things you do control, and that's how you can show up for everyone else as well as possible.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this. Sending you a big hug, man. Take care. You know what's worse than a Toby McGuire [00:59:00] movie now? I mean not much, but not taking advantage of the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Delete Me right now.

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All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast. They're searchable. They're clickable. Over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. Consider supporting those who support the show. Alright, now for the recommendation of the week.

Gabriel Mizrahi: I am addicted to Lit Fella.

Jordan Harbinger: My recommendation of the week is a super fun, active game experience.

It's called Activate Games. Jen and I have played this in London. We played it in San Francisco. Uh, CH fan, Mitchell Smith wrote in and gifted us a certificate to play, which is very nice. Thank you so much. It's for adolescents and adults. It's not just like adult stuff. In fact, it's mostly kids when we go there, but whatever.

It is super fun. There's like light up floor tiles and you have to avoid getting hit by the red ones while you stomp on the blue ones and the green ones are safe. And then there's [01:03:00] also like trivia where instead of just answering the questions, you have to shoot the basketball through the right colored hoop to hit the answer.

So there's a dual challenge there. There's laser mazes where you have to crawl through, like active laser kind of thing, shooting at you to make sure it's, it's like a something out of a oh oh seven movie. There's all these different versions of each game. It's really fun. You get a little bit of a workout if you want to, and Jen and I are just hooked on this.

We'll go and play for an hour and just be like dripping sweat and then go out to lunch. I, you should really check it out if it's in your area. Activate games and it's great for a big group if you're kinda like, uh, I've got a group of 10 people and we gotta do something and then we're gonna go to dinner.

Activate games is something you should check out alongside. It's sort of in the vein of escape rooms, but it's less cerebral and more athletic. Okay, what's next?

Gabriel Mizrahi: Hey, Jordan and Gabe, I'm 22, just graduated college and have around $50,000 in a brokerage account and $30,000 in a Roth IRA. A year ago, I had $150,000 in my brokerage account, but I spent [01:04:00] about a hundred thousand dollars on travel experiences and personal growth.

Peru, Aspen, Costa Rica, Italy, Hawaii, learning how to surf, exploring LA where I'm moving in less than a month, working on my style and pushing myself socially. After years of social anxiety, I believe these experiences made me a better person in ways I never got from school and work. I used to be socially anxious and rigid.

Now I'm more grounded. I have real confidence and I find it much easier to connect with all different types of people. The trips have given me new perspectives, gratitude, aspiration, empathy, humility, presence, emotional depth, sense of self. I've also been able to refine and experiment with myself.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow.

Okay. It sounds like quite a journey you've been on. This is a huge transformation, man. Well done. Amazing what travel and a lot of hard work can actually do. Eh, that said,

Gabriel Mizrahi: a lot of this growth probably could have happened without the spending or the time away from working.

Jordan Harbinger: Interesting. You know, I [01:05:00] wonder if that's true.

Maybe it is. Hey, totally fair. But there is something very powerful about leaving your home country, challenging yourself like this out in the world. You definitely don't need to spend a hundred K to have those experiences all the time. But I wonder if the same thing would've happened, I don't know, sitting behind a desk for a year in your hometown.

I don't think so.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Now that I'm entering a full-time job and thinking about starting my own real estate development and construction company, one day I'm feeling the urge to go back to full-time grind mode, which is what put me in the financial situation that I had earlier.

Jordan Harbinger: Wow. Okay. So that means you actually made most, if not all of that money you had.

That is hugely impressive, man. I was kind of thinking like maybe somebody died and gave him a bunch of money and he spent it on growth. Good investment. Look it, it's amazing what dollar cost averaging can do when you're investing. Huh?

Gabriel Mizrahi: I can't tell if I made a shortsighted mistake by spending that much, or if I gave myself something more valuable.

One side of me feels like the money has just been converted. The other side feels regret and disgust for letting go of a nest egg that [01:06:00] at this age would've unlocked so many opportunities in the future. Did I blow it or did I invest in something else that will compound just like my stock portfolio? Did I give myself a huge gift or was I just a young spend thrift?

Jordan Harbinger: Hey, great question. So as you can probably tell, I am a huge fan of having experiences like this, especially at such a young age. I would not at all be the person I am today if I hadn't traveled a ton when I was younger, and there are so many awesome ways to grow as a human being. Travel's just one of them.

And like I said, you definitely don't need to drop a hundred grand in order to develop as a person. In fact, in my experience, traveling on the cheap is often the most formative and rewarding. But hey, look, this trip you did, especially at 22 years old, the impact it had on your personality, your mindset, your identity, it really does sound profound, my man, all of these qualities you mentioned, you really cannot put a price on them.

The person you become in your twenties, in your thirties, that largely determines the trajectory of your life. That's when you [01:07:00] really, you get to sculpt yourself. You create this foundation, and plus all of the science shows that true satisfaction, true happiness, long-term, it comes from experiences and not things.

So did you blow it? I mean, it sure doesn't sound like it to me. It sounds like you've got a pretty good ROI return on investment from all of this, and you got the ROI early on when it came at a lower opportunity cost, and you have longer to enjoy the benefits. Like, yeah, you could have saved up and done this in your fifties and it wouldn't have been a large amount of money and blah, blah, blah, would've grown at interest when you're 20.

You have no real responsibility. Trust me, I thought I had responsibility in my twenties and then I, I have kids now. It's not even close. It's nothing even close. And I have a company, I gotta pay people. I can't just be like, you know what? I'm taking a year long sabbatical, bro. I gotta go to Indonesia. That is just unrealistic.

If you put all these assets to work, if you show up to your career with this ambition and the empathy and the humility, if you invest in people with your newfound depth and presence, it's, it is gonna pay massive dividends. And not just [01:08:00] financially, although that's of course a big part of it. You're also gonna have more meaningful relationships.

You're gonna have a much more interesting lens on the world. You're gonna have more spiritual depth. They're all connected, of course. So yes, I do think you invested in something that will compound over time. You didn't just piss this money away. But how much this investment pays off, and it's gonna depend on how consciously you apply these qualities and how consistently, which really comes down to your habits and your systems and how you continue to cultivate yourself.

Once you settle back into your life in the states or wherever you are, you go back into full-time grind mode. If you start working and you lose your connection to all this stuff, which is kind of easy to do. I remember when I was working in corporate, it was like this. I only saw my office. I only thought about work.

Like if you forget to take a genuine interest in people, if you stop challenging yourself, if you stop being playful, if you start obsessing exclusively about your freaking Schwab account and you lose the wonderful humility and depth, that's when the travels will stop paying off. So I would shift your thinking here a little bit.

Instead of asking, oh my God, did I just blow a [01:09:00] hundred K on traveling? I would ask, I spent a hundred K on traveling. That is a significant investment. How do I make the most of it? As I enter this new chapter of my life, how can I honor the investment that I made in myself? Because the money is already spent.

Man, how you internalize what you learned and apply it, that is what you actually have control over.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yes, that is so well said. And hearing his story, I have to say is very inspiring as I begin these travels, even though I'm in a very different life phase from his. But you know, my only caveat to all of this is if part of the reason that you're asking this question is that you feel you could have been more disciplined with your money, maybe, maybe you know what was worth spending money on and what wasn't worth spending money on, and you have a couple regrets, that is something to keep an eye on.

You know, I don't think we're encouraging you to be reckless, especially if you want to be an entrepreneur. You want to build real wealth. You said that you feel regret, but you also said you feel disgust, which is a very strong word. And I just wonder what exactly makes you feel disgusted about the investment you made in yourself, given how profound it was.

You know, was it just the sheer amount of money, which I can [01:10:00] understand? You clearly value it and it's not a small amount of money. Also, maybe you were a little spend thrifty, or maybe you had some meaning attached to this money, maybe because you worked hard for it, which is beautiful. Or you managed to accumulate it at such a young age, which is a big deal, and maybe not having that money anymore, even though you got a lot out of it.

Maybe that feels like, I don't know, maybe there's a hit to your identity or chips away at the accomplishment somehow. Just a few things to consider, because I do get the sense that how you feel about this money now is about more than just the number in your bank account.

Jordan Harbinger: But then we're back to the same idea.

It's all about what you do with that awareness, right? Kicking yourself for a mistake, eh? Not gonna get you very far. Not making that mistake in the future, making different choices, valuing your money better, that's gonna get you somewhere. I mean, dude, I wish I could tell publicly all the dumb investments and mistakes I've made with money, but we don't have that kind of time.

Gabriel Mizrahi: Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: But when I look at it, I go, okay, I probably learned a million over time. I've learned a million dollar lesson from losing X number of dollars. Or I've learned a multimillion dollar lesson [01:11:00] lesson or a priceless lesson from losing a million dollars. I mean, that is very possible. I've talked about dissolution in my previous business.

I've talked about bad investments in the stock. I mean, it's kind of cliche at this point, but I don't really regret most of those things. Like would I do them again? Hell no. But like

Gabriel Mizrahi: when you take that lens in a funny way, that can also make the mistakes money well spent.

Jordan Harbinger: Absolutely. So you can read Ramit sat books all you want, where he is like, invest in index funds.

Don't pick stocks. And you're like, but I'm gonna pick this stock. And then you're like, oh my God, now I'm not picking stocks anymore. Lemme tell you there's a sting that's not gonna go away for a while. So I'm gonna do things right from here on out. And it's like, oh, thank God I could afford to learn that lesson.

But look man, you're in a great position. You're 22, you are just starting out in your career spending a hundred K at 22 in order to mature and evolve when you have decades to build your wealth. That is very different from spending a hundred K at say 55, depending on the person. Of course, Gabriel. I don't know about you.

I probably had $175,000 in student loan debt or something like that after college. Wow. Did I learn more from traveling, which cost me way less than that. [01:12:00] Yes. Yes. Look, I had a law degree after that too. That was helpful. But like, am I really using that? You know, if I had to do it all over again, knowing I would be where I am now, which is impossible, of course, would I spend that money going to college and law school, or would I just travel and live abroad?

I mean, I think we all kind of know the answer to that. Mm. Interesting. But man, given your ambition, you're lust for life, your track record, it sounds like there's a high likelihood that you're gonna build this wealth back and you're gonna do just fine. All you gotta do is stay connected to what you learned and keep growing.

And you might wanna keep traveling here and there just to stay in touch with this mindset. Keep expanding. I'm excited for you, man. Keep up the great work. I wish you an amazing life. Let's meet up sometime in a place where neither of us can read the menus.

Gabriel Mizrahi: EDC, apparently.

Jordan Harbinger: Yes, exactly. I will. I look, the reason I can't read the menus at EDC is decidedly different from the reason I can't read the menus in Portugal.

I'm just going to, uh, leave it at that. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out on our newsletter. Wee bit wiser. It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from us to you delivered to your inbox most [01:13:00] Wednesdays. I know some people are like, I'm not getting it anymore. Gabe is the, is just, you know, he, we write these things together and he is a lazy bastard, so we've skipped a couple of weeks.

He's sitting there avoiding scorpion bites on his junk in the jungle.

Gabriel Mizrahi: It's just so hard to type those newsletters when you're pulling 37 trunks of tuxedos to the jungle, you know?

Jordan Harbinger: That's right. Yeah. You're yelling at your man servants much faster. Gentlemen, we're almost there, so we're, we're gonna be back on it soon, but if you wanna keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

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Hit us up friday@jordanharbinger.com. We're here to help and we keep [01:14:00] every email anonymous. Go back and check out Jefferson Fisher if you haven't done so yet. Great conversation there. The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network. The circle of people I know, like, and trust.

I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our Six Minute Networking course. It's a hundred percent free. It is not gross. It is not schmoozy. You can find it on the Think If It platform@sixminutenetworking.com. These drills take just a few minutes a day. I really wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago.

You gotta dig that well before you get thirsty, folks, build relationships before you need them. You can find it all@sixminutenetworking.com. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers discounts, ways to support the show, all at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi. This show is created an association with PodcastOne. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadas Sidlauskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own.

I am a lawyer, but I'm not a good lawyer. I'm not your lawyer, so do your own [01:15:00] research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we've rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. What happens when the only way to survive is to lie so well, you forget who you really are. FBI veterans, Scott Payne went undercover with one of the most dangerous biker gangs in the country and almost didn't make it out.

JHS Clip: This is the way I was trained, and this is what I think. Anytime you are something that you're not pretend to be something that's opposite of you for a long period of time, especially in deep cover, generally one or two things is gonna happen. You're either gonna slip up and they're gonna catch you or you're gonna become it because there's so many horror stories and undercovers, it sucks that the same mistakes are being made today that were being made in the eights.

You got a small department, you got somebody that's running the undercover, but that person is also the case agent who [01:16:00] is gonna get promoted if the case succeeds. I'm not saying people are gonna do the wrong thing, it's just a bad foundation, I guess people is kind of my business, even as an investigator.

At the end of the day, you need to be able to sit down with somebody and have a conversation with 'em and gather intelligence, get information, because if all else fails and computers shut down and phones, that's great. It's all good stuff, but. It's all human intelligence and you just need to be able to talk to people.

You gotta be believable. And this is where a lot of people think about undercover. And when I'm out training and speaking, I mean, I'll ask, what do you think undercover is? Some people say acting. I go, okay, what else? You think it is lying, pretend to be something you're not. The true definition of undercover work is you're forming relationships that you're most likely gonna betray.

That sucks if you look at it that way, but you need to be able to figure out a way you're gonna do it and rationalize it in your mind so it doesn't have an adverse impact on you.

Jordan Harbinger: Go inside basement strip searches. A brotherhood built on betrayal and the [01:17:00] psychological damage that still lingers on episode 1120 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.