1142: Cannabis Redux | Skeptical Sunday

1142: Cannabis Redux | Skeptical Sunday

This transcript is yet untouched by human hands. Please proceed with caution as we sort through what the robots have given us. We appreciate your patience!

[00:00:00] Jordan Harbinger: Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I am here with Skeptical Sunday co-host comedian Michael Regilio. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life.

And those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, especially here on Skeptical Sunday. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers on Sundays. Though today, whichever day you're listening, it's skeptical Sunday.

This is where a rotating guest, co-host, and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as acupuncture, astrology, recycling, toothpaste, crystal healing, diet pills, energy drinks, weddings, the death industry and more. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, we've got some starter packs, which are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion negotiation, psychology, disinformation.

Cyber warfare, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit Jordan harbinger.com/start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Now you're probably going cannabis, I swear I saw this in the feed earlier. This is our second attempt.

We were still finding our feet with Skeptical Sunday. That was when we did round one of cannabis. At the time, we'd only done a handful of these things, and I wanted to redo this once since it was downloaded so many times. I got a lot of feedback about it. Positive, negative, great episode, too corny, all this stuff we got put on blast from listener emails and that's how we learn and get better.

So round two. With cannabis. Here we go. Growing up in the eighties and nineties, I was told that cannabis was the devil's weed. Once it avoided at all costs, kids were dared to just say no. We were scared with over the top ads. Today some say cannabis is a cure, all from everything from anxiety to chronic pain.

So what is the truth? Are the alarmists, right in their belief that cannabis is the downfall of humanity, or are the herbalists of today onto something when they push the medical flower? Comedian Michael Lio is here to give us the straight dope on weed and let us know if it's a medical miracle or the hype is just smoke and mirrors.

Hi, Jordan. Hi Jordan. Ah, I see what you did there. And we're gonna be easy on the puns as I promised in the top of the show. But no, I'm a busy man with a lot to do, so I am not high in this particular moment. And like I said, I've been told never to touch this stuff, so I. Well

[00:02:31] Michael Regilio: there actually nowadays there are some that will tell you that it's a shame that you're not high.

As you said, cannabis today is purported to have many attributes that are good for you. This, of course, is in stark contrast to just 15 short years ago when we were told that our brains on drugs were not unlike fried eggs in a frying pan.

[00:02:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, I remember that. Ed with the very serious guy who says, this is your brain, holds up an egg and then cracks it in the pan and then says Any questions like, oh man, this guy.

He means business, but they didn't say cannabis, man. They said drugs.

[00:03:03] Michael Regilio: Ha. Yes. But the problem being that for the last 53 years, we have classified cannabis as a schedule one narcotic that's the same as heroin, meth, coke, all the bigs of the drug world. Now, the Biden administration did finally reclassify cannabis as schedule three, which means it incurs much lower penalties for possession and use.

For example, Tylenol with codeine is schedule three. I don't know anyone doing hard time over possession of Tylenol codeine. So clearly this is an improvement, but it's actually a long road before cannabis is officially reclassified.

[00:03:40] Jordan Harbinger: I remember I had my tonsils out as an adult and they were like, we're gonna give you codeine.

And I'm like, I think I've heard of this. Doesn't Tylenol have this? They're like some Tylenol. And they're like, it's a controlled substance. And I was excited. And also like they take it real serious. They give you a special pad to go and get it from the pharmacy. So I took this thing and I went to the pharmacy and they gave me what I can only describe as a bucket of codeine.

Yeah. I was like, really? There's a lot in here? And they're like, yeah, and if you need a refill, we can refill it. I'm like, how long am I gonna be out? 'cause this is quite a bit. And they're like, oh yeah, you're gonna be under for like three weeks. I never touched the stuff because it scared me a little. And also, I guess I have a high pain tolerance.

This was like a terrible sore throat. But my doctor who took my tonsils out said it was worse than having kids. I. Would say, just having seen my wife recover from having kids, that is definitely not true for me or wasn't true for me. Maybe my mouth just healed fast, but I just thought it was hilarious.

The absolute gasoline can of codeine that they gave me to recover from this operation, and it sounds like I could've sold this stuff and the penalties would've been okay. Could've maybe added a couple thousand dollars to my top line revenue that year, but I ended up dumping it down the sink.

[00:04:52] Michael Regilio: They gave me morphine when I broke my rib, and they only gave me three pills.

To this day, I still have one left because I was so freaked out about having something that addictive.

[00:05:02] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, I don't know what to tell you about that. I guess if you have a really bad headache one day, just eat a quarter of it and see if it still works. We probably shouldn't be talking about this in this podcast at all.

But anyway, yeah, all the fun stuff is on Schedule One. Even back in the days of just say No, it seemed ridiculous that marijuana was grouped up with that. Cannabis has always just had a

[00:05:23] Michael Regilio: bad rap. I'm gonna just say no to that notion actually, because cannabis historically always had an excellent reputation, and it's been around for like a really long time.

The first recorded use of cannabis was in 27, 37 BCE, or as historians say, a long ass time ago.

[00:05:40] Jordan Harbinger: Easy on the academic jargon there. It's an audience of layman, but wow, what is that Like almost 5,000 years of cannabis. Pretty impressive. Wow.

[00:05:50] Michael Regilio: Yeah, and legend has it that Emperor Shang of China believed to have ruled around 5,000 years ago.

So you nailed it. Prescribe cannabis tea. The earliest Hindu sex in India use cannabis for religious purposes and stress relief. Ancient physicians prescribe cannabis for everything from pain relief to earaches. In fact, Hindus believed that the God Shiva brought cannabis to earth and not just for humans to use.

Turns out the God Shiva was also a big fan of this plant. God needing to get

[00:06:21] Jordan Harbinger: high is a little strange. And by the, is she the one with all of the hands? Because I feel like that would probably come in handy when rolling a joint.

[00:06:28] Michael Regilio: Absolutely would. Yeah. But look, different cultures consumed cannabis in different ways.

Some cultures mixed it into food. In India, they made a drink called Bang.

[00:06:38] Jordan Harbinger: Bang. Definitely sounds like a dodgy energy drink you get at a truck stop.

[00:06:43] Michael Regilio: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I would be willing to bet that in our lifetime we will see a sketchy energy drink called bang.

[00:06:50] Jordan Harbinger: Yes.

[00:06:50] Michael Regilio: But in 1440 BCE Herid wrote about cannabis steam baths In the second century Greek, Dr.

Galen prescribed cannabis as medicine and Chinese doctors use cannabis for surgery.

[00:07:02] Jordan Harbinger: I'm hoping they used it on the patient. The patients used it for surgery. Okay. Exactly.

[00:07:07] Michael Regilio: I assume so. Although, interestingly enough, that was one of the PSAs of the 1980s, that today it plays more like a Saturday night live sketch.

A surgeon stands over a patient smoking a joint while the narrator opines. If your surgeon was smoking pot, would you still consider it

[00:07:23] Jordan Harbinger: harmless? That's a pretty silly point. 'cause if your surgeon was drinking Jack Daniels during the surgery, would you still consider it harm? No. I don't even want that guy texting while performing surgery.

No, exactly.

[00:07:36] Michael Regilio: Interestingly enough, the Chinese made cannabis into a kind of wine. It's versatile. During the Middle Ages, Muslims in the Middle East use cannabis, which is very interesting because the Koran strictly prohibited alcohol, but there was no mention of cannabis. So is it okay for Muslims to

[00:07:51] Jordan Harbinger: smoke pot or is it Okay, drugs are haram and alcohol's kind of the only thing we have around.

So we're gonna name that one. I'm curious if it's okay or not. I've never heard that before.

[00:08:03] Michael Regilio: Yeah, me neither. And I did some research, but let's just be clear. In the olden days we're referring to, it was actually Hashish that they were smoking, which is basically a potent extract of cannabis. The first known mention of Hash is in a pamphlet published in Cairo in 1123, accusing.

Nazar Muslims of being hashish eaters. So does that work? You can eat it all, right? I don't know. Maybe, but it may be Just was an ancient insult being like your mother eats Hashish. I'm not sure I see either way. Hash was big business with Morocco and Afghanistan being the biggest exporters of this potent concoction.

As far as the modern Muslims go, it's still debated. Most people agree that using cannabis for recreation goes against Islamic law, but using it for medicinal reasons is a different matter. In 2014, the grand told Saeed Mohammed Ek Hasani Rouhani of Iran Close. I'm pretty sure it's

[00:09:00] Jordan Harbinger: Sayad Mohammed Sadek Husseini.

Rohani.

[00:09:03] Michael Regilio: Really close. He issued a fowa or a legal religious ruling in it, he stated, spiritual plant medicines and psychedelics are halal for Shia Muslims with supervision.

[00:09:18] Jordan Harbinger: So for people who don't know what halal is, it's basically Muslim kosher. And if for people who don't know what kosher is, it just basically means the religious law says it's okay to eat or consume or to use.

So with supervisions, basically an imam has to watch you tripping. It's interesting that it's psychedelics too. I wouldn't expect that.

[00:09:36] Michael Regilio: Look, if you're gonna trip, I guess you gotta do it with you're imam. Both the French and the British, by the way, had their colonists growing cannabis in the new world. So our country

[00:09:45] Jordan Harbinger: was founded in some parts on weed.

[00:09:48] Michael Regilio: Yeah. And other parts on slavery and misogyny.

[00:09:52] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. Yeah, because I forgot about that part for a sec. I don't know if we can group those things together. Maybe that's what we're trying to do. I don't know.

[00:09:57] Michael Regilio: No, I don't think the anti-cannabis people probably would, but I would say they are. I think smoking a little pot would make you less racist.

And misogynist myself, I

[00:10:06] Jordan Harbinger: feel like our research bears that out, but we'll get there.

[00:10:08] Michael Regilio: Yeah. In the 1700 doctors widely prescribed cannabis as medicine in the Western world, the Irish Dr. William O'Shaughnessy popularized its use as pain medicine, and it probably works about as well as Irish whiskey. Maybe last a little longer.

Yeah, which probably worked better than what I tried smoking in high school, because back then cannabis was illegal, which gets me to the first person to outlaw cannabis. It was actually Napoleon Bonaparte when the little French General learned his soldiers had brought cannabis back from Egypt and were getting high.

He outlawed it. So no cannabis for the French. That's correct. Napoleon was onto something though he may have been a little harsh on Hashish, so to speak, but people in his time realized that drugs and alcohol use was problematic. In 1868, the British passed the first drug laws banning some drugs. Around this time, people thought the cannabis use caused mental illness.

This actually, as we'll see later, that's still debatable. So are we still debating Reefer madness? You remember that whole thing? Yeah. Well, not so much debating it as looking at the data. That's a better framing of it right now. In 1894, the British were concerned about cannabis use in India. In lieu of keeping those they colonized.

In line, the British established the Indian Hemp Drug Commission. The thing is, they found that moderate cannabis consumption was not detrimental and found no link to mental illness. So no reefer

[00:11:39] Jordan Harbinger: madness. Besides, you'd think if you're trying to subjugate a population like the Brits were doing in India, you'd be fine if they were stoned all the time and lounging around and shoveling snacks into their mouth and just like philosophizing, I.

About dumb things like you do in your dorm room, in college instead of, I don't know, marching on your colonial forces, wanting human rights and all that stuff.

[00:12:00] Michael Regilio: Yeah, excellent point. But it does indicate that the tide was turning, in fact, the smoke was starting to blow in the other direction as far as cannabis reputation went.

I. So much so that in 1906 the US government passed the Pure Food and Drug Act, which said cannabis was dangerous and must be labeled before being sold. And because history loves irony in 1913, I. California became the first state to ban growing cannabis. Wow. Well, I guess California was super conservative back then.

Maybe that has to be it. Maybe. But look, the, the whole country was going that way because in 1914, the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act passed, and Congress tightened restrictions on drugs in America.

[00:12:43] Jordan Harbinger: It really was a free for all. I know there was cocaine in the cola around then, maybe in heroin and cough syrup, so maybe tightening restrictions on narcotics.

Wasn't that out of line at the time? It's not like they only picked on cannabis

[00:12:56] Michael Regilio: during that period. There was also the Mexican Revolution, which brought many Mexicans north to the United States and. Just like any group entering America, they were met with racism and xenophobia.

[00:13:07] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. The Statue of Liberty says, send me you're poor and you're tired.

But it does not say anything about people actually being nice to them when they get here.

[00:13:15] Michael Regilio: Yeah. I guess that fine print is on the back of the statue.

[00:13:19] Jordan Harbinger: Yes, and it's probably in French. I always find it almost comical that. Irish and Italians who you could never tell apart now in New York. Right. Or like you're one of them and it's like, really?

You guys could be brothers for all. I can tell one guy's slightly more pasty than the next one. Guy lives in Hell's Kitchen and the other guy lives three blocks south and it's, you're the enemy. It's just so dumb. It was so ridiculous.

[00:13:43] Michael Regilio: Yeah. Well, speaks to the tribalism that is inherent in human beings, I think, and how arbitrary it all is as well.

Yeah, for sure. People aimed their ire at Mexicans. One of the things that people attacked was that many Mexicans smoked their cannabis, and they didn't call it cannabis. They had their own word for it. A scary foreign sounding word. They called it marijuana. The racists seized on this and demonized both the Mexicans and their marijuana.

And by 19 25, 26 states had outlawed the evil marijuana.

[00:14:17] Jordan Harbinger: I guess if they couldn't outlaw Mexicans and you know, they probably wanted to try back then, they could take away their fun. And I wonder how things would've been different if Mexicans had called it like Freedom Flowers instead f Fleeing to America to enjoy their freedom flowers that they brought.

Yes.

[00:14:34] Michael Regilio: Branding is everything. Indeed, and that might well have worked. Certainly worked with Freedom Fries. The next blow for cannabis came with Harry Anslinger. Okay. He was the first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and. A racist piece of garbage. And he had cannabis directly in his crosshairs.

[00:14:54] Jordan Harbinger: So he had a problem with cannabis because he didn't like Mexicans also. Oh

[00:14:58] Michael Regilio: no, Anne Slinger was an equal opportunity, racist, but don't take my word for it. Take his, now, this is a little rough, but here's a quote I found from him. Quote. There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers.

Their satanic music, jazz and swing result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others. End quote.

[00:15:35] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, make sure we know that those are not your words. So it does bear out. Marijuana makes you not racist and cool and sexy. Which candidly sounds like an argument for marijuana, which I assume was not this guy's intent here.

I don't know. Do you think podcasters count as entertainers asking for a friend? Friend?

[00:15:54] Michael Regilio: Oh, by the way, Anslinger was not finished. There is also this little gem quote, reefer. Makes Darkies think they're as good as white men. Wow. Maybe we stop quoting this guy. He, yeah, this guy is terrible. Holy smokes. Yeah.

No more Anslinger quotes. Okay. Mind you, cannabis was still legal in some places, but it was on its way out. Anslinger famously collected wild and exaggerated stories about cannabis use and then placed them in the press. And in 1936, the film you've already referenced came out Reefer Madness. Now it's time for Sponsor Madness.

Madness Madness. We'll be right back.

[00:16:38] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is sponsored in part by no story Lost. Ever thought of Turning your parents or loved ones, incredible stories into a stunning coffee table book Meet, no Story Lost. This is not a run of the Mill DIY project. We tried it out for my mom and I. I have to say I am blown away and I don't say that about many things.

This is like the Rolls Royce. Of a personal storybook creation. No need to nag your folks to jot down their memories. No story loss Lays out the red carpet. They handle interviewing them with a professional writer. They write really well. They edit it really well. They organize family photos and they bind everything into a gorgeous hardcover book.

They don't just like sort of print it off. It's customized with your color scheme of choice. Watching my mom pour over her life story, her eyes wide, big smile on her face. Reliving all those precious moments. She actually said, I'm excited to read this. Who knew I was so interesting? I mean, really, this is priceless.

She even joked that she likes herself even more now that she's read it, and I, I really just, she meant it. It was amazing. And the best part is no story lost can create a book in just three months. This is not a heavy lift, especially for your loved one. They're so confident you'll adore it, that they back it up with a solid guarantee that you fall in love with the book or they make it right, or give you your money back.

How is that for top-notch service?

[00:17:51] Jen Harbinger: Go to no story lost.com and use code Jordan for two extra copies of your book and a free upgrade to video interviews, a $350 value. That's no story lost.com code Jordan.

[00:18:01] Jordan Harbinger: This episode is also sponsored by Shopify. You know, when you think about these brands that are absolutely crushing it, like Alo, Allbirds, skims, you probably picture the cool branding and the marketing, but the real secret sauce, it's the business behind the business that makes buying easy.

And for millions of brands that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, period. It is the home to the number one checkout on the planet, which means fewer abandoned cards. Way more of those sweet, sweet to Chings you actually care about. And here's the kicker. Shop pay can boost conversions by up to 50%.

That is not a typo. 50% more people actually hitting by. Instead of wandering off mid scroll because their kids spilled juice on the iPad. And bottom line, if you're serious about growing your business, your platform's gotta sell where your customers are on your website, in your feed, in person, wherever, and businesses that sell more, sell on Shopify.

Simple as that.

[00:18:45] Jen Harbinger: Upgrade your business and get the same checkout aloe uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period@shopify.com slash Jordan in all our case. Go to shopify.com/jordan to upgrade your selling today, shopify.com/jordan.

[00:18:59] Jordan Harbinger: Lemme share a little behind the scenes info that you might not know using our promo code.

It doesn't just get you a discount. It really does help support the show. I know you're not totally ignorant of that, but we don't earn a commission from the sales. A lot of people think we do that. But when companies see that people are responding to the ad, that sponsor is more likely to continue their partnership with us.

So if you decide to sign up for something, please use our code. It's Jordan a lot of the time, but not always. Definitely check the deals page. It is a double win. You get a great deal. You help keep the show thriving, and thank you for the support I. So in truth, it's kind of a funny movie, right? With teenagers, they take a single puff off a joint and immediately murder their whole family.

So they run into oncoming traffic, they jump out the window, and perhaps worst of all, they listen to jazz music. I.

[00:19:43] Michael Regilio: Yeah, that propaganda worked. And not surprisingly, the following year, Congress passed the Marijuana Tax Act, which was written in part by Anslinger himself. The other force behind the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act was the petrochemical industry, the DuPont Chemical Corporation in particular.

[00:20:00] Jordan Harbinger: DuPont, who makes a lot of products in my garage. You remember the stain master carpet ad that was all over TV in the eighties? You couldn't get away from it.

[00:20:09] Michael Regilio: Yes, that DuPont In the 1930s DuPont invented cellophane made from petroleum as well as nylon made from petroleum Cellophane was set to become the standard packaging for most American goods and nylon standard for most American fabrics.

Around the same time, Henry Ford is promoting Kemo energy, which fuses industrialization with raw materials. The best being cannabis really. Why

[00:20:31] Jordan Harbinger: did Ford consider cannabis the best raw material? I've never thought about it like a thing you could make things out of. I.

[00:20:37] Michael Regilio: Oh no. Tons of things are made outta cannabis.

Hemp is what they refer to as the fibers the cannabis plant produces, and the outer fibers of the cannabis plant can be used to make clothes, fabrics, ropes, and packaging all better than nylon. By the way, the inner fibers of the cannabis plant can be used to make wood for construction.

[00:20:56] Jordan Harbinger: So, let me guess.

Ford was not homeboys with the DuPonts or Anslinger and had a different opinion about all this stuff,

[00:21:02] Michael Regilio: right? Cannabis was suddenly a huge threat to the DuPonts and other business moguls like William Randolph Hurst, the printer. Yeah, the guy that owns the Hearst Castle, which is, don't get me started. I hate the Hearst Castle.

Really? Who hates the Hearst Castle? Me because you go on the tour and they're just talking about how like he took these ancient pylons out of Egypt. He basically robbed ancient treasures and shoved them into a castle that he just hoarded to show off to his rich and famous friends. And then when they couldn't pay the bill on this, they dumped it on the California taxpayers.

Now we own. I did not

[00:21:40] Jordan Harbinger: know that. I didn't know. He just alluded and plundered. I thought he just had a really nice house that he built into a castle and now we can get tickets and go see it. That's really tacky.

[00:21:48] Michael Regilio: It is really tacky. And because of whatever agreement they have with the state, the film about him that they play you there, calls him like this great man, and then you look into him and you're like, I think you're using that word subjectively.

Okay,

[00:22:00] Jordan Harbinger: great. Is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this particular film.

[00:22:03] Michael Regilio: Gotcha. And so William Randolph Hurst owned most of the newspapers and paper mills. At that time, and he viewed cannabis as competition. The US Secretary of Treasury, Andrew Mellon, that name sounds very familiar to me as well. Yeah, Carnegie Mellon.

So Mellon was heavily invested in the DuPont company and feared cannabis costing him money. I. But they were in luck because Mellon's son-in-law was none other than Anslinger. So Mellon was able to get Anslinger easily appointed to the new Federal Bureau of Narcotics, which developed the Marijuana Tax Act.

So the

[00:22:38] Jordan Harbinger: Treasury Department basically went to war with weed over private money. So these guys had investments and they were like, let's use government power to protect them. Exactly.

[00:22:49] Michael Regilio: Pretty much so. Hearst Melon and Slinger and the DuPonts had a lot of reasons to hate cannabis and a lot of those reasons were, like you said, financial.

[00:23:00] Jordan Harbinger: So big business is just looking at the bottom line, which candidly, that is Reefer madness more than anything else that we've spoken about so far. That's ridiculous. I had no idea, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[00:23:10] Michael Regilio: Right. Reefer Madness. Yeah. Business as usual is what we should call that kind of reefer madness except Henry Ford, but he was in the minority.

DuPont was the number one shareholder in Ford's major competitor, general Motors. Even the Rockefeller family of Standard Oil viewed cannabis sourced ethanol as competition. Henry Ford's first Model T used cannabis to make the acrylic skin upholstery and ran on cannabis-based ethanol. Not for the Marijuana Tax Act.

We would today, at the very least, be seeing a line of Ford cars run on biofuel.

[00:23:46] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah. For the last 150 years almost as well, which is, I don't even want to go down the rabbit hole of thinking about how different things would've been instead of oil rigs spilling in the Gulf. We would just have massive amounts of.

Weed being grown and then turned into fuel and then used for the Wow. The course of history would've been changed by this. We wouldn't have needed as much plastic 'cause we would've hemp plastic vehicles. Wow. It's almost depressing to think about how different things would've been.

[00:24:15] Michael Regilio: Instead of tapping into oil wells, we would've been growing plants which breathe in CO2 and breathe

[00:24:22] Jordan Harbinger: out oxygen.

So we would possibly not even have the same sort of climate issue as we have now. Okay. So besides Ford, was there other opposition to criminalizing cannabis? Yes, of course.

[00:24:34] Michael Regilio: The other opposition to the legislation was from William Woodward from the American Medical Association.

[00:24:40] Jordan Harbinger: What do those guys know?

The American Medical Association. Never heard of it. What is it? A bunch of doctors.

[00:24:44] Michael Regilio: What he said actually reads rather logical by today because he said no evidence existed that cannabis was dangerous and that outlawing it, quote loses sight of the fact that future investigations may show that there are substantial medical uses for cannabis.

End quote. So he was of course defeated. And on October 2nd, 1937, a man named Samuel Caldwell became the first person in American history to be arrested for selling cannabis.

[00:25:14] Jordan Harbinger: Sorry, Sam, it would seem you have started a tradition since then as well. Yeah, a big tradition

[00:25:20] Michael Regilio: 23 million people have followed and continue to follow.

Here's the thing, our government knew all along that cannabis wasn't nearly as bad as the hype. Take the findings of the LaGuardia report. In 1939, New York Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia commissioned a report on the effects of cannabis. The New York Academy of Medicine issued an extensive research report declaring that contrary to earlier research and popular belief, the use of cannabis did not induce violence, insanity, sex crimes, or lead to addiction.

Or other drug use.

[00:25:57] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, but what about listening to jazz music? Did they get to the bottom of that one finally, or, or what?

[00:26:02] Michael Regilio: Sadly, that part remains inconclusive, but Anslinger trashed the report, calling it unscientific. And don't forget, I. Anslinger had a powerful ally, William Randolph Hurst, who put his media empire to work, demonizing

[00:26:17] Jordan Harbinger: cannabis, demonizing cannabis and plundering historical artifacts.

You gotta love that. A politician who stands to make a boatload of money off of demonizing something can just take a report from the Academy of Medicine and be like. Nah, I don't like that science, so I'm just gonna say it's not scientific because I, no one's gonna say anything. And I also have this very loud microphone publisher guy who's gonna say whatever I want him to say, and they just trash this.

At least Hearst wasn't against cannabis for racist reasons, just pure greed. I'm not actually sure that it's better, but these guys are terrible Objectively.

[00:26:53] Michael Regilio: American history. Yeah, man. We got some skeletons in the closet. In 1951, Congress passed the Bogs Act, which created a mandatory minimum for all drug crimes.

In 1956, the Narcotics Control Act passed, which gave stricter mandatory sentences for cannabis related crimes, and just like Prohibition did for alcohol, these laws were making cannabis more popular. Is that true?

[00:27:18] Jordan Harbinger: Was it the laws that were making cannabis popular? Because it seems like this just caught fire on its own because it's fun.

Look, there's no way to say

[00:27:27] Michael Regilio: for sure, but there's certainly some correlation. When the US government prohibited alcohol drinking went up when they did. The same with cannabis, came out of the jazz clubs and into the counterculture enter the sixties. In the sixties, both the counterculture of the hippies and the American soldiers in Vietnam became big fans of cannabis.

Congress then passed the Controlled Substance Act, which made cannabis a Schedule one drug incurring all the same harsh penalties as heroin, cocaine, methamphetamines, et cetera, as we talked about at the top of the show,

[00:27:59] Jordan Harbinger: right? And that sure makes things unnecessarily difficult because now these people aren't just sort of minor offenders that can be rehabilitated.

They're like scary junkies.

[00:28:08] Michael Regilio: Oh absolutely. And doing scary serious time as we'll see in a bit. At this point in our history, we're just getting to the next bad guy in this story of cannabis. Richard Nixon. Nixon a bad guy. You don't say this guy. He was

[00:28:22] Jordan Harbinger: prolific with the crap he did wrong. I gotta say, I gotta hand it to him just one thing after the other.

[00:28:27] Michael Regilio: Yeah, he was good at being bad. Yeah. In 1972, the Schaffer Commission founded by Richard Nixon found that cannabis was, in fact not as dangerous as other drugs and recommended it be decriminalized. I. This, of course, did not play to Nixon's hand because arresting hippies was his way of controlling the protests against the Vietnam War and quashing opposition to his administration.

So instead of decriminalizing cannabis, he did the exact opposite. He declared a war on drugs and established the Drug Enforcement administration, or what we call the DEA.

[00:29:04] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, yes. I feel like we need a done, done, done. Hold on. This has been decidedly non cheesy, the episode, so I wanted to add something like that in there.

Alright, so he knew what was right and he did the opposite just for political gain, which is classic politician move right there.

[00:29:20] Michael Regilio: Yes, it absolutely is. And there's this rather damning quote from former Nixon Domestic Policy Chief John Ehrlichman that. Pretty much puts everything into perfect focus. He said, quote, you want to know what this, the war on drugs was really all about.

The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that had two enemies. The anti-war left and black people, you understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities.

We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did. This guy said that

[00:30:21] Jordan Harbinger: on record. Yeah. Holy. Moly, that is so blatant. That is nuts. I'm shocked and I didn't think I would be shocked by anything coming out of the Nixon administration, but that is just as black and white as it gets.

We wanted to make being black illegal, but we knew we couldn't get away with it, so we decided to just associate them with drugs and then arrest people. That is crazy. God, that is messed up. Next level, messed up. Okay. I used to work in Detroit and I worked with a lot of these people who are in a group called Nation of Islam, and they really don't like white people and they really, really don't like Jews.

And it was a weird relationship because I didn't understand that and I was just like a normal, nice person to them. And they were also quite nice to me because I was a kid. I was like 18, 17. And they would explain these crazy conspiracy theories to me. They were like, we know you're not a part of it, but do you know that the CIA drops crack into black neighborhood?

It would be like one thing after the other that was just kookier than the next thing. And this is one of the things that they had said, and they were just not making this one up. This one was real. I remember them telling me a lot about this alongside the how bad Jews and white people were. But this definitely adds a layer.

Of color and credibility over those conversations.

[00:31:34] Michael Regilio: Yikes. Wow. It really happened, and actually it gets worse because in 1975, the Supreme Court ruled it permissible to give out sentences for cannabis offenses for up to 20 years in prison. I am

[00:31:50] Jordan Harbinger: legitimately angry about this. This is horrible. I wonder if you add up how many people are in prison just for cannabis if it's like thousands of years of human lives that we're just paying to incarcerate.

It's crazy.

[00:32:04] Michael Regilio: Yeah. That is part of what Biden did to reclassify cannabis as schedule three doing with the reclassification. Re-looking at a lot of people's sentence for cannabis over the years. So there might be some amelioration of that, but we'll see. But let me add this in as we're talking about these harsh sentences that existed.

African Americans are arrested for violating cannabis possession laws at nearly four times the rates of whites. Yet both groups consume cannabis at roughly the same rates. And while I'm on it, even though cannabis is legal in many states, cannabis. Today is half of all drug arrests. Someone gets arrested for cannabis every 58 seconds in America.

This is despite the fact that the majority of Americans live in a state where cannabis is legal.

[00:32:56] Jordan Harbinger: My God. Okay, so I'm looking at something right now. There's a huge page on this called Last Prisoner project. They're trying to get people not locked up for marijuana 'cause it's such a wasteful thing and I can't read the whole page while we're doing the show.

But there's more than 40,000 people locked up at any given time in the US and they say, we don't know. It's more than that, but we don't know by how much. Like it could be a hundred thousand and they're just not sure. Because it's really hard to get down to brass tacks on this, but imagine 40,000 people are in prison and each one of those people costs us like 30 to $40,000.

I mean, it's just hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars spent incarcerating these people over decades and all the lives we're in. And of course those people's earning potential. I mean, it's just disgusting. Okay, so I'm, I've gone from sad to angry to even more.

[00:33:43] Michael Regilio: Angry. Yeah. Look, it is rage inducing.

In 1980, Reagan was elected and conservative values came back into vogue, and not like in a lovable Alex p Keaton kind of way, but Nancy Reagan's just say No campaign. The Dare Movement and the partnership for a Drug Free America became completely mainstream. Law enforcement cracked down even harder on cannabis with the previously mentioned.

Racist disproportionality. It's mourning in America

[00:34:13] Jordan Harbinger: and everyone's in jail for marijuana or weed or cannabis or whatever we're calling it for consistency's sake.

[00:34:20] Michael Regilio: But it really was a new mourning in America at that point because attitudes changed at that point, and they changed fast. I don't know if it was just the bad hairstyles of the eighties that people were running away from, but beginning in the nineties, a real pushback against these draconian cannabis laws began to.

Flower and bloom. Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. And in 1996, California passed Proposition two 15. The first state to outlaw the cultivation of cannabis became the first state to re legalize it medically in this case.

[00:34:53] Jordan Harbinger: What a turnaround for California. No surprise. I guess California turned nice and blue from, what was it, 1913 when they made it illegal to 1996.

Yeah. And now it's turning nice and green. Yes. Nice

[00:35:06] Michael Regilio: and green. Look, and we all know what happened next because since then, 38 states allow medical cannabis and of those 23, allow recreational use.

[00:35:16] Jordan Harbinger: Okay, so this might seem a little late in the show for this, but I have to do it. What is cannabis? Everybody knows in a broad sense what it is, but what makes a person high is probably what I should be asking.

[00:35:27] Michael Regilio: Okay? So actually the more appropriate question is what are we,

[00:35:33] Jordan Harbinger: it sounds like we're getting all Sam Harris over here, but okay, let's see what you got. Maybe it's more why does cannabis interact with us the way it does? Yes, the scientific route. I can dig

[00:35:44] Michael Regilio: it. Let's do it. Okay, so the answer is the endocannabinoid

[00:35:49] Jordan Harbinger: system.

I. I feel like I've heard about that. Maybe in a biology class or a dispensary or something. What is the endocannabinoid system? It's like a human body anatomy form. Right, exactly.

[00:36:02] Michael Regilio: It's a biological system in the body that helps regulate and balance key bodily functions like mood, energy, balance, and appetite.

It runs completely through our brains and our bodies. So it's like the nervous system receptors and all that stuff. Yes. The endocannabinoid system regulates functions through naturally occurring cannabinoids produced inside the human body. These natural cannabinoids interact with cannabinoid receptors, of which there are many.

So I'm with you so far. So cannabinoids also exist in other places in nature, such as cacao, which is why dark chocolate makes us feel a certain way. It's interacting with our cannabinoid receptors. So is being a chocoholic kind of a real thing? Yes, it actually is. In fact, I have my six month chip from Chocoholics Anonymous.

Sadly, they made it out of chocolate and I ate it. So I'm back to my week one chip. Look, kickout isn't the only plant that produces cannabinoids. Yeah. Is it cannabis? Correct. Cannabis has over 100 different cannabinoids, but for our purposes today, we're just gonna be talking about the big two THC and CBD, so I'm

[00:37:15] Jordan Harbinger: pretty sure everyone's heard of those.

If you listen to podcasts and you haven't heard about CBD, I'm envious that you haven't heard 10,000 commercials for CBD. I won't run them on my show, but. I hear them all the time. Yeah,

[00:37:26] Michael Regilio: that's interesting. And look, that's C, b, D, but I'm pretty sure that everyone knows what THC is. It's tetrahydrocannabinol and everyone knows that THC or tetrahydrocannabinol is the one that gets you high, and C, B, D or Cannabinol is the one with purported health benefits.

[00:37:42] Jordan Harbinger: You know what brings euphoria without inducing psychosis? The fine products and services that support this show, we'll be right back. This episode is also sponsored in part by Nord VPN. We just got back from a family trip to Shanghai, which I'll tell you more about on the show, but lemme tell you, trying to get work done in China without a VPN, uh, uh, forget it.

Luckily we had Nord, VPN, so not only could I access all the sites I needed for work and yes, even sneak in the occasional episode of a show that's not available outside the us. But it was fast and smooth sailing the whole trip. And Nord, VPN isn't just about dodging digital roadblocks. It protects everything.

Your passwords, your banking info, your entire online identity, especially when you're bouncing between airport wifi, hotel wifi, random cafe wifi, basically the sketchiest wifi situations possible in the middle of a major World, city, and the threat protection feature. Protects you from malware trackers, phishing sites, stuff you don't even realize is lurking in the background.

You can use one Nord VPN account on up to 10 devices. So we had it running on the phones, the laptops, the tablets. Bottom line, if you travel, if you work online, if you stream shows, you even just wanna not get hacked at a coffee shop. Nord VPN is a no brainer.

[00:38:45] Jen Harbinger: To get the best discount off your Nord VPN plan, go to nord vpn.com/jordan harbinger.

Our link will also give you four extra months on the two year plan. There's no risk with Nords 30 day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box

[00:38:59] Jordan Harbinger: I've got. homes.com is a sponsor for this episode. homes.com knows what when it comes to home shopping. It's never just about the house of the condo, it's about the homes.

And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools nearby parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers, the in-depth information they need to find the right home.

It's so hard not to say home every single time, and when I say in-depth information, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student teacher ratio.

They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. homes.com. We've done your homework. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment, support our amazing sponsors.

I told you how all that works before all the deals. Discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable over at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. If you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code, feel free to email meJordan@jordanharbinger.com. It is that important that you support those who support the show.

Maybe it's just in California, or maybe I'm being targeted by CBD ads 'cause I'm in California. I don't know. There's a corner coffee shop here downtown. You can order a freaking latte. With CBD at the coffee shop and there's PET CBD that's for sale, I believe. At the same place. It's just everywhere.

[00:40:32] Michael Regilio: Yeah.

No, it's CB, D is absolutely ubiquitous in California. I, you probably can get a Happy Meal with CBD in it, but it's probably actually those products you're talking about, they're probably not doing anything because you need 100 grams of C, b, D for your body to absorb any of it. And products like lattes and teas and whatever you're giving your dog that you buy at the store, those tend to have around 20 grams or so.

So are the effects mostly psychosomatic, like placebo kind of thing? Essentially? That's what my research showed. But yeah, I've had a few, and it feels like it's more than psychosomatic, but the point is our bodies and our brains already have the receptors in place to interact with cannabinoids. The thing is cannabinoids like THC are way more powerful than the ones our bodies make.

Thousandfold more powerful when consumed. Psychoactive components are absorbed into the bloodstream and crossed the blood brain barrier. These effects are quick, way quicker than, say, drinking a scotch and soda. Cannabis when smoked enters the brain within 30 seconds.

[00:41:39] Jordan Harbinger: Oh man. Yeah, cannabis for when you wanna get high and you don't have a second desp spare.

But also, that's probably why I don't like smoking it, because one, I use my voice. Smoking things isn't a good idea, but two, it does not make me feel good. It hits me like a hammer. It's like I just had five scotch and sodas and it's just all at once.

[00:41:56] Michael Regilio: Actually, that's interesting you say that because what kind of high you experience depends on the strain of cannabis you've taken?

[00:42:02] Jordan Harbinger: Oh yeah. You're referring to indica and

[00:42:05] Michael Regilio: sativa. Yes, of course I am. And you are right. The two main strands of cannabis are sativa and indica. There's actually also a strain called root, but it's so seldom used that we're just gonna skip it. Sativa and iica give different highs because they interact with our brains differently.

Let's start with sativa. Sativa plants are taller than indica and have longer leaves. Sativa is considered more of a stimulant. Users feel more alert and focused when on it compared. Janica Sativa is a mood elevator and makes people talkative, and some call it a head high. Sativa does this because it's activating receptors in the prefrontal cortex of the brain.

Sativa can reduce stress. It is believed to have some pain management properties and gives users a heightened sense of importance towards their activities.

[00:42:54] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, that sounds about right. It's interesting you said head high. What kind of other high is

[00:43:00] Michael Regilio: there? I don't get it. There's head high and then there's body high.

Indica is considered a body high. It relaxes you physically. That's why it's colloquially called inco. Indica is more of a sedative. This is because indica suppresses the amygdala part of the brain and also shuts down the hippocampus. The indica variety of cannabis can lead to defects in memory. Indica is often used for sleep disorders and anxiety relief.

[00:43:27] Jordan Harbinger: Ah, relief from the leaf. I've heard that before. So these are your options. You either get talkative and possibly really annoying or you turn into a couch potato.

[00:43:35] Michael Regilio: Not anymore, in fact, because it's actually pretty rare to find pure sativa air indica these days. We live in the age of hybrids through plant genetics.

Growers have souped up that boring old cannabis and cross sativa. It indicated to many hybrids that have qualities of both plants. To be honest, for

[00:43:53] Jordan Harbinger: years I thought that people who said, oh man, you don't like weed. It gives you crippling anxiety. Oh, you're smoking the wrong stuff, man. I really thought those were just hippies who could not wrap their mind around the idea that this wasn't for everyone.

That me panicking and trying to calm my mom about homework I forgot to do in the seventh grade and telling her about how high I was, was not a good idea at the time. But maybe they were onto something. I just really didn't think it was scientific. I thought they were just dorks. Weed dorks.

[00:44:22] Michael Regilio: Yeah. And the different strains do have different effects, but it's possible that marijuana in general is just not for you.

But while we're talking about the genetic manipulation of cannabis, it's worth mentioning that they've also souped up the amount of THC, and that might be what's freaking you out. Whereas the THC and the cannabis we discussed at the top of the show might have been around the low single digits modern cannabis.

Is over 20 and 30% THC. Okay,

[00:44:50] Jordan Harbinger: so it's not your father's pot. 'cause I never have a mild reaction to it unless I have an edible that's one milligram and I'm just like, I'm slightly relaxed now. It's been a long, long, long, long time. But if somebody passes me a J and I try it, I'm just like, I have to go home now and curl up in the fetal position.

Not fun.

[00:45:06] Michael Regilio: Yeah.

[00:45:07] Jordan Harbinger: I think we've all been there before. So not your father's pot, like I said. Right. It's different now.

[00:45:12] Michael Regilio: Now look, my father's pot was kept in a coffee can above the fridge and was loaded with seeds and stems. Yeah, he was getting hosed by his dealer for sure. That's true. But as far as modern pot goes, growers have gotten so good at manipulating the plants that there are all new categories of hybrids.

Type one, type two, and type three. Uh, okay. So what do those types mean? I've never heard of this. Those refer to the THC to CBD ratio. Type one has the most, THC and a little CB, D type two has less T, h, C and more. C, B, D and type three has very little T, H, C, mostly C, B, D. So I

[00:45:49] Jordan Harbinger: suppose now is a good time to ask what is CB, D?

Actually, I know it's sold everywhere. It's everywhere. We talked about that, but what is the actual compound?

[00:45:57] Michael Regilio: Okay, so C, B, D, just like THC, is a cannabinoid only CB, D doesn't get you high, but has other distinct effects. Many believe CBD has many great medical uses.

[00:46:10] Jordan Harbinger: So you said many believe, does that mean that there's no solid evidence to back up these claims?

Is the science kind of new? What's going on

[00:46:16] Michael Regilio: here? Okay, let me start by saying that there is a very effective seizure medicine on the market today that is derived from CBD. So yes, CBD has medical merit, but according to Margaret Haney PhD, professor of Neurobiology at Columbia University Medical Center.

Leading cannabis researcher. The claims are quickly outpaced by the research because cannabis is still a Schedule one drug, though this stuff is actually really hard to study. It seems like with the number

[00:46:46] Jordan Harbinger: of people using legal cannabis, the government should just make it easier to study. Who cares if we need to learn more about this stuff?

It's not like people aren't gonna use it if it's illegal for Karen out loud.

[00:46:55] Michael Regilio: Well, I mean, most medicinal claims aren't always backed up with hard data plus. Most of this stuff is just subjective. As we talked about the placebo effect. If you think it's helping you sleep, it helps you sleep. If you think it's calming you down, it calms you down.

If you think it's helping you write good poetry, I.

[00:47:16] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, you write really bad poetry.

[00:47:18] Michael Regilio: Got it. Placebo can't help you there. Okay, fine. That part is true, but nothing can help you there. True. But the fact remains that we're in the realm of the brain body connection and it's the intersection of things, we still have a lot to understand.

It's still a murky area for medical science. Let's list a few proven positives of cannabis and CBD. There's firm evidence suggesting cannabis treats the side effects of chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis, spasticity, chronic pain, sleep disorders, neuropathy, appetite loss, and inflammation.

[00:47:52] Jordan Harbinger: I gotta say a shohan sent me a bunch of supposedly CB, D only gummies that were really mega dosed.

And I took one because the show fans sent it to me and it was all wrapped nicely as from a real company. I thought CBD is mostly a scam, but this is a mega dose. We'll see what happens. This thing knocked me the hell out, man. I kept them for sleep aids and it is like I can be over caffeinated or anxious or whatever and I eat half of one of these things and it absolutely puts me down.

Maybe it's not just CBD in there because it is made in California, so it's not synthetic or whatever, but holy moly. Anyway, those pain relieving and sleep inducing benefits, that's all good stuff in my estimation. You got a sore neck, you can't sleep, you got back pain. Take some C, B, D, especially after like 60 years old, what do you got to lose at that point?

Right?

[00:48:39] Michael Regilio: What do you got to lose? That's all true. Okay, so now let's talk about the bad things that are associated with weed. Most of the issues we're going to discuss are from chronic use, and chronic use is considered to be more than twice a week.

[00:48:55] Jordan Harbinger: Got it. Chronic use twice a week sounds pretty tame compared to a lot of the stoners I know.

I mean, the guys back in college who were doing this stuff, it was wake and bake. All the way through the day. It was twice before lunch. Yeah,

[00:49:07] Michael Regilio: no, I know the dudes you're talking about actually. Okay. A little sidebar because I bet these guys all fell into this before we get onto the really bad things. You won't be surprised to learn this somewhat benign effect of chronic use, stoner voice and stoner laugh.

They're real and documented.

[00:49:25] Jordan Harbinger: Stoner voice is a real thing. I mean, you hear it on Scooby-Doo, but it's a real thing all over the go. Come on man. We all know what I'm talking about. I. That's an actual medical condition. I'm very surprised. I thought that was just like de rego or stoner and they were leaning into it.

[00:49:42] Michael Regilio: No, no, no. Chronic users experience disruptions in motor circuitry, which leads to stoner voice. It's not just Hollywood. It's actually real. Wow.

[00:49:51] Jordan Harbinger: Funny and interesting, but not exactly life changing. Negative effects. You just sound dumb and checked out.

[00:49:57] Michael Regilio: You do. True. But there are real negatives. So let me emphasize this.

The most negative effects from cannabis come from when you smoke. At what point in the brain's development you use cannabis? That does make more sense, right? Let's start with the most crucial in your mother's womb. It is just a bad idea to smoke pot when you're in your mother's womb. Okay? So don't be a stoner baby.

Okay. Little joke aside, that's obviously the mother who's using cannabis experts say it's really bad. THC crosses the placenta Fetuses like adults have cannabinoid receptors and cannot handle THC or CBD. Experts are very clear on this. Don't use cannabis or CBD when you're pregnant, like none. Zip zero yet shockingly.

[00:50:49] Jordan Harbinger: Women do it. That is insane. I know women out there who think it's harmless or maybe even good for their baby, or they do edibles instead of smoking, which is, I don't know why they think that's okay. But yeah, that's really bad.

[00:51:01] Michael Regilio: And like I said, the problem is the hype on medical cannabis and CBD is way ahead of the data.

So there are literally people telling pregnant women to take a little CB, D. It's just not good. And if you're fortunate enough to have had a mother who didn't use cannabis. You can still screw up your brain, especially for young men by using cannabis at the other crucial time in brain development youth.

[00:51:27] Jordan Harbinger: Yeah, but that's obviously when young men try cannabis, is it just men or is it men and women? It's gotta be young men and women.

[00:51:34] Michael Regilio: Male brains and female brains develop differently. Young men's brains. It's the prefrontal cortex that develops more slowly, which actually is where one of the things is that we can run the movie forward and look at consequences of our actions.

That's in the prefrontal cortex, which explains why young men not having a fully developed prefrontal cortex do stupid things. I certainly can speak for myself, and it is in youth that most people try cannabis. And I mean, it's fun when you're young to go out and experiment. And in fact, I did it full disclosure.

That's exactly when I was trying cannabis. These effects we're talking about are far worse for chronic use. It can lead to depression and anxiety. In fact, chronic cannabis use makes people four times more likely to experience depression, especially amongst younger people. Studies show that early use of cannabis on a developing mind can lead.

To psychosis at later ages,

[00:52:32] Jordan Harbinger: psychosis. Yikes. That is terrible. I've heard about that. But you never know what's hype and what's not. But yeah, that's not good.

[00:52:40] Michael Regilio: Yeah. And for those who use cannabis as young as 12 to 14, the probability of schizophrenic episodes more than doubles.

[00:52:49] Jordan Harbinger: Ooh. So it sounds like reefer madness in those instances is real.

Do experts understand why that's the case? That's really scary. Schizophrenia is no joke at all.

[00:52:59] Michael Regilio: Studies show that adolescent cannabis use accelerates the thinning of the prefrontal cortex and gray matter. In particular, the more cannabis used, the more impaired those neural circuits are. And we talked about the prefrontal cortex and how important that is.

[00:53:14] Jordan Harbinger: Yikes. So basically say no to drugs, at least until your prefrontal cortex, Foley forms. Yeah, I

[00:53:20] Michael Regilio: mean, I feel hypocritical saying it, but that's a good idea. But here's the good news. If you're over 25, it's all good. Of course, smoking or vaping, anything comes with dangers and chronic use is never a good idea.

But these dangers, the ones we just talked about, they cease to be as serious. But I should mention. That for people who are predisposed to mental health issues or violence tendencies, using cannabis can actually trigger these things. If you have these predisposed tendencies, you should never use cannabis, but this is a low percentage of people.

If you're over 25, it's generally safe to smoke a little pot.

[00:54:02] Jordan Harbinger: In moderation, I suppose. And that is good because adults are gonna be smoking for the foreseeable future as weed becomes more and more legal. Alright, so here is something that I've wondered about. Is there a sobriety test for cannabis? Is there gonna be a weed breathalyzer?

I.

[00:54:17] Michael Regilio: No, probably never. Because the reason the breathalyzer works with alcohol is because alcohol is water soluble. Therefore, the amount of alcohol in the bloodstream or in our breath, it's a very good indicator of just how impaired you are. But cannabis is lipophilic, meaning it lives in the fat cells and there is just no good sobriety test.

So it will be hard to enforce as states legalize cannabis, but. That one minor problem is insignificant compared to all the good those tax revenues will do for those states, which that's really the good news about cannabis.

[00:54:55] Jordan Harbinger: I have to imagine those taxes have the potential to do a lot of good. When you go to a dispensary and you buy legal marijuana, it's like 25% tax on what you buy.

[00:55:04] Michael Regilio: No, it's very high as it should be, right? I'm all for that. And some of those cannabis tax revenue goes to education related initiatives like school construction, school food programs before and after school enrichment programs and public libraries, environmental cleanup, law enforcement and drug prevention programs among actually

[00:55:24] Jordan Harbinger: a lot of others.

That is the promise of legal cannabis though, right? The tax revenue. Love that. Tax revenue from drugs is going into drug prevention programs. That is some delicious, bureaucratic irony right there.

[00:55:35] Michael Regilio: Yeah, and there's also the unseen revenue as well. All the money we're not spending on enforcement court dates and in court in incarceration.

I know I've come off like a bit of a Nancy Reagan in this episode, but I believe the government actually has limited rights when it comes to adults doing what they wanna do in the sanctuary of their own homes. I. Ultimately, I think the war on drugs has been a complete failure,

[00:56:02] Jordan Harbinger: not that surprising since it started with false pretenses and racist motivations, which I didn't even realize.

And I think no one's gonna argue the war on drugs has been a success, that's for sure.

[00:56:12] Michael Regilio: I absolutely agree. I think adults should be free to do drugs or free to not do drugs, but education, that is the key. Thanks, Michael. Appreciate that. Thank you, Jordan. This has been a real joint

[00:56:25] Jordan Harbinger: effort. Okay. All right.

I'm gonna let you get away with one last poll, which we're started at the top. We're not gonna be punny. You got one? That was good. You smoked it. Thank you so much for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday toJordan@jordanharbinger.com. Show notes on the website, transcripts in the show notes, advertisers deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show.

All at Jordan harbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm doing a lot more posting on LinkedIn as well. You can find Michael Lio at Michael Lio on Instagram tour. Dates are up now there as well, and it will be linked in the show notes because as always, nobody can spell Lio.

This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jase Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own, and I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Also, we may get a few things wrong here and there, especially on Skeptical Sunday, so if you think we really drop the ball.

Definitely let us know. We're usually pretty receptive to that. Y'all know how to reach me, jordan@jordanharbinger.com. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. What a master. The art of communication. Charles Duhig, author of Super Communicators, reveals key strategies for enhancing your connections and conversations and this enlightening podcast episode,

[00:58:00] JHS Clip: why do some people manage to connect with everyone else so effortlessly?

And then there's times when I talk to my wife and like, we cannot connect with each other. And it turns out it's just a set of skills, right? Like it's just literally a set of skills that super communicators know and that any of us can learn and become super communicators ourselves. Looping for understanding and has three steps.

The first is ask a question, preferably a deep question. Secondly, repeat back what you just heard the person say in your own words. And thirdly, and this is the one everyone always forgets, ask if you got it right. And the reason why this is so powerful is 'cause it proves that I'm listening to you. It's really easy to stop thinking about how we're communicating.

It's really easy to stop thinking about what's going on until we get in the habit of it. Communication isn't something that happens just one-to-one. Sometimes it's one to many, but the same principles still hold up. You're still having practical or emotional or social conversations. Laughter is actually one of the non-linguistic ways that we connect with other people.

There's been studies that show that in about 80% of the time when we laugh, it is not in response to something funny. It's because we're basically in a conversation and we're saying to someone, I want to connect with you. Nobody is born a super communicator. That's what feels tiring, is when you feel like you want to connect and you can't.

Right? This isn't a behavior, this isn't a personality type. This is a tool that once we learn, we can use when we want to use it.

[00:59:29] Jordan Harbinger: Learn how to categorize conversations, improve active listening and overcome communication barriers to build stronger relationships. Tune in and transform your interactions into meaningful connections on episode 963 of The Jordan Harbinger Show.