249: Kobe Bryant | Dissecting the Mamba Mentality

Transcript for Kobe Bryant | Dissecting the Mamba Mentality (Episode 249)

Jordan Harbinger: [00:00:03] Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always. I'm here with producer Jason DeFillippo. On The Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most brilliant and interesting people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life, and those around you.

[00:00:20] Today's guest is a man of epic proportions, literally. He's one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He spent 20 years on the Los Angeles Lakers and is an 18-time All-Star. The Black Mamba, Kobe Bryant, is on the show today everybody. Today, what creativity and basketball have in common and what Kobe's carried from the court into his new businesses, how Kobe manages pressure in high-stakes situations. We'll also talk about his new books and creative endeavors and you're going to see in the YouTube clips if you're watching us here on YouTube or if you go to that channel after you've heard the interview here, by the way, that's at jordanharbinger.com/youtube, I'm holding and talking about his books. There’s really something special going on here. We talked about basketball and how he studies and models other people especially actors and actresses to gain an edge. In fact, you'll be very surprised at who Kobe draws inspiration from. We also discussed raising hard-working kids and instilling values as a parent. There's a whole lot going on in this episode. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed recording it.

[00:01:20] And of course, if you're wondering how the hell did you get Kobe Bryant it's always a matter of introductions through my network and I'm teaching you how to create networking connections for personal or professional reasons. That's at jordanharbinger.com/course. And that course is, of course, free. Not enter your credit card number free, just free, free. jordanharbinger.com/course. And in the meantime, here's Kobe Bryant.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:45] You untie the shoes?

Kobe Bryant: [00:01:46] Ever since I was a kid, I used to do this thing where I don't tie my sneakers, but then when it comes for game time, I lace them up just like my -- 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:01:53] It's like a ritual.

Kobe Bryant: [00:01:55]  -- digging the dirt type of moment, but now it just feels good on my feet. Keep it loose or whatever.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:01] Yeah, I definitely appreciate that. Now my friend says she sees you at Disneyland all the time. So I was thinking, all right, you're pivoting from basketball to this creative pursuit with the book and the writing and the ponies Disneyland Pride dovetails with that creativity a little bit.

Kobe Bryant: [00:02:17] For sure.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:18] Yeah. So, it seems like storytelling is something you're working hard at. I know you got into writing in high school. It seems strange because obviously it has nothing to do with basketball, animation basketball has no overlap. Is this something that was kind of brewing the whole time? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:02:30] I think so, you know, it's funny. The disciplines are completely different but like the structure of it is the same in terms of the process. The process of writing or crafting the story or novel or film is the same process in the summertime with how you craft the game on how you build your things, your game from day two day. It's the same thing, it's the same kind of blueprint, although you're building two completely different homes.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:02:54] Why is this stuff important to you at this stage in your life? You could do nothing, which I assume is not an option for you, but you could also just kind of chill, and let other people do all the creative work like you seem to not be a backseat type of guy.

Kobe Bryant: [00:03:08] Well, I enjoy it though. I enjoy the process of creation. It's no different than basketball. I enjoyed playing. And I got very lucky in the sense of when I stepped away from the game of basketball, I found something that I love equally so that's why 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:22] Nice. All right. Well you started off -- I know with a ton of pressure expectations put on you to be like the next Michael Jordan, straight out of high school, and I'm sure people ask you how you manage that pressure, but I think probably if I had to guess you put most of the pressure on yourself, it wasn't necessarily from the outside. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:03:39] Yeah, you know like I had goals and I had expectations and things I want to accomplish, and so the outside world could not meet that for sure. I knew I wanted to win five, six, seven championships -- that was my goal. For me to come out and say that, people would think I was a lunatic. So no matter what they said, what they threw at me, my expectations were certainly higher.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:03:59] Why continually do that? It seems obvious to probably to you and somebody like me who constantly likes to -- I wouldn't say necessarily -- beat myself up but it's constantly reigniting the fire under my own ass. It seems a little bit masochistic to keep doing that.

Kobe Bryant: [00:04:15] A little bit, yeah, for sure but you can't control that passion and sometimes have a fire; you need to keep those flames burning. There’s nothing you can do about it. You don't really have much of a choice like you wake up in the morning and you go. Even if you tried to dial it back it'll just build up and build up and then we'll just come out 10 times worse than it was before

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:35] Do you ever try to do that? Like when you were younger. How do you know that it comes out 10 times worse? I mean, it sounds like that happened at some point.

Kobe Bryant: [00:04:42] Yeah, like when you go on vacations, going on vacations. You say I'm going to take my mind off of it. I’m not going to think about it. You can do that for a couple days, three days, or something like that. Then when you get back to it, all of a sudden, it's like things just pour out of you. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:04:55] Your show on ESPN, it's actually called Detail and my friend goes you got to watch this Kobe breaks things down into minute details. I was like okay. I expected you to be like he's going to run up here, and he's going to -- I mean, I don't know. Obviously, I don't know as much about basketball. Or anywhere close as you do but it was lik, “See if he takes a step laterally, if he takes a step 45 degrees this way -- ” And I'm like, okay, this isn’t a level of detail that nobody really looks at for business, for any game and I wonder if you take your business now and you look at all right -- this is the level of detail. I need my creative endeavor because I looked in there for a second. I didn't go in but there's a lot of post-it notes on that wall a lot.

Kobe Bryant: [00:05:33] Yeah. Well, we try to handle things with great care. When you handle things with great care, you have no choice but to look at every single detail. In the books that we create, in the films that we create, we look over every scene, comb through every line. We go through everything. The book, even looking at this book here, you look on the back here, this is the barcode.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:05:53] Oh, yeah.

Kobe Bryant: [00:05:54] All right but instead of just slapping a barcode on the book, you got to make sure that it comes from the world. So how can you design a barcode that's effective and efficient but still designed to fit the part of the world, so going through every single detail is the same thing.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:08] Otherwise you look at the book, it breaks the whole like this is like magical.

Kobe Bryant: [00:06:12] Yeah, you don't want to break the magic. The same thing I do in basketball is the same thing we do here. You got to obsess over every little thing. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:18] Because like by law you got to have probably the price, the ISBN over the barcode, but nobody says it has to be ugly, be on a sticker -- 

Kobe Bryant: [00:06:24] Just slap it on there and off you go. No, we want to make sure we go through everything.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:29] There's even -- I know people who are watching this can't really tell but this is like Astroturf like in golf.

Kobe Bryant: [00:06:34] Prestige material. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:06:35] Yeah, prestige material like you can feel there's a tactile thing. So as soon as the kid or the adult like me or the grown-up kid fix this thing up like you feel -- you thought about this.

Kobe Bryant: [00:06:45] That's exactly right and that's really important too because when parents pick up a book try to decide what book they want to buy for their children or a kid picks up a book, we want them to have the experience of somebody put a lot of thought and care into it. Generally, in the children space, children's book space, you just make books as cheaply as you can make, and then they try them out. But the message we want to come across, we want to get across, is that kids matter. Investing heavily in kids is extremely important -- in fact more important than it is investing in adults, because children are our future. So instead of spending all of our resources and doubling down on the grown-ups, let’s double down on kids.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:22] Did you think about this stuff before you had kids? I just had a kid same age as I think Capri, your daughter, maybe a little younger six week right now.

Kobe Bryant: [00:07:29] Congrats, man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:30] Thank you. It's an amazing feeling. Everyone was he’s going to turn your world upside down. I don't know about you, but I was like, yeah, yeah, okay and then you go whoa.

Kobe Bryant: [00:07:36] Whoa, whoa, wait a minute.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:37] Drive slowly. Right? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:07:39] Yeah. It alters things. Natalia, our eldest is now 16, and certainly changes things. So, like create new stories was really for them because our daughters are athletes and trying to find stories for them. Characters, first of all that don’t look like them, this is close to impossible and then secondly, finding characters that look like them but also athletic.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:07:57] When you say look like them, let's not sugarcoat it you mean African-American women.

Kobe Bryant: [00:08:02] Yeah, my kids are mixed. So, my wife is Latina. I’m obviously African-American, and so finding mixed characters is like needle in the haystack and then when you try -- Half-Asian. So good luck finding characters that have that and then on top of that they're athletes. So we're these stories for children that center around athletes, biracial children, that also intertwine the entertaining fun part of it all which is like magic and fantasy and mystery. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:08:32] It is tough. I do think about that because I obviously grew up like a pretty generic white dude in the suburbs. There was one Asian kid in my school and one African-American kid at my school and they stuck out. Everyone liked them and it was like a special thing sure, but yeah there weren't a whole lot of movies with heroes that look like them, characters that look like them, that weren't just stereotypes and that's not really good for you growing up. My son. He's half Taiwanese Chinese. So, he looks like an old Asian man because he's like 6 weeks old 

Kobe Bryant: [00:09:01] That's awesome. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:01] But there's not a whole lot that's going to look like him. He's going to be like, he can look like Jet Li and be kind of like that but also kind of like nobody else. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:09:10] Yeah, and it's important from my daughter's perspective of me and the only African-American or mixed kid in school. And what does that feel? Like if you're not the only one who's maybe two more. On the flipside of that as well is that the other children, the majority of the children in the school, aren't getting an opportunity to understand different cultural backgrounds either. And so, there's a lack of understanding that takes place on both sides of that equation, which is why it's very important to be able to have diverse characters. So this way we can all kind of better understand each other. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:43] Can you check the levels by the way because he's a little quieter than expert. You're quieter than I expected. What can I say? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:09:48] Not a loud guy.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:49] No, I can't not direct and do -- 

Kobe Bryant: [00:09:51] It’s all good man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:52] I feel like you probably have that same thing.

Kobe Bryant: [00:09:56] I do.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:09:56] I try not to micromanage, but I'm also like -- 

Kobe Bryant: [00:09:58] Yeah, it's easier for me. Basketball is a little different. Here, it's easier for me because I have great people that know what the hell they're doing. I didn’t go to film school. You know what I mean, so there's certain things. I don't know like I don't know production schedules or sag rules or any other stuff. I don't know that stuff. But I have people that do. You trust them to do the best that they can with lighting and things of that nature. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:21] Are you doing a lot of the outside the box thinking like who came up like with the barcode idea 

Kobe Bryant: [00:10:25] That was one of our creatives in here that came up with that idea. My direction is always do not break the magic. We don't compromise that. Do not break the magic. Everything comes from this world, everything has purpose, and everything must be to the best of your ability. So, my job is really to make sure that when you work here you're tasked with challenging yourself to do the best job you can, and that means you have to be honest. Be brave about it, got to be able to look in the mirror and say I can do better.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:10:55] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show. We’ll be right back.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:10:58] This episode is sponsored in part by DesignCrowd. Crowdsourcing, it is how busy people get stuff done in the 21st century and thanks to DesignCrowd, you can focus on running your business and you hand over the reins for the logo, Web design, t-shirt, whatever you need for your company to a pool of over 725,000 designers around the world and what they do at DesignCrowds is that crowdsource custom work based on your specifications. So, you get a bunch of designs and you pick the one you like go to designcrowd.com/Jordan. Tell them what you want. DesignCrowd invites 725,000 designers from Sydney to San Francisco to respond and within a few hours, you get a few designs over the course of three to 10 days. You might get sixty a hundred, I think we got a few hundred, from different pieces from designers around the world. You pick the one you like best and you approve payment to the designer for the final. And if you don't like anything you got, DesignCrowd offers a money back guarantee. Jason. 

Jason DeFillippo: [00:11:55] Check out designcrowd.com/jordan. That's D-E-S-I-G-N-C-R-O-W-D designcrowd.com/jordan for a special $100 VIP offer for our listeners or simply enter the discount code Jordan when posting a project on DesignCrowd.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:12:08] This episode is also sponsored by Capterra. Sun's out but you're inside you're stuck in the office. Don't get stuck in your little chair trying to find software. With Capterra, you can read reviews. You can explore hundreds of categories of software and find the right software for your business in just a few minutes. So, trade that office time for a little more beach time, and wear sunscreen, and find the right software fast at capterra.com/jordan. So essentially what they are, there is a search engine to help you find the best software solution for your business. They've got almost a million reviews of products from real software user's, not like testimonials from some guy who got it for free. You can discover everything you need to make an informed decision. You can review other stuff there as well. There's over 700 specific categories of software from project management to email marketing. They got stuff as specific as yoga studio management software. Yes, that exists. So, Capterra makes it easy to find that solution really, really fast. No matter what your business actually needs millions of people use it. Jen used it to find a bunch of stuff here for our company as well for accounting and all that jazz. And Jason, I know we got a deal for them.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:13:14] Visit capterra.com/jordan for free today to find the tools to make an informed software decision for your business, capterra.com/jordan. Capterra, that’s C-A-P-T-E-R-R-A, capterra.com/jordan. Capterra, software selection simplified.

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:14:08] It's got to be tough working for somebody like you who wants every percent out of everything, but also go “Oh I've got to tell him that this is the wrong decision.” So, you have to build trust with your team so that they can look you in the face and go, “You know what I've seen where your head's at, but that is a bad idea.”

Kobe Bryant: [00:14:24] You know, they generally did it though. If you knew why you're working here, you come into a meeting, you have an idea for a creative. For a cover for example, we sit down and we talk. One thing that I'm a big proponent of is a simple image, a simple clean image. That has a lot of layers to it. Just easier said than done. But that's a mandate. Now I understand a company is what you're looking for and then they go off and they create it just takes maybe a week or two just to kind of get used to the style of how we do things, but by and large, the people that we have here are all obsessives. I don't have to say needle over every detail until it’s right, like that's already in them. So, when he come here to like, oh thank God I can work in the company that's going to obsess over every single detail.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:08] That makes sense you hire for that.

Kobe Bryant: [00:15:09] Absolutely. You have to.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:11] It’s like you picking the whole roster.

Kobe Bryant: [00:15:12] Yeah, we'd go crazy if it wasn't that way. The challenging part is continuing to find those people.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:19] Yeah, I can imagine. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:15:20] Yeah, it's tough. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:15:22] People love to say, oh, I've read this job description. It says you got to be obsessed with quality and detail and you're like, I'm that person, but everybody wants to think they’re that person, but when it gets time like hey, you got to work on the weekend because the feeling of the paper on the cover is wrong and you got to feel 300 other samples. They’re like, “What it's a book, man, chill I got stuff to do.”

Kobe Bryant: [00:15:42] That's exactly right. Well, that’s more why -- why does it matter. It matters because it matters. You know what I mean? Fortunately for us we have people that are like that and now the challenge becomes and as we grow continuing to have those standards, never drop in those standards, and go from there. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:01] I've heard and seen you break down games for example that you've lost in the past, and it seems like you can really detach emotionally. When I listen to something that I do wrong depending on how wrong it goes, I can sit there and sort of cold calculate like a surgeon going through it. But other times I'm beating myself up. I've not seen you do that. You seem like you have an emotional detachment. That's probably pretty healthy when you're trying to get something fixed. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:16:25] Yeah, it comes from one of our coaches in the past, his name is Tex Winter. When we used to watch game films, he was pretty brutal on us as players. But he always said, “I'm not criticizing the person, I'm criticizing the act so remove yourself from that, remove the ego from this process, just focus on the act. The goal is to help us all become better.” And when you do that, you can remove yourself from that, now you can look at actions, and then you can truly improve as a basketball player.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:16:53] I can't remember where this was. You mentioned you studied actors to get a mindset. It was kind of a throwaway line, but I'm wondering who you studied the most. Like who are you watching? You're like, “I love that cold-ass shit from whoever in this movie.”

Kobe Bryant: [00:17:04] Hilary Swank and I had a lot of conversations about that actually. I talked to Kate Winslet about it as well. But we really got into how they build their characters and how they get into character. I've spoken with Larry Moss about that process as well. And there's something to that because like as an actor, you are trained to get into that zone and find that pocket and as athletes the psychology is the same. Sean Penn as well, we had a great conversation about as well. The discipline is different, but the behavior’s the same. Before you start a game, how can you lock in and get into that mental space where nothing else matters -- you're completely locked in and focused on what you're trying to accomplish as an athlete. The noise of the crowd doesn't matter, whether they’re cheering and booing doesn't matter, you just completely locked. How do you do that?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:17:50] It seems like they're on set and when you're on set, you're on the court, but you have feedback from people you don't necessarily want. If you do something wrong, you get all these people giving you negative feedback. You have to be able to block that out. They don't really have to do that. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:18:02] Well, you know, you could say being an actor's there's more pressure involved in it. Because you're dealing with a smaller audience when you're on set. And so, the criticism, it's a one-to-one type of thing when somebody's looking at you in judgement. When you are in a crowd with thousands of people because of the size of it, it tends to diminish the pressure. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:23] It's like when you're speaking in front of a thousand people, it's less personal.

Kobe Bryant: [00:18:26] Right. If we go and have a conversation in a bar in front of a bunch of people that are having their own conversations and every once in a while turn around and looking at us having our own conversation. But now if you walk in and there's two people there doing nothing, but watching and critiquing our conversation, that's a little different 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:43] That must actually happen to you in real life all the time now that I think about 

Kobe Bryant: [00:18:46] Well, now, with camera phones, yeah, I get that a lot man. People just sit there and he's going to do this, and kind of look at me.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:51] So they sit there, filming you, and like I'm just looking at the menus covering my face with my phone. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:18:56] Yeah. It's so annoying.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:18:57] That's so weird.

Kobe Bryant: [00:18:58] So annoying. You just be blatant about it like it's not like I can't see you like doing this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:03] What do you do? Do you must say something or do you -- ?

Kobe Bryant: [00:19:05] Nah, I just let it be.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:05] But I feel like I couldn't eat if somebody was filming me, I'd be like -- 

Kobe Bryant: [00:19:09] Or you just do like the most inappropriate thing ever and get -- 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:12] Yeah hit them. How did he get mustard on his pants? I heard you once actually say you wanted to be the Will Smith of basketball. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:19:21] I don't remember saying that. I must have said it, but I don't remember saying that.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:25] I heard it second hand. I think it was Shaq who said it. Maybe he was just playing but I don't know.

Kobe Bryant: [00:19:30] I don't remember saying that. I mean, I know that that would be a bad thing, but like I don’t remember saying it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:34] I just think it's a funny comment. Because actually you could have said pretty much anybody but he is aged decent, I mean, he's doing all right. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:19:40] Yeah, he's turned out to be one of the best actors of our Generation so it worked out. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:19:43] Yeah. So, when you were in the locker room, you had the Halloween theme song playing on repeat which aside from being hella creepy, I assume it’s a way to get into some sort of alter ego or emotional state.

Kobe Bryant: [00:19:54] That goes back to what we're talking about before getting into character. How do you kind of get your mind frame wrapped around to a place where nothing else matters? You got to find those songs that can channel that for you. Music for me wasn't just like what's popular now, but it's like music that can take you to an emotional space. Smells Like Teen Spirit was one of my favorite ones to listen to because it would take me back to high school. Like if I'm playing the game, heavy pressure game, game seven of a playoff series. I listen to Smells Like Teen Spirit. Why? Because he took me back to high school where basketball was just fun and you were playing with friends and there was all this hype and the media wasn't around you just in a gym with like 200 people in the stands in high school watching you play. That song would take me back to that place and then emotionally that's where I would be when I would perform. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:20:42] Do you still rock songs when you got to do something really important or is it now on autopilot?

Kobe Bryant: [00:20:47] Yeah, sometimes, yeah, I listen to Jay-Z a lot. I listen to Jay-Z a lot, you know new stuff as well as the Reasonable Doubt album. I listen to the Roots. I listen to quite a bit when I have a chance to. Right now, it's like so many things that we're turning. I'm a big lover of music 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:02] I was wondering, I was like, wouldn't it be funny if he's got like Taylor Swift i his car 

Kobe Bryant: [00:21:06] I do.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:07] Really

Kobe Bryant: [00:21:07] I do. I think it's important to listen to people who do great things. So, it's not just genre specific, but it's like Taylor's been at the top of the game for a very, very long time. How and why? How did she write? How did she get into that mental space to be able to create things over and over and over? I mean, it's a lot of pressure for her to follow up a number one album with a better album. I don't care if you like her music or if you don't like her music. Look at what she's doing. That's frightening. It's unbelievable to be able to pull that off over and over and over and over and so I'll look at things like that to try to learn from them as much as I can. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:21:41] She’s a shark too. You hear about her standing up to Spotify or all these -- Metallica did that in the early when you and I were probably in like I don't know college high school. That's tough. You didn't think she would be like no I'm not going to do, I'm going to do it my way.

Kobe Bryant: [00:21:54] From afar like I know she has to be that way. She's a sweet kid. I mean she was a sweetheart to my girls before she even blew up and became Taylor Swift, so that's why I like her. If she needs anything for me, I'm always there but you can't have that level of consistent success and not be a killer. It's impossible. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:14] It's funny to think of Taylor Swift as a killer.

Kobe Bryant: [00:22:14] Absolutely is.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:16] But in fact she totally is

Kobe Bryant: [00:22:27] 100 percent 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:18] The Mike Myers mask from the Halloween Theme Song devoid of emotion. Is that a coincidence or is that something you -- ?

Kobe Bryant: [00:22:23] No, it's 100 percent intentional. That's the trick of the game and is like can you again detach yourself from. Can you remove your emotions from the situation emotions getting away a lot, especially in competitive situation?

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:36] You find that in business then too?

Kobe Bryant: [00:22:38] Yeah business too. Like you can get emotional start making decisions, you've got to kind of sit back, and look at it for what it is, and is it the right decision to make.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:45] Yeah, everybody who lost money on Bitcoin knows what that’s like.

Kobe Bryant: [00:22:48] Motions. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:22:51] Yep, you're clearly dedicated to mastery and everything that you do, and I think most people again just like people who say they're obsessed with detail, they only pay lip service to that. They say like I'm obsessed with mastery, but I was looking up Kobe Bryant work ethic stories. It's like a Google search though. Apparently. I'm not the only one who made it and there are some trainers that are anonymous online being like, yeah. He texted me at 4:45 in the morning, wanted to go work out. I worked out with them, went back to my hotel room, went to sleep, came back in the morning. He was doing some shooting and I said, oh what time did you finish and you were like just now and the guy was like did you show up seven hours early for a scrimmage and the Internet has a million of those.

Kobe Bryant: [00:23:31] Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:23:31] I'm wondering if you instill that same level of work ethic and your kids were if you're like, okay, maybe that was a little bit much. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:23:38] Yeah, I do but you do it by repetition. By just simply the act of working every day like you can't talk your children into working hard. And that's the one thing that drives me crazy is like you have parents come up to me on the street or when I'm at the sports academy and said, “Okay, how can I get my kid to work hard? What do I need to tell? Can you talk to my kid?” I said, “Listen, it's not something that you can talk through. It's a behavioral thing you have to get up every day and do the work. Consistently do the work. My kids’ volleyball, basketball, school work, they work every day and that's how you instill it in them where it becomes a behavioral thing and it doesn't matter what they decide to do.” Like if Gianna decides to not play basketball when she grows up, it's fine, but she understands the discipline that it takes to work as something every single day. So, whether she wants to be a writer, a director, a doctor, lawyer, she'll have those characteristics. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:24:34] Yeah, if you could talk your kids into working hard. I feel like every parent would be working hard.

Kobe Bryant: [00:24:38] Everybody will work hard. It’s a behavior. Also, it’s like it’s observing, it’s seeing you and it's not just me, it's my wife to like her commitment to the children and making sure that they’re on point, schedule, school work. Everything is sharp, everything is there every single day man and seeing me get up and train and work hard. I used to take him with me sometimes too. I should take them to the gym when I would train and they would do things on the side where I go to the track together, and I'll be running around the track and doing this sort of stuff. This way, they can see it. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:06] Yeah. Did they ever come in here and watch you guys work?

Kobe Bryant: [00:25:08] Oh, yeah. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:09] I think the example has to be where it's at. A lot of parents are, "Do as I say, not as I do" and we know how that works out. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:25:15] Yeah that works from time to time. And specially you're driving in the car and you're like, okay just do as I say, not as I do. With work habits, they got to be able to see that stuff, man.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:25] Do you take singular focus with everything you do? I was talking to some of the players that use to play with and they were like we would invite him to Vegas, didn't want to go; we invited him to play golf, didn't want to go; and they're like, it's not that he was antisocial at all, it just wasn't getting him closer to the goal of being the best at basketball ever. And so, I'm wondering if it's business the same. Is it like you have to say no a lot deliberately?

Kobe Bryant: [00:25:46] Well, it's different because I just don't have the time. Vanessa and I, we don't have a nanny.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:25:52] You don't have a nanny at all. Wow.

Kobe Bryant: [00:25:54] Never have so other couples that go out and invite us to do things. We love to but we have our kids know so we can't leave them. Then it's the work stuff. Balancing work and family is hard, and I'm really committed to work and I don't compromise time with my family. So, the time that I'm not working, I'm spending it with them. You kind of lose out on some of the social things from time to time, but it’s what it is.

Jason DeFillippo: [00:26:24] You're listening to The Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back after this.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:26:27] This episode is sponsored in part by Eight Sleep. I love this thing called the Pod. This is the mattress of the future. This is awesome for super-hot summer nights. This Summer is hot AF from Silicon Valley to Brooklyn. If you are sleeping in America, you are hot at night, generally, unless you crank in the AC. It is really tough to sleep during a heat wave. You're stuck to the bed. You're stuck to the mattress. You're peeling the sheets off. There's actually a bed that keeps you cool through the whole night. No matter how hot it is outside. And this is the Pod by Eight Sleep. It's got responsive surface technology. What's great about this though is it doesn't have a bunch of wires underneath it and I find things like heating blankets and all that uncomfortable because they've got those hardwires. There's like a piece of plastic at the foot of the bed. I'm not feeling safe with it. The Pod uses liquid. It's like the Tesla of beds and Jen since we had the kid since we had Jayden. She's got one side of the bed warm for Jayden, the other side cool for her, and I sleep downstairs because I -- 

Jason DeFillippo: [00:27:29] You must be on the couch.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:27:30] I have all the freaking couch, which normally people would be like, “Oh, that's terrible.” Let me tell you, not waking up every hour and a half, I'm fine with it. I am fine with it. But the Pod has been amazing for sleep. I tend to get a nap in there during the day and you just don't have to suffer through those sweaty hot ass nights. So, to try the Pod for a hundred nights. If you don't love it, Eight Sleep is going to refund your purchase and arrange a free pick up. EightSleep.com/Jordan. E-I-G-H-T EightSleep.com/jordan for 150 bucks off.

[00:28:01] This episode is also sponsored by Highline Wellness. Highline Wellness is an NYC-based CBD brand. They're on a mission to make everybody a little bit more chill. So, CBD if you're not familiar is non-psychoactive. It's in hemp, it’s in cannabis. What this is for is for relaxation essentially. Life's full of anxieties, CBD Chews can calm your nerves, can chill you out a little bit. If you're stuck in the middle seat on an airplane, you're going to a big-ass meeting, you got a little bit of the Sunday scaries, you're not looking forward to the Monday, CBD Chews their tasty, essentially, you're looking at something like gummy bears. And their small batch, you get 10 milligrams of all-natural CBDs. So, you're not getting some sort of weird chemical extracted garbage. They have regular and vegan options and there are a lot of CBD brands. It's very trendy right now but Highline has hundreds of five-star reviews, the use broad spectrum CBD. So there's no THC in there. This is third-party tested to confirm your economic fail of freaking drug test at your employer. It doesn't get you high. It's non-psychoactive. It's legal to consume and travel with domestically as well. And you can order their stuff at highlinewellness.com. Jason, tell them what deal we have for them.

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:29:32] This episode is also sponsored by Dwight and Church. You all know that I love my cats, Momo and Mickey. Momo is the one that bogarts all the time in photos and it's like the New York Times. He's the star of that one. What I don't love is when they knock stuff off of high surfaces just to see if they'll break because spoiler alert, they do break, but I also don't love cleaning up their litter box and we use over at the house Arm & Hammer Cloud Control litter and the reason that I'm doing a freaking spot for a kitty litter here is you know, we just had the baby and I don't want people breathing in my especially. my newborn son that cloud of nasties that comes out of most cat litter when you scoop. So, this stuff, this Cloud Control litter, is a hundred percent dust-free, no heavy perfume. It reduces airborne dander from scooping so all those nasty allergens and stuff all that stuff that happens in the litter box, stays in the litter box. And that's called Arm & Hammer Cloud Control cat litter and that's Arm & Hammer Cloud Control cat litter, and this is the stuff that we're using here, and thanks to them for sponsoring the show.

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Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:05] When you went to the NBA, I've heard you say look at a lot of guys. They're not working that hard. That's kind of a legendary thing for you to say about other players and they didn't have the same passion and I heard Shaq actually say even at 18, you wanted to be the best you found that passion early and you've said like if you're lucky you find that passion early but players often times, they lose that passion. They’re playing for economic stability. They show up and they're like, “Oh for the first time in my life, I can go to Vegas and ball out and be popular and famous and I'm going to enjoy that.” How do you stay hungry? Because you might have had that situation too, you could just as easily have gone down that road, but didn’t.

Kobe Bryant: [00:31:40] I didn't enjoy it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:42] You didn't enjoy?

Kobe Bryant: [00:31:43] No, I enjoyed playing basketball.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:31:45] Okay. Yeah.

Kobe Bryant: [00:31:45] When I say that people tend to have a tendency to take that lightly. Yeah, but now I love the game. I love it. I didn't want to be away from me. I wanted to play. all the time. Like a lot of guys have fun, hanging out in the pool in Vegas, and that's fine. There’s a time and place for that. But I was 18, 21 years old. I wanted to play basketball. I was consumed with this quest of trying to be the best. We weren't there yet. There's so many things I have to figure out like am I training properly, am I working on the right things on the court. There's so many things to do. I didn't have time to go in hang out over here. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:32:22] What do you do practice wise? Like do you have a ritual or practice that keeps you getting after it or is this just something that's been natural with you for a while because yeah, you love basketball, but do you love creating magic books in the same way? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:32:34] Yeah, it's the same process, the same attention to detail and the thing about storytelling is crazy. Right now I put a stop on myself coming up with a new IP because we have a lot right now that we need to get out into the market. We got to focus on doing that right because what happens is I'll create a new character. And I'll say okay this is how the character is, then I'll say well why is it character that way, what's his family. Okay, then where the father comes from and where the mother comes from, and then where do they live now, where are the rules of the world that they live in. And it just takes you down this rabbit hole where you just become all-consuming, it becomes all-consuming. I love that part though. So, I'm kind of looking forward to diving back in but that's my process. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:13] It’s like some sort of The Lord of the Rings stuff right there.

Kobe Bryant: [00:33:15] That's exactly right and even with this book here is that there's so many notes and so many books filled with like Nova like creating the name itself and like Legacy, Silla and then like the rules of the world and the history of the kingdom of Nova when it once was a kingdom like all these sort of things that I have that the readers will never know, but it was important for me and Annie to go through.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:37] Do you read Lord of the Rings and books?

Kobe Bryant: [00:33:40] No, don't. I've studied them though, which is weird. So, like I’ll read about someone who studied the Lord of the Rings or watch video essays about it and then watch speeches and then same thing with Game of Thrones. Those are things I've read though.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:33:57] You read Game of Thrones.

Kobe Bryant: [00:33:59] I have and then sit down with George. I had a chance to sit down with him and just pick his brain about stuff. I learned from all of these things. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:06] George seems like a guy who might have no idea who you are until he -- 

Kobe Bryant: [00:34:09] He loves sports.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:10] Does he?

Kobe Bryant: [00:34:11] Huge sports fan.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:11] Did not realize.

Kobe Bryant: [00:34:12] Huge.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:13] That's kind of surprising. He seems like the kind of guy who like hangs out at the library 

Kobe Bryant: [00:34:16] The exact opposites. He's a huge sports fan and huge history buff obviously.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:34:21] Yeah, that makes sense. A lot of players have different levels of physical ability that goes without saying but even people that you say are legends in the game. They have different levels of physical ability. So, if we take physical ability out of the equation, what do you think it is that allows somebody to be great at anything, doesn't have to just be basketball?

Kobe Bryant: [00:34:37] I think, it’s how you negotiate with yourself. That's the biggest thing we talked about the mental side of it, but then like what that really means. The thoughts that happen in your mind when you're going through a competitive situation or you're facing a tight deadline. You still don't have the idea yet. What happens inside up here? Do you talk yourself out of it? Do you say okay it won't be a big deal about it? Or I don't have to get up on a Tuesday morning and go in and hit the track. What does this day really mean in the long scheme of things anyway, just one day? When you have those conversations with yourself, are you able to negotiate your way out of that little voice telling you it's not that important or does that little voice get the best of you. I think that's what separates people going to do great things versus people who don't or people that do great things but in an inconsistent way. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:25] Do you call that out like your kids when they're lying in bed and you're like, I know what you're thinking you're thinking 15 more minutes.

Kobe Bryant: [00:35:31] No. I let them sleep. That's the biggest thing as a parent is when they're late, you let him be late and you let them learn from that. Let them figure that out versus me telling them.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:35:45] So you let him go to the consequences and go, oh I hate rushing, and you're like, how could we have avoided this? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:35:51] Yeah, my basketball team. For example, I have the girls run lines and we could just as easily say -- I had a parent who's encouraging his daughter if you run a 17s, he's encouraged her. Come on, you can do it, you can do it, dig deep, dig deep. And then after practice, I go to him and say, you know when she's doing those line drills don't say anything because there's a conversation that's happening inside of her head. She's like talking to herself trying to pump yourself up to do what she's already having those conversations. So, for outside voice to come in to give her guidance and they give her the push to keep going actually interrupts her process. Just let her be, let her figure it out herself because as they go through life as parents, we're not going to be here all the time. You know, I mean, so kids have to be able to navigate those things themselves. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:36:36] You've got to make hundreds of small decisions in the court same in business I assume. You’re a high profile though, you can't afford a misstep. How do you know who to listen to and who to trust? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:36:47] Well, I mean, that's the thing is that we don't want missteps, but they'll happen. It's fine high-profile or not. Sorry, I've had them before. I'm sure we'll have them again. It's fine. What I try to do is hire really good people and hire them and not do their job for them.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:01] Not do their job for them.

Kobe Bryant: [00:37:03] Hire them for a reason.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:04] Do you have like a panel of people that you rely on for advice that you trust?

Kobe Bryant: [00:37:08] When it comes to really big company strategy things 10-year, 15-year type of things. Yeah. I do. I'll talk to Mark Parker which I did, Jony Ive, Tim Cook, Oprah Winfrey, Shonda Rhimes and these are people that are lean on.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:22] It must be nice to have a roster of people that you know have -- 

Kobe Bryant: [00:37:25] It’s a pretty good roster.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:37:27] Right? Like they haven't screwed up their lives yet. They’re doing pretty well. You can be like one of them. What should I do? If you fallen for this before because I feel like I'm getting played. 

Kobe Bryant: [00:37:35] We all make the same mistakes. We're all building things. Oprah told me specifically that she's made a lot of the same mistakes that I've made with your first started her studio. It gives you kind of let you know that you're on the right path. While Disney built Disney and everything was perfect and every made every right decision and then you’re unpacking like, oh, wait, he signed some really bad contracts. I mean, he was financially really, really struggling and it's okay.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:01] It's hard to remember that though I would imagine in the moment, right? Do you really never beat yourself up over a bad decision because I'm just like wow, that's like a unicorn mindset.

Kobe Bryant: [00:38:10] No, I’m just there nothing I can do about it. There's literally nothing I can do other than look at why I made a decision I made, what factors kind of fooled me into making the wrong decision, you try to process that for the next time kind of read the tea leaves on another decisions sort of thing. Other than that, that's it. You got to go, we got to move forward. All right, cool. That's done. Let's go.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:38:29] if you're using let's say Shag is competitive fuel on the court. Who are you using for competitive fuel in your business now?

Kobe Bryant: [00:38:35] I never used others for competitive fuel. I would only do that for that extra like two percent at the end the other 98 percent came from within, just came from the love of playing and the love of figuring things out, and so that's what I do here like it's the love of creating something. And I'm really excited because I feel like we're creating something new. The world does not have stories like this. We do not have sports fantasy stories. We don't have those and so I become very excited about getting those out into the market 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:06] A lot of athletes they get into trouble especially when they get injured or they retire and sometimes one forces the other one. How do you not let demons of uncertainty get inside your head? Like when you tore your Achilles, are you not thinking like, “Oh, how am I going to come back from this?”

Kobe Bryant: [00:39:20] Oh God. Yeah. Yeah thinking damn I'm done and I don't know if I can come back from this or my career could be over, then what am I going to do with the rest of my life. I had those but I think what I've learned at an early age as you accept them versus fight them if you're nervous or scared about situations instead of being like nah, there's nothing to be scared about not be scared about -- oh, shit there is and that's fine. That's okay, like you own it you give it a hug, embrace it, and now what you are going to do about it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:39:45] It seems like studying everything in detail breaking everything down into little pieces would help in business, but I'm wondering like now you've spent the bigger part of your life honing physical skills, mental skills, you've got kids now, do you ever think about mortality especially having leaned on your body for the first career? Now you're looking at your kids. I don't know about you, nothing makes me feel old or like okay, I got kids now I got to be careful, and I'm more fragile than I remember.

Kobe Bryant: [00:40:12] It's a weird mix. I'll tell you like when Bianca was born and when Capri was born, it was an odd mix of like pure enjoyment and happiness and fulfillment, but at the same time it was a little sadness because I knew that my two older girls we're going to age. Of course, you know, they're going to age but like when you have like Bianca now is two and Coco is two months. It's going to be amazing when they're six and four and four and two, and I’ll be like, oh, wait a minute, for her to be 6 that means Natalia is going to be 20, Gianna is going to be 17, and I’m like ah.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:40:52] When you think about well, where does that leave me like? 

Kobe Bryant: [00:40:54] Well, I'm more worried about like they’re my kids like Natalia is almost out of the house. She’ll be 17 in January and it just puts things in perspective like damn. Time has no mercy. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:09] It's the one thing that no matter how hard you work. You can't control.

Kobe Bryant: [00:41:12] I wish I just had like a TiVo button like I can just pause it for a second. 

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:16] Well, I wish you many more years of success man. This has been a lot of fun.

Kobe Bryant: [00:41:19] I appreciate it.

Jordan Harbinger: [00:41:20] Thank you so much.

[00:41:24] Great big thank you to Kobe Bryant. The book is called Legacy and the Queen Kobe's always got something in the works though. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it's even more stuff coming from Kobe Bryant. Really fun to have him on the show here today. We’ll link to the book in the show notes. There's also a video of these interview clips in any case on our YouTube channel at jordanharbinger.com.

[00:41:45] We actually hung out a bit more post-show and chatted a bit more off the mic him and Shaq in the whole Lakers Squad. Tell me the story about how him and Shaq, they mooned a bunch of fans that were mooning them. This is like back in the day of course. The whole bus just mooned a bunch of people from the bus. I mean, it's funny to think about they were just kids back then they were in their early 20s. I mean Kobe was like 18, I think her 17 when he got drafted. In fact, his parents had to sign his first contract.

[00:42:15] We also discussed him not being the same person on the court and off the court. He's got this Alter Ego that he slips into the Black Mamba when he's on the court. When he's off the court, he's a very, very different more sociable guy according to his own words. I thought that was pretty interesting. He actually said something about being patient and then in the same sentence, he said something like well, but I'm relentless though. So, I asked him how can you be patient while the team has a Down Season or a down year you're down in your business, but the same time be relentlessly going after a certain outcome or result and he brought about this concept of strategic patience. So, he's patient when it comes to all right, I've got to do a bunch of drills. I've got to work on a discrete skill set. I've got to work on my shots. I got to work on my footwork. I've got to break down this business idea into little pieces and think about it. That's the strategic patience. He's not patient with let's say underperforming teammates or being okay with a mediocre result and he called this strategic patience. So he's patient when necessary in order to get a better result, but he's not patient in that he's forgiving of people who have shortcomings or even of his own shortcomings and I thought that was really an interesting topic and I wish we got that on tape, but alas not everything when you're talking to somebody of this nature of this stature is within your control. I mean we go to them. I don't know if you all knew that we usually go on location to film interviews and often it's like okay you get this and yes, they're running late and also, there’s a people yelling in the hall. I mean there's a lot of things that are outside of your control. It was very apropos this interview with Kobe because right when we first started, before we even started rolling, there was something going on and I was just like yeah, there's nothing I can do about that and he's like, you know, that's an interesting point, some stuff just outside your control. So, you have to relentlessly control that which you can control. In other words, you got to do a damn good job in the interview because yeah, you might start 20 minutes late. Yeah, there might be noise out there. You might run into technical issue stuff. You can't necessarily control. So, you have to make up for it by having impeccable skill, impeccable strategic patience, a better plan. This is just all around an interesting experience to be around somebody who operates at that level and I'm really thankful for having this time here with Kobe.

[00:44:25] So thanks to everybody that helped us get through that set that up. I also asked him how he plays through back pain, lack of sleep, the flu things like that and it wasn't just about pain tolerance. I said what sort of mindset are you having to push all of this aside and he gave a really interesting example of. Let's say tearing your hamstring. Now you go home and there's a fire in your house. What do you do then? Do you go? Oh, well, I got ice my hamstring. No, you forget about your bad leg. You've dragged upstairs get your wife. Get your kids and you deal with it later. The pressure, he said makes you forget about the pain. In other words, the pull of what you have to do in that moment is greater than the pain you're in at that moment and that has to be the case. That seemed to me like something that he really values is a high performer. So, if you're sick, yeah, you feel sick. There's no getting around it and you can't control your body. But what you can do is push it aside for the couple of hours that you have to be on your game. You pay for it later, of course, so it's not a habit. You want to get into everything in life, but it is something that allows you to step into a different persona and perform at the very, very top and that I thought was also a worthwhile lesson. So, I again learned so many great lessons here from Kobe. It's really, really fun interview. Thanks again to everybody who helped us set that up.

[00:45:44] We're teaching you how to connect with great people like Kobe Bryant manage relationships using systems and tiny habits over at our Six-Minute Networking course, which is free that's over at jordanharbinger.com/course and don't kick that can down the road don't procrastinate don't say you'll do it later. You can't make up for lost time when it comes to relationships and networking. The number one mistake. I see people make. They postpone this. They don't dig the well before they get thirsty. And then something happens they go, oh man. I really need these connections. Well, it's too late. Dig that well before you get thirsty the drills take a few minutes per day, Six-Minute Networking. Hence the name. I wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago. It's not flopped. It is crucial. You can find it all again for free at jordanharbinger.com/course, and by the way, most of the guests on the show actually subscribed to the course and the newsletter. So come join us and you'll be in some smart company. Speaking of building relationships. You can always reach out and or follow me on social. I'm at JordanHarbinger on both Twitter and Instagram.

[00:46:49] The show is created in association with PodcastOne. This episode was produced by Jen Harbinger, Jason DeFillippo and edited by Jase Sanderson, show notes and worksheets are by Robert Fogarty, music by Evan Viola, and I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own. And yes, I am a lawyer but I am not your lawyer so do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. And remember we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting which should be in every episode. So, please share the show with those you love and even those you don't. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen, and we'll see you next time.

[00:47:20]